View Full Version : NEW Tactical Solutions 22 AR15 Barrel!!
We received our first shipment of the new TACSOL dedicated 22 barrels and bolt carrier groups. For those that don't know, TACSOL is making two distinct barrels. One is similar to their light weight 10/22 barrel (alum. housing with a SS liner) and the other is a traditional M4 profiled 4140 barrel.
What I like about these light weight barrels is that they are at least a full 10 ounces lighter than a 16" Govt profiled barrel (without the FSB)! That is a lot of weight savings.
The TACSOL BCG is similar in looks to the Ciener BCG's, but is much more refined and and clean looking. These BCG's are made out of SS and tool steel.
First impressions is that that TACSOL has a real winner on their hands. I fired about 100rds through the weapon (both supressed and unsupressed) without any issues. This is a vast improvement from some of the other systems I have used in the past.
Onto the pics...
C4
16" Barrel (threaded)
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22LWBarrel.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22LWBarrel1.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22LWBarrel2.jpg
BCG
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22BCG.jpg
Upper Build Specs:
VLTOR MUR
TACSOL 16" Barrel
TACSOL BCG
LaRue Tactical 11.0 FF Rail
AAC Prodigy
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22LW_Custom.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22LW_Custom1.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22LW_Custom2.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22LW_Custom3.jpg
thetallengineer
06-02-08, 17:35
That is a very nice .22 AR. Look forward to seeing the pricing on your website. Did you get a chance to test out for accuracy?
That is a very nice .22 AR. Look forward to seeing the pricing on your website. Did you get a chance to test out for accuracy?
We are stocking just the barrels and BCG's so the consumer can build it as they want. BCG and barrel will cost $430.
I have not had a chance to shoot groups yet.
C4
ChristopherM4
06-02-08, 19:41
Does the BCG run with standard BlackDog Machine mags?
Topher
Does the BCG run with standard BlackDog Machine mags?
Topher
Yes and one comes free with every barrel and BCG.
C4
FA capable?
I do not believe so, but they maybe doing a FA version.
C4
Can this be had in a 12.5" length? I may as well cancel my order since I never hear back from them and get one from you instead.
Grant,
Can you buy the BCG and drop into standard 223 as the Ciener conversion?
Robert
Did you get any of the steel M4 style barrels in too?
Nope (which is why you did not get a phone call). ;)
C4
Can this be had in a 12.5" length? I may as well cancel my order since I never hear back from them and get one from you instead.
They do not make them in that length.
C4
Grant,
Can you buy the BCG and drop into standard 223 as the Ciener conversion?
Robert
No.
C4
Did you get any of the steel M4 style barrels in too?
I'm interested in seeing one of these too. A flatop M4 dedicated .22 upper with the Blackdog mags would be just what I need to finally get to shoot more and still be sorta analogous to my "real" carbine.
ETA: Grant posted while I was typing. Any idea on if and what any difference in pricing for the M4-style set might be?
I'm interested in seeing one of these too. A flatop M4 dedicated .22 upper with the Blackdog mags would be just what I need to finally get to shoot more and still be sorta analogous to my "real" carbine.
ETA: Grant posted while I was typing. Any idea on if and what any difference in pricing for the M4-style set might be?
Just got an e-mail from Tom @ TACSOL and he advised that the M4 profiled barrels are on their way to us!
C4
thetallengineer
06-03-08, 08:52
I saw your reply about the BCG not working in a standard 5.56/.223 upper, but what about a Spikes tactical dedicated .22 upper? My Ciener firing pin recently broke after about 6K round and I am exploring replacement options.
I saw your reply about the BCG not working in a standard 5.56/.223 upper, but what about a Spikes tactical dedicated .22 upper? My Ciener firing pin recently broke after about 6K round and I am exploring replacement options.
Spikes dedicated system is similar to this one, in that it will not work like a ciener.
C4
Just got an e-mail from Tom @ TACSOL and he advised that the M4 profiled barrels are on their way to us!
C4
How much?
I am very interested.
thetallengineer
06-03-08, 09:03
Spikes dedicated system is similar to this one, in that it will not work like a ciener.
C4
Sorry I should have been more clear, I have a spikes tactical upper that uses the modified ciener BCG and it is what recently had a firing bin break. So I am considering upgrading the modified Ciener BCG.
How much?
I am very interested.
No idea yet. I imagine that they will be around the same price as the other barrels.
C4
Sorry I should have been more clear, I have a spikes tactical upper that uses the modified ciener BCG and it is what recently had a firing bin break. So I am considering upgrading the modified Ciener BCG.
Roger. The TACSOL BCG will not work with the ST barrel.
C4
thetallengineer
06-03-08, 09:11
Roger. The TACSOL BCG will not work with the ST barrel.
C4
That is too bad, thanks for the clarification though.
Looking forward to seeing the M4 style barrels!:D
These come with the standard FSB right?
