View Full Version : PA: Widow Loses Appeal of Six Dollar Tax Lien, Her $280.000 Home Sold To Cover Debt!!
http://rt.com/usa/155540-house-sale-paltry-debt/
I am left speechless....
Last week, County Judge C. Gus Kwidis ruled against Battisti, saying she had been properly notified of her debt and that the sale followed state law. In his six-page order, the judge said the former homeowner is entitled to $108,039 in proceeds from the sale after her tax obligations are met.
“She's going to get that money, but she's going to lose her house. All the notice requirements were met,” Kwidis said on Friday as cited by the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. “In tax assessment laws, even if I feel sorry for her, I can't do anything to help her. ... Everyone felt bad about it.”
Battisti plans to appeal the ruling before the Commonwealth Court, she said.
Joe Askar, Beaver County's chief solicitor, said the judge got the decision right.
"The county never wants to see anybody lose their home, but at the same time the tax sale law, the tax real estate law, doesn't give a whole lot of room for error either," Askar said.
platoonDaddy
05-01-14, 13:59
I have family members living in the area and are up in arms!
2nd bad ruling coming out of PA, one my this judge and the state supreme court.
I have family members living in the area and are up in arms!
2nd bad ruling coming out of PA, one my this judge and the state supreme court.
If you are able, please inquire of your family as to just who the hell is "SP Lewis?" And feel free to follow it up here...
She ADMITTED that she did receive some notices...... so when you play stupid games like "ignore your mail for months on end".... there are consequences.
It is, unfortunate, that it was for such a small dollar amount. Alas, are we to deny the rights of the buyer that legitimately paid for a home in a legal transaction that was a result of her ignoring her mail for months?
Tell me it ain't so M4C, tell me it ain't so.
We can't protect everyone for every conceivable consequence of every bad choice or bad decision at all times..... just to be nice. Not playing by the rules and ignoring mail has consequences. Real consequences.
Perhaps someone in .gov SHOULD have looked up the woman's children and notified them? Perhaps someone in .gov should have just ignored it forever? At what point do you want your .gov to "ignore" and amount, $100? Would that be "fair"?
Putting your proverbial head in a hole like an ostrich and ignoring correspondence has consequences.
Likely the house is NOT worth $280,000 either. That is headline grabbing right there.
She ADMITTED that she did receive some notices...... so when you play stupid games like "ignore your mail for months on end".... there are consequences.
I didn't see that part, I just saw this.
Battisti appealed the move, saying she didn’t know she owed the past due charge until she was notified that her home would be sold.
I didn't see that part, I just saw this.
"Battisti appealed the move, saying she didn’t know she owed the past due charge until she was notified that her home would be sold."
You really buying that? Color me skeptical.
I had a tenant that I sent a letter, registered, with a return receipt notice.
She would open her PO box, take out other mail, ignore the post office's notice to stop in the window to sign for an envelope.
She knew what it was, refused to receive it.
Games are played. There are winners and losers.
Eventually, after 30 or 60 days (I forget), the Post Office was required to return the undelivered letter to me. As you can imagine, I kept the unopened letter that was "refused".
What can you do? You give notice. You play games, you lose.
Can you imagine the crap-storm this buyer is getting over this?
He is not party to her games... yet he gets the full brunt of mob mentality AND is waiting months and months to get the house he has signed on the dotted line for..... tough crap for him I guess, huh?
"Battisti appealed the move, saying she didn’t know she owed the past due charge until she was notified that her home would be sold."
You really buying that? Color me skeptical.
I'm buying that. I know a lot of old widows that don't open their mail regularly. The house is "free and clear" and they just open and pay their light bills and such. Some of them have been scammed by official looking letters for owed taxes, assessments, etc. and after they get chastised for being "so gullible" a couple times they actually become afraid of their mail.
A few of my grandmothers friends got swindled over the phone for a few thousand dollars when people called claiming their deceased husband had outstanding debts, unpaid taxes and things like that. Word got out around the "old lady network" in town and when I asked my grandmother a few years back about her large box of unopened mail she replied it was just "people trying to rob me for money."
At some point in the "we are taking your home over a $6 late fee" process a person needs to make direct contact. There isn't really a dollar threshold but like being "served" before you can force the sale of a home it should be a requirement to have somebody knock on the door and say "Do you understand that if this isn't paid we can and will sell your house?" Once notified face to face the ball is then in the homeowners court.
I just don't see an old lady saying "Screw em for $6, let them try and take my house." This is a large variety headache and $6 and change is the "easy button" to make it go away.
Well, the government is not going to do the right thing for the people. It's not its nature. Some low-level civil servant playing the "not my job" game passes the buck when it is nearly certain nothing can be done to help the lady, when said servant could have very likely mitigated the whole thing.
