View Full Version : 5.56 Reloading Break Even Range?
I know this is subject to many factors, but what is a range for how many rounds you'd have to reload (5.56 say m193 or m855) to break even?
Assume you have to buy everything needed to reload (I own no reloading equipment).
Trying to decide if it's worth the investment from a financial standpoint. (I know there are other reasons you'd want to have the reloading equipment and knowledge).
Thanks
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Leaveammoforme
03-21-14, 18:19
My 223 reloads cost me about half of what store bought does. So if I buy ammo at around 46 cents it cost me about 23 (with free brass) to load a similar round. Say you had $1000 worth of reload equipment. On 223 alone at my rate you would break even around 4376 rounds. I think my math is right...
Dealing with some rough numbers off the top of my head, I'd say I'm at about $0.18 per round. If the current market price is about $0.40 per round, you'd be at $0.22 saved. That's $220 saved per 1K reloaded.
Again, these are rough guesstimates. YMMV
Here's a load calculator to play with some numbers:
http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp
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Wow much lower than I thought. Thanks guys. And thanks for the calc ryno
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I'm sure there are many reloaders here that can get much lower than that yet. Of course it all depends on the components you're purchasing, the ammo you're comparing it to & the cost of the reloading equipment itself.
The more you shoot, the more you save.
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Using my RCBS reloading app, it puts me at .20 cents a round. But besides the cost savings, theres a certain satisfaction factor that comes into play when reloading for me. Knowing that I pay close attention to detail to each and every round I load, being certain what I am producing and having the ability to make custom rounds seals the deal for me. Handloads are more accurate IMO also. And since getting a 300 blk upper, its really made it worthwhile.
I'm jealous. I'm getting around .28 per round. If I shoot Berger it goes up another .15 at least. Heck even my 69gr SMK's run me .20 per just for the bullets. My cheapest 55gr. runs about a dime per bullet. I did get a deal on 75gr PRVI's a while back for around .12.
As for reloading gear I wish I had just spent $1000. But I did get a Chargemaster and the electric Power Mate along with a Giraud trimmer. I also bought Forster Dies which added to the expense.
scoutfsu99
03-21-14, 19:57
I bought a lot of components a few years ago in bulk and went in on some group buys for powder. I'm still reloading 55gr rounds for 13.6ea. I have a ton of free brass from when we were using the Sheriff's range and I use surplus powder.
I'm sitting on a few thousand Nosler 69gr to start playing with but haven't had the time w/ school and stuff.
That initial payment sucks but you have to have the long view when doing this. You will either save a good bit of money or spend the same amount and get in quite a bit more shooting. It's a good problem to have.
Using my RCBS reloading app, it puts me at .20 cents a round.
That's a nice app, I just downloaded it.
I did some closer figures and my 55gr blaster ammo out to $0.19 per round & my 77SMK load comes out to $0.36 per round. :eek:
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I'm at .18/rnd using Hornady 55gr bullets.
If you factor in the cost of tools & equipment it'll take a long time to recoup your investment. But remember, it lasts forever and reloading is pretty enjoyable, so it's really a hobby in its own right. I don't really factor that cost into my per round value.
How long does it take to make a 100 rounds?
Not to mention you will reload other calibers. When I started I was only going to reload for three calibers. Now I'm to at least 8. With those factored in, the breakeven point is much lower.
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the correct answer is you "won't" break even reloading your own, you "will" shoot more which means that you will spend more BUT you have control of your components, and can get "more" for your money. you will also be able to make affordable premium ammo. I would point to markm and others that do shoot a lot as a point in case for quality ammo for less than commercial and reloading has allowed me to keep shooting when commercial ammo was not avaliable
Leaveammoforme
03-21-14, 21:28
How long does it take to make a 100 rounds?
Depends on style of press & how much "love" goes into ammo.
I hand weigh every charge & perform all steps on a single stage press including extra stage for factory crimp. I'm at 6 hours per 100 from dirty brass all the way to loaded ammo.
mkmckinley
03-21-14, 21:39
How long does it take to make a 100 rounds?
I'm running a Dillon 550B and 100rds takes maybe 20 minutes on new brass including filling the primer tube. I'll usually do 500 or 1000 round lots on a Saturday and once you get rolling it's pretty fast and consistent.
I would point to markm and others that do shoot a lot as a point in case for quality ammo for less than commercial and reloading has allowed me to keep shooting when commercial ammo was not avaliable
This is why i am thinking about doing my own ammo.
The dillon 550b is the one i am looking at.
thopkins22
03-21-14, 22:30
The dillon 550b is the one i am looking at.
If you're only going to have one press, a 550b is the one to have. Solid choice that will do damn near everything you're ever going to want to do and it'll do it well.
The old saying that you won't really save money, you'll just shoot more is probably pretty true. I'd also add that you'll probably wind up shooting ammunition that's far superior to anything you'd been buying if you're willing to invest just a little bit of time beyond sending them through the dies in one go. Once you learn how many variables can be removed to make superior ammunition(other than the basic powder/bullet differences,) I think you'll probably look down your nose at factory "match" ammunition.
The reason to start reloading rifle is not to save money, it is to shoot more and shoot more consistently because you are making better, more consistent ammo.
Pariah Carey
03-22-14, 00:24
I bought a lot of reloading supplies in the last year but have done nothing with them. I realized one day I'd rather just work more at my business and buy factory ammo. It's much easier for me to put in a full day's work, then come home and with one click have a thousand rounds delivered to my door. Not interested in neat little groups and I don't need another hobby. Any costs savings will be far outweighed by the time spent, and for me saving time is much more important than saving money. I should have thought about that before I bought 50-something pounds of powder and tens of thousands of primers and bullets. Oh well it's not like they'll go down in value so I may just dump it when the next panic hits, or Hillary gets elected whichever is first. Or if things get really bad I can just keep it all and learn the craft.
Takes me a little over an hour not counting tumbling, using a single stage press and a Chargemaster. (in response to heat-ar's question)
fwiw:
To add to above posts re: reloading:
- You will "one day" break even, just a matter of how much time you are on the machine.
- Friends/Family that I have helped get setup are kinda taken back at first regarding the amount of components I recommend they should order once they get the hang of it. Reason is the HAZMAT & bulk pricing is usually cheaper for bullets. But, once they start cranking rounds out = It all makes sense per/1K ;)
- Can't say its cheaper WITH your time calculated in, but if you make the time its worth it.
- Reloading so you can control and tailor the variables to suite your firearms: Accuracy/Velocity/QUALITY :)
MAJOR Plus for me:
- Availability: I hate waiting for deliverers, driving around, & of course the cost of what new ammo is now.
* Miss the days you could pick up what you wanted to shoot for the day at the LGS for a fair price. . . . 9mm was only worth reloading if you "tailored" your reloads, most times costing more than new with FMJ.
* ^ Don't want to the wrong impression: You WILL still wait: Components ! But, if you buy it cheap & stock it deep = You should be GTG between reorders :)
* * * PLEASE Buy some reloading manuals/books: Lyman; Hornady; Speer
* * * DO NOT RELOAD INTERNET DATA . . . Not worth the safety risk; Load up from a Recommended Minimum
Rifle:
- Prep in batches over time so you're not locked up for hours & space out once you start cycling the press.
^ imho: Rifle is ALL about the prep you do before hand to make it efficient & have a smooth work flow.
Pistol:
- Prep: Clean Brass whenever I'm home so I just have to lube cases then Reload :)
Have a great one
The important part is to shop for the lowest prices in quantity as you can't reload economically with the local gun shop mark ups. You should buy a Dillon!! I have had my 550 since 1991 and the price factored over the years has been minimal. Yep pistol reloading is a breeze the rifle reloading is case prep and practice makes it perfect. OH yeah there is a learning curve so take the TIME to learn how adjust the press and dies, do baby steps for a while. After you get it down it is really simple.
What I've saved on pistol ammo covers the cost of my setup so that rifle is basically thrown in for "free", as it were. $130/1k for .40 S&W vs. $350-400/1K paid for my press REALLY fast--so when I get around to 5.56, I'm not putting out anything other than components so that check is purely saving over factory. As far as time value is concerned, I reload when it's crappy outside from raining or cold, and after work instead of TV, so I lose nothing on that. Per 1k of anything the price tag difference multiplied times everything I shoot I'd be stupid not to reload.
Last year I had ammo to shoot because I reload--if I didn't, I wouldn't have.
Exactly. I ran the math on my savings on 45acp alone about 8 years ago. I was floored that I'd paid for all of my stuff many times over.
I'd still handload if it were a break even. I like doing it and I have zero tolerance for garbage rifle ammo.
One thing that's getting my itchy to reinvest some of my savings, though, is that Dillon case trimmer. I was trimming and loading some .223 a couple days ago just using a simple Lee zip trim, and I was noticing how slow it was going compared to every other step in the process. A bit over $300 could save me so many hours per thousand...hmm...so I'd pay for that in just a couple K rounds...hmmm...
Screw that. Step up to the Giraud or Gracey. If you're willing to got $300.... You're too close in capital expenditure to have to debur and chamfer still.
Crap... I'll set my Giraud on the coffee table and trim on the couch when I have a good pile.
1slow01Z71
04-16-14, 22:41
Screw that. Step up to the Giraud or Gracey. If you're willing to got $300.... You're too close in capital expenditure to have to debur and chamfer still.
Crap... I'll set my Giraud on the coffee table and trim on the couch when I have a good pile.
Agreed. The giraud is awesome. Finally ponied up the credit card a couple weeks ago and put my name on the wait list for a trimmer and annealer.
How long does it take to make a 100 rounds?
100 rounds of what? And for what?
I can knock out 100 rounds of .40 on my progressive easily. Rifle calibers take longer as it's a two shot deal. 1 pass for size/de-prime, then tumble lube off, then prime, charge, seat. This doesn't include any hand case prep.
Depends on style of press & how much "love" goes into ammo.
I hand weigh every charge & perform all steps on a single stage press including extra stage for factory crimp. I'm at 6 hours per 100 from dirty brass all the way to loaded ammo.
Some of the "love" only has to be given once. Primer pocket swage and flash hole de-burr are one shot deals. Others like trimming to length and cleaning are constant issues. Blasting ammo can have more overlooked, precision handloads need much TLC.
30 cal slut
04-24-14, 11:12
I don't mean to nitpick this discussion, but I think it's meaningful to differentiate two different kinds of "costs" when it comes to reloading.
One is the "cash" cost. All the investment in tooling (presses, dies, case trimmers, tumblers, measuring and gauging tools, powder measures, scales, etc) and consumable (brass, powder, primer, bullets, lube).
The other is what I call "true economic" cost - and that factors in the most expensive part of reloading. The value of your labor and your time.
You could theoretically be making an hourly wage (or something like that even if you are salaried) somewhere instead of spending time reloading.
I think that you'll be surprised how expensive your home brewed ammo is when you consider what the imputed labor expense is.
I love to reload, but when I crunch the numbers, it's the most expensive ammo I've ever "bought." lol.
It's an academic distinction, I know.
Another thing to consider is the depreciation/wear and tear that your fixed equipment will go through. Most sizing dies are good for something like 125,000 loads, so I'm told. Your reaming and trimming tools will get dull and need to be replaced. Don't forget to include depreciation in your costs - the ammo manufacturers do. (It's miniscule for most of us, admittedly).
The personal time aspect has been brought up before over the years. In my opinion, it's only valid if you DO NOT like to reload, or if it's taking you away from some other opportunity to earn.
Depreciation is negligible. Most of my stuff would have fully depreciated over 5 years ago or more. I could justify replacing everything 3 times over and still make the costs a positive net present value. If you take care of your equipment, and make it last a long time... it's like printing money.
Exactly. If you don't like reloading, you're better off economically getting another job.
If you like it, it's a hobby that also saves you money on another hobby.
TexasGunNut
04-24-14, 14:49
One thing to always factor into this brave new world over break even is availability. I will always have the components on hand to assemble pretty much whatever I want or need for my centerfires. I have learned that I my not always be able to just run to the store and pick up exactly what I want.
