View Full Version : Search for Deep Carry pistol ? My Wife finally wants to carry !!!!!
Well she has made a decision to carry and also wants to write about it so maybe other ladies can see that you don't have to dress like us guys to carry a self-defense firearm.
http://allthingstactical.wordpress.com/2014/05/05/concealed-carry-the-journey-through-a-womens-eyes/
We started with a Glock 42 which she really doesn't like. So the search will continue.
http://allthingstactical.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/img_0090-1.jpg
Mike
Five_Point_Five_Six
05-05-14, 18:40
Shield?
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Beat Trash
05-05-14, 19:18
What doesn't she like about the G42?
If we knew that, maybe we could suggest something.
What doesn't she like about the g42? for what its worth I would ditch .380 and step up to something in 9mm. Have you looked at the XDS 9?
Your/her more difficult option than finding the right gun for her, may be to find the right holster/carry position for her.
I am also very interested in carry options she tries, the hard part for my wife was/is nothing that works for me carry wise, works for her. Mostly because women are built different than men, and her hip bones present a unique challenge comfort wise, and her boobs prevent a clear view in the 4-5 o'clock position, that and the fact she is not as open to slightly change her attire, and I am not talking about a major wardrobe change, at least not my opinion.
AIWB seemed to be the best option for her, but some issues were kydex/good leather seemed to be too rigid, and the softer holsters did not hold up. I personally am leery of AIWB even though it is considered safe and endorsed by many, simply due to the fact it violates a major rule of gun safety in my mind, always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, and my femoral artery/Junk aint in a safe direction.
AIWB seemed to be the best option for her, but some issues were kydex/good leather seemed to be too rigid, and the softer holsters did not hold up. I personally am leery of AIWB even though it is considered safe and endorsed by many, simply due to the fact it violates a major rule of gun safety in my mind, always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, and my femoral artery/Junk aint in a safe direction.
If you carry a gun you're pointing it at some part of your body at some point, period.
Training, and due diligence prevents negligence. It is not an absolute, but with any risk, comes a reward. IF AIWB is the only place your wife can carry, would you rather she NOT?
I'd look at the G19, G26, Shield, Kahrs, and assorted J-frames.
Okie John
No question Sig P938 (9mm).
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IMHO, the J frames are horrible little pistols for women. My wife likes the form factor of mine well enough but it's a painful gun to shoot. She would never practice with it. OTOH, she does really like the PPS she's had for about 3 years. Primary reason is the single stack grip. She hated the fat stubby grip of the G26 with no 4th and 5th finger support, hated the concept of a manual safety, so the Shield was out. Kahr was an option, but reliability and feeding didn't get high marks. PPS has fulfilled her expectations. She has the same styling compromises you mention...she refuses to make them. She carries in a purse, sometimes OWB in a Speed Scabbard, and sometimes in a holster shirt. I have a holster shirt too for my own PPS (I recently gave in and got one) and I have to say its a very comfortable and very discreet method of carry, especially for a flat single stack like the PPS. Only thing I've ever used that allows convenient carry in hospital scrubs.
http://static.511tactical.com/mag/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/220x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/4/0/40011_019_Alternate1.jpghttp://static.511tactical.com/mag/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/220x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/0/30012_010_Alternate1.jpg
walkin' trails
05-05-14, 21:58
I finally fired a Shield 40 a couple of weeks ago. I expected it to be harsh as I dont really care for a 40 in anything. It was surprisingly shootable, controllable, and very accurate. I can't vouch for reliability, but it didn't jam with any of the 25 rounds I fired.
As far as 5-shots go, they're terrible guns for anyone who doesn't want to take the time to train with them. If one becomes proficient, they're a very versatile carry gun.
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What would your wife's preferred method of carry be? Does she have any difficulty cycling the slide due to slide spring tension?
These would be factors when making a recommendation.
