View Full Version : Glock 19 gen 2
Phillygunguy
04-19-14, 20:34
Ok I know I posted about moving away from Glock, But I actually found a hard to find glock 19 gen 2. with Austrian markings too, so I snatched up. Judging buy the serial # on the bbl, the prefix is DR with 3 digits, along with the Austrian proof markings and ZTT from what I gathered it was manufactured in 1988.
and maybe hard to find too, Anyway, I noticed it has pre "upgrade parts"
which I read about was a 6 point upgrade. Anyway as you can guess, Where can I get these upgrade parts? I was able to buy a few on glockparts.net I don't want to send into glock. as they'll just replace the slide
and new parts and bring back brass to face. I was wandering If I should just put in newer parts or is there "new old Parts" to replace with I like to keep the original recoil spring assembly , but they don't seem to replace the old ones with removable springs. Also there is a Pre EH trigger bar on glockparts.net they sell, but Is that the right upgrade? Should I just go with newer parts?, If anyone can give me feed back Id appreciate it sorry for the long drawn out post
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You should Glock a call. I'm pretty sure they will just send you the upgrade parts if you give a serial number. And I'm not a hundred percent, but I don't believe brass to the face would be an issue, as the slides with straight cut at the extractor cannot use the late Gen3/Gen4 extractor.
I've been down this road. A year or so ago i bought a proof-maked KMxxx serial number that never had the upgrade. If i had to do it all over, i'd just buy the parts i need from a parts retailer.
Calling Glock will only verify if your serial number has ever been sent the (free) parts upgrade. If your number is clean, they will advise you to go see a Certified Glock Armorer, and have them order the parts for you. Glock will not send them to anyone other than a Glock armorer.
Like you, i didn't want a new extraction BTF system. I wanted an old Gen 2 for bomb-proof reliability and predictable extraction/ejection patterns, so i was looking to mix in some new safety parts and keep the old bearing/rod/extractor.
I had a nightmare of an experience getting the 'free' parts.. Glock certified armorers will want to charge for the 'parts replacement labor', so good luck finding one that will just hand them over to you. I didn't want to pay for something i can do myself, and i didn't want to buy a $45 striker.... i was too cheap, but i learned my lesson. Besides, all i wound up using from the upgrade kit was the striker and firing pin safety + spring. Since it came with an unknown round-count, i went bought all new springs (frame, bearing, recoil), a Gen4 DOT connector (my personal favorite), and new G17 trigger bar. I also got a set Ameriglo Defoor sights and Vickers slide & mag release too.
My last nugget of advise (since it's old & used)... is to clean the shit of the slide. Literally, mine was filthy. Use regular and long wood handled q-tips to pull out all of the gunk hiding down your striker and bearing rod channels, along with the extractor cavity. Once clean, rinse with alcohol, do not lube any of those areas when finished. You may already have done that, but just in case, i thought i'd mention that too.
I hope that helps.
~OG
My understanding is that since the "upgrade" was the result of a NY cop's duty 19 slam-firing when chambered, Glock only gives the free "upgrade" if the armorer keeps all the old parts. Unfortunately they are some of the most expensive parts. But, if you want to keep the old ones, you have to buy new ones and do it yourself. I picked up a Dec. 1990 17 and just replaced all the internals--the only original parts are the frame, barrel, slide, and extractor, since it is cast vs. MIM. Overkill? Maybe... At the bare minimum I'd upgrade the striker/striker safety plunger, trigger housing, and all the springs.
Phillygunguy
04-20-14, 03:54
Thanks for the responses, That last picture is with my gen 3 which gives me btf, I was thinking of swaping out the parts that are needed for the upgrade, EXCEPT the extractor, just not sure if they would all fit being its 26 years old
walkin' trails
04-20-14, 05:32
I had a post-upgrade 19 I bought back in 92. BTF was never an issue.
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Phillygunguy
04-20-14, 06:57
I've been down this road. A year or so ago i bought a proof-maked KMxxx serial number that never had the upgrade. If i had to do it all over, i'd just buy the parts i need from a parts retailer.
Calling Glock will only verify if your serial number has ever been sent the (free) parts upgrade. If your number is clean, they will advise you to go see a Certified Glock Armorer, and have them order the parts for you. Glock will not send them to anyone other than a Glock armorer.
