View Full Version : Newly configured Remy 700, First Outing
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/guns/IMG_0449_zps66edd28a.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/guns/IMG_0449_zps66edd28a.jpg.html)
Remington Model 700 SPS Tactical AAC-SD, .308
Bell & Carlson Medalist 2 stock
Timney 510 trigger set to 3lb.
Trijicon TR23-2, 5-20x50 glass
This was the first time out with this set up, I had zeroed at 50yds with the stock trigger but got less than stellar groups at 200yds. I installed the Timney trigger about a month ago but had not gotten it to the range until today.
50yd zero verify
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/misc/IMG_8965_zps99b6cee5.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/misc/IMG_8965_zps99b6cee5.jpg.html)
7 rounds at 50 yards
200yards for group
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/misc/IMG_5324_zpse15cb3c0.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/misc/IMG_5324_zpse15cb3c0.jpg.html)
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/misc/IMG_2362_zps1e4f6e63.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/misc/IMG_2362_zps1e4f6e63.jpg.html)
10 rounds at 200 yards.
I'm not sure why the first two shots were dead center then the group moved right, but the two outliers were called. They were the last two shots of the group. The closer of the two was me slacking off the rear bag just as the trigger broke. The farthest(last shot) was me slapping the trigger.
The group, sans the two flyers is 1.545" well under MOA. Even with the outliers this is the best grouping from this rifle to date.
Not sniper ready yet but far better than I was able to do with the stock X-Mark trigger
I'm extremely happy with this rifle as it sits. I was going to send the action out for truing but I may wait now to see if I can start out shooting the gun.
nice! i assume you could see the hits and know the first two were in center and they were drifting right? my guess is there was a little wind
It's possible that it was the wind but I doubt it. The wind was light and head on, maybe up to 5MPH. There wasn't really any "drift", after the first two shots the group to the right was quite random, then two hiccups. It's more likely that I just didn't have the parallax adjusted perfectly and got a slightly different weld on the first two shots.
FYI the load being shot was:
168gn Nosler Custom Competition
45gn Varget
New Hornady Match Brass
Winchester primers
COAL 2.75
platoonDaddy
04-19-14, 00:59
Just curious, did you delay between each shot and if so for how long?
dmaxfireman
04-19-14, 06:06
I used to have groups like that with my aac-sd in an HS Precision stock. First 2-3 shots would be great then the group would open up high and right, EVERY TIME. I was about to give up on it and sell it and try again, but a friend recommended that I skim bed the action. The aluminum bedding block only makes 2 points of contact at about 5 and 7 oclock on the HS Precision stock not sure about your BC. I put it off for a while but eventually got so pissed at the gun that I did it and re-torqued evenly and my groups were cut in half if not better and are VERY repeatable. I think its well worth the time and materials to skim bed your rifle. And make sure that you evenly torque the action when you reassemble.
Just curious, did you delay between each shot and if so for how long?
I certainly didn't shoot "rapid fire", but I didn't wait long enough for the barrel to cool completely between shots by any stretch. Maybe five minutes total for the 10 shots. The barrel was quite warm but not uncomfortable to grab when I finished. I don't know how much it may have effected the group.
dmaxfireman,
I have the Devcon to skim bed the action but I haven't had the time to even consider it to date. I also wanted to give the B&C stock a chance on it's own first. I don't have even close to enough trigger time on this yet to start to diagnose the grouping. I've also been informed by another member here that Nosler CC bullets are not the best choice for this gun. He suggested 172gn SMK for precision. I still have a couple hundred of the 168 CCs so it may be a while before I can justify getting any SMK.
dmaxfireman
04-19-14, 08:27
There's another problem I have. I have high cheekbones so in turn my eye sits lower than the average person. Even with a 40mm objective and low rings I still needed a cheek riser to get consistent weld. Try closing your eyes and get into your shooting position and get a cheek weld that feels natural, then open your eye and see how far off you are vertically.
I think I'm going to set an evening aside to skim bed this rifle. I hit the 200 yard range again this afternoon and was not happy with the results. Maybe I'm expecting too much from my skills but I shot two 10 round groups and neither were spectacular to say the least.
I took a few extra minutes to dial the parallax in as good as I could get it and worked on getting the same cheek weld every time.
No called flyers. Every shot felt good. Again, the first two shots were dead nuts and then ... well you see the and then. This was slow fire(very slow for me) I timed at least 2min. between shots and practiced dry fire with a snap cap between rounds, looking for movement on the reticle as the trigger broke. Everything looked solid and as I said the shots "felt" good.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/misc/IMG_3251_zps4c56b34e.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/misc/IMG_3251_zps4c56b34e.jpg.html)
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/misc/IMG_8152_zps18569a26.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/misc/IMG_8152_zps18569a26.jpg.html)
This group was shot in about 2 minutes. No delay between shots but I did not rush the sight alignment or the trigger press. Again, the first round was in the bull's eye.
but far better than I was able to do with the stock X-Mark trigger
You don't realize how bad the X mark is until you try shooting paper at 200 or more yards. I can remember dry firing on the bench and watching my reticle bounce with that damned thing.
dmaxfireman
04-21-14, 11:30
You don't realize how bad the X mark is until you try shooting paper at 200 or more yards. I can remember dry firing on the bench and watching my reticle bounce with that damned thing.
