First post, first AR, somethings not right

[CWAmeden]

Hey guys, I've been lurking around here for quite a while now and thought it was finally time to introduce myself. I picked up a new in box Colt 6520 a few weeks ago from a local shop. I've been going to the range to sight it in and get used to firing her. The range has a rule, single load. So today I go out to my buddies to do some shooting...

When I load up a mag, everytime i fire, it shoots two bullets. When I pull the trigger it fires, and when I let go of the trigger it fires again... No matter how fast I pull the trigger of if I hold the trigger then let go.

Any ideas why my new AR would be double firing? I called the gun shop and told them, they told me to bring it in obviously. Im not sure exatcly what to do so I thought I would get some feedback from this forum. There seems to be a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum so hope someone can help. Thanks in advance, Jake

[RyanB]

The fire control group is fubared. It happens a lot with ARs. I've had it happen to me twice so far.

[live2offroad]

The fire control group is fubared. It happens a lot with ARs. I've had it happen to me twice so far.

Ok, but what does the above mean? More detail please..

Thanks

-Peter

[BushmasterFanBoy]

Ok, but what does the above mean? More detail please..

Thanks

-Peter

It could be any number of things, like a broken disconnector, or missing disconector spring, but if it is not firing when the trigger is held, the disconnector seems to be working.

That may mean the hammer/trigger engagement is suspect.

(All of what I just said is null and void in the event someone more knowledgeable than me responds, I'm by no means in expert or even proficient in AR triggers)

[CWAmeden]

Do you think this is something the local gun shop can fix, or should it be sent out to Colt?

[Ridgerunner665]

I would send it to Colt...FAST...people have gone to prison over malfunctioning AR 15's.

It seems the law doesn't have a sense of humor when it comes to this...they would consider it a machine gun if the right LEO saw it.

[Parabellum9x19mm]

you should be doing a function check before you fire a weapon at the range. really you should be doing function checks all the time.

you can wind yourself in a lot of trouble if your weapon is letting off 2-round bursts.

function check is as follows (this will work for most semi-auto pistols and rifles too).

ensure the weapon is unloaded.

cycle the action, place the weapon on safe. pull the trigger *no click*

place the weapon on fire, pull AND HOLD the trigger *metallic click*

while holding the trigger, cycle the action and then release the trigger *metallic click*

if your weapon fails at any point, do not use it. get it sorted out, or you might be facing federal charges....or worse.

keep in mind this is a basic function check. it checks your selector and sear reset for safety. that is all. also if you're just doing the test once, it might not catch a problem if your weapon is doubling one time out of 10, lets say.

its not the end-all-be-all, it doesn't replace going over your weapon thoroughly, but it is something that should be done frequently.

[Dave L.]

If you replaced the trigger/hammer pins on a colt with the smaller .154 pins- it will do exactly what you are talking about.
Did you by any chance put KNS pins in that were the wrong size?

[mat10x]

this same thing has just recently been in the news. david olafson got 6 years in jail for an AR that double fired at the range. he had lent it to a neighbor to try out, i believe they were lookng to buy it. swat literally busted down his door (without a warrant), took all his weapons, he wasn't even home.

olafson is an avid gun collector, married with 2 kids, honorable discharge from the army after 16/17 years of service, no criminal record. 6 years for a malfunction.
there was also a recall on that particular manufacturer for that specific issue....the judge would not allow the manufacturers recall letter as evidence in the case. ATF tested the weapon, found that is was not a "machine gun". he still went to jail.

this was reported on the lou dobbs show several times on CNN. transcripts are still probably on CNN.com

[CWAmeden]

this same thing has just recently been in the news. david olafson got 6 years in jail for an AR that double fired at the range. he had lent it to a neighbor to try out, i believe they were lookng to buy it. swat literally busted down his door (without a warrant), took all his weapons, he wasn't even home.

olafson is an avid gun collector, married with 2 kids, honorable discharge from the army after 16/17 years of service, no criminal record. 6 years for a malfunction.
there was also a recall on that particular manufacturer for that specific issue....the judge would not allow the manufacturers recall letter as evidence in the case. ATF tested the weapon, found that is was not a "machine gun". he still went to jail.

this was reported on the lou dobbs show several times on CNN. transcripts are still probably on CNN.com


Whoa thats crazy. I was not double firing at the range due to their rule. you can onlly load one shell at a time. I haven't touched the gun, it is all stock, brand new.

[Ridgerunner665]

I haven't touched the gun, it is all stock, brand new.


Doesn't matter...if its double firing...send it back.

[geezerbutler]

this same thing has just recently been in the news. david olafson got 6 years in jail for an AR that double fired at the range. he had lent it to a neighbor to try out, i believe they were lookng to buy it. swat literally busted down his door (without a warrant), took all his weapons, he wasn't even home.

olafson is an avid gun collector, married with 2 kids, honorable discharge from the army after 16/17 years of service, no criminal record. 6 years for a malfunction.
there was also a recall on that particular manufacturer for that specific issue....the judge would not allow the manufacturers recall letter as evidence in the case. ATF tested the weapon, found that is was not a "machine gun". he still went to jail.

this was reported on the lou dobbs show several times on CNN. transcripts are still probably on CNN.com


I found mention of this on Cnn's site.

