View Full Version : 9mm Hollow Point Expansion Results
Jwknutson17
05-11-14, 11:44
Had a little extra time yesterday and figured I would show my findings of some 9mm HPs and there expansion. Shot them vertically into a 55 gallon drum of water. Directly into the water with no obstructions.
From left to right on the picture. ALL 9MM
Speer Gold dot 124+p...Federal HST 147gr... Hornady Critical Defense 115gr... Winchester White Box 115gr JHP ...Remington UMC 115gr JHP
Personally I carry the GDHP 124+p.
SpankMonkey
05-11-14, 12:24
Great pic.
These two (Federal HST 147gr... Speer Gold dot 124+p) have really got a following now. My EDC is the Speer 124+p. has been for 15 years.
If I could find the Federal locally I would consider carrying it after some serious practice.
Cool pics, but my understanding is that water is not a useful medium in terms of making conclusions on terminal ballistics per se. For example, early expansion before reaching critical depths would be a negative in terms of terminal ballistics effects, but may get those effects in water and other mediums.
Dos Cylindros
05-11-14, 13:48
The water test medium aside, I have been consistently impressed with the expansion of the HST rounds. I just wish they were easier to come by.
The water test medium aside, I have been consistently impressed with the expansion of the HST rounds. I just wish they were easier to come by.
Indeed. The HST is a vetted rnd that tests well in accepted protocols and always on the short list for an excellent choice. I grab a box when I see it. One LEO supply store in my area is the only local place I tend to see it.
Jwknutson17
05-11-14, 14:00
I didn't have a way to use Ballistic gel and I understand the difference between. I used what resources I had to at least somewhat verify "first hand" the difference. Thought I would just share my findings. It at least told me to KEEP the gold dots in my carry gun! :D I use the HSTs in my XDS when light clothing permits I carry that pistol.
Jake
I didn't have a way to use Ballistic gel and I understand the difference between. I used what resources I had to at least somewhat verify "first hand" the difference. Thought I would just share my findings. It at least told me to KEEP the gold dots in my carry gun! :D I use the HSTs in my XDS when light clothing permits I carry that pistol.
Jake
There was no criticisms intended in my comments. I just didn't want someone to conclude X was better than Y due to water testing per se.
Jwknutson17
05-11-14, 16:11
There was no criticisms intended in my comments. I just didn't want someone to conclude X was better than Y due to water testing per se.
No worries. I totally agree. The more insight/info the better. I appreciate you clarifying the different potential results with water and their expansion. Didn't really think about it until your post.
Quick Draw
05-11-14, 19:34
Even though they were fired into water, the HST and GD do look wicked!
I got a screaming deal on some 9mm +P HST here from the EE and found a few boxes locally. Glad to have them in all my guns now. They sure have a very nice expansion.
Jwknutson17, are you sure those bullets are listed correctly? That looks like a Gold Dot on the far left, followed by the HST.
Jwknutson17
05-11-14, 23:09
Jwknutson17, are you sure those bullets are listed correctly? That looks like a Gold Dot on the far left, followed by the HST.
You are correct. The HST is 2nd. Corrected original post. Just to verify I weighed the bullets and you are correct. I would say fat fingers is to blame... But there are too many letters messed up in a row, so that excuse doesn't work.
FloridaWoodsman
05-12-14, 02:20
A water test is good to determine if an expanding bullet will retain its jacket or not. My criticism of cheap brands lies largely in that area.
More dense target material is going to somewhat close the gap on expansion differences. Not that expansion is everything - If it doesn't expand, it will go deeper.
I didn't have a way to use Ballistic gel and I understand the difference between. I used what resources I had to at least somewhat verify "first hand" the difference. Thought I would just share my findings. It at least told me to KEEP the gold dots in my carry gun! :D I use the HSTs in my XDS when light clothing permits I carry that pistol.
Jake
Dammmm, XDS, Your gonna get burned for that one on here! AND a 45 that does not expand is as big as a 9 that does!
Seriously though I am a fan of the XDS too, and either Gold Dot or preferably HST.
Just curious if they are the GDSB rounds, or the standard rounds, and why you use GD in one and HST in the other??
I did lots of research because I always want to find the perfect shit for everything, and if you look hard enough you can find someone that tells you what you want to hear. I also find it interesting that Federal does not offer a short barrel round to compete with Speer.
I prefer to stay with standard GD or HST in any caliber. For me, recoil wise, if I am going to shoot +P, I might as well shoot 40, and if I am going to shoot 40, I might as well shoot 45. BUT in the end Shot Placement Trumps All.
Thanks for the info, I always find it interesting.
Jwknutson17
05-12-14, 09:42
Dammmm, XDS, Your gonna get burned for that one on here! AND a 45 that does not expand is as big as a 9 that does!
Seriously though I am a fan of the XDS too, and either Gold Dot or preferably HST.
Just curious if they are the GDSB rounds, or the standard rounds, and why you use GD in one and HST in the other??
I did lots of research because I always want to find the perfect shit for everything, and if you look hard enough you can find someone that tells you what you want to hear. I also find it interesting that Federal does not offer a short barrel round to compete with Speer.
I prefer to stay with standard GD or HST in any caliber. For me, recoil wise, if I am going to shoot +P, I might as well shoot 40, and if I am going to shoot 40, I might as well shoot 45. BUT in the end Shot Placement Trumps All.
Thanks for the info, I always find it interesting.
