View Full Version : Best Drop in Rails... Troy? or MI?
I currently have a Troy 7in Carbine Drop in rail with 4 screws that secure the bottom to the top portion of the quad rail.
I really like the looks of the MI Gen 2 Drop in's..
My question, anyone have experience w/ the MI rails? My Troy is rock solid and does not budge.. and most of my add ons are Troy
The only thing that stands out to me about the MI is the Monolithic look of the top rail section.. is that merely cosmetic?
If I'm all over the place.. sorry.. not sure exactly how to word it..
Thanks in advance.
The Centurion Arms C4 is the best in that category, albeit not quite "drop in". The Carbine Cut Out rail is the way to go if you have a carbine gas system.
I just put the MI mctar-17g2 on my new colt 6720 and they are awesome so far. Interesting set up in that there are no screws holding it together, just the delta ring like normal hand guards. I was worried about this, but it is rock solid so far. One thing I will say is they are super light. my rifle was actually a few ounces lighter with it then with the normal hand guards. installation is the same as normal hand guards, literally just drop them in and you're good to go. I have only had it for about a month and haven't done any classes or anything with it so I can't speak to its long term durability, but for the price, the MI rails are great.
Oh and to answer the question, as far as I can tell, the monolithic look is completely cosmetic. There are no rails on that part, just flat metal and it doesn't connect in any way.
Ive had two carbine length MI drop-ins. One on my 6920 and another on a RRA. I thought they were both solid. I changed out the 6920 to the Troy Charlie rail just cause I wanted the longer rail but I was very happy with the MI.
The Centurion Arms C4 is the best in that category, albeit not quite "drop in". The Carbine Cut Out rail is the way to go if you have a carbine gas system.
This. The centurion is really nice.
I just put the MI mctar-17g2 on my new colt 6720 and they are awesome so far. Interesting set up in that there are no screws holding it together, just the delta ring like normal hand guards. I was worried about this, but it is rock solid so far. One thing I will say is they are super light. my rifle was actually a few ounces lighter with it then with the normal hand guards. installation is the same as normal hand guards, literally just drop them in and you're good to go. I have only had it for about a month and haven't done any classes or anything with it so I can't speak to its long term durability, but for the price, the MI rails are great.
Oh and to answer the question, as far as I can tell, the monolithic look is completely cosmetic. There are no rails on that part, just flat metal and it doesn't connect in any way.
I had the exact opposite experience with that rail.
If you don't want a carbine fsp cut out rail, like Iraqgunz mentioned, my choices would revolve around the KAC RAS and Daniel Defense Omega.
I've not been impressed with the Troy rails I've handled; I feel other companies offer same/similar products at more competitive prices as well as being lighter.
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I agree with jwperry on the Daniel Defense Omega rail. The Omega has the same ease of installation as a drop-in rail but will free float the barrel. It can be installed without removing the delta ring or hand guard cap, and requires only an Allen wrench, screw driver, and some locktite. Just be sure you get the Omega and not the Omega X
Nightvisionary
03-21-14, 04:03
As a freedom loving veteran and supporter of the U.S. Constitution; why anyone would purchase a Troy product after the events that came to light last year is beyond my understanding. :angry:
I had the exact opposite experience with that rail.
What was your experience with it? Like I said, I just put it on a brand new rifle and haven't had the chance to wring it out much. My delta ring is still insanely tight since it's brand new so that could be why mine is so solid right now.
Not a huge fan of drop-in rails.. But, Daniel Defense Omega if you can afford it. Never had any experience with any Troy rails. After a few bad experiences with Troy products I think I'll be using them exclusively for their BUIS. I have a MI mctar-19g2 on my dissy and honestly can't feel any weight difference between it and the MOE I had on it (I believe the mctar is like .77 ounces heavier). The MI has been very solid and I picked it up on sale new for right at a bill.
You can't beat that with a baseball bat.
Not a huge fan of drop-in rails.. But, Daniel Defense Omega if you can afford it. Never had any experience with any Troy rails. After a few bad experiences with Troy products I think I'll be using them exclusively for their BUIS. I have a MI mctar-19g2 on my dissy and honestly can't feel any weight difference between it and the MOE I had on it (I believe the mctar is like .77 ounces heavier). The MI has been very solid and I picked it up on sale new for right at a bill.
You can't beat that with a baseball bat.
Agree on the drop in rail.....I'm relatively new to working on an AR and was nervous and seriously considered the DD rail, after watching a few videos I felt confident enough to put in a free float and cut the delta ring off and was surprised how easy it was, definitely worth it. But, if you're set on drop in the DD is nice but pricey, not really a fan of Troy products.
OP, welcome to M4C, where you get an opinion on every brand except the two you're actually asking about. ;)
Between the two, I've only used the MI and I'm thoroughly happy with mine.
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Centurion.
Everyone keeps mentioning Centurion, but do they make a true drop-in rail? The C4 is easy enough to install since it uses a standard barrel nut, but it's still a free-float and would require disassembly or cutting. I believe the OP wants a true drop-in.
..honestly, I know I may catch a lot of flak for this one, but I built a carbine for a cheap friend of mine that wanted to pay absolute bottom dollar and HAD to have a quad. I purchased a drop in with extended top rail from a company called Guntec USA and it's been solid since day one. I think it cost him like $38 and, is of course imported, but I was very impressed with the quality for the price and he's a throw your rifle in the back of your pickup kinda guy that in no way babies his guns. Going on a year now and it hasn't fallen off or loosened up. Maybe the OP should go that route until he saves some dough for a good US made free float.
If he's at all serious about AR gunning, he'll end up replacing the MI or Troy with a good rail at some point. Why not skip ahead and save a buck or two?
I've replaced an MI drop in, and My Troy is the next one to go.... The frickin extrusion isn't even straight, and it weighs too much.
If he's at all serious about AR gunning, he'll end up replacing the MI or Troy with a good rail at some point. Why not skip ahead and save a buck or two?
I've replaced an MI drop in, and My Troy is the next one to go.... The frickin extrusion isn't even straight, and it weighs too much.
I'm not saying I disagree with that. He just gave two brands he's deciding on and wanted opinions on those two. Not sure his reasons for only asking about those brands. Cost? Who knows?
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If he's at all serious about AR gunning, he'll end up replacing the MI or Troy with a good rail at some point. Why not skip ahead and save a buck or two?
I've replaced an MI drop in, and My Troy is the next one to go.... The frickin extrusion isn't even straight, and it weighs too much.
I think you're being a little unfair to MI. It seems to me like their products are improving steadily and I don't think they deserve the stigma they earned so many years back. I run two MI rails and they've both been perfect - one the aforementioned mctar and the other a ssk, which is actually pretty awesome. Note, however, that both are somewhat recently released handguards.
I think you're being a little unfair to MI. It seems to me like their products are improving steadily and I don't think they deserve the stigma they earned so many years back. I run two MI rails and they've both been perfect - one the aforementioned mctar and the other a ssk, which is actually pretty awesome.
Maybe. If someone gave them the specs on 1913 pic, they might be alright. ;)
They are doing some keymod too, so at least they're willing to evolve.
Singlestack Wonder
03-21-14, 09:07
For easy drop in installation, Daniel Defense Omega series rails are the way to go.
As far as Centurian goes, after trying one, I will avoid them in the future. Whether it clamps securely on the barrel nut is hit or miss and it will rotate without applying a lot of pressure. Sure, the anti rotate tabs stop it after a few degrees of travel in each direction, but who wants a loose rail. This was tried with several barrel nuts.
Did you send this rail back? First I've heard of a Centurian issue.
Did you send this rail back? First I've heard of a Centurian issue.
Me too... I run my C4 12" pretty hard and never noticed anything like that... The C4 has a sterling reputation... Definitely send that sucker in or something...
I think MI has stepped up their game as of recently. Everything I've got lately was pretty good.
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As a freedom loving veteran and supporter of the U.S. Constitution; why anyone would purchase a Troy product after the events that came to light last year is beyond my understanding. :angry:
What came to light last year ?
What came to light last year ?
Could it be this?
http://thepatriotperspective.wordpress.com/2013/08/23/troy-industries-and-hiring-jbts/
I bought a DD Omega rail a couple months back now for my Middy. 9 inch rails give me plenty of rail and reach so I didn't see need to go longer, and the Omega was on sale at Rainier Arms at the time which tipped my hand and got my cash. I think they may still be doing a sale on the DD Omegas as well. That said, do I think DD is "The Best" I can't say, haven't really gotten a lot of hands on time with others listed with the exception of the RAS. But so far I am liking the Omega for my uses.
Arkansas Bob
03-21-14, 10:40
For easy drop in installation, Daniel Defense Omega series rails are the way to go.
As far as Centurian goes, after trying one, I will avoid them in the future. Whether it clamps securely on the barrel nut is hit or miss and it will rotate without applying a lot of pressure. Sure, the anti rotate tabs stop it after a few degrees of travel in each direction, but who wants a loose rail. This was tried with several barrel nuts.
Was the barrel nut torqued properly? If the barrel nut is not tight it will move until it contacts the gas tube.
Could it be this?
http://thepatriotperspective.wordpress.com/2013/08/23/troy-industries-and-hiring-jbts/
Thank you I haven't seen that.
Thank you I haven't seen that.
Troy is retarded anyway. I got my rail used on some bundle or trade or somthing... their foolish alliances with shady characters has nothing to do with why I wouldn't buy anything from those jokers.
justin_247
03-21-14, 13:15
The DD Omega and KAC RAS are probably the best purely "drop-in" rails you can buy. I have used both and they're very high quality. You can buy KAC RAS rails for like $120 on the EE at various sites, and they come with a rail panel kit and a VFG. Not bad!
Centurion rails are also outstanding, but it does require you to cut away the handguard cap and the delta ring/spring assembly to install it. It's not exactly difficult, from what I can tell, and Centurion has a sterling reputation.
Yes, MI and Troy rails have improved tremendously over the past few years, but they are still not as high quality as something from DD, KAC, or Centurion.
steve462x0
03-21-14, 13:54
I love the MI rifle length drop in I have on mine
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p313/madcatjoe/IMG_20140311_103737_866_zpsm4uquk5g.jpg
Troy DeltaRail. Best drop in rail, period. It installs in under 5 minutes, and requires NO modifications at all. Seriously, there is nothing better.
If you really like quad rails, they also have the CharlieRail which is the same, but rails on all sides. I prefer the light weight and simplicity of the Delta.
You can buy KAC RAS rails for like $120 on the EE at various sites.
This is really your best bet for a drop in.
I had the MI Gen II Drop-In rail on a LE6920 I recently sold. I've tried the Troy and liked the MI a lot better. Its a true two piece design with no screws and rock solid lockup.
The Centurion Arms C4 is the best in that category, albeit not quite "drop in". The Carbine Cut Out rail is the way to go if you have a carbine gas system.
Glad to hear this. I'm considering the C4 Carbine Cut Out for my Colt.
Nightvisionary
03-22-14, 00:34
What came to light last year ? This
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/08/daniel-zimmerman/what-the-hells-the-problem-with-troy-industries/
http://www.thebangswitch.com/the-hiring-follies-of-troy-industries/
I'll echo the Centurion C4 recommendations.
Centurion, hands down. If you have trouble with it, Singlestack Wonder, which I haven't with the rail, I had trouble with another part, contact them. Monty will make it right. But also, make sure it's not your barrel nut that's loose.