SeriousStudent
05-05-14, 22:06
IMHO, the J frames are horrible little pistols for women. My wife likes the form factor of mine well enough but it's a painful gun to shoot. She would never practice with it. OTOH, she does really like the PPS she's had for about 3 years. Primary reason is the single stack grip. She hated the fat stubby grip of the G26 with no 4th and 5th finger support, hated the concept of a manual safety, so the Shield was out. Kahr was an option, but reliability and feeding didn't get high marks. PPS has fulfilled her expectations. She has the same styling compromises you mention...she refuses to make them. She carries in a purse, sometimes OWB in a Speed Scabbard, and sometimes in a holster shirt. I have a holster shirt too for my own PPS (I recently gave in and got one) and I have to say its a very comfortable and very discreet method of carry, especially for a flat single stack like the PPS. Only thing I've ever used that allows convenient carry in hospital scrubs.
....
There is a lot of really good advice in this post. An Airweight J-frame can be a much more difficult pistol to shoot well.
Two very skilled self-defense instructors I know, have bought a PPS for their wives and/or daughters, and they tell the ladies like AND CARRY them a lot.
I always recommend an M&P shield9 because I think its the best gun of its size out right now. Practice with the safety- dont use it(turn to fire after holster). You can remove it if you really feel the need. I know the gun, and think its the best for $ right now.
For people that cant shoot 9mm well, id suggest a glock42. Walther pps seems good, but it seems like a $750 shield.
What it comes down to IMO is:
Caliber (puts the 42 low on the list-I really suggest sticking with 9)
Reliability (tied with # 1 in reality)
Size(were down to those 3 when talking deep concealment, and the shield is at the big end of the stick)
shootability - depends on shooter.
price
Hope this helps.
Averageman
05-05-14, 22:33
I'm in a similar situation. I bought a S&W model 10 to CC at work, my Mom loved the gun so I gave it to her. She carried it for years and now it's a bit difficult for her to manipulate.
So what should her next pistol be? Easy to manipulate, soft trigger, low recoil?
My wife purse carries a PM9 off duty. She seems to like it.
I've shot it and didn't care much for it at all.
I'm trying to get her to switch to a Shield 9. I offer and offer to let her shoot and carry my Shield 9 but she refuses.
As for the G42. She won't go below 9mm.
AIWB is the best option for me. I was not comfortable when I started years ago but now I'm very comfortable with it.
Then again, I started off AIWB'n a SA V10. I know. Not the best choices at all but I was a young and dumb rookie piglet and thought I was going to save the world. I was an idiot. Hahah
I first tried a G19,3913 and 442. My wife is not a shooter, she finally settled on a 43c. I guess it's better than nothing.
I know you may feel .380 is underpowered, but my wife has a S&W Bodyguard. Small, lightweight, DOUBLE ACTION (not likely to AD with a LONG trigger pull), and not going to kick hard enough to scare her. While a larger caliber might be preferrable, it's a way to get women, who might otherwise be relectuant/scared to carry, to get used to the idea and might actually carry it regularly. Once you get them over the 'fear factor' then you can introduce larger calibers. It's all about changing their mindset and getting them to carry DAILY.
Beat Trash
05-06-14, 09:29
My wife purse carries a PM9 off duty. She seems to like it.
I've shot it and didn't care much for it at all.
I'm trying to get her to switch to a Shield 9. I offer and offer to let her shoot and carry my Shield 9 but she refuses.
As for the G42. She won't go below 9mm.
AIWB is the best option for me. I was not comfortable when I started years ago but now I'm very comfortable with it.
Then again, I started off AIWB'n a SA V10. I know. Not the best choices at all but I was a young and dumb rookie piglet and thought I was going to save the world. I was an idiot. Hahah
I would suggest you consider your self lucky. The fact that your wife wants to carry off-duty, and the fact that she is aware enough not to want to go below a 9mm. I own both a PM9 and a pair of 9mm Shields. I prefer my Shield to the PM9, for about all uses I may now have. But with that said, I'd take my PM9 9mm over just about any 380.
Bersa Thunder 380. Easy for a female to rack the slide and smooth trigger. Wife loves her Bersa and shoots it very well.
The regular one, not the CC. Better sights.
I would suggest you consider your self lucky. The fact that your wife wants to carry off-duty, and the fact that she is aware enough not to want to go below a 9mm. I own both a PM9 and a pair of 9mm Shields. I prefer my Shield to the PM9, for about all uses I may now have. But with that said, I'd take my PM9 9mm over just about any 380.
I consider myself very lucky!!!!! My friend just got his Shield 9 back stippled and trigger guard under cut.
It feels better than my stock Shield 9. He has agreed to do mine.
Howdy,
Purse carry is a very, very bad idea.
Why?
Simple. When a BG attacks a woman the first thing they do is take away their purse.
Oh, your wife carries her purse cross body. Even though this protects the purse from a purse snatcher, if gives the BG a great weapon to use against your wife. The BG can grab the body of the purse and swing her around very easily.
The average man is much bigger, heavier and stronger than the average woman and can easily manhandle them.
So, when the BG snatches your wife's purse away from her or uses it to bounce her off the nearest wall, dumpster, SUV, etc. her handgun is in her purse and out of reach.
BGs that attach women are usually pretty we'll train on what to do and how to do it.
Keep the gun on your body at all times. Even if the BG is on top of you and pounding your head into the sidewalk if your gun is on your body, especially in the hip area, you can still draw and shoot the BG.
This is one of the many lessons that we have or should have learned over the Zimmerman/Martin incident.
HTH
Paul
Howdy,
Purse carry is a very, very bad idea.
May be true. It's a compromise that my wife makes. She's unwilling to forego the style choices. She'll carry on-body if a given clothing choice makes it conveniently feasible.
If you carry a gun you're pointing it at some part of your body at some point, period.
Training, and due diligence prevents negligence. It is not an absolute, but with any risk, comes a reward. IF AIWB is the only place your wife can carry, would you rather she NOT?
I agree with your statement, however I Never said she NOT carry. I just wanted her to be aware of all issues, pros and cons associated with various carry methods. I have carried AIWB, but do have some hangups, although it is the quickest access, it is not comfortable for me when doing anything other than standing.
If AIWB works for someone great, utilize the method that best suits your personal preference.
IMHO there is negligible if any difference in recoil between a sub 9mm and 380, and many of the 9mm mentioned are very soft shooters.
Good Luck to the OP in his wife's quest. I am interested in following the link he provided, and hopefully can gain some useful information.
May be true. It's a compromise that my wife makes. She's unwilling to forego the style choices. She'll carry on-body if a given clothing choice makes it conveniently feasible.
If someone has elected to carry off-body in a purse, why go for a single stack 9 that has a bit more felt recoil than say a shootable 9mm compact like the PPQ (which I know you're a big fan of from your posts).
My wife and I settled on the Kahr CW9 9mm pistol---lightweight, reliable, accurate and reasonably priced---a little bigger than the PM9, but I find the slightly larger pistols are more reliable and allow for a better grip.
And yes, J-frame revolvers are a VERY poor choice for women---ask me how I know...
did allot of research on my first CC pistol and decided on the Bersa BP 9 CC
great feeling slim single stack 8+1, great trigger outa the box, but others may think
its 3.5lb to light for CC. if u ever get a chance to shoot one give it a try.
If someone has elected to carry off-body in a purse, why go for a single stack 9 that has a bit more felt recoil than say a shootable 9mm compact like the PPQ (which I know you're a big fan of from your posts).
Mainly because the PPS is the pistol she owns. She likes it and finds it very shootable. She's not a "firearms enthusiast". No desire to own more than one gun. Besides, sometimes, if she decides to carry, she carries on-body. Pancake or holster shirt.
Beat Trash
05-08-14, 09:21
Mainly because the PPS is the pistol she owns. She likes it and finds it very shootable. She's not a "firearms enthusiast". No desire to own more than one gun. Besides, sometimes, if she decides to carry, she carries on-body. Pancake or holster shirt.
I owned a PPS at one time. Great gun. I only sold it because I had to chose between the PPS and the Shield I just purchased. It was a tough call.
Your wife could do a lot worse than have a PPS as her carry gun.