Like you, i didn't want a new extraction BTF system. I wanted an old Gen 2 for bomb-proof reliability and predictable extraction/ejection patterns, so i was looking to mix in some new safety parts and keep the old bearing/rod/extractor.
I had a nightmare of an experience getting the 'free' parts.. Glock certified armorers will want to charge for the 'parts replacement labor', so good luck finding one that will just hand them over to you. I didn't want to pay for something i can do myself, and i didn't want to buy a $45 striker.... i was too cheap, but i learned my lesson. Besides, all i wound up using from the upgrade kit was the striker and firing pin safety + spring. Since it came with an unknown round-count, i went bought all new springs (frame, bearing, recoil), a Gen4 DOT connector (my personal favorite), and new G17 trigger bar. I also got a set Ameriglo Defoor sights and Vickers slide & mag release too.
My last nugget of advise (since it's old & used)... is to clean the shit of the slide. Literally, mine was filthy. Use regular and long wood handled q-tips to pull out all of the gunk hiding down your striker and bearing rod channels, along with the extractor cavity. Once clean, rinse with alcohol, do not lube any of those areas when finished. You may already have done that, but just in case, i thought i'd mention that too.
I hope that helps.
~OG
Thanks There was a lot of gunk built up so definitely gotta clean, btw, I can't seem to get the damn firing pin safety to fall free from the slide, any ideas on how to remedy this?
Phillygunguy
04-20-14, 07:14
You should Glock a call. I'm pretty sure they will just send you the upgrade parts if you give a serial number. And I'm not a hundred percent, but I don't believe brass to the face would be an issue, as the slides with straight cut at the extractor cannot use the late Gen3/Gen4 extractor.
I get that, but I'll bet you dollars to donuts Glock in thier infinite wisdow will want me to send it in so they can slap on a brand new slide, and I can get slapped in the face with brass.
Thanks There was a lot of gunk built up so definitely gotta clean, btw, I can't seem to get the damn firing pin safety to fall free from the slide, any ideas on how to remedy this?
In case you don't know, you have to remove the extractor first. If it's still stuck, the it's probably pretty well gunked up. Soaking it in some cleaner would help, but like others have said, make sure the slide is dry before reassembling.
Thanks for the responses, That last picture is with my gen 3 which gives me btf, I was thinking of swaping out the parts that are needed for the upgrade, EXCEPT the extractor, just not sure if they would all fit being its 26 years old
The 6PU kit won't have all of the proper parts to go into your Gen3, and those that do come included won't help address any BTF issues.
Call glockparts.com and just buy the parts from them. They're great people to buy from.
You may need a different trigger bar to avoid full auto.
Good luck with the BTF, Glocks have been doing that forever, people just started bitching about it 4 years ago.
mkmckinley
04-20-14, 09:03
I have the exact postol you describe with the Austrian proof marks and everything. After reading this I'm still a little unclear. Which parts are worth swapping out, exactly?
A few points...
Be busy about shooting guns and seeing what they do, rather than BTF hysteria.
Your gun is an early G19, and has some other subtle differences unique to that early range in addition to those addressed by the pre-EH upgrade. Contact Glock to see if it's been back already.
Sourcing your parts outside of Glock, Inc may get you OEM parts. Or not. Consider that.
A new slide is not required, sending your gun in won't get you a new slide. You can opt to have your slide machined to the updated dims if you like, but it's not a compulsory process.
When updating/repairing 90/0 guns in the recent past I was still receiving the older tool-steel non-LCI style extractor. If you're worried about that, request that particular part and see what you get.
Short: Call Glock or a credible armorer to ensure that your gun is in the current, recomended, factory spec condition.
Phillygunguy
04-20-14, 12:53
In case you don't know, you have to remove the extractor first. If it's still stuck, the it's probably pretty well gunked up. Soaking it in some cleaner would help, but like others have said, make sure the slide is dry before reassembling.
Yep I'm well aware about removing the extractor first, The thing is loose enough but isn't coming out
You can opt to have your slide machined to the updated dims if you like, but it's not a compulsory process.
Does Glock do this at the factory? My 17 has been reliable, but a bit weak on ejection, and I've always wished that Apex made a 90 degree extractor...this might be a solution (or could invite all sorts of new problems...thoughts?)
When updating/repairing 90/0 guns in the recent past I was still receiving the older tool-steel non-LCI style extractor. If you're worried about that, request that particular part and see what you get.
