View Full Version : Clive Bundy opens mouth, and inserts foot...
Like I said, not necessarily the guy to put 100% of your faith in. Although I get what he was trying to say, he said it totally wrong..
http://www.nbcnews.com/#/politics/politics-news/gop-scrambles-condemn-ranchers-remarks-race-n88556
“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.
“And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”
Whiskey_Bravo
04-24-14, 09:57
/facepalm
Dude that's only "street cred" to the people that adore him.........didn't you get the memo??? He's the second coming of George Washington.
Understand what his point is.... but the racial dividing media and liberals will spin this like a mofo.
And, as Harry Reid will undoubtedly say shortly, that Bundy's comments are defacto proof that all the terrorists that supported his standoff with the BLM are racists too...
montanadave
04-24-14, 10:41
Understand what his point is.... but the racial dividing media and liberals will spin this like a mofo.
I don't think there's much "spin" required for this one.
And the guy's got a lot of chutzpah to rip into "the blacks" for living off government subsidies when he's been grazing cattle on federal land for twenty years without paying a nickel.
decodeddiesel
04-24-14, 10:45
I don't think there's much "spin" required for this one.
And the guy's got a lot of chutzpah to rip into "the blacks" for living off government subsidies when he's been grazing cattle on federal land for twenty years without paying a nickel.
I would have to agree. Nothing here but straight up bigotry.
I don't think there's much "spin" required for this one.
And the guy's got a lot of chutzpah to rip into "the blacks" for living off government subsidies when he's been grazing cattle on federal land for twenty years without paying a nickel.
True.... I just agree that the welfare blacks are indeed less free by being dependent on subsidies.
montanadave
04-24-14, 11:00
True.... I just agree that the welfare blacks are indeed less free by being dependent on subsidies.
Rather than letting this thread go straight off the rails, how's about we stipulate that hooking people (regardless of race, creed, or color) on government subsidies is a bad idea and that slavery is an even worse state of affairs?
But it is true about the welfare for generations groups. They come in different races. Look at the context of the remark. Bundy was driving by a certain group of welfare people. Sad we don't teach critical thinking to everyone in public schools. Yes the truth these days can hurt peoples little feelings.
It's not just black people who are not realizing their potential because of gov't handouts. I just wish Clive would have said it differently as his statement detracts from his battle..It's like Romney's "percent" comments - totally true but taken out of context in no small part cost him on election day...
Rather than letting this thread go straight off the rails, how's about we stipulate that hooking people (regardless of race, creed, or color) on government subsidies is a bad idea and that slavery is an even worse state of affairs?
I completely agree with this statement.
It's still not about Cliven or his cows.
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Moose-Knuckle
04-24-14, 12:06
http://www.nbcnews.com/#/politics/politics-news/gop-scrambles-condemn-ranchers-remarks-race-n88556
“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.
“And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”
And this gives the Federal goverment the right to send armed troops against him because . . . ?
Whether you agree with him or not everything he said in the link above (if he even really said it in the first place) is protected under the 1st Amendment.
True.... I just agree that the welfare blacks are indeed less free by being dependent on subsidies.
I disagree from a literal point of view. Modern welfare dependants literally have more freedoms. They can legally own firearms, vote, and walk out of their home and do whatever they want. They can't be legally beat by a rich person just because.
Their standard of life may be worse than some slaves in the 1800s, but they're undisputedly more free to do what they want.
If anything, their only chains are their lack of motivation.
I disagree from a literal point of view. Modern welfare dependants literally have more freedoms. They can legally own firearms, vote, and walk out of their home and do whatever they want. They can't be legally beat by a rich person just because.
Their standard of life may be worse than some slaves in the 1800s, but they're undisputedly more free to do what they want.
If anything, their only chains are their lack of motivation.
I think he meant "free" from a cost ($) point of view, not a 'free'dom POV.
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Understand what his point is.... but the racial dividing media and liberals will spin this like a mofo.Which is why our side needs to work on kicking them out of the information gatekeeper role. LONG overdue.
If anything, their only chains are their lack of motivation.
Anyone growing up on subsidies with no exposure to actual working role models, accomplishiment, responsibility, etc. is likely doomed to continue the cycle. I do agree a lack of motivation is a factor.
Which is why our side needs to work on kicking them out of the information gatekeeper role. LONG overdue.
I agree. I'm not sure what motivates these sick people to create divide and hate at every chance... even to include editing 911 calls so they say "I think he's black", etc. Sick people.
Anyone growing up on subsidies with no exposure to actual working role models, accomplishiment, responsibility, etc. is likely doomed to continue the cycle. I do agree a lack of motivation is a factor.
Ware be ma wefar chek. I gettin angry.