Second this.... My xmark absolutely sucked. It would never break consistently every shot felt significantly different.
dmaxfireman
04-27-14, 19:29
Any updates on how the skim bedding worked for you?
Haven't got to it yet. Hopefully I'll be able to get it done this week sometime. I'll post up pics and the range results.
I've done just the recoil lug area on another (junk) stock before I got the B&C but this will be the my first full bedding job. This promises to be interesting.
I bedded the 700 this evening. I'll get some pics up after I clean it up tomorrow and hopefully get to the range later this week.
Here's the bedded stock.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/guns/IMG_3152_zps327a7709.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/guns/IMG_3152_zps327a7709.jpg.html)
Everything looks good in the recoil lug area.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/guns/IMG_5140_zpsf518c85f.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/guns/IMG_5140_zpsf518c85f.jpg.html)
And the Devcon is nice and even down the length of the action.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/guns/IMG_8588_zpscb7b0d0f.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/guns/IMG_8588_zpscb7b0d0f.jpg.html)
But there's a spot at the rear mount that was not even.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/guns/IMG_5408_zps5c199774.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/guns/IMG_5408_zps5c199774.jpg.html)
I really thought I had more than enough epoxy and got good roll out everywhere but there is a definite hollow spot there. It looks like there is enough for good support and the edge looks even when the action is installed so I think I'll leave well enough alone until I can get it to the range.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/guns/IMG_4234_zpsa1de3d48.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/guns/IMG_4234_zpsa1de3d48.jpg.html)
I'm afraid that if I try to fill that void I'll end up creating a high point and causing stress when the action is torqued in.
Any thoughts?
See how it groups before you do any thing else.
platoonDaddy
05-11-14, 18:03
See how it groups before you do any thing else.
For sure first test it out.
Arkansas Bob
05-11-14, 18:28
It's possible that it was the wind but I doubt it. The wind was light and head on, maybe up to 5MPH. There wasn't really any "drift", after the first two shots the group to the right was quite random, then two hiccups. It's more likely that I just didn't have the parallax adjusted perfectly and got a slightly different weld on the first two shots.
FYI the load being shot was:
168gn Nosler Custom Competition
45gn Varget
New Hornady Match Brass
Winchester primers
OAL 1.75
What is your COAL? Noslers in my remington 308s have generally done much better when loaded longer. My hunting loads are 165 accubond at 2.83, match kings aren't as picky and I typically load them to 2.80
dmaxfireman
05-11-14, 18:56
Looks good, don't worry too much about the rear tang yet. Make sure when you torque the action screws you actually use a torque wrench and run them in evenly alternating sides.
This is my current load that very closely replicates the FGMM load in velocity and accuracy when fired from my aac-sd
175gr SMK
Once fired FGMM brass trimmed to 2.005
2.81 COAL
42.5gr 8208xbr
CCI large rifle primer
What is your COAL? Noslers in my remington 308s have generally done much better when loaded longer. My hunting loads are 165 accubond at 2.83, match kings aren't as picky and I typically load them to 2.80
COAL was 2.75(1.75 in OP is a typo I just noticed).
Looks good, don't worry too much about the rear tang yet. Make sure when you torque the action screws you actually use a torque wrench and run them in evenly alternating sides.
This is my current load that very closely replicates the FGMM load in velocity and accuracy when fired from my aac-sd
175gr SMK
Once fired FGMM brass trimmed to 2.005
2.81 COAL
42.5gr 8208xbr
CCI large rifle primer
Yep, torqued to 60inch pounds, evenly.
I'll be picking some SMK shortly. I still have quite a few of the 168 Nosslers on hand and can't justify to the CFO buying more before they are gone!
I finally got back to the range. Same loads as before. Two 10 round groups at 200yds. It was a bit windier today but still a head wind and my eyes seemed to fatigue quickly. Next time I'll go out early rather than after a day in the shop.
First group, slow fire, about 2 minutes between shots.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/misc/IMG_4305_zpsf99b1d94.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/misc/IMG_4305_zpsf99b1d94.jpg.html)
Second group, no delay between shots
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/misc/IMG_7203_zpsf638a95f.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/misc/IMG_7203_zpsf638a95f.jpg.html)
These groups are more representative of my skill(or lack there of) as a shooter rather than any limitation or quirk of the rifle. I need more practice and maybe some professional help but the stick is doing it's job. I think I'll keep it.
What magnification setting do you use while shooting 200yd groups?
If you run high magnification, you might benefit from turning the scope down a bit. I generally shoot close range groups (100-200yds) at no more than 10x. There is less reticle movement on the target which lets you focus more on fundamentals than keeping the cross hair perfectly aligned.
I've been cranking to 20x as I don't have a decent spotting scope. I just didn't want to dick around changing things to check my hits so I just maxed the mag out from the get go.
I'll give it a shot at a lower power.
20x at 200yds is far too much zoom. Back it down by half and you might be surprised at the results.