Where have you been getting these? I ordered my last one through glockparts, I believe, and it appears to be MIM. I'd love to get a few post-"update" tool steel 90 extractors for my spare kits, if you're willing to point me in the right direction. Thanks!
Phillygunguy
04-20-14, 13:04
Skintop, I appreciate what you're telling me, The btf isn't hysteria, its annoying and gotten to the point where I almost developed a damn flinch from anticipated hot brass in my face. I do shot a lot, and take classes with some SMEs too, My concern for this gen 2 glock is just getting the right parts for it because as I understand Glock required it. and I dont want the risk of a slam fire even if rare.
Phillygunguy
04-20-14, 13:15
Mkmckinley, The parts that glock required in the 1992 upgrade They required a replacement of trigger bar, extractor, firing pin, firing pin safety, spring loaded bearing. because there was a slam fire reported by the NYPD while an officer loaded his gun.
Phillygunguy
04-20-14, 13:21
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Phillygunguy
04-20-14, 13:25
Call glockparts.com and just buy the parts from them. They're great people to buy from.
You may need a different trigger bar to avoid full auto.
Good luck with the BTF, Glocks have been doing that forever, people just started bitching about it 4 years ago.
Really ? People have been saying its a new phenomenon? I don't think its normal for every other round, maybe once in a while
Phillygunguy
04-20-14, 13:26
Thanks for your input everyone
You should send it in to the factory. Older (Gen1 and Gen2) guns should have the relief cut done to the frame. Can only be done at the factory. It helps lengthen the life of the frame. Removes the stress one of the flex points of the frame. The factory won't do the 15 degree mill cut to the slide unless you request it. You'll get it back with a 90 degree extractor.
Phillygunguy
04-20-14, 14:15
You should send it in to the factory. Older (Gen1 and Gen2) guns should have the relief cut done to the frame. Can only be done at the factory. It helps lengthen the life of the frame. Removes the stress one of the flex points of the frame. The factory won't do the 15 degree mill cut to the slide unless you request it. You'll get it back with a 90 degree extractor.
I have no interest in having the frame re milled out or whatever just the upgraded parts to make it safe that's all
I have no interest in having the frame re milled out or whatever just the upgraded parts to make it safe that's all
Whatever bro. I've seen more than my share of Gen2 G19 frames fail from not having the relief cut. Glock will warranty a new frame for you when yours does. Just won't be a Gen2 frame when you get it back.
Phillygunguy
04-20-14, 18:00
Whatever bro. I've seen more than my share of Gen2 G19 frames fail from not having the relief cut. Glock will warranty a new frame for you when yours does. Just won't be a Gen2 frame when you get it back.
When they came out with the upgraded parts, Glock did not require people to have their guns sen tto the factory to have a relief cut , they sent in the parts and had them replaced by an armorer.
I Had a early gen 3 glock 17 that I got used, the slide cracked I told them to keep the original extractor and internals, and they told me no It all had to be changed out, they replaced everything and once again I had erratic ejections Thats why I dont trust sending it to them.
The Dumb Gun Collector
04-20-14, 18:04
I just got rid of my old Gen 2 G19 because it had terrible BTF.
Phillygunguy
04-20-14, 18:05
Ill give glock a call tomorrow to see what they say, But have a feeling its going to be me sending to them and giving me a new slide and back to square one
Phillygunguy
04-20-14, 18:07
I just got rid of my old Gen 2 G19 because it had terrible BTF.
that dosent sound promising except Im not having BTF with mine so far I just dont want it to happen because glock changed everything over to a new slide
The Dumb Gun Collector
04-20-14, 18:30
G19s HATE me. I have no idea why. I have always had terrible luck with them. G17s less so and G26s love me.
When they came out with the upgraded parts, Glock did not require people to have their guns sen tto the factory to have a relief cut , they sent in the parts and had them replaced by an armorer.
Those are two separate issues. See here for more info on the relief cut: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1508967
You can lead people to water but you can't make them drink. Maybe you should just buy one of these (http://jimenezarmsinc.com/janine.htm)...
Phillygunguy
04-20-14, 19:13
You can lead people to water but you can't make them drink. Maybe you should just buy one of these (http://jimenezarmsinc.com/janine.htm)...
No maybe I should just buy more HKs all the money I waste on glock I could have bought another P 30
No maybe I should just buy more HKs
Cool! I'll give you $200 for the G19.