To quote what I found.....

a copy and paste

>>>>>>An update now on a story we first reported to you last month. LOU DOBBS TONIGHT has now learned the government is seeking an even tougher sentence than we originally expected against Army veteran and reservist David Olafson of Wisconsin.

Speaking of cases difficult to understand, try this on for size. Olafson was convicted of, "transferring a machine gun" after his rifle misfired at a shooting range. The government is seeking a sentence of three-and-a-half to four years against Olafson.

This Army veteran, a man with an otherwise absolutely clean record and a wife and three children. His sentence is scheduled for May 8. Now we don't know what's going on. We've been reporting on it. Bill Tucker has been out to -- to meet with Olafson or report on the story.

Now the National Rifle Association's civil rights defense fund said it has this case under review. We'll, of course, keep you informed on this incredible story. Bill Tucker will be amongst those going out to Wisconsin to find out what is going on in that state. It is really an incredible story.<<<<<<<<<<<<<

the link is here and the actual text is way down the page

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/10/ldt.01.html






See new thread here which contains actual ATF press release concerning his conviction for 18 USC 922 (O)

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=15215

[geezerbutler]

I did some follow up online on David Olafson and came up with this:


take it with a grain...

http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/category/guns/gun-rights/

Go down to May 22 on the blog and there is a supposed post from David Olafson concerning his case and some of the facts in the case.

here is the text, copied and pasted from this site, which I am completely unfamiliar with.





Response from David Olofson
Posted by: Sebastian in Gun Rights
It’s in the comments, but I thought it deserved to be elevated to a post.

I’ve been pretty busy lately so I have not been doing much in the way of posting corrections, but it was whispered that it was important to keep the facts straight here. I personally was hoping with all the information I put out there it would help keep the mythology to a minimum. I see in this case you have fallen for some of the hearsay out there.

“When served with a federal search warrant, the smart thing to do is shut up and get a good lawyer. Posting about your case for the world to see is not a wise idea when the federales come knocking down your door. “
That is the prevailing wisdom of attorneys. I take a differing viewpoint in situation like I find myself in. That is when you are innocent of any crime people will not know of the injustice unless you put information out there. If I had not keep people up to date on a day by day basis you would not know of this now. What good does it do Americans if they don’t know what their government is doing?

“It’s rarely a winning strategy to represent yourself, and using a disbarred lawyer to help you doesn’t sound like one either. This is probably a big reason why NRA didn’t get involved. Most competent attorneys who practice gun law are able to get that kind of help, but NRA has to be asked. “
You will not find anywhere that in THIS case I represented myself. Nor did I ever hire or use a disbarred attorney. What did transpire is my first attorney got removed from federal practice (State practice was allowed to my understanding) over what the first judge in this case (Stadmuller (Ph)) called gross incompetence in missing filing dates and the like. As for the NRA they have been invited in and according to my current attorneys have accepted. They are not alone in this as other organizations are helping out as well, to include the second amendment sisters, the GOA, LEAA, and JPFO.

“Ignoring advice of real lawyers who say a legal argument that challenges jurisdiction of the federal argument to charge you won’t do anything except piss off the judge strikes me as a bad idea as well. “
The jurisdictional challenges of interstate commerce were not issued in this case at any point.

“The kid he lent the AR to made a sworn statement that Olofson had told him not to move the selector into the unmarked burst mode setting because it was missing “some type of thing.” That type of thing would likely be a drop in auto sear. “
While that could be inferred it is untrue. Check the affidavits I posted, they tell a much more detailed story. Also I don’t believe this weapon would take a DIAS, but having never tried it can’t say for sure; maybe Len Savage got a good enough look at it to make that determination.

“Why would you lend an AR that has been partially converted to someone, when you can probably bet they are going to actually try pushing the selector past fire?“
You wouldn’t. I didn’t either.

“Olofson’s AR contained numerous M16 parts. As far as I know, some manufacturers in the 70s and 80s used some M16 parts in their AR-15s, like bolt carriers and hammers, until the ATF issued a ruling that the practice be stopped. Olofson’s AR had an M16 trigger, disconnector, selector, and hammer. As far as I know, there weren’t any manufacturers that used this many M16 parts in their ARs. The agent who examined the parts, correctly in my view, stated that this did not constitute a machine gun, but ATF has long held M16 parts in an AR to be a no no. “
If you review trial transcripts you will find they were made that way. For ease of reference I’ll post some of the transcripts here.
Testimony of ATF Agent Max Kingery:
Q. In your training and experience as an expert on AR-15 weapons, you’re aware, of course, that many AR-15 weapons, especially those manufactured in the ’80s, were manufactured with some M-16 internal parts?
A. I’m aware that some were, yes.
Q. Did you ever contact SGW/Olympic Arms about this particular rifle?
A. No, sir, I did not.
Q. Are you aware that SGW has recalled this particular rifle?
A. No, sir.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. FAHL:
Q. Now, going to Mr. Haanstad’s questions about firing three rounds and jamming. Why would somebody design a gun to fire three rounds and then jam, have to eject the bolt, start all over, fire three rounds, jam, and do that?
A. They would not do so, sir.
Questioning of Len Savage:
Q. And which fire control components would be used generally when manufacturing this type of rifle?
A. When that particular firearm was manufactured in the serial number range?
Q. Yes.
A. They would have used an M-16 trigger, disconnector, hammer. Sometimes a selector, sometimes not.
Q. And when you did your visual inspection what did that reveal?
A.That it was standard for the firearm that was built in that era. It also revealed that it had an AR-15 bolt carrier, not an M-16 bolt carrier.

