Tolerances on powder measure

[BCO30]

I have a question on powder charging some of you more experienced reloaders can help me with. I am using a Dillon xl650 and Iam reloading 45 acp as of now. It seems that in the second station Iam priming the empty case, belling the mouth of the case and then charging the case, my question is that it seems like im getting inconsistent powder charges. Once I get my powder measure throwing 5.5 grains it seems like the consistency will change. If I leave for a minute and come back and start again station 2 will throw 6.0 grains on the very first round started. I guess that leaves another question if you know that you don't want the caliber you are reloading to go below a certain threshold. For example, you try to keep the load between 5.3 and 5.7?

Basically, I trying to keep from having a squib but at the same time not damage my firearm or myself. How exact are other reloaders keeping their powder charge tolerances?

thanks.

[markm]

I set mine up so I get an average right around my desired charge. The powder measure should slide a full cycle back and forth. When I fill the hopper I always toss the first charge back into the hopper. After that, I just watch every case to see that it's not a double and not empty.

[125 mph]

What powder are you using? The most variance I've ever seen in pistol rounds on a dillon was with Unique, and I think that was still only a range of .2 grains.

Unless your really pushing the envelope (which for pistol rounds I see no reason to do), .1 or .2 grains either way won't make a huge difference at the range. I personally wouldn't tolerate a lot more variation than that, though, but that's just my own comfort level.

[Ttwwaack]

If I leave for a minute and come back and start again station 2 will throw 6.0 grains on the very first round started.

I find the same true. When filling an empty hopper with a new powder I'll probably throw 10 charges to settle the column then work the top half - 3/4 of the hopper and refill. After refilling, or any other operation; I.e. mouth expander misses the mouth and splits the case, I step away from the machine for a few minutes, ect., I'll dump the next charge or two.

Consistant speed and force seating primers will help also. When I really have to force CCI primers in I've noticed fluctuations. Hand priming is helpful as Markm does.

Size of the flake of powder also adds to inconsistency. I gave up 800x in 40 S&W for this reason. I still occassional load it in hot 10mm but it is individually weighed.

[BCO30]

Im using Bullseye. The disk shaped powder grains. It may also be that Im only filling the hopper about a 1/4 or less. As I draw down the powder it becomes more inconsistent towards the very bottom. Filling the hopper 1/2 full maybe creates more consistency. Just a theory. Thanks.

[taliv]

for pistol i don't think it matters all that much. one thing you can do is fold a card and stick it in the powder measure so it looks like an A. this will take pressure off so that regardless of how much powder is in the measure, it meters the same.

my 1050 throws titegroup within .1 grain. it just meters very well. but even if it were .2 i wouldn't care.

the other thing to watch is that you operate the press slowly and smoothly. if you get all herky jerky with it, you will probably find a lot of flakes of powder on the shell plate from where you're slinging them out as they travel around the plate.

[Maddmax]

I am VERY anal when it comes to reloading. Lessons learned from my younger years pushing the limits and shooting competition. My reaction time was good,but I was getting beat by score. That changed when I figured out it was my powder charge. I have my powder drop set up to drop in a cup,dump it on the scale and trickle it to the exact weight. Takes time,but my loads are consistant with tight groups. Then it's up to me to make it work. I was having trouble with inconsistant loads from different powder. Some I could actually feel. I also prefered powder that best filled the case for a more consistant burn.

[Localgrizzly]

I've never had a variation of over .2 grains with pistol powders, (except Herco and 800X)

I operate the handle smoothly, keep the hopper at least 1/2 full and weigh a charge every 100 rounds.

With ball powders, I get .1 grain consistency on all of my Dillon measures.

If you're having trouble with Unique, try Hodgdon Universal or AAC #5.

If Bullseye doesn't throw consistently, send the measure back to Dillon for repair.

[shootist~]

You should not see .5 grains off in the example you mentioned (just leaving for a short period) - at least with most pistol powders. I load WST and VV-N320 and +/- 0.1 is the norm with a few going a little more. Being consistent on the power of your charging handle helps. Possibly a false reading due to static electricity on your person when you came back to you loading setup is my best guess.

What I've found over the years is the scale can vary even more than the powder measure - with electronic scales being the most likely to drive you nuts. But Beam scales are not fool proof either - my RCBS beam scale will always be off when I first start loading after a few days off. It won't be come back to zero using the previous balance setting. If I calibrate/re-balance it at the start of a session, I usually have to move the balance setting back towards the norm after a half dozen or so drops.

I waste a lot of time and sanity using both an electronic and a balance beam at the same time. Generally one or the other is telling me the powder measure is much closer than I used to think. If well into a loading session the balance beam is the most consistent (for me), but I tend to rely on the electronic scale more at the start of a session.

Again - I think static electricity is the primary culprit in getting potentially false readings. Poor quality scales comes in a close second. Every corner in the manufacturing process is cut these days.

[Chubbs103]

Are you using a baffle in the hopper? I do not used a dillon measure, however, I found it helped tighten my results with my RCBS measure. I got mine with some goodies my LGS threw in after a purchase, and there are plenty of methods of making your own (see post up above).

Chubbs

[jstone]

With my 550 if I leave it for a couple minutes the largest variation I have is + .1 grain. I always weigh the first few but they usually are dead on. I have micrometers on my powder bars and I use a baffle all from uniquetech.