I see the same thing in medicine, where people just will not do the right thing because it is not "policy" or not "SOP."
Being that I live in PA and this county likely has the exact same RE tax system....
Taxes are paid twice a year.
Probably her March 2009 bill where she did not pay the full amount due. I am guessing. Who knows?
Her September 2009 RE tax bill, which apparently she RECEIVED and PAID, would have showed past taxes unpaid.
Her March 2010 RE tax bill, which apparently she RECEIVED and PAID, would have showed past taxes unpaid.
Her September 2010 RE tax bill, which apparently she RECEIVED and PAID, would have showed past taxes unpaid.
Her March 2011 RE tax bill, which apparently she RECEIVED and PAID, would have showed past taxes unpaid.
Home sold in September 2011.
How many other notices, including the aforementioned registered letter that was returned... do you think she was sent? One a year? That is three more notices on top of her regular RE tax notices.
So by my estimation she likely received SEVEN pieces of correspondence that showed something was up.
So she received all of these notices at the same address... yet somehow had no clue....
The buyer of the house, being Shooter McGavin, doesn't care about being a bad guy.
Any cocksucker involved in stealing this woman's house, who was recently widowed, should be drawn and quartered.
ETA - The mortgage was paid in full, with the life insurance from her late husband, proving that you NEVER own the house that you think you do.
Battisti appealed the move, saying she didn’t know she owed the past due charge until she was notified that her home would be sold.
Something is fishy about this one.... usually you could just go pay it off..... maybe you would owe some fees for the work they had to do thus far.... but the whole thing sounds fishy. Also if she had a mortgage, the company should have been paying those bills. The whole thing sounds a bit hard to believe.
ETA - The mortgage was paid in full, with the life insurance from her late husband, proving that you NEVER own the house that you think you do.
And that is the big lesson everyone should learn from this case and many other countless examples of the same.
Something is fishy about this one.... usually you could just go pay it off..... maybe you would owe some fees for the work they had to do thus far.... but the whole thing sounds fishy. Also if she had a mortgage, the company should have been paying those bills. The whole thing sounds a bit hard to believe.
She should be thankful that the BLM didn't show up with their SWAT team. In all honesty, it seems far more likely that this lady knew that she owed a debt and decided to play games. Thus, it like to hear how the evidence plays our before I pass judgement.
Being that I live in PA and this county likely has the exact same RE tax system....
Taxes are paid twice a year.
Probably her March 2009 bill where she did not pay the full amount due. I am guessing. Who knows?
Her September 2009 RE tax bill, which apparently she RECEIVED and PAID, would have showed past taxes unpaid.
Her March 2010 RE tax bill, which apparently she RECEIVED and PAID, would have showed past taxes unpaid.
Her September 2010 RE tax bill, which apparently she RECEIVED and PAID, would have showed past taxes unpaid.
Her March 2011 RE tax bill, which apparently she RECEIVED and PAID, would have showed past taxes unpaid.
Home sold in September 2011.
How many other notices, including the aforementioned registered letter that was returned... do you think she was sent? One a year? That is three more notices on top of her regular RE tax notices.
So by my estimation she likely received SEVEN pieces of correspondence that showed something was up.
So she received all of these notices at the same address... yet somehow had no clue....
I really don't care how many times they tried to contact this women by mail, and just so you understand, neither will the vast majority of homeowners, what they will care about, is that the state/municipality strongly appears to have taken ruthless advantage of her $6.00 debt! Thats two netflix rentals, and excuse me for saying, here you are, not just good with it, but piling on good with it! Unless some bizarre fact as yet unknown is to emerge, I don't see how you could live with such an ice cold world view....
If she owed close to the amount the house was worth than I would not have that much question about it. But for a few dollars that is BS. Put a lien on the house or something of that nature but seizing a house for 6 dollars is a perfect example of you really don't own anything because the Government can take it away for no reason.
And that is the big lesson everyone should learn from this case and many other countless examples of the same.
Yep, property taxes are the worst scheme any one ever cooked up.
Whiskey_Bravo
05-01-14, 21:23
If she owed close to the amount the house was worth than I would not have that much question about it. But for a few dollars that is BS. Put a lien on the house or something of that nature but seizing a house for 6 dollars is a perfect example of you really don't own anything because the Government can take it away for no reason.
This
and this x eleventy billion
Yep, property taxes are the worst scheme any one ever cooked up.
Any cocksucker involved in stealing this woman's house, who was recently widowed, should be drawn and quartered.
ETA - The mortgage was paid in full, with the life insurance from her late husband, proving that you NEVER own the house that you think you do.
Dead on.
RearwardAssist
05-01-14, 22:06
"Battisti appealed the move, saying she didn’t know she owed the past due charge until she was notified that her home would be sold."