A little more info about Mr. Bundy and his 1870's ranch lol
http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25302186/an-abbreviated-look-at-rancher-cliven-bundys-family-history
"Clark County Recorder documents show the 160-acre Bunkerville ranch Bundy calls home was purchased by his parents, David and Bodel Bundy, from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt on Jan. 5, 1948. The purchase included the transfer to the Bundys of certain water rights, including water from the nearby Virgin River. Cliven Bundy was born in 1946."
And the "Nevada land he wont recognize as Federal" lol
http://www.rgj.com/story/news/2014/04/16/ask-rgj-released-nevadas-public-lands/7794823/
Nevada's Constitution further reflects the enabling act: "That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare, that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States."
10 foot pole? nuh-uh. not going to touch this one...
So slaves had a better family life and environment than free blacks do? Gee I thought slave families were torn apart as a matter of routine.
Fu*k that idiot.
Bunch is an idiot. He needs to invest in some super glue to shut his pie hole permanently.
On a philosophical level those living off of welfare with no useful skills are living a life of servitude. Their standard of living, safety and civil rights are at an incredibly different level than those who lived in chains, but they are slaves of a different sort. As are we all to a degree.
Still don't see why the BLM needs to send a SWAT team, helicopters and all that other crap his way. Racism is idiotic at best, but still not a legal matter.
Ware be ma wefar chek. I gettin angry.
I'm sorry, was that supposed to be your white trash redneck imitation? Come on down to rural NC and you'll see plenty of disgusting, wife beater wear'n, trailer home live'n, meth cook'n, toothless, rednecks who can't get enough Medicaid, Oxy, or Xanax. Yeah, they can't afford dental floss or a bar of soap, but Confederate flag neck tattoos are in no short supply.
montanadave
04-24-14, 14:59
I'm sorry, was that supposed to be your white trash redneck imitation? Come on down to rural NC and you'll see plenty of disgusting, wife beater wear'n, trailer home live'n, meth cook'n, toothless, rednecks who can't get enough Medicaid, Oxy, or Xanax. Yeah, they can't afford dental floss or a bar of soap, but Confederate flag neck tattoos are in no short supply.
Thank you. If anyone wants to look at the actual numbers for folks receiving TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) here's a peek: http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/resource/character/fy2010/fy2010-chap10-ys-final
For FY2010, looks like about 31.8% white, 31.9% black, and 30.0% hispanic. Seems to me like a pretty even split.
Just because Bundy choose to make some ill-advised remarks, I see no need for anyone to follow suit.
Thank you. If anyone wants to look at the actual numbers for folks receiving TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) here's a peek: http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/resource/character/fy2010/fy2010-chap10-ys-final
For FY2010, looks like about 31.8% white, 31.9% black, and 30.0% hispanic. Seems to me like a pretty even split.
Just because Bundy choose to make some ill-advised remarks, I see no need for anyone to follow suit.
Is that by percentage of race (as in 31% of all whites in America receive TANF) or percentage of assistance (31% of TANF recipients are white)? If the latter, then there is a significant disparity in the breakdown. Per the 2010 Census stats, 72.4% of Americans are white, 12.2% black and 16.4% Hispanic.
The contributing factors could vary greatly per category and even geographically, but it's obvious there's an issue. Overt and non-overt targeting could play a role. Just sayin...
montanadave
04-24-14, 15:20
Is that by percentage of race (as in 31% of all whites in America receive TANF) or percentage of assistance (31% of TANF recipients are white)? If the latter, then there is a significant disparity in the breakdown. Per the 2010 Census stats, 72.4% of Americans are white, 12.2% black and 16.4% Hispanic.
The contributing factors could vary greatly per category and even geographically, but it's obvious there's an issue. Overt and non-overt targeting could play a role. Just sayin...
I believe those percentages are based on those receiving TANF ("percentage of assistance" as you defined it above).
Thank you. If anyone wants to look at the actual numbers for folks receiving TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) here's a peek: http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/ofa/resource/character/fy2010/fy2010-chap10-ys-final
For FY2010, looks like about 31.8% white, 31.9% black, and 30.0% hispanic. Seems to me like a pretty even split.
Just because Bundy choose to make some ill-advised remarks, I see no need for anyone to follow suit.
Numbers and stats don't work here within the context of your point.
Blacks = 12.6% of the population yet absorb nearly 1/3 of the aforementioned entitlements.
Hispanics = 16.4% of the population yet they also uitilize another third according to your numbers.
That means one third of the population is using two thirds of it's entitlement resources.
Now instead of producing straw man arguments which will backfire let's all just agree Bundy doesn't deserve our support, shall we?
montanadave
04-24-14, 15:45
Now instead of producing straw man arguments which will backfire let's all just agree Bundy doesn't deserve our support, shall we?