I carry a glock 19 (summer) and between a 17 and 19 winter. The xds is my "workout gun" If I go for a jog or bike ride or anything like that, My XDS in single clip small kydex holster will fit perfectly in my Compression shorts/boxers with gym shorts over. No belt. Still doesn't move. I do not care for the 40 round. I had 2 glock 22s and a P226 in a 40. Sold them all. I hate how snappy the 40 is and my follow up shots are not as effective as with my 9mms. That being said, I standardized every pistol I have to 9mm. Train with 9mm and I have the quickest and most accurate groups/follow up rounds on target. Agree with shot placement is the most effective way. Caliber doesn't make a difference if you cant hit anything. Back to the HP topic. I do not notice much difference in recoil felt with the +p rounds compared to the standard gold dots. I normally carry all gold dot +p rounds in everything. The wife was carrying the XDS for a while and she preferred the HST. And I am not against the round at all. Only have one box left of those though. And a lot of gold dots. I do not download the mags and switch them out for the 1 hour I carry that pistol at a time. Wife normally has a M&P with her and takes the XDS sometime. The HST rounds just feel better in the XDS so they stayed in there. No big deal. Waiting for Glock to come out with a 9mm single stack and that would mean the XDS would go away. Now Ill prob get some heat for having all glocks and M&Ps and only in 9mm ;);) Thanks for the reply's and info everyone.
Howdy 42Jwknutson17,
Interesting post.
The next time I get attacked by a 55 gallon drum of water I'll know which gun and round to use to defend myself.
In all seriousness the water drum test is a quick and simple way to check the expansion of a bullet and if it will retain its jacket.
Man is a fluid body made up of water and other fluids and if a bullet will not expand in a water drum it will NOT expand in the human body.
As far as the 9mm debate goes........... I own 18 handguns and only one is a 9mmx19 ( a Kel Tek PF-9 ) and there's a reason why I only have one 9mmx19.
Paul
9mm, Gold Dot or Fed HST 124gr or 147gr.
+P in the 124gr ballistics is almost 357 Sig ballistics without the blast and recoil. Or $$$$$
plouffedaddy
05-12-14, 14:16
Dammmm, XDS, Your gonna get burned for that one on here! AND a 45 that does not expand is as big as a 9 that does!
Seriously though I am a fan of the XDS too, and either Gold Dot or preferably HST.
Just curious if they are the GDSB rounds, or the standard rounds, and why you use GD in one and HST in the other??
I did lots of research because I always want to find the perfect shit for everything, and if you look hard enough you can find someone that tells you what you want to hear. I also find it interesting that Federal does not offer a short barrel round to compete with Speer.
I prefer to stay with standard GD or HST in any caliber. For me, recoil wise, if I am going to shoot +P, I might as well shoot 40, and if I am going to shoot 40, I might as well shoot 45. BUT in the end Shot Placement Trumps All.
Thanks for the info, I always find it interesting.
For those with short barreled carry guns, here's a test I did of a few rounds (some the same as the OP) through my Shield in clear ballistcs gel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMyGhLuXYXQ
Jwknutson17
05-12-14, 15:16
For those with short barreled carry guns, here's a test I did of a few rounds (some the same as the OP) through my Shield in clear ballistcs gel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMyGhLuXYXQ
Excellent. Thanks for the video. Little more time and effort went into that I see then my "high tech" water test. :D
9mm, Gold Dot or Fed HST 124gr or 147gr.
+P in the 124gr ballistics is almost 357 Sig ballistics without the blast and recoil. Or $$$$$
In most situations, the .357 Sig is a solution in search of a problem. Never saw the reason to bother with it in modern JHP. Terminal ballistics wise:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b374/willbrink/ballisticchart7rk.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/willbrink/media/ballisticchart7rk.jpg.html)
Excellent. Thanks for the video. Little more time and effort went into that I see then my "high tech" water test. :D
Low tech has it's place too, as long as it's kept in context. It goes off the rails when people make conclusions and then decisions from it they shouldn't. I'd say that goes for most things in life :cool:
I got my M&P on my nightstand loaded with a mag full of Federal 124g HST. But at 38 bucks for a 20 round box at the local fun store, I think I'd rather bludgeon an intruder first :p How much you guys paying for it? I can't bring myself to shoot them at that price.
http://www.ammunitiondepot.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=P9HST1&CartID=1
About $45 shipped for a box of 50. $15 of that is shipping cost, so order a few boxes and the price gets closer to $70 per 100.
Regardless, you can do a lot better than the nearly $2 per round you are paying locally even if you only order a single box of 50.
Harold
ETA - corrected link
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I got my M&P on my nightstand loaded with a mag full of Federal 124g HST. But at 38 bucks for a 20 round box at the local fun store, I think I'd rather bludgeon an intruder first :p How much you guys paying for it? I can't bring myself to shoot them at that price.
I've seen 147gr hst for $27+shp/50 not to long ago. My buddy bought it(told him to, my money was being allocated elsewhere).
Grand58742
05-13-14, 02:07
I got my M&P on my nightstand loaded with a mag full of Federal 124g HST. But at 38 bucks for a 20 round box at the local fun store, I think I'd rather bludgeon an intruder first :p How much you guys paying for it? I can't bring myself to shoot them at that price.
Keep an eye on SGAmmo. They run the P9HST1 for $29.95 per 50.
Grab it quick when it comes in though. Popular stuff.
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