View Full Version : AA2495 for .223
Wimpy load data 101.
I found a pound of this extruded powder at Cabela's and decided to try it out. Being sick of wimpy, lawyer load data, I jump right in a MAX for a 77 SMK, which is 22.2 grains.
We chrono EVERYTHING in .223/5.56 on the same 20 inch HBAR for data comparability. So I lug that beast out and hook up the Magnetospeed and all that crap... and end up with a velocity of 2418 fps on their posted MAX. They list High 2700s out of their (probably 24") test barrel.
High 2700s out of our 20" is getting 5.56ish in pressure, and Low 2600s is a decent .223 load. Fukkin 2418 fps was a waste of damned good SMKs. :mad:
p.s. This shit bridged horribly in my Dillon 550b. I had to load it on the Chargemaster.
Don't buy this crap.
SeriousStudent
05-12-14, 21:26
Thanks for taking one for the team, Mark.
Thanks for taking one for the team, Mark.
Now that's f-ing funny!
On a more serious note: Mark have you ever done any testing using older manuals? I know I know...powders change and all that jazz but since we in theory should be working up loads for max effective properties per weapon; I was just wondering if you had noticed any correlation to older data in conjunction with the newer powders of similar name?
That is garbage for a max load from a 20 Inch barrel. I hate newer loading data. I wish I had a couple of the older books I got rid of. I think hornady is the worst.
Newer load data is why I basically only use load mins. I will use the max as a guideline, but when working up loads I usually go past max by at least a grain. If I dont see pressure I move up another grain in small increments.
I use a chrono during load work ups to make sure im not in no mans land. Im glad I have not needed any powder so I do not have to deal with any of this bs. I know you have powder mark m and probably did not need to do this but thanks for the info.
Im just glad powder and primers is not a week spot in my loading supplies.
I've not looked at any older data. I'll probably just load the rest of this powder behind some 69 gr Nosler slingin' ammo.
The bridging was the icing on the cake. I quit after 3 attempts to charge on the Dillon. If you weren't watching every powder charge, you'd easily get some half or zero powder charges.
Localgrizzly
05-13-14, 12:40
Thanks for the info. I've never used that powder, but it's supposed to be similar to 4895 from what I've read.
I've never had any bridging problems with IMR 4895 in my Dillon loading .308 or .30-06. After your experience, I doubt I'll even try it in the small neck of the 5.56.
BTW, I've noticed a huge difference in "reloading" manuals v "Lawyer" manuals. My standard 9MM load with HS-6 under a Remington 115 FMJ chronos ~1350 FPS. My powder charge is well over max in the new Hornady Manual, and well UNDER max in my older manuals. My loads work safely and well in a Glock, two SIGs, a Berreta and a CZ.
With H335, the Hodgdon website shows max at around 22-23 grains for M193 ball, but my older manuals show 26.0
A procedure that has worked well for me over the years.
I will "average" the starting loads and maximum loads from four or five manuals, and then start working up half way between these averages.
IME, case life, i.e. the number of times you can reload a case is one of the best indicators of maximum pressure. Once I develop a load that I like, I'll load a batch of 10 cases until one fails. If I can't get five loads from a case, I back off a bit. (Interestingly, my 9MM +P+ loads generally give me 10-12 loadings. Makes me wonder if they really are +P+ or if that WCC brass is super strong:confused::confused:)
Thanks for the info. I've never used that powder, but it's supposed to be similar to 4895 from what I've read.
I've never had any bridging problems with IMR 4895 in my Dillon loading .308 or .30-06. After your experience, I doubt I'll even try it in the small neck of the 5.56.
The powder kernels don't LOOK like it'd be a problem... not as fine as H322 or Benchmark, but not long cut or anything. Man... The first charge didn't fill the case right, then the second leaked powder all over... and I think 1 or 2 more after that were about half charges....
Good to know, thanks.
Actually one of the side benefits of this crappy shortage of components is that is forces us to try out new products. Of course, some work fine (AR-Comp shows promise for me) and some just constitute a lesson learned.
Yeah... this stuff is marketed as great .308 powder and also good for heavy .223 bullets.
It might shoot great for all I know. I just need it to go 250+/- fps faster.
SeriousStudent
05-13-14, 22:48
Now that's f-ing funny!
.....
I meant it. The man bought a pound of powder and posted the results. I know to stay away from it now. I'm one of those folks that wanders into Cabela's looking for Ramshot Tac every few days. I might have made a silly decision, in a moment of weakness.
Not kicking you or anybody else in the groin, just explaining.
Yeah... If I needed ANYTHING just to push a bullet out my barrel, I'd use it, and figure out a load. Just frustrating that their data is so far off, and that the stuff sucked in my Progressive.
