View Full Version : HK416
So I have an oppertunity to buy one NIB and i can't decide wether to buy it or not. I really would like one but I'm not sure if I wanna drop 4K on just an upper. That 4K is alot of training classes and ammo. I got to put about 600 rounds through one suppressed on F/A and was very impressed. So anyway just wanted to see what the opinions here would be, would you?
i couldnt justify that price. that said i wish i had one, or 4k to invest.
Exactly, I can't justify it at 4K or even 2K for that matter as I don't "need" one. The rifles I have right now I absolutely love, so it's definatly a "want" thing.
I would shoot the hell out of it and i'm sure i would enjoy it, it's just that 4K is a bit high for me. if they were half that price i'd probobly be posting pics of it right now. i make pretty good money, I'm single and no kids, just a dog but I am by no means rich with "disposable" income as the guns i have now I consider a nessesity;) , so basically the point I am making is it would be financially irresponsible of me to buy one right now. I suck at saving up for things so thats kinda out of the question. knowing me I'll wake up tomorrow and buy it anyway but I'd still love to hear your opinions.
Exactly, I can't justify it at 4K or even 2K for that matter as I don't "need" one. The rifles I have right now I absolutely love, so it's definatly a "want" thing.
I would shoot the hell out of it and i'm sure i would enjoy it, it's just that 4K is a bit high for me. if they were half that price i'd probobly be posting pics of it right now. i make pretty good money, I'm single and no kids, just a dog but I am by no means rich with "disposable" income as the guns i have now I consider a nessesity;) , so basically the point I am making is it would be financially irresponsible of me to buy one right now. I suck at saving up for things so thats kinda out of the question. knowing me I'll wake up tomorrow and buy it anyway but I'd still love to hear your opinions.
well with that response and your situation i would say get it, as you probably wont have another chance, and they dont really make them anymore do they? didnt they change them for civilian market?
I've never so much as even handled a 416, much less shot one, so I am wholly unqualified to comment. But I think 4k is about 3k more than it's worth.
That being said, if you like it, then buy it. It's worth what someone is willing to pay. Besides, It'll probably be worth double that amount after the next AWB is passed. :mad: Think of it as an investment opportunity.:D
But I think 4k is about 3k more than it's worth.
Me too.
Also, where are you going to get parts/service? HK will not provide them from what I have seen.
Iraq Ninja
05-30-08, 00:55
I bought one way back when the first set of uppers hit the "Gray Market" and were being sold for 2300. People thought I was crazy, and even HK tried to scare us into returning the "illegal" imported uppers. I sold it last year for 3500 because I could not get spare parts for them.
4000 is way too high IMHO. They can be bought for less, but unless you are a HK collector, I see no reason to get one right now.
In Iraq, you can pick up an HK upper for around $3000, but even I don't have a burning need for one. My trusty colt M4 is my daily work carbine and I have no issues with it, but then again I am just doing PSD.
I have access to spare parts, and I have access to more than one, over 10 actually, so if anyone else wants one let me know. This won't be my go to gun I have no intention of replacing my accurate, reliable, perfectly set up for me gun.
I don't know if they stopped making them but the guy I'd buy it from said he doesn't think they will be importing anymore.
My biggest reason for seriously considering it is I may not be able to get one later. "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush". i just don't wanna miss the opportunity.
So like i said if anyone else wants to get one PM me.
Iraq Ninja
05-30-08, 03:49
My friend, you might need to research this situation.
These uppers are not imported as uppers. They are coming in as part of fully automatic carbines that are being sold to LEO, and will be continued to be imported. The barrels can only be imported as part of a machine gun, as I understand it. That is why HK is planning on making barrels in Wilcox for the MR223.
What is going on, is people are getting a full rifle, often as a sample, and then selling off the upper at a profit.
$4000 is way too high. There was a group buy for $2500 that just ended this month over on the HKpro.com forums. You should go there and read the posts in the 416 forum. There was an upper for sale on Gun broker for 3500 just this month...
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=99021634
I suspect the prices will stay around $3000 since you are buying a completely german made upper and that is important for some collectors, who want a true, HK 416 upper. Most of us will gladly wait for the MR223 if we want a HK piston rifle.
I hope you have plans on getting a SBR stamp, since you will need it. Also, I think there are legal problems if you don't have a stamp, and you have this upper and any AR lower in the same house. I seem to remember a legal case in which someone was found guilty do to this...
Anyhow, if money is not an issue, go for it! But don't do it for the reason that you think they will not be around for very long.
I am going through pains of dealing with HK customer service as we speak, so to say. This is in regards to a "life-time-warranty" covered pistol. I've started on 05.13.08, and since then, I've been unable to get a live person on the phone to talk to.
The point of me posting this is that, if you decided to buy it, you should buy spare parts now and you shouldn't expect much of a help from HK in case your $4000 upper ever malfunctioned. I figure you knew that already; it is just to re-affirm, from a very current experience, that their support of civilian customers remains poor.
