View Full Version : Converting buis to 45 degree offset buis
Has anyone taken their standard backup iron sites and converted then to 45° offset backups. I've seen 45° offset amounts, however, I was not certain whether that would work with the irons, as most of them are made for red dot sights. Does anybody have any info or a link to what might work?
Failure2Stop
05-08-14, 07:42
You can pretty readily source offset rails, but they are not as optimized as dedicated offset irons.
Has anyone taken their standard backup iron sites and converted then to 45° offset backups. I've seen 45° offset amounts, however, I was not certain whether that would work with the irons, as most of them are made for red dot sights. Does anybody have any info or a link to what might work?
"Mounts"? 45* mounts that have little rail spaces will work for anything that can attach to those rails.
Have you checked BCMs site?http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/YHM-9691A-3-Slot-Angle-Riser-Yankee-Hill-Machine-p/yhm%209690a%203slot%20angle%20riser.htm
Thanks. I wasn't sure if the extra height of those offset rails would cause problems with zeroing the irons. If not, it is something I would look at. I just didn't want to make the investment and find out I have a problems zeroing the irons due to elevation adjustment issues.
Thanks. I wasn't sure if the extra height of those offset rails would cause problems with zeroing the irons. If not, it is something I would look at. I just didn't want to make the investment and find out I have a problems zeroing the irons due to elevation adjustment issues.
Well, if your irons are at 45 degrees, yes, zeroing is going to be a bit different.
What causes you to consider doing this?
Obviously, I understand the zeroing will be different. I just am not sure if the extra height of the offset mounts would make me run out of elevation adjustment, as compared to the dedicated offset sites.
Obscenejesster
05-08-14, 07:54
Well, if your irons are at 45 degrees, yes, zeroing is going to be a bit different.
What causes you to consider doing this?
He probably has some high magnification variable that isn't capable of 1x.
I am only doing it because that's what all the cool kids do. The rifle has an optic on it, however, not a low-level magnification option. Frankly, I would like to be able to practice with the buis more often with the quick transition. At the time I bought my backup Sites, however, the offset option really not common. Hence, my thought for converting it. If anyone has converted their older backup iron sites, their input and the mount they used would be great.
Failure2Stop
05-08-14, 08:24
Well, if your irons are at 45 degrees, yes, zeroing is going to be a bit different.
What causes you to consider doing this?
Offset irons are common for those that use hard-mounted optics, first popularized by 3-gunners, and are gaining popularity in more "serious" circles.
The zero isn't really all that different as long as the line of sight over bore is similar, as the gun is rolled over to access the offsets, which puts the offsets in traditional alignment with bore.
Exactly, my optics are hard mounted and not with QD detachment. If the additional height does not appear to be an issue with zeroing , then it appears I am a go. It will allow me to train much more often with the buis due to the quick assessability.
For how precise a anybody can be running irons sights from a partially rotated position, minor details like height over bore and having some slight offset from being directly over the bore when ran at 45' are actually pretty minor, just pick a distance where you can make the POI/POA intersect, and accept that either side of it you start to lose a bit of precision. It's a lot of the same deal with IR lasers, they aren't really POA/POI outside of one distance, but the improvement it provides is significant enough that nobody minds or cares.
For my part, I run them on low powered variables because I can't run cowitnessed optics, and these are the next-best thing, but the difference is I'm running bespoke 45' offset sights (KAC) because those are the best way to do that out there.
matthewdanger
05-08-14, 13:15
Proper, dedicated offset iron sights are not just X number degrees to the top rail, they are X number of degrees rotated on the axis of the bore. Sights like the Dueck Defense RTS sights and similar will zero just like normal sights (50/200 zero, etc) since they are on the axis of the bore like normal sights. I have a set of RTS sights with a pretty solid 50/200 yard zero on them. The only slight variation in the 200 yard POI has more to do with the rail not being perfectly true to the upper receiver than the fact that they are offset irons. I get hits on a C-zone steel out to 300 yards (as far as I have tried them) with same consistency as I do with normal iron sights.
If you just place sights on most of the 45 degree offset rails on the market, you will have to choose a single distance where the path of the projectile will cross the line of sight. These rails will place your sights at 45 degrees offset to the top rail - not the axis of the bore - which is a big difference. The above scenario with a normal zero will not work. Depending on what you actually need from these sights, that may be acceptable to you.
If you are dead set on using the sights you have rather than purchasing dedicate offset sights, JP Rifles makes detachable offset rails that 45 degrees on the axis of the bore. I would rather have a proper solution like those than just any old 45 degree offset rails.
Proper, dedicated offset iron sights are not just X number degrees to the top rail, they are X number of degrees rotated on the axis of the bore. Sights like the Dueck Defense RTS sights and similar will zero just like normal sights (50/200 zero, etc) since they are on the axis of the bore like normal sights. I have a set of RTS sights with a pretty solid 50/200 yard zero on them. The only slight variation in the 200 yard POI has more to do with the rail not being perfectly true to the upper receiver than the fact that they are offset irons. I get hits on a C-zone steel out to 300 yards (as far as I have tried them) with same consistency as I do with normal iron sights.
If you just place sights on most of the 45 degree offset rails on the market, you will have to choose a single distance where the path of the projectile will cross the line of sight. These rails will place your sights at 45 degrees offset to the top rail - not the axis of the bore - which is a big difference. The above scenario with a normal zero will not work. Depending on what you actually need from these sights, that may be acceptable to you.
If you are dead set on using the sights you have rather than purchasing dedicate offset sights, JP Rifles makes detachable offset rails that 45 degrees on the axis of the bore. I would rather have a proper solution like those than just any old 45 degree offset rails.
^^^ What he said! GH
Proper, dedicated offset iron sights are not just X number degrees to the top rail, they are X number of degrees rotated on the axis of the bore. Sights like the Dueck Defense RTS sights and similar will zero just like normal sights (50/200 zero, etc) since they are on the axis of the bore like normal sights. I have a set of RTS sights with a pretty solid 50/200 yard zero on them. The only slight variation in the 200 yard POI has more to do with the rail not being perfectly true to the upper receiver than the fact that they are offset irons. I get hits on a C-zone steel out to 300 yards (as far as I have tried them) with same consistency as I do with normal iron sights.
If you just place sights on most of the 45 degree offset rails on the market, you will have to choose a single distance where the path of the projectile will cross the line of sight. These rails will place your sights at 45 degrees offset to the top rail - not the axis of the bore - which is a big difference. The above scenario with a normal zero will not work. Depending on what you actually need from these sights, that may be acceptable to you.
If you are dead set on using the sights you have rather than purchasing dedicate offset sights, JP Rifles makes detachable offset rails that 45 degrees on the axis of the bore. I would rather have a proper solution like those than just any old 45 degree offset rails.
Even if there's the ability for the shooter to line up the blade of the front sight (particularly if it's not perfectly perpendicular) as long as the actual point of aim is directly over the bore when shooting, the phenomenon of the POI trace through space traversing the sight picture laterally stops happening; so if the shooter is bringing the irons at that point to a point directly over the bore when rotating the rifle, it is rotated and directly above the bore axis, and while some of the adjustments might be a touch wonky, once zeroed they'll be spot on.
For any of the cases where I see offset irons being really used extensively, they don't need to be exactly perfect, but ideally a solid 200m or 300m zero sets up a pair of offset irons for their entire useful range brilliantly.
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