Phillygunguy
04-20-14, 19:20
Cool! I'll give you $200 for the G19.
for you $500
LOL Good luck with that. I have two already thanks.
Phillygunguy
04-20-14, 19:25
Those are two separate issues. See here for more info on the relief cut: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1508967
I see I dont care about the frame right now If worse case scenario ill get it done But with my luck theyll change out the slide too and Ill be back to BTF again
Phillygunguy
04-20-14, 19:28
LOL Good luck with that. I have two already thanks.
I was kidding Im not really interested in selling it
Phillygunguy
04-20-14, 19:31
As I mentioned earlier ILL give glock a call tomorrow Skintop1911 made some good points as did a few others
As I mentioned earlier ILL give glock a call tomorrow Skintop1911 made some good points as did a few others
Hmmm. I haven't heard about frame relief cuts, so i'll have to take a look at mine tonight.
And here's some more worthless advice: If my gun goes back to Glock, i'm going to keep the old extraction parts that i want (bearing, rod, extractor, trigger housing), and replace them with new OEM Gen2 versions. Then (for me) i'd reinstall all the other old parts back in it... then send it off. Let them check the frame relief and replace all of the parts they want. I'd be happy with that, i'd still have my original extraction/ejection system to fall back on.
Phillygunguy
04-21-14, 13:28
So called glock I told them about my situation, they said either send the gun in to do the work with a letter explaining what I needed or theyll send the parts to a certified glock armorer. I mentioned the relief cuts in the frame and the Guy Had no idea what I was talking about So I may send it in anyway
Phillygunguy
04-21-14, 13:33
Hmmm. I haven't heard about frame relief cuts, so i'll have to take a look at mine tonight.
And here's some more worthless advice: If my gun goes back to Glock, i'm going to keep the old extraction parts that i want (bearing, rod, extractor, trigger housing), and replace them with new OEM Gen2 versions. Then (for me) i'd reinstall all the other old parts back in it... then send it off. Let them check the frame relief and replace all of the parts they want. I'd be happy with that, i'd still have my original extraction/ejection system to fall back on.
some of those are the parts that need replacing . as long as they don't replace the slide it should be ok the issues of btf also have to deal with the ejection port window, at least thats what others on here have told me
some of those are the parts that need replacing . as long as they don't replace the slide it should be ok the issues of btf also have to deal with the ejection port window, at least thats what others on here have told me
Although I still stand by my advise as worthless, lol, I respectfully disagree with you. None of the old parts I'm keeping have anything to do with slam-firing, but everything to do with ejection/extraction. I shot it a lot as stock, when i got it, and saw that i had consistent brass patterning and decided to keep all of those inner workings as-is and just replace the trigger bar/connector/striker/striker block (and freshen all springs). My Gen 2 19 is my CC, shoots great, and I still have consistent brass throws away from my face.
Phillygunguy
04-21-14, 21:12
Although I still stand by my advise as worthless, lol, I respectfully disagree with you. None of the old parts I'm keeping have anything to do with slam-firing, but everything to do with ejection/extraction. I shot it a lot as stock, when i got it, and saw that i had consistent brass patterning and decided to keep all of those inner workings as-is and just replace the trigger bar/connector/striker/striker block (and freshen all springs). My Gen 2 19 is my CC, shoots great, and I still have consistent brass throws away from my face.
I understand, but the upgrade parts are what Glock recommended back in 1992 some in here think the change in the slide cut of the ejection port maybe the reason for btf as opposed to the parts, but no one really knows for sure
I understand, but the upgrade parts are what Glock recommended back in 1992 some in here think the change in the slide cut of the ejection port maybe the reason for btf as opposed to the parts, but no one really knows for sure
They (Glock) will not mess with your slide unless there's a problem (cracked etc..). They'll just upgrade the parts to current spec for that model.
Phillygunguy
04-23-14, 18:51
They (Glock) will not mess with your slide unless there's a problem (cracked etc..). They'll just upgrade the parts to current spec for that model.
You know I when I called glock as I mentioned above I asked about the relief cuts in the frame and the Tech I spoke with didnt know anything about it any suggestions?