I picked up some 175gn SMKs today so the next range trip I'll be working up a new load as well.
Any suggested starting points?
dmaxfireman
05-27-14, 21:51
This is my current load that very closely replicates the FGMM load in velocity and accuracy when fired from my aac-sd
175gr SMK
Once fired FGMM brass trimmed to 2.005
2.81 COAL
42.5gr 8208xbr
CCI large rifle primer
Try this. 8208 is very consistent
I picked up some 175gn SMKs today so the next range trip I'll be working up a new load as well.
Any suggested starting points?
I load 175 SMK's over 42.5 grains of IMR 4064 in Lake City brass. I load to 2.81 as well. It's pretty much a mix of FGMM and M118LR.
I didn't have the extra $ for more powder so I went with Varget again. I loaded 50 test rounds, 5 rounds each starting at 42.3gn up to 45gn in .3gn increments, COAL 2.94(.01 jump), 175 SMK. I still have 40 rounds of the 168gn Nosler CC to shoot as well.
I'm going to try for Wednesday morning on the range, weather permitting.
Try a different target and less magnification. Like a simple white paper and black square on 10x. That way when you are shooting you won't be distracted by the holes. Just concentrate on your shooting. Then at the end of the string, dial it up to 20x to check it out.
If it is an option, you could have a known good shooter shoot it. If someone is shooting under 1" at 200 with their rifle consistently, then if they get 2.5" in yours, it would confirm that is the rifle and/or that load. If they print 1.5" 10 shot groups, then it is you.
I dug out my old reloading records for my Remington 700VLS with 1:12 barrel. I had a 3.5x10 Leupold MKIII scope on the rifle and the only modification was bedding the action to the wood stock. I loaded either 42.0g of Varget or 40.5g of H4895 with a 168g SMK at 2.800" C.O.L.. The loads chronographed between 2570 fps and 2580 fps. Shooting 2" ten shot groups at 300 yards was the norm and I did not allow the barrel to cool between shots.
1) Try loading the bipod before each shot. The same amount of forward pressure should be your goal.
2) Try placing the pad of your trigger finger opposite the quick of the fingernail on the trigger and the thumb of your shooting hand on or behind the tang of the receiver. Resist the urge to roll the thumb on your shooting hand over the stock.
3) If you see too much movement in the scope, try dialing the power down to 10 or 12 and see if that tightens up your shot groups. It's worked for me and a few people I taught over the years.
4) The shooting position I used for shooting CMP High Power matches with the M1A did not work as well when shooting with a scoped bolt action rifle. Try squaring your body up behind the rifle when building your shooting position. Squaring up behind the rifle helped me when I moved on to shooting 1,000 yards.
The list of things that help me is lengthy, but these 4 tips have helped me the most. I got most of them from other bolt action shooters when I was getting my feet wet.
I finally got back to the range.
Here are the best two groups out of 10 5 shot groups with .3 grain powder increase per group. I shot these all with the scope dialed to 10x and there was a very light head wind, so the windage is all me. I pulled a bore snake through every 15 rounds and let the barrel cool after every 15 rounds for about 1/2 hour.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/misc/IMG_8462_zpsb7470ade.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/misc/IMG_8462_zpsb7470ade.jpg.html)
42.9 grains Varget
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/misc/IMG_8781_zps6700d2fa.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/misc/IMG_8781_zps6700d2fa.jpg.html)
42.6 grains Varget
Here's a load that this rifle just does not like!
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/misc/IMG_0951_zps02666e41.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/misc/IMG_0951_zps02666e41.jpg.html)
180gn Lapua HPBT w/42 grains Varget
And here is a 10 shot group with the 168gn CC loads from the first two outings. No cleaning and fairly quick fire.
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/misc/IMG_1107_zpse334c667.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/misc/IMG_1107_zpse334c667.jpg.html)
This measures at 2.07 " spread.
I'll do some playing with bullet depth next just for kicks but I think I'm going to go with 42.9gn Varget for the 175 SMK rounds until I get something different to tinker with.
My Remington liked 0.010" bullet jump with 168g and 175g projectiles. Yours may or may not like it.
After I foul the barrel, I don't pull a Bore Snake through the bore or do any other cleaning unless I am testing different powders.
You shot some good groups. Maybe your Remington 1:12 twist barrel is not quite fast enough to stabilize 180g bullets.
It's 1:10 but I also have never done any work up with the Lapua pills. I picked them up cheap at a gun show a while back and just loaded these from Lyman's 48th data. Middle of the road charge and old oxidized bullets, I'm not putting any real value on this data.
Roger that. A 1:10 barrel should spin 180g projectiles nicely. Sometimes finding the optimum C.O.L. for a particular projectile takes a bit of testing.
BTW,
200 yards, bench from bags not bipod.
dmaxfireman
06-13-14, 18:27
BTW,
200 yards, bench from bags not bipod.
Much better than when you started! Now, if it were me, I would get a couple boxes of 168 and 175 FGMM and see how those group before messing with anymore reloads. You need to remove your variables in the ammo with a known quality great grouping load so you know what you and the gun are capable of. Then work up your reload.
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