“Implying that the ATF broke into your house and planted evidence is not going to work with a jury unless you have other evidence to back this up. Admitting you disposed of evidence doesn’t seem like a good idea either, especially when the evidence in question was the one part in question that would make the AR a fully working machine gun. “
I myself did not say they did. But I find there are some interesting coincidences.

“I don’t blame NRA for not getting involved in this case, because a) they were never asked, and b) the case is a bloody mess, with a poor defendant and a poor circumstances. “

I believe A was already addressed, as for b I couldn’t agree more.

“We have to choose our battles carefully, and this isn’t a case I’d want to use to challenge ATF.” I for one plan on pursuing this to the ends of the earth, and not just for my own benefit. If you continue to let evil go on its merry way what reason do you ever give it to change? Your personal opinion of me aside; do you really think we can afford to let a ruling that makes all guns MG’s in the eyes of the law stand?

Hope this clears up your misconceptions of the case. Please read the postings on arfcom for details and follow my posts to avoid the hearsay.

10 Comments »

[toddackerman]

Do you think this is something the local gun shop can fix, or should it be sent out to Colt?


This is an obvious factory error (if the gun is new). Don't trust a high grade Colt AR to a local gunsmith when Colt should repair it for free under warranty.

[ST911]

A gun doubling is a little different than a gun in burst mode.

And different than the Olafson case.

OP: Might your dealer have swapped parts, "tuned", or "improved" the gun prior to purchase? Markings on the parts?

[CWAmeden]

A gun doubling is a little different than a gun in burst mode.

And different than the Olafson case.

OP: Might your dealer have swapped parts, "tuned", or "improved" the gun prior to purchase? Markings on the parts?

I don't know, I wouldn't even know what to look for really.

[Iraqgunz]

The other day I was think about this situation. Then I remembered hearing from an associate that he heard there was some assclown dealer taking the Colt FCS parts out of some guns and putting other makers crap in there. I guess it is entirely possible that something like this occured.

In this situation I would send the gun directly to Colt and have them examine the gun and see if;

A) parts that are not of Colt origin were substituted.

B) parts that are currently installed are defective.


A gun doubling is a little different than a gun in burst mode.

And different than the Olafson case.

OP: Might your dealer have swapped parts, "tuned", or "improved" the gun prior to purchase? Markings on the parts?

[Iraqgunz]

Dave,

Just curious as to who makes .154 diameter pins? When I went through the Colt Course (3 times) they state and put in their handouts that the pins are
.155 diameter.


If you replaced the trigger/hammer pins on a colt with the smaller .154 pins- it will do exactly what you are talking about.
Did you by any chance put KNS pins in that were the wrong size?

[tinman44]

this is easy one and there should be no discussion, send it to colt. the fact we are talking in detail makes me believe someone is looking for a way to make their rifle double and not remedy it.

[DocMinster]

this is easy one and there should be no discussion, send it to colt. the fact we are talking in detail makes me believe someone is looking for a way to make their rifle double and not remedy it.

The other day I was think about this situation. Then I remembered hearing from an associate that he heard there was some assclown dealer taking the Colt FCS parts out of some guns and putting other makers crap in there. I guess it is entirely possible that something like this occured.

In this situation I would send the gun directly to Colt and have them examine the gun and see if;

A) parts that are not of Colt origin were substituted.

B) parts that are currently installed are defective.


I agree.... as stated above by the illustrious Iraqgunz ...don’t give it to some assclown dealer...send it back to Colt ...ASAP

Good Luck
Doc

[CWAmeden]

Thanks guys, i'll be sending to Colt asap.

[ST911]

The other day I was think about this situation. Then I remembered hearing from an associate that he heard there was some assclown dealer taking the Colt FCS parts out of some guns and putting other makers crap in there. I guess it is entirely possible that something like this occured.

Happens a lot.

At one particular dealer, the first red flag was when I asked to field strip one on the shelf.

Another lied outright about tampering with the internals of an otherwise NIB gun. The hodge podge of internals, and a hammer with a BM marking, gave him away.

Another, a swapped barrel.

Another... Oh nevermind. :)

[DocMinster]

Happens a lot.

At one particular dealer, the first red flag was when I asked to field strip one on the shelf.

Another lied outright about tampering with the internals of an otherwise NIB gun. The hodge podge of internals, and a hammer with a BM marking, gave him away.

Another, a swapped barrel.

Another... Oh nevermind. :)

holy smokes:eek:

Man I guess there are some dishonest assmonkeys out there huh.:mad: