First Build - Left Hand AR 10.5" Pistol - Pics now added

[MarkB1]

Here you go. This is my first build. I have room to make some improvements later as time and cash allow.


Before I do anything I MUST thank ADCO Firearms (adcofirearms.com) for their help in removing the barrel and cutting, crowning and threading the barrel. I simply could not have done this without their help. Their work was of very high quality!

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j374/msbeam1/P3100082.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/msbeam1/media/P3100082.jpg.html)

After much reading and comments and suggestions from members I have decided to go with a H2 buffer instead of the standard buffer that came with the buffer tube.

Here are the parts.

Stag 3HL 5.56mm upper, 1/9 twist cut to 10.5”
Troy Claymore muzzle brake
McFarland One Piece Gas Ring
Yankee Hill gas block folding front sight
Yankee Hill folding rear sight
Bushnell First Strike red dot sight
Guntec carbine 4-rail hand guard
ERGO hand guard ladder rail covers
Magpul AFG grip


Stag lower receiver with left hand safety
AR15 pistol buffer tube set designed for the SB15 from The Global Sportsman
Stag H2 Buffer
Sig SB15 pistol brace
KNS Gen2 Mod2 trigger group pins
Norgon Ambi-catch mag release
Oversized trigger guard by Dead On Arms
Bravo Company Mod 1 pistol grip
Magpul AFG Grip
Magpul MWF Magwell grip


If you notice the front sight is on backwards so it will clear the forearm. If I put it on normally, the sight hits the forearm and does not go all the way down.
The Bushnell First Strike red dot sight works find. It sits above the folded sights and below the sight line of the upright sights.

This is one FUN gun to hold. I can only imagine how it will be when I actually fire it.

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j374/msbeam1/P3130012.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/msbeam1/media/P3130012.jpg.html)

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j374/msbeam1/P3130005.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/msbeam1/media/P3130005.jpg.html)

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j374/msbeam1/P3130011.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/msbeam1/media/P3130011.jpg.html)

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j374/msbeam1/P3130010.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/msbeam1/media/P3130010.jpg.html)

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j374/msbeam1/P3130009.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/msbeam1/media/P3130009.jpg.html)

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j374/msbeam1/P3130008.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/msbeam1/media/P3130008.jpg.html)

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j374/msbeam1/P3130007.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/msbeam1/media/P3130007.jpg.html)

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j374/msbeam1/P3130006.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/msbeam1/media/P3130006.jpg.html)



I have put a Troy Claymore muzzle brake on the pistol. In case I should forget how, the Claymore comes with instructions:

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j374/msbeam1/P3100004.jpg (http://s1082.photobucket.com/user/msbeam1/media/P3100004.jpg.html)

I'm looking forward to getting to the range with this pistol.

[Tire]

I had my burris fast fire mounted like that, but when actually shooting it made me scrunch down to far and was uncomfortable. Primary arms has cheap yhm risers if you run into the same problem.
Now you just need to build a 300 BO version, you already have the carbine buffer.

[MarkB1]

I had my burris fast fire mounted like that, but when actually shooting it made me scrunch down to far and was uncomfortable. Primary arms has cheap yhm risers if you run into the same problem.
Now you just need to build a 300 BO version, you already have the carbine buffer.


Were you able to get co-witness with the riser? I see Primary has the 3 slot riser that raises 1/2" for $16. Thanks for the tip.

[Tire]

Yes it did. absolute.
At first I liked being able to flip the sights up and they looked out completly over the top of the RDS. But like i said in actual shooting it proved to be less than acceptable.
Now with the 1/2" riser it's easy to shoot and co-witness is perfect.
I also like your linear comp, I have not tried the troy version, but it should work like all the rest. Still going to have considerable blast outta that little noise maker.

[MarkB1]

Thanks, I checked my stuff and found a GG&G 1/2" riser I can use. Sometimes you get lucky.

Here's another comp you can consider. I have one on my LH Gunsite rifle and it works fine.

This is the smooth model that will be available mid-April.

http://www.blackrivertactical.com/store.html#!/~/product/category=1799361&id=33189473

This is the fluted model that will be available mid-April.

http://www.blackrivertactical.com/store.html#!/~/product/category=1799361&id=33189471

[Leaveammoforme]

Does the magwell grip not turn this 'pistol' into an AOW?

[MarkB1]

Does the magwell grip not turn this 'pistol' into an AOW?