You really buying that? Color me skeptical.
I buy it I check my mail once a month maybe unless I am expecting something. I pay my bills online there is rarely anything but junk mail in my box.
Moose-Knuckle
05-02-14, 02:29
She should now claim to be a squatter, I here they have more rights than the actual owners these days . . .
I buy it I check my mail once a month maybe unless I am expecting something. I pay my bills online there is rarely anything but junk mail in my box.
That's cool, but don't let your choice to ignore your mail serve as an excuse for missed correspondance.
Two more crucial little tidbits of information about this case.
1. In Pennsylvania the Sheriff is required to physically serve papers on unpaid taxes. This was done, so she knew about it.
2. In Pennsylvania you have all they way up to the MORNING OF THE PUBLIC SALE to pay the taxes and it stops the entire process. Cold.
This woman purposely ignored everything, repeatedly.
So she not only failed to open her mail, failed to mention in this article that she was served papers long before it was "too late", and failed to show even cursory interest and pay the taxes that could have been paid all the way up to the morning of the sheriff sale.
Are we a nation of laws or men? Now we are just a nation of emotionalism and mob rule.
$280,000 house? I doubt it based on all of the other falsifications. I wouldn't be surprised if the sheriff sale isn't a whole lot closer to FMV.
This case went on for over two years. So "checking the mail once a month" gives her 24 opportunities to receive repeated notices that something was wrong.... on top of being physically served papers by the Sheriff.
This is sad, but is it a sign of a lack of compassion? It shows a lack of even the smallest amount of interest in her own affairs. If only she would have responded, one time, with a check and it all would have gone away. Every bit of it. Corrected. Fixed.
Instead she did nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Two more crucial little tidbits of information about this case.
1. In Pennsylvania the Sheriff is required to physically serve papers on unpaid taxes. This was done, so she knew about it.
2. In Pennsylvania you have all they way up to the MORNING OF THE PUBLIC SALE to pay the taxes and it stops the entire process. Cold.
This woman purposely ignored everything, repeatedly.
So she not only failed to open her mail, failed to mention in this article that she was served papers long before it was "too late", and failed to show even cursory interest and pay the taxes that could have been paid all the way up to the morning of the sheriff sale.
Are we a nation of laws or men? Now we are just a nation of emotionalism and mob rule.
$280,000 house? I doubt it based on all of the other falsifications. I wouldn't be surprised if the sheriff sale isn't a whole lot closer to FMV.
This case went on for over two years. So "checking the mail once a month" gives her 24 opportunities to receive repeated notices that something was wrong.... on top of being physically served papers by the Sheriff.
This is sad, but is it a sign of a lack of compassion? It shows a lack of even the smallest amount of interest in her own affairs. If only she would have responded, one time, with a check and it all would have gone away. Every bit of it. Corrected. Fixed.
Instead she did nothing. Absolutely nothing.
The very fact you find it acceptable to seize 100,000 of dollars in property over a 6 dollar debt is what is disturbing.
If she had owed 100K or what ever the value of the house was than I would have been fine with it, but for 6 dollars? The officials are acting like petty tyrants and I find it shocking that a member of gun board is fine with that.
The very fact you find it acceptable to seize 100,000 of dollars in property over a 6 dollar debt is what is disturbing.
If she had owed 100K or what ever the value of the house was than I would have been fine with it, but for 6 dollars? The officials are acting like petty tyrants and I find it shocking that a member of gun board is fine with that.
Like I said, there is a lot more to the story that is not being reported by the OP's obscure website with an agenda. It turns out that she owes close to $20K in other taxes. Although she only owes ~$250 on the house (the original $6 plus interest and fines), she has tons of other tax debts that will get paid by the funds from the house.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/28/pennsylvania-widow-loses-home-6-tax-lien/8432411/
Tax records show that as of last week she has an outstanding balance of more than $20,000, including penalties and interest, for county, municipal and school taxes from 2009 to 2013.
She was a serial tax evader who liked to play cat and mouse games. She is lucky that she's not behind bars.
The only legal recourse for unpaid RE taxes is this process. They can't garnish her wages, take her car, draw money out of her checkbook, call and write 50 more times for her to ignore.
It is also why the law reads that you can show up with the $6 plus fines and penalties before the sheriff sale and get the whole thing stopped cold. Immediately. All gone away. Done. The morning of the sale even.
Her doing nothing forces this process to proceed. FORCED it to play out in this way.
This process coming to this conclusion was HER choice, not the .gov.
Now she gets over $100,000 in her hand to go buy a new place... because of the consequences of her own actions.
Plenty of assumptions, based off of news articles, being made in this thread.
I worked in a Municipal Govt as a summer job when I was a teen.