I've been seriously reloading since the '70's and I've seen the break even points move around on all types of ammo. Until recently ( last 10 years :D for this old man ) brass cased 5.56 FMJ was almost always cheaper to buy than build. Especially if you counted on keeping the brass like I did. Over the last five years or so I've converted most of my brass into much better ammo than I could afford to purchase. So my stash is slowly converting from FMJ to TAP/Black Hills equivalent for a fraction of the replacement cost. That's MY breakeven - YMMV
Until recently ( last 10 years :D for this old man ) brass cased 5.56 FMJ was almost always cheaper to buy than build.
I'm not sure what you were buying or building..... but before the recent panic, without even trying, I could make 55 gr FMJ for $0.19 per round. I can't remember ever buying brass cased American ammo for $3.80 per box after tax.
But yeah.... I'm all about turning bad ammo into good stuff. A lot of the time, I'll pull new ammo apart for the primed brass.
Coal Dragger
04-24-14, 17:53
I don't really care if I ever break even on my reloading equipment purchases, I know that at some point I will on my new XL650 and I did long ago on the Square Deal B, and my Redding T7 is to the break even point now (doesn't take long reloading .280AI and .454 Casull to break even). My main reasons for reloading are:
1.) Quality of ammo. I can usually make ammo as good as anything I can buy, and for certain uses like reduced power .454 Casull I can't really find factory ammo like that.
2.) Availability. Unless you've been living in a cave for the last decade you know that at various times like elections or random acts of violence that ammo supplies can be really tight. I keep a good supply of components on hand and powder when I can to insulate myself from this nonsense.
Well heck now that I swag my own bullets -22 LRs pickups - free, lead free, brass free I now just pay for powder and primers so I'm down to about 5-8 cents a round. And I can make 40 -70 gr bullets. I recouped my investment in reloading many years ago. Now I'm just recouping the swagging equipment cost which will not take long. :D
Leaveammoforme
04-26-14, 01:02
Well heck now that I swag my own bullets -22 LRs pickups - free, lead free, brass free I now just pay for powder and primers so I'm down to about 5-8 cents a round. And I can make 40 -70 gr bullets. I recouped my investment in reloading many years ago. Now I'm just recouping the swagging equipment cost which will not take long. :D
Got my attention! Do you use the 22lr brass to create SP's or FMJ's with a gas check?
I don't really care if I ever break even on my reloading equipment purchases.
I agree with this. When I started, I never thought I was saving money.... I just liked doing it.
Until recently ( last 10 years :D for this old man ) brass cased 5.56 FMJ was almost always cheaper to buy than build...
I can't remember ever buying brass cased American ammo for $3.80 per box after tax.
It wasn't from America, but up until 2008 the market was awash with decent quality foreign surplus 5.56 and 7.62NATO. Surplus ammo was so cheap that it didn't make economic sense to me to reload.
I still have the receipts from when I bought 800rnds of RG 7.62 for $185, shipped. That's less than ¢25/round, shipped. 5.56 would've been even cheaper.
Yeah... I forgot about the Guat and S. African ammos.
macho mouse
04-26-14, 20:14
My wife shoots a SW 500 and factory ammo is over $3.00 a pop. I cast the bullets and have the cost down to about a quarter a shot. The dies were a bit spendy and the bullet mold was about $125 but she shot enough the first couple of months that we already saved enough to cover those initial hits.
Leaveammoforme
Nope my Swag dies create HP's tough you can buy a die to make SP's! Here's a pic of some 55 grs I made. Best part is my AR's will never be lacking ammo.
25464
Leaveammoforme
04-26-14, 22:55
Leaveammoforme
Nope my Swag dies create HP's tough you can buy a die to make SP's! Here's a pic of some 55 grs I made.
25464
Interesting stuff. You got me reading on making my own projectiles. How much would you say you have invested? I wouldn't mind making my own 62'ish grain HPs or SPs .
Leaveammoforme
04-26-14, 23:06
Interesting stuff. You got me reading on making my own projectiles. How much would you say you have invested? I wouldn't mind making my own 62'ish grain HPs or SPs .