Neither the MWG magwell grip nor the AFG forearm grip make the pistol a SBR or a AOW. It's still a pistol. There are ATF letters about them out there. You can search for them.

[Leaveammoforme]

Neither the MWG magwell grip nor the AFG forearm grip make the pistol a SBR or a AOW. It's still a pistol. There are ATF letters about them out there. You can search for them.

I knew the AFG was cool, just not about the MWG. Thanks for info.

[MarkB1]

I found the letter for the MWG.

It's in post #5

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=475942

[Ejh28]

How is the Troy Claymore on the pistol?

[scooter22]

Kill it with fire.

[MarkB1]

How is the Troy Claymore on the pistol?

I can't say. I haven't had a chance to fire the pistol yet. Time and money are limited. However, I find the Claymore nice to use on my 16" AR (5.56mm). It does reduce the effect of the blast on the shooter and bystanders. It also has some reduction in recoil.

[WickedWillis]

Kill it with fire.

We are on the same page scooter.

[discreet]

1/9 twist on a 10in barrel??? This has me way confused lol. All I feed my 10.3 is brown tip. Probably the only ammo actually worth a damn with such a short barrel.

You shooting 197's?

[MarkB1]

1/9 twist on a 10in barrel??? This has me way confused lol. All I feed my 10.3 is brown tip. Probably the only ammo actually worth a damn with such a short barrel.

You shooting 197's?

I haven't fired it yet but I'll be using M193 (55gr), SS109 (green tip, 62gr, LC03), Speer Duty 55gr, and Fusion 62gr to see what shoots and functions best. That's what I have on hand now.

[eodinert]

I haven't fired it yet

I expect that when you do fire it, you'll find that you can't zero your iron sights, because they are not the same height.

[Iraqgunz]

Just out of curiousity. What did this nightmare cost you? Did you do any research at all or did you simply scour the aisles of the gun show looking for the bestest and brightest of the bunch? I am being serious here.

Issues that I see are the sights as someone else mentioned. Why did you get some POS clamp on block? Why didn't you use a low profile block that goes under the rail and then use a decent rail to cover it?

Did you happen to ask ADCO to measure the gas port for you before they chopped it? Was the port opened (if necessary) or are you winging it and hoping it works?

[MarkB1]

On the sights - while the sights are not the same height, they are the correct height. The rear YHM sight is on the rail of the receiver and is a standard height. The front YHM sight is taller because it is a gas block sight. The rail on the gas block is lower than the rail on the receiver so the front height has to be taller to bring the sights in line. This setup works fine on my 16" Stag.

I used the Stag left hand receiver because I'm left handed (duh). The cost was about $1200 all told, give or take. I sold another gun to finance this one. I tried to keep the cost down where I could. A example is the Guntec carbine 4-rail hand guard. The hand guard cost me $29 and works fine. I can't afford $250 to $300 on a "perfect" hand guard. The Troy Claymore cost $48 and does what I want without being too bulky or heavy. The Bushnell First Strike cost me $100 and not the $400 to $700 for an Aimpoint or Eotech.

I measured the gas port and it is 0.085". If the gun is over-gassed with that port and the H2 buffer, I'll try the H3 buffer next and an adjustable gas block if I still have problems. The upper/barrel is a 2005 Stag 16" upper/barrel that I used while I put the new Stag upper/barrel on the old Stag lower. The gas block is the Stag gas block that came with the barrel and has not been a problem. There are some things on the gun that are not absolutely needed but I just wanted. Later on, if I have more funds, I'll get some improvements on the parts. There are no gun show parts.

It would be nice to have a Cadillac but I'll keep the Chevy for now.

[sammage]

It would be nice to have a Cadillac but I'll keep the Chevy for now.

This analogy is so far off...

[WickedWillis]

On the sights - while the sights are not the same height, they are the correct height. The rear YHM sight is on the rail of the receiver and is a standard height. The front YHM sight is taller because it is a gas block sight. The rail on the gas block is lower than the rail on the receiver so the front height has to be taller to bring the sights in line. This setup works fine on my 16" Stag.

I used the Stag left hand receiver because I'm left handed (duh). The cost was about $1200 all told, give or take. I sold another gun to finance this one. I tried to keep the cost down where I could. A example is the Guntec carbine 4-rail hand guard. The hand guard cost me $29 and works fine. I can't afford $250 to $300 on a "perfect" hand guard. The Troy Claymore cost $48 and does what I want without being too bulky or heavy. The Bushnell First Strike cost me $100 and not the $400 to $700 for an Aimpoint or Eotech.