When situations like this came up (homeowners owing small amounts, usually do to unforeseen interest charges or late bills), the tax assessor just pulled $6 out of his pocket and paid it. Nobody knew except those that worked there. I only found out as he gave me the money and told me what account to apply it to.
Times have changed I guess.
The only legal recourse for unpaid RE taxes is this process. They can't garnish her wages, take her car, draw money out of her checkbook, call and write 50 more times for her to ignore.
It is also why the law reads that you can show up with the $6 plus fines and penalties before the sheriff sale and get the whole thing stopped cold. Immediately. All gone away. Done.
Her doing nothing forces this process to proceed. FORCED it to play out in this way.
This process coming to this conclusion was HER choice, not the .gov.
Now she gets over $100,000 in her hand to go buy a new place... because of the consequences of her own actions.
Don't worry - this lady is getting exactly what she deserves. She owes a shitload more than $6 and some in the dishonest media are intentionally misreporting the story.
You'd think that people would take their time and do a little research after the whole Bundy racism affair.
Any cocksucker involved in stealing this woman's house, who was recently widowed, should be drawn and quartered.
ETA - The mortgage was paid in full, with the life insurance from her late husband, proving that you NEVER own the house that you think you do.
+
Plenty of assumptions, based off of news articles, being made in this thread.
Dude...
Dude...
I wasn't making an assumption, I was making an assertion. ;)
My point was people are making assumptions about this woman's actions, or lack thereof, her motivation, thoughts, etc. without any sort of proof that I'm aware of.
She owned the house, bought and paid for, according to everything I've read. Taxes, by definition, are theft. I think it's odd that somehow when the house was sold, she owed approximately $250, and now it's somehow added up to $20k. Is that from fines and penalties alone?
Just like the Bundy Ranch thing, people are ****ing fed up. Today, in the news, IRS stealing innocent people's money. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-the-heavy-hand-of-the-irs/2014/04/30/7a56ca9e-cfc5-11e3-a6b1-45c4dffb85a6_story.html) Here in Nevada the cops are stealing people's money (http://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2014/03/12/cops-use-traffic-stops-to-seize-millions-from-drivers-never-charged-with-a-crime/), "asset forfeiture", and are under federal investigation for it.
I hope she burns the place to the ground.
The only legal recourse for unpaid RE taxes is this process. They can't garnish her wages, take her car, draw money out of her checkbook, call and write 50 more times for her to ignore.
It is also why the law reads that you can show up with the $6 plus fines and penalties before the sheriff sale and get the whole thing stopped cold. Immediately. All gone away. Done. The morning of the sale even.
Her doing nothing forces this process to proceed. FORCED it to play out in this way.
This process coming to this conclusion was HER choice, not the .gov.
Now she gets over $100,000 in her hand to go buy a new place... because of the consequences of her own actions.
I guess PA is the only state without the ability to place a tax lien on property
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I wasn't making an assumption, I was making an assertion. ;)
My point was people are making assumptions about this woman's actions, or lack thereof, her motivation, thoughts, etc. without any sort of proof that I'm aware of.
She owned the house, bought and paid for, according to everything I've read. Taxes, by definition, are theft. I think it's odd that somehow when the house was sold, she owed approximately $250, and now it's somehow added up to $20k. Is that from fines and penalties alone?
Just like the Bundy Ranch thing, people are ****ing fed up. Today, in the news, IRS stealing innocent people's money. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-the-heavy-hand-of-the-irs/2014/04/30/7a56ca9e-cfc5-11e3-a6b1-45c4dffb85a6_story.html) Here in Nevada the cops are stealing people's money (http://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2014/03/12/cops-use-traffic-stops-to-seize-millions-from-drivers-never-charged-with-a-crime/), "asset forfeiture", and are under federal investigation for it.
I hope she burns the place to the ground.
According to the USAToday article, the outstanding $20K is for unpaid taxes other than the property balance of $250 (originally $6 in 2009). They also note that this lady had, until recently, an unpaid balance on her property taxes as well which incurred the now infamous $6 interest charge. Thus, she was no stranger to her local department of revenue which is a much different picture than what was painted in the first page of this thread.
Having said that, I can see where this lady got confused and missed the collections notices for the delinquent interest. It got buried beneath the notices for the other $20K in back taxes.
There is a reason why many widows down size after the death of their spouse. Although the house is paid for, the taxes can bankrupt the surviving spouse in many instances. It sounds like she decided to stick her head in the sand instead of moving on with her life in an affordable manner.
One of my relatives was involved in a similar circumstance at the end of their life, the state put leans against the property and when he finally passed they collected what was owed. In socialist WI they were fine with waiting for the transfer of the property to take their cut, instead of showing how everyone needed to respect their authority
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