Like shoes if you have a choice pick the most comfortable. My wife likes the Ruger sp101, the J frames ok, semis any style or size or caliber doesn't want anything to do with them.
decodeddiesel
05-14-14, 23:58
After spending a lot of time helping my wife research in preparation for her getting her CCW, I am starting to find that holster selection is probably more important than pistol selection. My wife weighs right around 105, and is a tiny woman. She is not at all interested in purse carry, or a "flashbang bra"; rather she wants to carry IWB or possibly OWB at 3:30.
Anyone have any good suggestions on places to look for holsters designed with women in mind? She's looking at a G42, a S&W Shield, and a Walther PPS.
Howdy,
Purse carry is a very, very bad idea.
Why?
Simple. When a BG attacks a woman the first thing they do is take away their purse.
Oh, your wife carries her purse cross body. Even though this protects the purse from a purse snatcher, if gives the BG a great weapon to use against your wife. The BG can grab the body of the purse and swing her around very easily.
The average man is much bigger, heavier and stronger than the average woman and can easily manhandle them.
So, when the BG snatches your wife's purse away from her or uses it to bounce her off the nearest wall, dumpster, SUV, etc. her handgun is in her purse and out of reach.
BGs that attach women are usually pretty we'll train on what to do and how to do it.
Keep the gun on your body at all times. Even if the BG is on top of you and pounding your head into the sidewalk if your gun is on your body, especially in the hip area, you can still draw and shoot the BG.
This is one of the many lessons that we have or should have learned over the Zimmerman/Martin incident.
HTH
Paul
You bring up some very good points, but some women wear a lot of clothing without belt loops. What kind of secure holster would you recommend for a woman who wears clothing sans belt loops?
Requirements for my girlfriend: small grip (small hands) and no safety or decocker (consistent trigger pull and gun goes bang when trigger is pulled). She has a LCP w/ a Chrimson Trace in a Mitch Rosen OWB holster. This is a very manageable set up. But she wanted a 9mm so she just picked up a XDs. Nice shooter for a small single stack 9! Working on how best to carry.
This lady reviews a number of carry options for women (both guns and holsters): http://www.youtube.com/user/faliaphotography.
steve462x0
05-15-14, 18:29
Try a G26, great gun
I am thinking about choices for the girlfriend also. I'm sure there have to be some switched on females on the site that could provide some valuable insight(if they already haven't?). I only know a few of these ladies so I would appreciate hearing from them and the rest of you. Please make it clear what sex you are, so my ignorant self can start disseminating the knowledge. Thanks in advance.
turnburglar
05-15-14, 19:13
Ruger lcp with a quick clip. No holster neccesary and works with everything down to yoga pants.
My wife had real DGU situation long before I came into the picture, where a .25acp got the job done with a single shot. While in HS my buddy got murdered with a single 22lr. In Afghanistan I saw afghans survive everything from 50 cal to 30mm. I often think caliber snobs are fooling themselves into trying to make the wrong gun right.
Remember guns are not magic omens that ward off evil. Without training they can turn quickly into a liability.
Fair warning I have not had time to read the whole thread yet, BUT, Panteao Productions just started streaming a great video titled "CONCEALED CARRY SKILLS FOR LADIES" by Nikki Turpeaux. If you have access watch it as I learned a lot just screwing around and burning some time as I try to get my girlfriend engaged.
After spending a lot of time helping my wife research in preparation for her getting her CCW, I am starting to find that holster selection is probably more important than pistol selection. My wife weighs right around 105, and is a tiny woman. She is not at all interested in purse carry, or a "flashbang bra"; rather she wants to carry IWB or possibly OWB at 3:30.
Anyone have any good suggestions on places to look for holsters designed with women in mind? She's looking at a G42, a S&W Shield, and a Walther PPS.
AMEN TO THAT! That was the hardest part for me and my wife, and although we do get along very well, we had more differences of opinion on holsters. Currently she has decided on a Crossbreed style. I have a Crossbreed and love it so it was the first one I recommended, but that recommendation went over like a turd in the punch bowl.
I finally took her to the local tactical shop, where a women we know works. They looked at holsters and girl talked while I looked at guns. She recommended the AVA IWB, they had it in stock, and my wife said OH I Like This One! When I asked my wife what the big difference was she told me it was the way I explained things and the way I talked to her. +1 for Girl Power. What ever it takes to make it work. Good Luck and let us know what she decides. There may be a better option out there.