Never mind! Just saw prices of dies and what not! Ill keep buying projectiles.
Leaveammoforme
Yep never said it was cheap to get into it. But that bag of bullets cost me ZERO! Just a little time. Since most bullets are what $25-35 per hundred- pulls might be a little cheaper ? That expense for the dies gets paid off real quick!:D
Coal Dragger
04-27-14, 00:27
My wife shoots a SW 500 and factory ammo is over $3.00 a pop. I cast the bullets and have the cost down to about a quarter a shot. The dies were a bit spendy and the bullet mold was about $125 but she shot enough the first couple of months that we already saved enough to cover those initial hits.
It takes almost no time at all to recoup your $$$ when shooting big bore handgun, or magnum rifle! Factory ammo can be hard to find, and obscenely expensive when you do find it.
Out of curiosity what are you using to cast with? I have a .454 Casull to feed and it shoots hard cast bullets pretty well, was thinking of starting to cast my own 270gr SAA style bullet for "sane human being" level loads. The start up costs have me a bit reluctant, and not sure how easy it is to cast I've tried a bit but never got the hang of throwing perfect bullets in a mold.
Coal Dragger
Still have a Lever gun in 454! I cast 230-325 bullets for mine. My 300 and 325 grs are GC'd. As for Mag Rifle calibers you can and many do shoot cast in them, your just going to be limited in Velocity you can achieve. That's the only draw back with cast. Don't expect to run them at 2700 fps or more. think more like 2400 or less! Good thing is you can do it using a heck of a lot less powder!:D
Leaveammoforme
Yep never said it was cheap to get into it. But that bag of bullets cost me ZERO! Just a little time. Since most bullets are what $25-35 per hundred- pulls might be a little cheaper ? That expense for the dies gets paid off real quick!:D
I remember seeing this on ARF years back. The deal breaker at that time was mediocre accuracy from the bullets. How has the accuracy been for you?
markm
Well they might not be match grade accurate -yet! They do shoot just as good as store bought FMJ -for pennies.
25473
That's acceptable for practice stuff for sure.
Markm
That target was of some of the first bullets made as I refine the process I expect it to get better and it has . My 55gr shoot alot tighter now as I refined the process for them. I now segragate by maker( CCI,Fed,Win etc.) cutting down on variances and so fourth. That group on that target was shot with mixed cases used to make bullets. I'm now down to about 1.5" groups which is more then exceptable. I'm in the process to ship a bunch of 22mag/17hmrs cases off to a guy to make jackets I can use to make 68-75 gr bullets, cause unfortunately my derimming die will not do it. Works great on 22 shorts and 22 LR's not so much on the 22mags!
Pretty interesting stuff. Are you annealing the cases?
markm
Well they might not be match grade accurate -yet! They do shoot just as good as store bought FMJ -for pennies.
25473
COAL 1.190? Shouldn't that be 2.260?
Leaveammoforme
04-29-14, 14:10
COAL 1.190? Shouldn't that be 2.260?
He probably meant 2.190
He probably meant 2.190
Roger
B52U
Yea thats a typo! 2.190"
Markm
Yep you anneal the case prior to derimming. Tried derimming without -real PITA!
macho mouse
05-03-14, 20:46
Coaldragger
Sorry it took awhile to get back to you but this my method.
I start with clip-on wheelweights in my big pot ( it holds 350 lbs) and melt them over a propane burner to get a consistent alloy. Stick on wheelweights are almost pure lead and so are too soft by themselves but are useful to dilute a harder alloy if needed. Flux well and often but don't use regular soldering flux. Brownells and Midway have the stuff you need. I rest the molds on the solid lead and let them come up to casting temp along with the alloy. You will also need to "smoke " the molds to get them to release the bullets when they solidify. I generally run two molds, fill one and let it cool while you fill the second one.
By using two six cavity molds and staying after it all day, I can usually cast about 150-200lbs of bullets for the 44s and the 45s. I only use the 350 lb pot for volume practice ammo and use a 20 lb electric for more precision stuff.
If you want a lot more info (and I mean a lot), go to Cast Boolits web site and look around.
Best of luck
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