View Full Version : Reloading M882 9mm NATO ammo
BOOSTjunkie
05-08-14, 19:17
Ive given up on my search for handgun powder and Im down to only ball ammo in my supply inventory (although quite a few).
I have many hundreds of rounds of military issue M822 9mm NATO stamped WCC (Winchester).
Im thinking about pulling the bullets out of these cartridges and re-seating some 124 and 147 grain HPs in them while reusing the powder, case and primer. 147 grns to make subs for shooting suppressed. Im running into some issues finding the particular specs on this cartridge especially powder type.
Anyone did this before?
Anyone have any info of the particular specs of this round?
Any info on seating depth? I know the NATO is loaded pretty hot and seating depth will be critical.
Thanks for the help!
I know the NATO is loaded pretty hot and seating depth will be critical.
NATO 9mm ball isn't that hot. If you want to step on the gas a bit, I'd choose a +P variant.
I believe 9mm NATO is loaded with power pistol. AA7 or Power Pistol should get you to where you want to be, but good luck finding them.
I wouldn't. Pulling bullets and trying to load using an unknown powder is a PITA, and potentially dangerous.
American made powders are harder to come by these days due to the demand, and the fact the US ammo makers tend to buy up what stock is available. Foreign powders such as Vihtavuori aren't used by US manufacturers as much, so they tend to pop up on the market more often. It is more expensive, but it is clean burning, meters well, and isn't effected much be weather conditions. Vihtavuori N320-N350 work well with 9mm. I prefer 3N37 for 147gr though.
I would use the M882 rounds for training...
NATO spec for 9 mm (STANAG 4090) allows for a VERY wide margin of power. Now that most submachine guns have been replaced by assault rifles the rounds are normally loaded just a hair hotter than normal SAAMI specs, below SAAMI +P pressure in most cases. That is the case with modern (made in the last 10 years or so) M882 ammo.
I would't be afraid of reusing power and primered cases, but I have a ton of experience doing so with lots of manuals, etc. I don't recommend that for anybody that has to ask.
I agree. I'd blast away with that stuff. I pull down a lot of rifle ammo for primed, crimped brass, but I don't see any value in this for pistol. Pistol cases don't separate, and their primer pockets don't stretch out like rifle.
The 9 mm cases in particular, are perhaps the stronger cases around. Splip cases are very rare, and if you load them decently they live forever until lost somewhere.
See brunoshooters.com and note that some powder is in stock. I suggest calling them with a list of possibles for your needs.
Beware of retipping your Win 9mm ammo.
Also, since ammo companies buy their powder in bulk, loading data is determined by testing a particular lot. A lot might consist of a ton of powder. So anybody using surplus powder must work up a load from an estimated starting point. Thus, you're not likely to find loading data for currently used powder produced for commercial production of millions of rounds per year.
BOOSTjunkie
05-09-14, 19:36
See brunoshooters.com and note that some powder is in stock. I suggest calling them with a list of possibles for your needs.
Beware of retipping your Win 9mm ammo.
Also, since ammo companies buy their powder in bulk, loading data is determined by testing a particular lot. A lot might consist of a ton of powder. So anybody using surplus powder must work up a load from an estimated starting point. Thus, you're not likely to find loading data for currently used powder produced for commercial production of millions of rounds per year.
No luck... Ive given up I cant find pistol powder anywhere!
BOOSTjunkie
05-09-14, 19:37
I would use the M882 rounds for training...
NATO spec for 9 mm (STANAG 4090) allows for a VERY wide margin of power. Now that most submachine guns have been replaced by assault rifles the rounds are normally loaded just a hair hotter than normal SAAMI specs, below SAAMI +P pressure in most cases. That is the case with modern (made in the last 10 years or so) M882 ammo.
I would't be afraid of reusing power and primered cases, but I have a ton of experience doing so with lots of manuals, etc. I don't recommend that for anybody that has to ask.
I hear yah... I wish I had stocked up on pistol powder while it was available...
Boostjunkie, I sent you a pm.Williejc
No luck... Ive given up I cant find pistol powder anywhere!
Be patient. It will appear here and there if you are vigilant. I always seem to find something when I get close to drying up. Don't expect to come across the real popular stuff like Alliant Power Pistol and Winchester though. Think stuff like Ramshot Trueblue, Vihtavuori, or IMR. Again, most of my powder stocks are Vihtavuori these days simply because they become available more often than the others.
Localgrizzly
05-12-14, 14:49
In some parts of the country you can find eight pounders, even of the more popular powders, at places like Sportsman's Warehouse. Some of them have HS-6. One of the most versatile powders made for heavy handgun loads.
BOOSTjunkie
05-12-14, 15:50
Further research on the intarwebs have revealed the following
Cartridge designation: US M882 ball
Cartridge OAL:1.165inches or 29.591mm
Powder used: HPC-26
Powder weight used: 6.0 grains
Case Mouth Pressure: 31,175psi (avg), 36,250psi (max)
Bullet weight: 112 grains
Bullet length: .610 inches or 15.494mm
Bullet velocity: 1263fps measured @ 15 feet
However... when I started to autopsy my rounds i found the following
Cartridge designation: US M882 ball
Cartridge OAL:1.155 inches
Powder used: ?