Didn't intend to muddy the waters. And I agree, if I gotta pick a horse in this race, it ain't Bundy.
Moose-Knuckle
04-24-14, 15:48
Is that by percentage of race (as in 31% of all whites in America receive TANF) or percentage of assistance (31% of TANF recipients are white)? If the latter, then there is a significant disparity in the breakdown. Per the 2010 Census stats, 72.4% of Americans are white, 12.2% black and 16.4% Hispanic.
The contributing factors could vary greatly per category and even geographically, but it's obvious there's an issue. Overt and non-overt targeting could play a role. Just sayin...
Bingo!
Bingo!
Bingo, eureka, wowza dowza. None of it matters because Bundy is still a detriment despite the stats.
Moose-Knuckle
04-24-14, 16:10
Bingo, eureka, wowza dowza. None of it matters because Bundy is still a detriment despite the stats.
Do you know for a fact that he made those comments?
Even if he did and you do not share his sentiment how does that change the numbers posted above, or over reach by the Federal government for that matter?
I'm not a fan of this Bundy character but I'm far less of a fan of what the gummint did here.
Doc Safari
04-24-14, 16:29
If he really said it then he rightfully just lost all the sympathy he might have had.
I'm beginning to think all this came about because the guy's got Alzheimers.
Still, the government was wrong in the standoff, too.
Even if he did and you do not share his sentiment how does that change the numbers posted above, or over reach by the Federal government for that matter?
I didn't intend to put you on the defensive and no where did I advocate the governments' actions, in fact if you happened to see my posts in the locked thread it was quite the opposite. Just trying to keep things in a sensible context.
To add even a bit more context I have been trying for months to get a family member's product onto a GSA schedule and find them utterly impossible to work with. The government gives new meaning to the terms "ineffective" and "unaccountable" and at this point I can't stand talking to any of the worthless individuals there anymore. Total shit, all of them.
I think we can all agree that Bundy isn't the brightest bulb in the bin. He might know quite a bit about punching cows in the desert, but that doesn't exacly make him a giver of sage advice (pun intended). :)
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-24-14, 17:21
I'll leave this sort of rhetoric to Dr. Ben Carson, as he can wax poetic about it w/out sounding like a KKK rally. Bundy is an idiot, this has been known throughout the entire ordeal. People stood up against what they felt was tyranny, not for Bundy (at least most did). Now, Bundy has made them all look like racist right wing nuts by opening his mouth. Good Lord, what a stupid man.
ETA: remember that racist bigots still deserve protection form over-reaching governments. Not saying that this is one of those situations, but it may be...
Moose-Knuckle
04-24-14, 17:28
I didn't intend to put you on the defensive and no where did I advocate the governments' actions, in fact if you happened to see my posts in the locked thread it was quite the opposite. Just trying to keep things in a sensible context.
To add even a bit more context I have been trying for months to get a family member's product onto a GSA schedule and find them utterly impossible to work with. The government gives new meaning to the terms "ineffective" and "unaccountable" and at this point I can't stand talking to any of the worthless individuals there anymore. Total shit, all of them.
Roger that, adjusting fire.
Good luck with all the red tape.
Understand what his point is.... but the racial dividing media and liberals will spin this like a mofo.
Won't even take much spin, I don't think I've seen a more poorly expressed thought since Weaver tried to explain the difference between a white separatist and a white supremacist.
At this point Bundy might as well be Bernard Goetz, another person who initially had popular support but wasn't smart enough to just shut up and let the public support your actions.
Doc Safari
04-24-14, 17:40
Won't even take much spin, I don't think I've seen a more poorly expressed thought since Weaver tried to explain the difference between a white separatist and a white supremacist.
At this point Bundy might as well be Bernard Goetz, another person who initially had popular support but wasn't smart enough to just shut up and let the public support your actions.
Reading your post reminded me of an old adage:
"Samson slew the Philistines with the jawbone of an ass, and many a salesman has killed a sale through the use of the same weapon."
Given that Bundy is a "salesman" for the power to the people cause, he just killed the sale and then some.
No way this is going to end well now.
Never mind, comment deleted.
Whiskey_Bravo
04-24-14, 19:24
Here is the full clip with Bundy's comments. Still not PC at all, but not quite the completely racist rant that CNN made it out to be. He seems to be speaking about people that are stuck in the cycle of welfare and public assistance, and then speaks fairly well of the Mexican/Hispanic culture and family structure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXns-W60MI
CNN version
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/04/24/politicians-denounce-bundys-racist-remarks/
I'm sorry, was that supposed to be your white trash redneck imitation? Come on down to rural NC and you'll see plenty of disgusting, wife beater wear'n, trailer home live'n, meth cook'n, toothless, rednecks who can't get enough Medicaid, Oxy, or Xanax. Yeah, they can't afford dental floss or a bar of soap, but Confederate flag neck tattoos are in no short supply.