Voodoo_Man
05-17-14, 09:38
I have a female friend that is going to start carrying.
We are going to get her a custom bellyband setup made and have a custom kydex insert sown into the band. When she goes for it I'll post pix.
Heh. If there was one universal best option for carrying a pistol, there wouldn't be a thousand holster manufacturers and we all wouldn't have drawers full of holsters.
You bring up some very good points, but some women wear a lot of clothing without belt loops. What kind of secure holster would you recommend for a woman who wears clothing sans belt loops?
Purse carry, OWB (my wife prefers a leather pancake), or this. Her pants are too tight for IWB and she won't sacrifice the fit to do it.
http://static.511tactical.com/mag/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/220x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/0/30012_010_Alternate1.jpg
decodeddiesel
05-17-14, 15:58
I finally took her to the local tactical shop, where a women we know works. They looked at holsters and girl talked while I looked at guns. She recommended the AVA IWB, they had it in stock, and my wife said OH I Like This One! When I asked my wife what the big difference was she told me it was the way I explained things and the way I talked to her. +1 for Girl Power. What ever it takes to make it work. Good Luck and let us know what she decides. There may be a better option out there.
That's a big deal I have found. I simply can't believe how many men working at gunstores are WORTHLESS when it come to showing my wife different guns. Yesterday we looked at the PPS again, and my wife wanted to try dry firing it. She shoots with a modern thumbs forward grip, and the gun store employee immediately told her that "the slide will rip those pretty little thumbs right off if you shoot the gun like that. See the slide actually moves when the gun shoots, and it will take your thumbs clean off!" I started to say something and my wife said "You know I have shot a gun before, and even my husbands 1911 and I still have my thumbs". The moron then demonstrated some ****ed up thumbs tucked Steven Seagal grip and a weaver stance as the "right way" to shoot a pistol. We just shook our heads and left the store.
Every male gun store clerk treats her like a dumb broad when showing her weapons, and suggests that a 9mm or a .45 is way too much for her. They are constantly trying to stick either an LCP, or a j-frame, or a .22 in her hands. :rolleyes: It's getting really old really fast.
When we commented that my wife is getting her CCW one jackass commented "oh well, you have to go through a LOT of training and classes and hoops to get that. I'm not sure you're ready." Then he made a comment about how foreigners shouldn't be allowed their permits, and I was pissed. My wife is Ukrainian, and we spent literally thousands of dollars, and years of our time to get her here LEGALLY. She intends on becoming a US citizen and cherishes every single day she spends here, and never takes anything for granted. We had a talk with his manager about it, and he informed me that they wouldn't sell guns to immigrants, green card holder or not. I left a nice little 1 star rating on yelp for that one.
We actually got some outstanding customer service from a gal working the counter at the Cabelas in town here. A 50 something FUDD guy was "helping" us, she saw how frustrated my wife was getting with the "help" and took over. She actually took the time to show us about 10 different pistols, was very knowledgable, and told us some of the ways she carries and some of the holsters she uses. Turns out she shoots IDPA as well and actually got my wife all amped up to try shooting IDPA this summer. I just wish they were all like that. :(
Beat Trash
05-17-14, 16:33
The world could use a few less FUDDS. Glad to see your wife taking her responsibilities as a future citizen so serious.
Find a Fuddless store with a PPS in stock and have your wife try dry firing it. She'll most likely like what she finds. I shoot with a thumbs forward grip and owned a 9mm PPS for a time. No issues shooting the gun. Actually, after shooting my PPS for just a magazine or two, I quickly started to compare the performance of the gun to various full size duty pistols. It's easy to forget you are shooting such a compact pistol when using a PPS.
The wife tried in this order LCP,G26, SW Mod-30-1 3" in smart carry or purse in N-4 pocket holster. Loaded with a 32cal. 100gr flat-tip at 900+fps she can keep them centered and walk a soup can near 6 out of 6 shots. Pull and shoot J-frame in 32 sw long with good load. Easy to load,shoot and clean for her. Keep it simple.
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