Troy, on the other hand, I had issues with the rail. First, they sent me the wrong one. As I was putting it on, the screws stripped before I even snugged them down. Then I contacted them, they were out of stock, but would set up an exchange as soon as they had them in. Nothing, nothing, emailed them again, no response, emailed again, no response.
Singlestack Wonder
03-22-14, 09:30
Was the barrel nut torqued properly? If the barrel nut is not tight it will move until it contacts the gas tube.
Of course it was, as well as the other nuts I tried thinking that a nut was out of spec. Removed a few thousandths of an inch with stones from the lower clamp assembly and the rail locked up tight. This was an early rail.
Centurion, hands down. If you have trouble with it, Singlestack Wonder, which I haven't with the rail, I had trouble with another part, contact them. Monty will make it right. But also, make sure it's not your barrel nut that's loose.
Troy, on the other hand, I had issues with the rail. First, they sent me the wrong one. As I was putting it on, the screws stripped before I even snugged them down. Then I contacted them, they were out of stock, but would set up an exchange as soon as they had them in. Nothing, nothing, emailed them again, no response, emailed again, no response.
I keep hearing reports of experiences of this, but I recently got a Troy single point sling mount used here on the forums, and when I discovered that it was damaged, Troy responded within an hour of me emailing them and replaced it, free of charge, with a brand new one.
So I say that Troy is good to go, to include their customer service.
jataylor11
03-22-14, 17:54
MI G2 rails are nice. Threw a drop-in on my middy. Very nice piece!!
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I'll give them another try, but it's still fair to say that Centurion has treated me better. I do know that everyone got really bogged down there, for a while, during that time.
theGOLDENchild
03-22-14, 18:22
I've been satisfied with my decision to go MI over Troy. It locks up tight. It's lightweight. I can easily add rails if desired. The QD mounts are a nice touch.
24584
24585
I'll give them another try, but it's still fair to say that Centurion has treated me better. I do know that everyone got really bogged down there, for a while, during that time.
Yeah, Troy had some issues during that time, as everyone did. Also, I think I remember a change in email addresses somewhere... so if you still need something, try again. and make sure its Troy Industries, Troy Defense is mainly rifles and training and such.
Obscenejesster
03-22-14, 19:52
Centurion C4 all the way. It's almost a drop in. Fit and finish is top notch.
Sent with a Gen 2 Nexus 7
My wife ordered a Centurion C4 Carbine Cut Out Rail this morning for me from Bravo Company.
NYH1.
This
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/08/daniel-zimmerman/what-the-hells-the-problem-with-troy-industries/
http://www.thebangswitch.com/the-hiring-follies-of-troy-industries/
It should be noted, all of these yellow journalism articles are flat out lying regarding the ruby ridge facts (it seemed like a big issue, and apparently im the only one that researched it). They are the equivalent of the naacp coverage of george zimmerman.
Big example, and to show the articles dont care about facts or truth. The sniper did not "murder" or "execute" vicky weaver. What the sniper did do is take a shot at the suspect that had murdered the federal agent. Vicky Weaver was behind the door holding it open for him as he ran into the cabin. They didnt see her, and the shot was not intended for her, but it ended up hitting her.
Im not saying the 'modified' rules of engagement were correct, that this wasnt a complete debacle, etc.....but when the blog authors intentionally lie to fabricate an emotional response (see Zimmerman), everybody come out looking bad
Also, if you want a front site cutout with more rail in front, for a midlength, troy has been the only option
Also, if you want a front site cutout with more rail in front, for a midlength, troy has been the only option
Yup, and like I said, the Delta rails rock. I'm sure the Charlie does as well.
It should be noted, all of these yellow journalism articles are flat out lying regarding the ruby ridge facts (it seemed like a big issue, and apparently im the only one that researched it). They are the equivalent of the naacp coverage of george zimmerman.
Big example, and to show the articles dont care about facts or truth. The sniper did not "murder" or "execute" vicky weaver. What the sniper did do is take a shot at the suspect that had murdered the federal agent. Vicky Weaver was behind the door holding it open for him as he ran into the cabin. They didnt see her, and the shot was not intended for her, but it ended up hitting her.
Im not saying the 'modified' rules of engagement were correct, that this wasnt a complete debacle, etc.....but when the blog authors intentionally lie to fabricate an emotional response (see Zimmerman), everybody come out looking bad
Truth. I'm as pro-gun and freedom as they come, but this faddish hatred against Troy is completely unwarranted and just plain wrong.
Troy makes a great product and supports our rights.
Let's keep the politics out of this. It's been discussed before.
Fuzzy-Reticle
03-23-14, 12:26
While not as popular any longer I really like the Vltor CASV-el. A true drop in rail that free floats the bbl. The design ensures no rotation. Yes you need to remove the front sling swivel but that's a one minute exercise. Couple of things to remember when using however. The area for a buis will not be large enough for a magpul mbus but every other site I tried works fine. The height of the rail will not cowitness with an Eotech. Aimpoints will with the proper height mount.
Nightvisionary
03-23-14, 14:38
It should be noted, all of these yellow journalism articles are flat out lying regarding the ruby ridge facts (it seemed like a big issue, and apparently im the only one that researched it). They are the equivalent of the naacp coverage of george zimmerman.
Big example, and to show the articles dont care about facts or truth. The sniper did not "murder" or "execute" vicky weaver. What the sniper did do is take a shot at the suspect that had murdered the federal agent. Vicky Weaver was behind the door holding it open for him as he ran into the cabin. They didnt see her, and the shot was not intended for her, but it ended up hitting her.
Im not saying the 'modified' rules of engagement were correct, that this wasnt a complete debacle, etc.....but when the blog authors intentionally lie to fabricate an emotional response (see Zimmerman), everybody come out looking bad
Other FBI tactical units realized the rules of engagement were unlawful and followed standard protocol. We know Horiuchi and his bunch never lie, right:rolleyes:. This same exact group was at the Branch Davidian compound and stated under oath they never fired their weapons. Texas Rangers collected 4 expended shell casings at Horiuchi's position. You go right ahead and keep drinking that kool-aid.
Nightvisionary
03-23-14, 14:50
Yup, and like I said, the Delta rails rock. I'm sure the Charlie does as well.
Truth. I'm as pro-gun and freedom as they come, but this faddish hatred against Troy is completely unwarranted and just plain wrong.
Troy makes a great product and supports our rights.
Then how do you explain away the hiring of vocal anti-gun politician/police superintendent Jody Weiss? Troy saw dollar signs with his connections and didn't care that he campaigned against the second Amendment. They only cared after they were caught because it affected their bottom line. Troy isn't Ford or Microsoft, the owner knew exactly what Weiss' background was when they hired him. If I could find it from a 10 second Google search they certainly knew after vetting his him. It's not like he was an unknown. I have come to learn that whenever someone prefaces a statement with "Im As Pro Gun as they come" they usually aren't, of course I don't look at it as "Pro Gun" and I question those who use that term. Instead I look at it as pro individual rights and pro Constitution. Troy rifles were not a "Great Product" as has been well documented on this site.
Then how do you explain away the hiring of vocal anti-gun politician/police superintendent Jody Weiss? Troy saw dollar signs with his connections and didn't care that he campaigned against the second Amendment. They only cared after they were caught because it affected their bottom line. Troy isn't Ford or Microsoft, the owner knew exactly what Weiss' background was when they hired him. If I could find it from a 10 second Google search they certainly knew after vetting his him. It's not like he was an unknown. You are definitely not "As Pro Gun" as they come, of course I don't look at it as "Pro Gun" and I question those who use that term. Instead I look at it as pro individual rights and pro Constitution. Troy rifles were not a "Great Product" as has been well documented on this site.
+1^1024
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That aside, I would go with MI. Their products have come a LONG way and they've constantly improved. Sure, they're not cutting edge but one of the few "lower" cost brands that makes decent products. The KAC RAS is also a solid product as are DD rails (although DD's are the most costly of these three). As far as Centurion goes, I think Monty makes top notch products. If you don't mind the extra step, you can't go wrong with Centurion.
I just picked up the MI / MCTAR-17G2 used..barely from ARF.com... and I have to tell you.. it's lighter than my Troy was.. It locks up very solid on my SW MP15. And the finish / color.. fits my rifle exactly..
Paid $75.00 shipped... and it looks like new..
Very happy with it..
Thanks everyone for their input.. it has been very helpful..
Being Ex military and a traditionalist.. I want to keep my Front sight post... so the MI is exactly what I was looking for..
Fuzzy.. I have the CASV-el... Loved it..wish I never sold it.. perhaps I try to find another one someday..
Moose-Knuckle
03-26-14, 17:11
As far as the Centurion rails not being "drop-in" what all is invovled with their installation? Dremel off the delta ring, snap ring, and weld spring?
buckkiller35
03-26-14, 17:53
I've used both and like them both.
Berserkr556
03-26-14, 19:19
And cut off the handguard ring. It's quite simple. I followed the Centurion installation instructions. Took my time and didn't scratch my finish anywhere. Some folks pop the FSB pins but I didn't.
As far as the Centurion rails not being "drop-in" what all is invovled with their installation? Dremel off the delta ring, snap ring, and weld spring?
aldotheapache
03-26-14, 23:44
The milspec KAC quad rail will take a ton of abuse and never give in. My PEQ-15 retained zero no matter how many times I bashed it.
As far as the Centurion rails not being "drop-in" what all is invovled with their installation? Dremel off the delta ring, snap ring, and weld spring?
I just put mine on a few hours ago. I used tin snips, a Dremel and a flat head screw driver to remove everything. Mine didn't come with any installation instructions. Maybe they just over looked it and forgot to put them in the box. The delta ring side of it came off pretty quick. The sheet metal piece by the front sight was a pain in the rear to remove, harder then I thought it would be. But everything went well. I'm definitely glad I went with the Centurion C4 Carbine Cutout Rail. The few extra inches are definitely noticeable and worth it to me.
NYH1.
Berserkr556
03-27-14, 21:53
The installation instructions for the C4 were on the Centurion site. They were a PDF file download. I saved the file so if anyone needs it I'll be glad to email it. The Centurion site is down right now.
Centurion's web site hasn't opened for me. It says their having problems with it. All the info on their C4 Rail I got pretty much on this site and some pic's on other sites while searching for pic's. Thanks for the offer though.
NYH1.
The rails generally do not ship with instructions. The download is on the site. I probably have one of the versions with pics if someone needs it.
After installing the MI Gen 2... I honestly prefer the Troy..as it has the lock up screws..
The MI with my vertical grip... I can feel the bottom piece move back..when I get a good solid grip on the grip..
I may end up looking for another CASV-el... and just stop flipping parts..
Fuzzy-Reticle
04-01-14, 15:32
I added a Troy Charlie Battlerail today to one of my rifles. I like it. It really locks up tight and solid.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll190/fuzzyreticle/SIG%20M400/IMG_9351_zps04740055.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/fuzzyreticle/media/SIG%20M400/IMG_9351_zps04740055.jpg.html)
Fuzzy.. that's pretty slick..why did you stick with the front sight post?
I can't seem to want to give mine up... guess u can say I'm a traditionalist.. I like the look of it.
Fuzzy-Reticle
04-05-14, 14:19
If it ain't broke why fix it. I dont think there is a better or stronger front site than the one on it.
The Troy is great IMHO.
SanDiegoLMT
04-05-14, 17:49
Between Troy and MI, I have more experience with MI, so I would vote for MI.
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