You know you think think the rebel flag tattoo is sexy as hell on the neck!
Here is the full clip with Bundy's comments. Still not PC at all, but not quite the completely racist rant that CNN made it out to be. He seems to be speaking about people that are stuck in the cycle of welfare and public assistance, and then speaks fairly well of the Mexican/Hispanic culture and family structure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXns-W60MI
CNN version
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/04/24/politicians-denounce-bundys-racist-remarks/
And reading what he said the way he said it, I assumed he was talking about welfare being the "new slavery" but I also knew he was gonna get killed for even trying to discuss the subject. I also don't think he is a "black advocate" so much as he is a critic.
“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said.
I didn't get past this.
Whiskey_Bravo
04-25-14, 08:44
And reading what he said the way he said it, I assumed he was talking about welfare being the "new slavery" but I also knew he was gonna get killed for even trying to discuss the subject. I also don't think he is a "black advocate" so much as he is a critic.
I will probably have to agree with you.
Whaddya know. CNN paraphrased just about as bad as the edited phone call in the Travon Martin case....Character assasination at it's finest....In this video I thought the old man was pretty decent about trying to broach the subject.
30 cal slut
04-25-14, 09:41
I agree with this lady. :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0zoee4k7yE
This stupid thing has gone FULL SouthPark episode.
I agree with this lady. :o
Too bad MSNBCrap wouldn't have interest in the sensible and well spoken woman. But even if they did she'd be either harassed to no end or would leave by her own accord rather than have her faith in humanity obliterated.
This stupid thing has gone FULL SouthPark episode.
Just needs "Took mah cattle."
This stupid thing has gone FULL SouthPark episode.
In modern America, if you're White, it has been determined you don't have the credibility to discuss anything pertaining to ethnic issues. It's the proverbial 3rd rail in modern debate. Cliven needs to step back and let an articulate spokesman/spokesperson keep on message without wandering off in the weeds.
Many of the same points that Bundy made have been similarly raised by the likes of Thomas Sowell and Walter E. Williams for many years, both prominent black scholars. He didn't come across as being a "racist" to me, inarticulate, absolutely. He seems like an old school cowboy type who's lived a lot of years in semi-isolation and his perception is skewed by his limited interaction with the people he's making generalizations about.
I think the whole thing is blown out of proportion and I agree with the girl posted above in the video.
FWIW - The way he describes parts of North Las Vegas is spot on.
ETA - This picture certainly doesn't follow the whole Bundy is a "racist" narrative.
http://westernrifleshooters.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/140424201343-01-standoff-0424-horizontal-gallery.jpg
You know you think think the rebel flag tattoo is sexy as hell on the neck!
My favorite is the person who never made it out of 8th grade with a UNC Tarheel tattoo on their neck or face.
Just needs "Took mah cattle."
They Took Our Crrll!!!
FWIW - The way he describes parts of North Las Vegas is spot on.
My sister lived in that shit hole for a while.
montanadave
04-25-14, 14:38
We can have a discussion regarding the unintended cultural and societal consequences of the modern welfare state but let's not lose sight of the fact that Bundy seriously questioned whether blacks living under slavery, when they were beaten, branded, starved, chained, and killed on the whims of their owners, were better off than those blacks he saw sitting on their porch in North Las Vegas. Really?
The guy apparently learned most of his history about the slave economy of the antebellum South from watching reruns of Gone With the Wind.
Parse his comments anyway you want, that's the question the guy posed. And it's so beyond ridiculous that it boggles the imagination.
montanadave
04-25-14, 14:43
Dey tuuk r jrbs!
:lol:
ForTehNguyen
04-25-14, 16:17
the context! They taketh out!
http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/unedited-tape-bundy-emerges-sheds-light-racist-remarks
BTW find the racist in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUHkw3UH3N4
FTN - Nice find on that video. I think the black dude might be the same guy I posted the picture of above, but I'm not 100% sure.
ForTehNguyen
04-25-14, 17:14
gotta be him, same facial hair, shades, clothing
Here is the full clip with Bundy's comments. Still not PC at all, but not quite the completely racist rant that CNN made it out to be. He seems to be speaking about people that are stuck in the cycle of welfare and public assistance, and then speaks fairly well of the Mexican/Hispanic culture and family structure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXns-W60MI
CNN version
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/04/24/politicians-denounce-bundys-racist-remarks/
Interesting. He told the shill Alex Jones that he "never said anything about picking cotton".
This guy is either in the beginning stages of dementia, or just a liar.
Interesting. He told the shill Alex Jones...
What do you mean by "shill"? I'm genuinely curious.
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