When I bought the 550 I put the upgrades on before even using it. So im not sure if it makes a difference. The last load I did was some 9mm for a friend. Load was 4.6 of win 231using mixed cases, a 115 zero fmj, and a cci 400 primers(I know that is a srp I prefer them to spp and have been doing so for years). I was having some problems with the slide locking back. I thought it might be the load so I set up the chrono. I got 1158, 1161, 1159, 1163, and 1159. So they were not hot but should be fine to lock the slide. Further investigation showed it was a problem with one of my friends magazines. Switched the mag sslide locks back no problem.

I was very pleased with the consistency. Out of all the charges I weighed I only had a handful that were off and it was always only +- one tenth of a grain.

These results have been very typical with my limited use of my 550's pm. I have had it less than a year and all the powders I have used metered virtually the same. I have not run varget through it, but thats why I have the charge master.

[CrazyFingers]

Regarding the baffle suggestions, I use this: http://www.redding-reloading.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=40:match-grade-model-3br-powder-measure which came with a powder baffle. I've found that with rifle (IMR 4320) and pistol (Alliant Bullseye), I see no more than .1-.2 gr variation on thrown charges. Now, I've never tried running the powder measure without the baffle to compare, but the theory behind it certainly makes sense and the results are obvious.

[taliv]

heh, yeah that probably is better than the folded business card i've been using.

[BCO30]

I have a Dillon beam scale. which I have found now to be out of balance. I was also using a Hornady electronic scale (that I am not a fan of) the e scale is pretty accurate, measuring at 230 and 200 grain 45 acp, but its hard to read and seems real cheaply made. I don't see it lasting very long. I may have to bust loose on a little pricier scale from a reputable reloading company.

Thanks.

[anachronism]

It seems to me that the Dillon measure already had a built-in baffle that's part of the hopper. Because of Dillons powder measure design, powder doesn't seem to meter consistently until after a number of cycles. As the measure bounces up and down, the powder in it compacts slightly, until the powder in the hopper compacts to a certain point. Flake and stick powders are the worst offenders in this regard. I fill my measure with powder, then shake it a bit to settle the powder, which will settle noticeably, and you'll see the level go down as it does. Then I set my charge weight, throwing ten charges into the powder scale pan and weighing it, then dividing the results by ten to get an average charge weight. Then weigh a single charge to see where it is compared to my desired weight, and make any adjustments necessary. Then throw ten more charges and weigh them again, once again dividing the total by ten to get the average. By this time, everything should be pretty settled, and weighing one more single charge should show that you're at a consistent charge weight. Your powder charge issues are simply being caused by powder settling in the measure as you use it. With ball powders, one cycle of ten should settle the powder adequately.

[BCO30]

Thanks. All great info. I had to fix about 250-300 rounds of 115 grain 9mm this weekend, that had been loaded too light and not crimped properly. I had switched to 45 and had been real successful with reloading it for the past few months, and was waiting for a free weekend to fix my 9 mm' s that I reloaded back during the winter. I was using a beam scale that was giving a false reading and loaded at 3.6 which is lower than what is recommended for Alliant Bullseye, also not crimped enough, which was causing feeding problems. I figured out my digital, as well as measuring the first charge after the powder settles, which is always heavier. Thanks for all the info. Its all trial and error.

[Coal Dragger]

I always toss the first charge in any run, rifle or pistol, off of my Dillons since I am never sure the charge bar picked up a full charge off of the newly added powder (I don't store powder in the hopper). With pistol powders I've never really noticed any variance greater than .1gr, the list of powders I've used is long but I mostly stick with flake or ball type powders in pistol rounds and they meter well.

In rifle the only powder that I have run through the Dillon powder measure is CFE 223 which is a very fine ball powder and in meters very very well. I was measuring every 10th charge with it at first and realized it was pointless. Now I measure every 100th round before filling back up on primers.

On my XL650 I am also using a powder check die in station 3 for both .223 and .45ACP. I now some dislike this system, but I have so far found it easy to adjust for a given load and particularly with the .45ACP throwing powders like Titegroup or Bullseye where charges are small I see it's value. It will detect a large variance in the load either too much or not enough, and you can tell on the indicator rod if you are getting variances up or down even if they are not enough to set off the buzzer or be dangerous. It is pretty much fool proof at detecting a double charge, or a squib load, I've intentionally tested it with both. For the .223 this system is not going to detect a double charge since the case won't hold all the powder, but if grossly over charged, under charged, or a total squib it will pick it up.

[Coal Dragger]

Oh as an experiment I set the charge bar on my Square Deal B to throw Power Pistol and ran it all the way down to having to look in the hopper from the top to see the powder. I then measured every charge until running out of powder, and they were still all spot on never varying by more than .1gr.

For what it's worth.

[DBR]

I have several Dillon powder measures. Some are very accurate with ball (+-.1gr) and flake powders (+-.2gr). A couple were not. Upon investigation, the powder bar did not move smoothly in the flawed ones. I took them apart and "blue printed" them by removing the tight spots with a fine file using a magic marker to identify the trouble spots. Now they are better than the other ones that I didn't think were bad.

These were all the original design with the return springs. I imagine the newer ones using the cam only would be even more sensitive to jerky motion. If powder is allowed to sit in the measure for more than a day or so it may absorb some moisture and get heavier for the same volume. I fill the measure to about an inch from the top and refill when it is about 2/3 empty. Filling less than this will cause erratic fills. When everything is working properly and using powder that meters reasonably well I find weights are stable after three "drops".