View Full Version : Which to buy - RobArms XCR's, MSAR STG 556, Piston AR15, Sig 556
ERT Trauma
06-02-08, 17:11
Looking to buy another rifle in 223/556 and wondering which to buy. Of the list below which is the better all around rifle (accuracy, durability,etc...) excluding cost.
RobArms XCR's
MSAR STG 556 - May wait for the other AUG Clone that takes AR mags
Piston AR15 upper
Sig 556
I don't know much about these rifles so, please tell me why you pick a certain rifle.
Or, should I wait for the Magpul Masada?
If you pick the Masada, do you know when its coming out?
Any other rifles I should consider
Stvkhalil@aol.com
A Magpul employee told me the Masada was pushed back to Q1 2009, if I remember correctly.
ERT Trauma
06-02-08, 17:34
A Magpul employee told me the Masada was pushed back to Q1 2009, if I remember correctly.
I guess I go with something else for now and get the Masada then.:D
How much do you plan to spend?
Jay Cunningham
06-02-08, 20:52
Looking to buy another rifle in 223/556 and wondering which to buy. Of the list below which is the better all around rifle (accuracy, durability,etc...) excluding cost.
RobArms XCR's
MSAR STG 556 - May wait for the other AUG Clone that takes AR mags
Piston AR15 upper
Sig 556
I don't know much about these rifles so, please tell me why you pick a certain rifle.
Or, should I wait for the Magpul Masada?
If you pick the Masada, do you know when its coming out?
Any other rifles I should consider
Stvkhalil@aol.com
What about a DI AR?
Soulrack223
06-02-08, 21:10
I was contemplating the same thing and ended up back ordering the new LMT piston upper. I am very interested in the ACR and the SCAR-H, but that's next year. The XCR, 556 and Aug clones left a lot to be desired IMO. The LWRC peeked my interest but my experience with my LMT Defender lead me to pick the new LMT. https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=5655&highlight=Piston
ERT Trauma
06-02-08, 21:18
What about a DI AR?
what is a DI AR?
what is a DI AR?
Direct gas Impingment.
Standard AR operating method.
Seth Harness
06-02-08, 21:29
what is a DI AR?
Non piston impingement. Direct impingement.
David Thomas
06-02-08, 22:07
Looking to buy another rifle in 223/556 and wondering which to buy. Of the list below which is the better all around rifle (accuracy, durability,etc...) excluding cost.
Any other rifles I should consider
I assume by the use of the word "another" that you have one or more AR15 rifles(s).
An often overlooked option for the 5.56x45:
106CR or 106FR
http://www.arsenalinc.com/slr106cr.htm
or
AK101 or AK102
http://www.ak-103.com/rifles.html
also see this thread for my opinion re: SIG 556
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=11981
Jay Cunningham
06-02-08, 22:38
I assume by the use of the word "another" that you have one or more AR15 rifles(s).
He didn't say that he had an AR, he said that he had a 5.56mm rifle.
I would be careful with the SLR-106 series rifles.
David Thomas
06-02-08, 23:21
He didn't say that he had an AR, he said that he had a 5.56mm rifle. .
Very true. Just an assumption on my part since the post was in the AR section and not "other assualt rifles" section/forum. Maybe the OP will provide more info.
I would be careful with the SLR-106 series rifles.
I thought the problems that Arsenal was having with the 106 had been identified and resolved. Still having issues?
Jay Cunningham
06-02-08, 23:32
I thought the problems that Arsenal was having with the 106 had been identified and resolved. Still having issues?
Yep...
what about the ak-103.com? Is he a reputable AK builder? That website is rarely updated.
Jay Cunningham
06-03-08, 09:48
what about the ak-103.com? Is he a reputable AK builder? That website is rarely updated.
He is probably the most reputable AK builder out there - his name is Chris Butler and he is AKUSA. No, his website never gets updated and yes he is expensive but does his work in a relatively timely fashion and it is almost always perfect.