I measured the gas port and it is 0.085". If the gun is over-gassed with that port and the H2 buffer, I'll try the H3 buffer next and an adjustable gas block if I still have problems. The upper/barrel is a 2005 Stag 16" upper/barrel that I used while I put the new Stag upper/barrel on the old Stag lower. The gas block is the Stag gas block that came with the barrel and has not been a problem. There are some things on the gun that are not absolutely needed but I just wanted. Later on, if I have more funds, I'll get some improvements on the parts. There are no gun show parts.

It would be nice to have a Cadillac but I'll keep the Chevy for now.


Out of everything you just said you contradicted yourself quite a bit. Are you referring to the fact you did not actually buy the parts at the gunshow, or that they are not actually low-quality parts? The magwell grip is not necessary, you shouldn't hold a rifle (even a pistol in this case) especially because you have an AFG on the rail there. Stag has a shoddy reputation, although from what I understand they are getting better. Plus the clamp on gas block, I dunno, It's iffy man. The whole caddy to chevy comparison is way off as well, like sammage referred to. It's a solid plinker, don't get me wrong but that is really about it.

[Sean W.]

Christ, for that money I would have just bought a standard BCM upper, PSA blem lower, and an Aimpoint PRO. But if this is just a plinker it doesn't really matter.

[Iraqgunz]

Just a few facts. Don't let them get in the way of this.

1. It is overgassed. A 16" carbine port should be .063. A 10.5" or 10.3" MK18 should be around .072.

2. A left handed upper is unnecessary. It has a brass deflector built in, and thousands and thousands of military personnel and cops use right handed uppers all the time w/o fail. If being left handed was so important I would think you would have an ambi charging handle, magazine release and selector.

3. A quality assembled SBR/ complete SBR or AR pistol would have probably been less or even the same, but it would have been done right and it would actually have some value to it.




On the sights - while the sights are not the same height, they are the correct height. The rear YHM sight is on the rail of the receiver and is a standard height. The front YHM sight is taller because it is a gas block sight. The rail on the gas block is lower than the rail on the receiver so the front height has to be taller to bring the sights in line. This setup works fine on my 16" Stag.

I used the Stag left hand receiver because I'm left handed (duh). The cost was about $1200 all told, give or take. I sold another gun to finance this one. I tried to keep the cost down where I could. A example is the Guntec carbine 4-rail hand guard. The hand guard cost me $29 and works fine. I can't afford $250 to $300 on a "perfect" hand guard. The Troy Claymore cost $48 and does what I want without being too bulky or heavy. The Bushnell First Strike cost me $100 and not the $400 to $700 for an Aimpoint or Eotech.

I measured the gas port and it is 0.085". If the gun is over-gassed with that port and the H2 buffer, I'll try the H3 buffer next and an adjustable gas block if I still have problems. The upper/barrel is a 2005 Stag 16" upper/barrel that I used while I put the new Stag upper/barrel on the old Stag lower. The gas block is the Stag gas block that came with the barrel and has not been a problem. There are some things on the gun that are not absolutely needed but I just wanted. Later on, if I have more funds, I'll get some improvements on the parts. There are no gun show parts.

It would be nice to have a Cadillac but I'll keep the Chevy for now.

[mtdawg169]

... cost was about $1200 all told, give or take.

It would be nice to have a Cadillac but I'll keep the Chevy for now.

You overpaid for your Chevy, by alot.

[MarkB1]

The first cost was off the top of my head so I went back and added up the actual cost of the pistol. The actual cost was $946.68. A few comments.

I know the gun may be over-gassed. I'll deal with that with buffers and, if needed, and adjustable gas block. However, read the following post from another forum. It may not be over gassed:


Q: My Rifle has a short-stroking problem - the gunsmith says it may be a gas port problem. What are the correct sizes for the gasport?

A: Courtesy of Rick McDowell of Competition Specialties, NRA Life, USPSA Life, Master ( 105 E. Cass, PO Box 451, Osceola, Iowa 50213 Phone: (800)369-4481 / (641)342-2011 )

I have an Extraction Problem, is this related? How can they be fixed?The below gas port dimensions are the ones that I have accumulated while working on AR's for years. When someone is having problems with short stroking and their gas port is not within the below ranges, that is usually the main problem. On individual rifles I have varied both bigger and smaller with port sizes, but these were definitely exceptions, or there was no other choice due to poor quality parts we were working with.