I'm about done driving over to Cabelas anymore. Last Friday they had ZERO powder. Not even 50 BMG or Magnum rifle powders. Strange because Bullets, and Primers are all over, and Ammo is piled up everywhere.
Coal Dragger
05-14-14, 09:17
Thanks for the heads up. Powder is still hard to get in my area too for some reason but if I see any of that crap I'll just pass on it.
SeriousStudent
05-14-14, 21:37
Yeah... If I needed ANYTHING just to push a bullet out my barrel, I'd use it, and figure out a load. Just frustrating that their data is so far off, and that the stuff sucked in my Progressive.
I'm about done driving over to Cabelas anymore. Last Friday they had ZERO powder. Not even 50 BMG or Magnum rifle powders. Strange because Bullets, and Primers are all over, and Ammo is piled up everywhere.
Here they have a lot of powder for 50 cal's and shotguns. A little rifle powder, but it goes fast. Primers are abundant here, like your place.
I'm trying the remember the last time I saw Bullseye at Cabela's.
Rimfire and Gun Powder are the last items to fall back in line. We still have to go through the IN STOCK, but OVERPRICED phase of this charade. :( Ammo is in the middle of that phase right now.
Localgrizzly
05-15-14, 10:12
Remember that "The greatest gun salesman in history" caused several million people to buy guns that never owned them before. Those folks need ammo.
Add to that, a couple of million folks who always wanted to reload, but "never quite got around to it" started panic buying equipment and components. Demand exceeded supply by a large amount. For most of last year, it was darn hard to find presses and dies. Those folks need components.
Look for availability to loosen up after the mid-term elections, when some of the panic cools. (Assuming, of course, that the "good guys" win.):)
Yep. It'll be a good thing in the long run when there's a glut of components.... I hope.
eightmillimeter
05-15-14, 14:12
Yeah... this stuff is marketed as great .308 powder and also good for heavy .223 bullets.
It might shoot great for all I know. I just need it to go 250+/- fps faster.
You'll come in slower on the .308 as well, it behaves like IMR4895 burn rate wise but does not have the same oomph.
I meant it. The man bought a pound of powder and posted the results. I know to stay away from it now. I'm one of those folks that wanders into Cabela's looking for Ramshot Tac every few days. I might have made a silly decision, in a moment of weakness.
I
Not kicking you or anybody else in the groin, just explaining.
Right on and No worries...I wasn't taking it that way.
I agree: I appreciate the heads up on that powder as well as the additional insights provided here on this forum.
You'll come in slower on the .308 as well, it behaves like IMR4895 burn rate wise but does not have the same oomph.
THANK YOU!! (for saving me the temptation of wasting more time on this stuff.) Believe me... the 308 thought crossed my mind....
This stuff is going to get burnt up in blaster practice ammo. The crappy thing is I have to run it through the chargemaster because it bridges so badly.
THANK YOU!! (for saving me the temptation of wasting more time on this stuff.) Believe me... the 308 thought crossed my mind....
This stuff is going to get burnt up in blaster practice ammo. The crappy thing is I have to run it through the chargemaster because it bridges so badly.
Send it to me, I'll weigh it by hand with a smile.
Yeah.. no kidding. If this powder is the worst thing to happen to me this spring, I'm doing good.
At least I didn't buy 8 lbs of it.
Mark, since this is a powder thread...what is "nasty" about H355 besides the flame out the barrel? Does it leave chamber excessively fouled compared to other powders? I picked up a jug the other day due to almost empty shelves locally. Haven't loaded any to shoot yet,I'm keeping it for just in case and/or our annual night shoot.
Some dude on another forum explained the chemical output that caused that massive fireball. I forget what he said.. some sort of nitro gas expulsion from the burn. Ball powder in general is avoided by some of the precision snobs. Some variants leave calcium carbonate build up in the middle of the bore.
H335 is just the beastly sibling of the ball powder category.... on the opposite end we have 748 which is low flash and low flame temp.
Thanks Mark. I've used lots of 748, time to unleash the beast.
Accurate 2495 is their version of 4895. 22.2 would be WAY low and slow. It's long-grain so you have to use a drop tube. Probably better out of a powder measure (like a Redding BR3) than a Dillon.
H335 is a rough civil equivalent to military 844. Hodgdon doesn't make their own powder, rather it re-labels bulk propellant from sources like General Dynamics - Saint Marks.
Accurate 2495 is their version of 4895. 22.2 would be WAY low and slow. It's long-grain so you have to use a drop tube.
Yep.. That part that pisses me off is that they list 22.2 as max... and that's barely a decent starting load. I've got no problem getting enough powder in the case because 22 grains doesn't take up much case capacity.
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