I have a couple of SBR'd lowers already. It doesn't matter cause I decided not to buy. I'd rather take more training classes and buy more ammo.
Thanks for clarifying how their importation actually worked, I thought they were only being imported for Military and not LEO, so thanks for clearing it up. The one I fired was a full 416 that belonged to a government employee.
When I thought about it this morning and was completely honest with myself it would have been more of a novelty for me, and 4K is defiantly too much for a novelty. So thanks for the honest input.
Stay safe
FYI Hk will not be making the MR223 in the US - but a semi auto version of the Hk416. The MR223 has a different receiver than the Hk416/M16FOW and is designed for European markets.
IF Hk USA / Wilcox do a MR223 in the US, it will flop, and the real German guns will still command the premium. However I dont think that the civilian guns will be anything less than 16" and as a result the SBR guns will still command their prices.
With Hk you get the piston system that works -- unlike a host of others that would like to work...
My son is a big Hk fan...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Shooting/JHK.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Shooting/JandBeast.jpg
30 cal slut
05-30-08, 12:42
you can buy extended flash hiders to bring the 14.5 inch upper to non-SBR compliance.
Also, where are you going to get parts/service? HK will not provide them from what I have seen.
HK416 parts are available.
Center Mass Firearms sells them everyday.
Bolts & carriers, firing pins, firing pin springs, gas piston parts, buffers, buffer springs, etc.
So i talked to my source and am getting a huge discount!!:D So looks like i'll be getting one after all:D
My friend, you might need to research this situation.
$4000 is way too high. There was a group buy for $2500 that just ended this month over on the HKpro.com forums.
I was the one who was organizing that group buy on HKPro and it did not work out. I spoke with someone at HK who said the uppers could be released and then they backtracked. Refunds went out to GB members this morning actually.
Jake
FYI Hk will not be making the MR223 in the US - but a semi auto version of the Hk416. The MR223 has a different receiver than the Hk416/M16FOW and is designed for European markets.
IF Hk USA / Wilcox do a MR223 in the US, it will flop, and the real German guns will still command the premium. However I dont think that the civilian guns will be anything less than 16" and as a result the SBR guns will still command their prices.
With Hk you get the piston system that works -- unlike a host of others that would like to work...
My son is a big Hk fan...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Shooting/JHK.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Shooting/JandBeast.jpg
Kev, have you actually HEARD nothing shorter than 16? If so, that sucks serious butt. I wanted a short piston gun.
Geeze! 4K for just the upper! buy a couple LMT Piston uppers and save some money. H&k charges to much for that gun!
I posted about the uppers available in the member sales forum, if interested post there.
I have heard that -- but not sure how well placed the source is for me.
From what I heard --
Hk Germany will make two different lines -- the Hk223 and the Hk416 - the MR223 has a different upper and lower than 'normal' M16FOW's and are not interchangeable
As far as US Production goes for 5.56mm guns
Hk Civilian guns = 16" and 20"
Hk LE/MIL - 10.4", 14.5", 16", 20"
I heard some comment about a 18" version but have never seen one. Now I heard nothing about selling uppers seperately, and that would be a huge cash cow for Hk/Wilcox -- especially for those who dont want 'tuetonic perfection' that forbids PMags
I have heard that -- but not sure how well placed the source is for me.
From what I heard --
Hk Germany will make two different lines -- the Hk223 and the Hk416 - the MR223 has a different upper and lower than 'normal' M16FOW's and are not interchangeable
As far as US Production goes for 5.56mm guns
Hk Civilian guns = 16" and 20"
Hk LE/MIL - 10.4", 14.5", 16", 20"
I heard some comment about a 18" version but have never seen one. Now I heard nothing about selling uppers seperately, and that would be a huge cash cow for Hk/Wilcox -- especially for those who dont want 'tuetonic perfection' that forbids PMags
Soooooo any word on a commercial version of the 417? :D
Tspeis
Way beyond anything I know -- It would make sence as the only 7.62 gun that actually works in KAC's and they are hard to get, and really $
a $4-5k 7.62mm gun would sell like hotcakes - especially in a piston with mags that work.
$4000 is way too high. There was a group buy for $2500 that just ended this month over on the HKpro.com forums.
The group buy on HKpro for $2500 never took place--the guy collected the money and then had to refund it.
The group buy on HKpro for $2500 never took place--the guy collected the money and then had to refund it.
I won't take anyones money until I know for a fact it is a go. I won't be dealing with HK directly so while i know I can definetly get them, price is the issue now.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=171636#post171636
Here is the link to the upper sale. If interested please post on that thread, feel free to ask any questions or PM me if you wish to stay anonymous:)
Group Buy closed until we hash out the details.
-Kev
abnartyguy
06-02-08, 03:29
Gent's,
sorry, but now you got me wanting one, lol. Esp after i get back from this contract I might have some extra funds to invest in a new toy... I've seen them on Gunbroker for decent buys but didn't have the expendable income... Anyone still looking at doing a big buy, i might even have a lower stored away in the back of my safe that might look good with a 416 upper one.. hum? Later!
-ZM
:cool:
Army Chief
06-02-08, 04:50
$4,000 for an upper receiver? Even if it is 100% German made, all-HK, etc., you have to ask yourself if ANY upper is worth that kind of expenditure. Is the piston system $4k better than a stock Colt? Is it $4k better than a competing piston upper? The list of questions could go on and on, but at this point, 416 uppers aren't priced anywhere near the practical cut line for the modest (if still quite measurable) reliability gains they deliver.
Granted, I definitely understand the appeal here, and even at $4k, this might be a tempting prospect if we were talking about a complete carbine ... but we aren't. We're talking about an upper that is only marginally superior to several others that are widely available for a fraction of the price.
In terms of pure capability, you would likely be better off buying a few more LE 6920s for a rainy day than to drop that kind of money on what is, to this point, really just a collectors piece in civilian hands. It's not that the 416 upper isn't impressive -- because it is -- but the price is just abysmal.
Chief
$4,000 for an upper receiver? Even if it is 100% German made, all-HK, etc., you have to ask yourself if ANY upper is worth that kind of expenditure. Is the piston system $4k better than a stock Colt? Is it $4k better than a competing piston upper? The list of questions could go on and on, but at this point, 416 uppers aren't priced anywhere near the practical cut line for the modest (if still quite measurable) reliability gains they deliver.
Granted, I definitely understand the appeal here, and even at $4k, this might be a tempting prospect if we were talking about a complete carbine ... but we aren't. We're talking about an upper that is only marginally superior to several others that are widely available for a fraction of the price.
In terms of pure capability, you would likely be better off buying a few more LE 6920s for a rainy day than to drop that kind of money on what is, to this point, really just a collectors piece in civilian hands. It's not that the 416 upper isn't impressive -- because it is -- but the price is just abysmal.
Chief
I agree completely. 4K is alot for an upper, any upper. From my point of view, I have enough rifles to cover anything I might need the only thing I don't have is a piston system, and this is the only one I'd be interested in. If I can get them for 3K I am definetly doing it, but it's worth will be different for everybody.
Quite frankly Hk's piston is head and shoulders (at the very least) of the next best systems out there.
Units may by 25 or so other the other systems to trial -- but when major orders come in -- they are for the Hk 416's.
For 99% of the users out there a Colt M4/M4A1 or LE6920 will fill the bill. However make no mistake the HK system is not just a bit better, it is leaps and bounds -- however most end users do not run their systems with suppressors or shoot a hundred k a year of bullets downrange.
Frankly for me the Hk lower hold no value - I can get a POF pictogram lower -- or I can get a custom made factory SBR lower if I really want too from some other manufactuers. Having a Hk lower that does not take PMAGS's holds no interest for me.
As much as I would love to get a 416 upper, I am concerned that if I had any problems with it I would be SOL, since as someone not buying it through an agency from HK, it would essentially be a gray market item.
Here is a link to an agency who bought 416s directly from HK and had problems. What would happen if these uppers were sold to individuals who bought them as gray market items?
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=67759&an=0&page=0#67759
As much as I would love to get a 416 upper, I am concerned that if I had any problems with it I would be SOL, since as someone not buying it through an agency from HK, it would essentially be a gray market item.
Here is a link to an agency who bought 416s directly from HK and had problems. What would happen if these uppers were sold to individuals who bought them as gray market items?
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=67759&an=0&page=0#67759
There are several sources for parts if you look around. Besides I don't think anybody buys an HK with any consideration of CS. i have 4 HK's and I don't ever plan to contact HK for any reason, if I have a problem with one of their guns I'll find another means of resolving it. I've never for that matter sent a gun back to a manufacturer for any reason, if I had a problem I would fix it myself.
As much as I would love to get a 416 upper, I am concerned that if I had any problems with it I would be SOL, since as someone not buying it through an agency from HK, it would essentially be a gray market item.
Here is a link to an agency who bought 416s directly from HK and had problems. What would happen if these uppers were sold to individuals who bought them as gray market items?
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=67759&an=0&page=0#67759
If you as an individual civilian owner are having problems with an HK416 upper, you can send it to HK's Columbus facility for repairs or servicing. I confirmed this with HK yesterday.
I will echo Warrior's comments in that I too prefer to fix things myself rather than go through a manufacturer (if possible). That goes for any manufacturer, not just HK. For what it's worth, my experiences with HK have been positive so I can't knock their CS.
Tspeis
If you as an individual civilian owner are having problems with an HK416 upper, you can send it to HK's Columbus facility for repairs or servicing. I confirmed this with HK yesterday.
Tspeis
Wow, thats great news.
Not that I will probably ever need it, but it's nice to know.
So much for the Internet's claims of "HK bad customer service". :)
Wow I am surprised! Thats good to hear. FWIW I've never had even a slight problem with their guns as their quality has never been in question so wether or not they do have CS isn't really hurtin them.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.