AIM has gen 2 trade-ins in stock for anyone who's interested. They seem a little expensive but might be worth it to some.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1Glk19GEN2&name=Glock+19+9mm+Gen+2+Used+Law+Enforcement+Trade+In&groupid=3
All I can tell you from a guy who owns two and carries carries a gen2 G19 daily, you can't go wrong sending it to the factory. Gen2 19s are my favorite Gocks hands down.
Phillygunguy
04-23-14, 20:07
All I can tell you from a guy who owns two and carries carries a gen2 G19 daily, you can't go wrong sending it to the factory. Gen2 19s are my favorite Gocks hands down.
Right Im going to send it to the factory I agree and 19s are awesome probably the best conceal carry pistol
I ll mention the relief cuts it to them if they dont do it then I dont know
kantstudien
04-24-14, 02:47
Relief cuts in the frame? No such thing.
Relief cuts in the frame? No such thing.
Yes, there is such a thing. Right behind the locking block.
Nocalsocal
04-24-14, 20:55
I had no idea that there were relief cuts in my sn# ASPxxx Gen. 2 Glock 19. But I believe these are the cuts.2540725408
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I couple years ago I bought a very early G19 with Austrian proof marks. It had all the original black trigger parts. I found a local Glock armorer to order the replacement parts, but he had to install them for me. Ended costing me around $30 IIRC. He allowed me to keep the old parts. It shoots like a dream (shot like a dream with the original black parts too.) Mine does not have the relief cuts in the frame which concerns me a little, but I think if I stay away from +P ammo it will probably last longer than me.
Call glockparts.com and just buy the parts from them. They're great people to buy from.
You may need a different trigger bar to avoid full auto.
Good luck with the BTF, Glocks have been doing that forever, people just started bitching about it 4 years ago.
Ive noticed that too. I have many older gen 1s and gen 2s that occasionally send brass backwards. Glocks have always had fairly weak ejection. WHen the new glock BTF complaning started I was like WTF?
ETA: I do feel that some of the newer Glocks do it much more frequently
I had no idea that there were relief cuts in my sn# ASPxxx Gen. 2 Glock 19. But I believe these are the cuts.2540725408
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
That is correct.
Phillygunguy
04-30-14, 12:44
Well Just dropped of my glock at the Dealer I bought it from and will be sending to the factory with letter enclosed
Mkmckinley, The parts that glock required in the 1992 upgrade They required a replacement of trigger bar, extractor, firing pin, firing pin safety, spring loaded bearing. because there was a slam fire reported by the NYPD while an officer loaded his gun.
Was this ever a real problem?? I have a early Gen2 19 that has not had the upgrade parts yet.
Phillygunguy
04-30-14, 13:56
Was this ever a real problem?? I have a early Gen2 19 that has not had the upgrade parts yet.
Glock was the one who recommended it
Did you shoot it while it was in your possession?
Phillygunguy
04-30-14, 15:19
it=OldGreg;1905553]Did you shoot it while it was in your possession?[/QUOTE]
me ? yes briefly then I read about glocks recommended upgrade for saftey concerns then I just sent it to the factory
PGG
I have in my possession a early G19.....prefix BCMxxx that I ordered a upgrade kit. I was going to assign it to our Chief. I became an armorer in 2000 and was unaware of frame mods on early Glocks.
We were issued G21s in 92 and 93 and I recall getting dinked in the face alot with brass.
I am interested if they modify the frame. I will check the one that I have tomorrow.
I have a gen 3 G19 prefix RRAxxx assigned to me and I have never been hit in the face with brass.
kantstudien
05-02-14, 02:09
I read about glocks recommended upgrade for saftey concerns then I just sent it to the factory
Would you be pissed if Glock just sent you a brand new Gen 3? Maybe someone at the factory will declare your Gen 2 "unsafe" and voluntarily "upgrade" you with a Gen 3.
Would you be pissed if Glock just sent you a brand new Gen 3? Maybe someone at the factory will declare your Gen 2 "unsafe" and voluntarily "upgrade" you with a Gen 3.
Glock won't just send you a new frame, slide or barrel back. You'll get a phone call to discuss any issues they find. Ultimately the decision will be yours.
Phillygunguy
05-02-14, 09:17
Would you be pissed if Glock just sent you a brand new Gen 3? Maybe someone at the factory will declare your Gen 2 "unsafe" and voluntarily "upgrade" you with a Gen 3.
Yep and I'd blame you for jinxing me
seriously I'd want a gen 4 at least. but I don't think they'll do that
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