View Full Version : What's the scoop on the 416.
olds442tyguy
09-13-06, 14:17
So has there been any resolution to the 416 being denied further importation?
I was just wondering this myself--seemed like there was a decent buzz for a while there last spring (based on some posts at 10-8 and elsewhere) that it might become available to civvies after all, then nothing...
K
Still no civilian sales. HK doesn't even sell the parts yet. Keep looking though.
olds442tyguy
09-13-06, 14:43
I was just wondering this myself--seemed like there was a decent buzz for a while there last spring (based on some posts at 10-8 and elsewhere) that it might become available to civvies after all, then nothing...
K
From what I've heard, LE agnecies can't even get them right now. HK was good to go, but suddenly the ATF revoked their importation permit leaving HK with only what they had on hand at the time.
Normally I don't trust what's said on the internet to much, but that info came straight from Tom, the owner of HK Pro.
olds442tyguy
09-14-06, 17:25
Wow. Chen Lee just posted on TOS that instead of importing them or making them at an American HK facility, that HK will be contracting out for most of the 416's parts in the US market.
I bet $5 CMT gets the contract! :D
Voodoochild
09-14-06, 20:34
Well I saw a thread on that other forum where a gentleman was talking about this very thing. It is on the second page 8th post down on the AR discussions
I will call tomorrow to get the straight scoop.
Voodoochild
09-16-06, 22:50
I will call tomorrow to get the straight scoop.
And....
And....
Give me a few days.
OK, I got the real scoop yesterday evening.
(1.) The importation ban is killing local/state LE purchases, except for complete (NFA) weapons. Some Local/State LE upper conversation kit orders were accepted and filled but the ATF put a stop to it. Departments can still order complete (Auto) carbines because the importation ban does not effect them. Uppers are out until the ATF changes its policy.
(2.) Obviously the importation barrel ban is killing civilian sales also.
(3.) U.S. production is being discussed but I'm unsure how this will work out. Especially the barrels, I'm not sure who in the U.S. could make a barrel exactly to HK's specifications
I'm not sure who in the U.S. could make a barrel exactly to HK's specifications
Seriously?
Stephen
"Seriously?"
Very much so. Cold hammer forged barrels are not exactly coming out of the woodwork. The machines that are used in the process are very expensive not to mention huge.
If I'm not mistaken there is only one manufacturer of cold hammer forged barrels in the U.S. and I don't see HK transporting their machines here or buying machines for the U.S. so that pretty much limits the resources.
HK has always been know for it's high manufacturing standards and quality. They may falter in other areas (customer service perhaps...:rolleyes: ), but the guns run, and run well. So no, I don't see them using another type of barrel any time soon.
8th post down, second page? Those posts move and shuffle whenever they are responded too...
Seriously?
Stephen
Oh yes.
My guess would be more Hk worried about someone copying their propriatarial barrel nut and bbl ext threading that making a barrel to spec.
its a barrel its not the fricken space shuttle
-- Colt Canada (Diemaco) has two cold hammer forging machines that sit idle a lot -- and since the Cdn gov't subsidies them (Colt Canada) - I'd guess Hk could get them done if they want (to offset some $'s owed to HK for other CF projects -- just an idea)
My guess would be more Hk worried about someone copying their propriatarial barrel nut and bbl ext threading that making a barrel to spec.
its a barrel its not the fricken space shuttle
-- Colt Canada (Diemaco) has two cold hammer forging machines that sit idle a lot -- and since the Cdn gov't subsidies them (Colt Canada) - I'd guess Hk could get them done if they want (to offset some $'s owed to HK for other CF projects -- just an idea)
They still couldn't be imported just as barrels from Canada...the barrel import ban was "aimed" at hobbiest AK, FAL, and G3 builders but it also affects all military barrels...
Well - they sort of can -- Colt Canada is a US co. parts of lic off Colt and even for Cdn entities to buy them they go thru the US DOS ITAR stuff...
given that I am sure one could argue pretty convincingly to the BATF that it is not really an import
olds442tyguy
09-23-06, 17:28
One thing I feel deserves more attention is 922(r) compliance. (The civilian side.)
If HK makes the barrel, barrel nut, and flash hider in America, that gives it an official imported parts count of 6. Add in the HK magazines, and the number is up to 9. Throw in that 416 butt stock that's on the market, and it would have the maximum number of imported parts allowed at 10. Just make sure you don't add an imported pistol grip at this point.
If HK chooses to import their proprietary barrel but, that would raise the bare upper parts count to 7. The rest would increase as above, making the parts count with HK magazines an official 10. Add in that HK butt stock now, and you could possibly have the ATF coming to pay you a visit.
So hopefully HK has as many parts US made as possible with out sacrificing quality.
Here's a list of the 922(r) compliance parts list. If more than 10 of these parts are imported, you have an illegal rifle.
(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates
Heavy Metal
09-23-06, 17:31
I think NAFTA exempts Canadian stuff from such bullshit.
I think NAFTA exempts Canadian stuff from such bullshit.
If it does, the parts kit importers haven't been taking advantage of it, and I know they're looking for anything that would let them import their stuff.
*edited to add.......you may be right about barrels produced in Canada....it hasn't come up yet as far as I know.*
Voodoochild
09-23-06, 18:24
8th post down, second page? Those posts move and shuffle whenever they are responded too...
Well obviously it isnt going to be there now. That is why you need to look at the post date.:rolleyes: Looking there now after a week or two isnt going to help out..
Steel_Weasel
09-23-06, 19:05
Don't you just love the BATF.
TigerStripe
09-23-06, 19:13
What I love is their ability to do whatever they want with rules instead of laws. Maybe HK will yell loud enough to get that dumbass provision overturned.
TS
They're using the GCA of 1968 as their basis, since it gives ATF the latitude to regulate firearms for "sporting purposes"....and parts of guns.
(1.) I thought Diemaco (Now Colt Canada) was prevented from selling anything to civilians by Canadian laws?
(2.) There is more to the HK416 barrel than meets the eye.
- Colt has the rights to Colt Canada -- they are the only restriction...
Everything made by Colt Canada is controlled by the US DoS (M16 related -- the M240 barrels are not...)
TigerStripe
09-24-06, 00:46
They're using the GCA of 1968 as their basis, since it gives ATF the latitude to regulate firearms for "sporting purposes"....and parts of guns.
I understand that. They have chosen to enforce it at random. All I'm saying is that there is some internal BATFEtc document telling them to enforce it. Maybe HK has enough power to have them reverse that. Of course, Colt has a little power itself and may not want the 416 competing with the LE1020. Speaking of which, anone know anything about the LE1020's?
TS
Heavy Metal
09-24-06, 10:51
The 1968 GCA speciffically gives the ATF the authority to regulate 'frames' and 'barrels'.
Both are enumerated.
US Repeating Arms, AKA Winchester had a Vermont barrel forge that probally could have be available cheap at the auction.
http://www.thomasauction.com/auctions/auction.cfm?intProjectID=67
I am curious though since they have determined that the Colt subcontracted Diemaco uppers are considered US fabricated. Hard to then say they barrels are not... Moot point I think though - I cant see Colt helping
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