Unsure if he stocks rifles - I would suggest calling him. He has told me in the past that he discontinued his own .223 AK-101 Saiga conversions due to reliability issues, FWIW...
ERT Trauma
06-03-08, 17:41
I assume by the use of the word "another" that you have one or more AR15 rifles(s).
An often overlooked option for the 5.56x45:
106CR or 106FR
http://www.arsenalinc.com/slr106cr.htm
or
AK101 or AK102
http://www.ak-103.com/rifles.html
also see this thread for my opinion re: SIG 556
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=11981
I have a 10.5 LMT AR15 and am looking for something else
I also would consider something with a 9 inch lower rail to put my LMT Railed M203.
Parabellum9x19mm
06-03-08, 17:55
I also would consider something with a 9 inch lower rail to put my LMT Railed M203.
:eek: i want 40 mike mike action so bad
even with just Tang rounds it would be fun.
but HEDP gold BBs would be even more fun :p
oh well
[/jealousy]
those rail mount M203s look pretty cool too.
a N4 Recce can be equipped with a 9.0 rail. that would make a good combo. no M203 notch and you still get to have your M203.
the only version it wouldn't work for is the VIS build.
I've had an XCR for a couple of years now.* It is my main duty rifle and I wouldn't trade it for anything else on the market.*
The reasons I like it are:All of the controls are laid out where I want them.*
I find the gun much more ergonomic than the AR which is pretty darn good in its own right.I like a folding stock and find the stock LOP ideal for me.* You can also custom order your LOP on the folder if you want.
AK operating system.* I like big steel pieces.* I like the big locking lugs, bigger extractor, etc.
I really like the adjustable gas system.* I run it on #1 for softest shooting and dial it up as it gets dirty.
Easily disassembled by the end user.* With nothing but hand tools and an allen wrench set I can completely disassemble the gun.
Eats anything from any mag that will lift a round.* I have seen the gun take mags from AR's that stopped them and work just fine.* I have fed it some rusty wolf and it fed and ejected them.* I have shot it in rain, snow, sand, and everything MO weather can throw at it with no problems.
Price--Compare an AR monolithic upper with rails and the upper usually costs as much as the XCR.
David Thomas
06-03-08, 20:57
I would be careful with the SLR-106 series rifles.
He is probably the most reputable AK builder out there - his name is Chris Butler and he is AKUSA...
...He has told me in the past that he discontinued his own .223 AK-101 Saiga conversions due to reliability issues, FWIW...
I guess that may be why it is an overlooked option. I came really close to buying one prior to buying my 107CR and hadn't ruled it out as an option. Thanks for the heads up.
variablebinary
06-04-08, 00:16
I am with Jeremy on this
I'd get the XCR. It can shoot 5.56 as well as those other guns but brings much more to the table.
QD barrel? Check
Monolithic rail system? Check
Free Float? Check
Multi caliber? Check - Want more punch, you got 6.8. Want cheap, there is 7.62x39. Want a 1000 yard gun, there is 6.5. All possible in under 2 minutes
The Masada isnt out, and wont be out till who the hell knows when.
He is probably the most reputable AK builder out there - his name is Chris Butler and he is AKUSA. No, his website never gets updated and yes he is expensive but does his work in a relatively timely fashion and it is almost always perfect.
Unsure if he stocks rifles - I would suggest calling him. He has told me in the past that he discontinued his own .223 AK-101 Saiga conversions due to reliability issues, FWIW...
ahh thank you much! So would you recommend ak-103/AKUSA over Arsenal?
Jay Cunningham
06-04-08, 10:20
ahh thank you much! So would you recommend ak-103/AKUSA over Arsenal?
They are two different things. Arsenal imports factory sporter rifles and converts them, and Chris does custom builds and work.