Powder weight used: 6.0 grains
Case Mouth Pressure: ?
Bullet weight: 124 grns
Bullet length: .6 inches
Bullet velocity: ?
It could be that the above was for a 112 grn bullet while these were 124s
Further research on the intarwebs have revealed the following
Cartridge designation: US M882 ball
Cartridge OAL:1.165inches or 29.591mm
Powder used: HPC-26
Powder weight used: 6.0 grains
Case Mouth Pressure: 31,175psi (avg), 36,250psi (max)
Bullet weight: 112 grains
Bullet length: .610 inches or 15.494mm
Bullet velocity: 1263fps measured @ 15 feet
However... when I started to autopsy my rounds i found the following
Cartridge designation: US M882 ball
Cartridge OAL:1.155 inches
Powder used: ?
Powder weight used: 6.0 grains
Case Mouth Pressure: ?
Bullet weight: 124 grns
Bullet length: .6 inches
Bullet velocity: ?
It could be that the above was for a 112 grn bullet while these were 124s
NATO loadings have some of the most random, and unpredictable ammo lots. Different powders, different COALs, different charges, etc. The only real requirement is that the COAL not exceed 1.165", and that it meet a certain velocity requirement. They could be using a fast powder, or a slow powder.....you never know.
Localgrizzly
05-13-14, 14:01
I've seen and used NATO 882 in 112, 115 and 124 grain bullet weights.
The pressure spec surprises me for NATO ammo. The original NATO 9MM was supposed to be loaded to European standard which is around 35.5 to 36 KCUP.
Can't believe that the Europeans are very happy about having their 9MM ammo neutered down to SAAMI spec.
NATO sttandard 9 mm "superloads" have largely disappeared... regarding muzzle energy, the standard is exceptionally lax. And the current use for 9 mm is pistols, not pistol caliber SMGs that want to extend their range because there is nothing else available.
According to STANAG 4090, the test barrel is 7.85", the muzzle energy must be between 400 and 600 ft·lbf, and bullet weight between 108 and 128 gr.
This means that a humble SAAMI spec 115 gr 9 mm load that has about 1130 fps in a 4" barrel, but probably does about 1270 fps in a 7.85" barrel (with 412 ft-lbs) meets the NATO spec.
I am reloading 9mm right now with Berry's 124 gr. FMJ and 4.7 grains of Winchester Auto Comp for powder. Range report to follow.
Localgrizzly
05-15-14, 10:38
NATO sttandard 9 mm "superloads" have largely disappeared... regarding muzzle energy, the standard is exceptionally lax. And the current use for 9 mm is pistols, not pistol caliber SMGs that want to extend their range because there is nothing else available.
According to STANAG 4090, the test barrel is 7.85", the muzzle energy must be between 400 and 600 ft·lbf, and bullet weight between 108 and 128 gr.
This means that a humble SAAMI spec 115 gr 9 mm load that has about 1130 fps in a 4" barrel, but probably does about 1270 fps in a 7.85" barrel (with 412 ft-lbs) meets the NATO spec.
That's a shame. The "old" NATO ammo was great. It was the same mmo that Europe had used since the 1900 era. It was never too hot for European pistols, exept maybe the Glisenti.
The original 9 mm loadings were not really hot, according to all the old ammo and firearms manuals I've read. The "hot" loadings started previous to WWII (finnish, italian, the later Canadian, perhaps someone else) in an effort to increase range of the 9 mm SMGs, but most loads in WWII were just like normal SAAMI loads of today (115 gr at 1140-1200 fps, or 124 gr at 1070-1120 fps, out of a 4" barrel). Today's better SAAMI +P loads beat/equal even the hotter loads used in WWII, with lower pressures.
The Thompson-Lagarde tests of 1904 lists a luger 9 mm, 4" barrel, 8 gram (123.5 gr) bullet at 1048 fps.
anachronism
05-18-14, 16:24
Buy as much powder as you can find, make your powder search a daily thing, and you will come up with some. Buy as much as you can afford, none of this 1-2 lb sort of thing, four to eight lbs is optimal for a single handgun caliber. Then select loads from a reputable source and load up. AA#7, WSF, Unique, Herco, and other powders of this burning rate are what you really need.
What about Titegroup powder, is it any good? My local dealer is getting some in the 4lbs. container. He said it was good for 9mm, .45ACP, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, and a host of other handgun cartridges.
What about Titegroup powder, is it any good?
I've used it for 45 acp. Works great. To me... any of the WIN or Hodgdon pistol powders is fine. I couldn't care less. Give me the powder, I'll load it to max, and shoot on.
What about Titegroup powder, is it any good? My local dealer is getting some in the 4lbs. container. He said it was good for 9mm, .45ACP, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, and a host of other handgun cartridges.
I've used it in .45ACP and .44 special and it has done quite well.
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