For example;

11.5" barrel, .750" barrel diameter at the port, 3.850" from muzzle; Port should be approx. .086" to .094" in diameter. The smallest I have seen the port on these short barrels is .081" and it worked with some military ammo but not with some faster burning rate, commercial ammo. With the .086" port the military ammunition worked better but the commercial still wasn't getting enough pressure to work the carrier properly. The .094" port would work with both the high port pressure military ammo and low port pressure PMC ammo. Anything over .094" will cause short stroking/timing problems from too much pressure to the carrier and under .086" might cause short stroking for lack of pressure. To know if the port should be changed or not will depend on a few other things. Is the chamber narrower than it should be? Is the chamber rougher than it should be? Are the rings worn and allowing gas to blow by? Is the carrier key allowing gas to blow by? Etc., etc. Eliminate these variables first! With a smaller diameter barrel at the port, the gas port sizes will usually be a little smaller as well, given the barrel length is still the same.

Barrel Length (in) Barrel Diameter (in) Distance from Muzzle (in) Min Port Size (in) Max Port Size (in)
11.5 .625 3.850 .081 .089
11.5 .750 3.850 .086 .094
14.5 .625 8.375 .063 .078
14.5 .750 8.375 .070 .086
16 .625 8.375 .063 .078
16 .750 8.375 .070 .086
20 .625 6.875 .086 .093
20 .750 6.875 .093 .096
24 .825 N/A .089 .089


These are of my own compiling and may not be 'spec', but I was never able to find this 'spec', so I made a list of my own from known good shooting, reliable rifles. And just as important, from the unreliable rifles that worked fine after the gas port was opened up or made smaller. Don't let a gunsmith drill out a port because of a short stroking problem that you might have! More than likely it needs to go smaller, not larger.


The upper is left handed because I wanted a left hand AR. A left hand upper is considered unnecessary if you are right handed. I don't worry about the brass because of the deflector but I don't want the possibility of gas and particle blowback into my face. I'll leave that for the right handed people who may fire my gun. I believe that most of the military and LE use of the right handed ARs is due to the added cost of supplying left hand ARs to the forces. They have to "make do" with the right hand AR. I won't "make do".

If you look, there is an ambi catch on the charging rod, a left hand safety and a left hand mag release.

Again, the pistol is what I wanted and that has a lot of value for me.

[Iraqgunz]

His numbers are wrong. I am out. Enjoy your AR pistol. I hope that it works for you.


The first cost was off the top of my head so I went back and added up the actual cost of the pistol. The actual cost was $946.68. A few comments.

I know the gun may be over-gassed. I'll deal with that with buffers and, if needed, and adjustable gas block. However, read the following post from another forum. It may not be over gassed:


Q: My Rifle has a short-stroking problem - the gunsmith says it may be a gas port problem. What are the correct sizes for the gasport?

A: Courtesy of Rick McDowell of Competition Specialties, NRA Life, USPSA Life, Master ( 105 E. Cass, PO Box 451, Osceola, Iowa 50213 Phone: (800)369-4481 / (641)342-2011 )

I have an Extraction Problem, is this related? How can they be fixed?The below gas port dimensions are the ones that I have accumulated while working on AR's for years. When someone is having problems with short stroking and their gas port is not within the below ranges, that is usually the main problem. On individual rifles I have varied both bigger and smaller with port sizes, but these were definitely exceptions, or there was no other choice due to poor quality parts we were working with.

For example;

11.5" barrel, .750" barrel diameter at the port, 3.850" from muzzle; Port should be approx. .086" to .094" in diameter. The smallest I have seen the port on these short barrels is .081" and it worked with some military ammo but not with some faster burning rate, commercial ammo. With the .086" port the military ammunition worked better but the commercial still wasn't getting enough pressure to work the carrier properly. The .094" port would work with both the high port pressure military ammo and low port pressure PMC ammo. Anything over .094" will cause short stroking/timing problems from too much pressure to the carrier and under .086" might cause short stroking for lack of pressure. To know if the port should be changed or not will depend on a few other things. Is the chamber narrower than it should be? Is the chamber rougher than it should be? Are the rings worn and allowing gas to blow by? Is the carrier key allowing gas to blow by? Etc., etc. Eliminate these variables first! With a smaller diameter barrel at the port, the gas port sizes will usually be a little smaller as well, given the barrel length is still the same.

Barrel Length (in) Barrel Diameter (in) Distance from Muzzle (in) Min Port Size (in) Max Port Size (in)
11.5 .625 3.850 .081 .089
11.5 .750 3.850 .086 .094
14.5 .625 8.375 .063 .078
14.5 .750 8.375 .070 .086
16 .625 8.375 .063 .078
16 .750 8.375 .070 .086
20 .625 6.875 .086 .093
20 .750 6.875 .093 .096
24 .825 N/A .089 .089


These are of my own compiling and may not be 'spec', but I was never able to find this 'spec', so I made a list of my own from known good shooting, reliable rifles. And just as important, from the unreliable rifles that worked fine after the gas port was opened up or made smaller. Don't let a gunsmith drill out a port because of a short stroking problem that you might have! More than likely it needs to go smaller, not larger.


The upper is left handed because I wanted a left hand AR. A left hand upper is considered unnecessary if you are right handed. I don't worry about the brass because of the deflector but I don't want the possibility of gas and particle blowback into my face. I'll leave that for the right handed people who may fire my gun. I believe that most of the military and LE use of the right handed ARs is due to the added cost of supplying left hand ARs to the forces. They have to "make do" with the right hand AR. I won't "make do".

If you look, there is an ambi catch on the charging rod, a left hand safety and a left hand mag release.

Again, the pistol is what I wanted and that has a lot of value for me.

[Vash1023]

The first cost was off the top of my head so I went back and added up the actual cost of the pistol. The actual cost was $946.68. A few comments.

I know the gun may be over-gassed. I'll deal with that with buffers and, if needed, and adjustable gas block. However, read the following post from another forum. It may not be over gassed:

If you look, there is an ambi catch on the charging rod, a left hand safety and a left hand mag release.

Again, the pistol is what I wanted and that has a lot of value for me.

Are you really serious?

you register on this forum, post a thread about your overpriced garbage build using crap parts and incorrect information.

then when people tell you whats wrong with it (including a MOD and IP), you try and justify your mistakes with misinformation and bad analogies.

GTFO

[jonbondave]

Sigh.....

[MarkB1]

This post has been up for a month with average, good responses. Yet in the last 24 hours I received a whole lot of crap from members who I seem to have offended with my pistol. I value and respect the information and the vastly more experience than I have of the members here but my response is a direct result to the quality of the delivery of that information. Tell me where I've gone wrong and how I may fix it but don't give me a bunch of unwarranted crap, disrespect and personal attacks. This thread has been destroyed by those posts in one day.

[mtdawg169]

This post has been up for a month with average, good responses. Yet in the last 24 hours I received a whole lot of crap from members who I seem to have offended with my pistol. I value and respect the information and the vastly more experience than I have of the members here but my response is a direct result to the quality of the delivery of that information. Tell me where I've gone wrong and how I may fix it but don't give me a bunch of unwarranted crap, disrespect and personal attacks. This thread has been destroyed by those posts in one day.

Mark, this isn't the place to come if you want someone to ooh and aah over your pieced together build and reinforce your purchasing decisions. The focus here is on quality, purpose built guns. For what you spent, be it $1k or $1.2k, you could have turned out a much higher quality piece, with a little more research and forethought. Finally, facts matter. The port sizes you posted are way off and could mislead someone looking for the correct specs. Iraqgunz is an SBE, if he tells you they are wrong, you can take that to the bank. SMEs participate here on M4C for our benefit and their advice should not be so easily dismissed. We may not agree on minutiae, but their advice should be given good consideration. One random guys "research" does not define the correct specs. The correct port sizes could have been easily found here if you had taken the time. The response you've seen in the last 24 hours are from some of the more seasoned members and we generally have a higher standard for a build, with an emphasis on quality, functionality and purpose.

[tgizzard]

I've been thinking of putting a pistol together. This thread has been a good lesson in what not to do when and if I got down that road. Thanks OP! ;)

[WickedWillis]

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y409/Wickedwillis/MichealJacksonPopcorn_zpse916b062.gif (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Wickedwillis/media/MichealJacksonPopcorn_zpse916b062.gif.html)