What is it specifically that you want?
i got a good deal and bought a bunch of AK mags (7.62), so now figure that I would need something to go with them. :) I am looking for a quality (Bulgarian? milled receiver? chrome-lined?) AK thats less than $1k.
Chris stated on his site that his AK-103 is a legal duplicate of the Russian AK-103. What does that mean? I noticed that his receiver is stamped, and not reinforced like the Bulgarian, does that matter?
Thanks!
Jay Cunningham
06-04-08, 10:39
Start a new thread so we can get this one back on track (5.56mm platforms) and I'll answer you there.
I just sold my XCR. IT was a good rifle, and what everyone else has said is very true about its strenghts. Its weaknesses are also pretty obvious: its a proprietary system, assembled by a small outfit. Given Robinsons inabilty to get any of their parts, kits, barrels, triggers, stocks... to market anywhere close to the time they promise, I got pretty concerned that I was shooting a non sustainable system (especially if there is a ban). The switchable barrel/caliber system is indeed an awesome feature, but at 550 each, the delta between a switchable barrel and an ar upper gets pretty narrow.
The afore mentioned AKs seem like a good choice. Also look into the AXR by TPD (the milled reciever aug clone) out of Oregon. Also, Steyr is apparently going to be producing an A3 here in the states that will be available for private purchase.
Start a new thread so we can get this one back on track (5.56mm platforms) and I'll answer you there.
Just did - https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=173762#post173762
Many thanks!
Scooter-PIE
06-15-08, 02:34
I owned a SIG556 and an LWRC M6A2-16in barrel. I ended up selling both of them.
The SIG556 was totally reliable, had soft recoil and was more accurate than expected(about 2MOA...very impressed for a CHF barrel). The SIG also has an adjustable gas system that came in handy. I had Hornady ammo that would not properly cycle one of my ARs and also caused the SIG problems. With the SIG, I could adjust the gas output higher and then the ammo worked perfectly. I was really torn about selling this rifle because it was so good. My main issue: it was significantly more "front-end heavy" than an AR. After trying this rifle, my appreciation for the ergonomics of an AR has grown. That said, the SIG556 is pretty damn nice.
The 16" LWRC M6A2 was also perfectly reliable and works as advertised. The rail was nice and it felt and handled just like an AR. That said, my decision to sell this upper was a lot easier than with the SIG. I have the following complaints about the LWRC:
1. Noticeably sharper recoil than a DI gun. I bought this for my wife to use for hunting. The sharper recoil was not a good thing.
2. Mediocre accuracy. I was getting 5MOA off a bench with a rear sand bag at 100yds. This may meet military specs, but as far as I am concerned, this sucks for an upper that costs $1500. When I spoke with LWRC, they said, "yep that is within specs." I said "yep, I'm selling this puppy and looking elsewhere." :) In all fairness, LWRC does sell rifles with better barrels and accuracy(the DMR). Only problem is those puppies are $2500 and you still have the sharper recoil.
I"m one of those folks that got caught up in the AR-piston craze. That caused me to purchase the SIG and LWRC. After these purchases I have a new-found appreciation for the beauty of a standard AR-15. I now own a 16" LaRue Stealth upper and a custom 20" AR. They are absolutely reliable, very accurate, and have great ergonomics. Although I am waiting for the ACR/SCAR to come out, I question whether either of these will really be an improvement over the standard, highly customizable AR. I place a premium on accuracy and the ability to put in a custom AR barrel is huge. The SCAR will have proprietary barrels and I'm not sure whether you can swap the ACR barrel for one of your choice. Therefore, the AR may still be the best option for me after these are released. That said, I have some cash set aside for a SCAR/ACR....can't help myself. :-)
ERT Trauma
06-15-08, 07:14
Well it looks like I'll have to test it out myself. I'm going to pick up the XCR first.
Then I'll wait for the AXR by TPD (aug clone) and the SCAR to come out.
With all this in mind I'll still run to my M14 first!
http://i25.tinypic.com/2lco8eo.jpg
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.