OldNavyGuy
06-03-08, 09:34
why do all these .22LR AR-15 style rifles use a modified Ceiner conversion kit ?
why can't some manufacturer make an AR-15 style .22LR rifle from scratch without using a modified anything ??
i want one, and i believe it would out sell any modified conversion of someone elses idea.
Looking forward to seeing the M4 style barrels!:D
These come with the standard FSB right?
Yes on the FSB.
C4
why do all these .22LR AR-15 style rifles use a modified Ceiner conversion kit ?
why can't some manufacturer make an AR-15 style .22LR rifle from scratch without using a modified anything ??
i want one, and i believe it would out sell any modified conversion of someone elses idea.
I do not think I am following along. This IS a dedicated .22LR AR. Think of this just like a 9mm upper. You have have to use a new barrel and BCG in it as well.
C4
Yes on the FSB.
C4
Cool!
How's your supply of high-cap Black Dog mags?;) :D
Cool!
How's your supply of high-cap Black Dog mags?;) :D
One come with the kit and we do have some extra's in stock.
Thanks,
Grant
One come with the kit and we do have some extra's in stock.
Thanks,
Grant
Grant,
Any idea on pricing of a basic M4 upper that you build?
Grant,
Any idea on pricing of a basic M4 upper that you build?
No as it really depends on what rail (or handguard you choose) and upper receiver. I also have not seen my cost on these M4 barrels so I would just be guessing.
C4
militarymoron
06-03-08, 11:32
grant, on the lightweight barrel, what diameter is it? can a .750 clamp-on FSB be installed on it?
grant, on the lightweight barrel, what diameter is it? can a .750 clamp-on FSB be installed on it?
.914 so no go on the FSB clamp idea.
C4
EDIT: see my question was answered upthread.
Do the M4 barrels come with FBS on them?
Thx.
They do not.
C4
I have confirmed that if buying the complete M4 upper, it does come with the FSB.
Grant,
You've said a few posts up that the M4 barrels come with the standard FSB and then a few post down you said that they do not come with the standard FSB. What's the deal, FSB or not?
The guns shown at SS had FSB's. Confirmation recently from TACSOL is that the will not be coming with them.
I intend on having some installed though.
C4
The guns shown at SS had FSB's. Confirmation recently from TACSOL is that the will not be coming with them.
I intend on having some installed though.
C4
Warning: Nitpickiness below...
Since these don't run off gas and dont have a gas port drilled, would the barrel profile allow the FSB to be placed in the mid-length position? I ask because I'd like to make a .22 version of my BCM middy, plus I've got some extra mid HG's laying around. I can't seem to find a good dimensional drawing to tell if it'd work or not though.
Warning: Nitpickiness below...
Since these don't run off gas and dont have a gas port drilled, would the barrel profile allow the FSB to be placed in the mid-length position? I ask because I'd like to make a .22 version of my BCM middy, plus I've got some extra mid HG's laying around. I can't seem to find a good dimensional drawing to tell if it'd work or not though.
I do not think so as you would run into the M4 cut.
C4
Got out to my range today and shot two quick groups with the gun using a 3X Compact ACOG. Five rounds were fired and the ammo used was Winchester Dynapoints (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=15336)
I suspect with a better scope and less wind, one could most likely shoot .30 groups.
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22LW_Groups.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22LW_Groups1.jpg
I do not think so as you would run into the M4 cut.
Figured it probably would, but it was worth an ask ;) I still want one.
Awesome...
I was looking at the Model 1 Sales unit but I think I like these quite a bit better. Can I will assume they are true .221 bores?
Awesome...
I was looking at the Model 1 Sales unit but I think I like these quite a bit better. Can I will assume they are true .221 bores?
Yes, 1X15 twist I believe
The lack of a FSB is very, very disappointing especially after the SHOT Show models and all the pictures since have had them. I just checked prices on having one installed and it's about $85 plus shipping. Tactical Solutions missed the boat on this one...
Understand and have informed them that the majority of the shooters that choose the M4 profiled barrel did so because of the FSB.
I hope to be able to have FSB installed for around $50-$60.
The reason why TACSOL decided to not go with a pinned FSB is because it drove the cost and is a PITA to do properly.
C4
DP, I think you're jumping the gun here.
Grant has said that the BARRELS he's getting will/do not have the FSB. He also said that the "BCG and barrel will cost $430." for the ones in the first post, and that "I imagine that they will be around the same price as the other barrels" when referring to the M4 style. Complete uppers direct from Tacsol are $575.
Also, regardless of what they showed at SHOT, the Tacsol website (http://www.tacticalsol.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=&idproduct=877) shows the M4 cut barrels with the complete uppers coming with some kind of quad rail "gas block" abomination.
http://www.tacticalsol.com/store/pc/catalog/Large%20M4%203.jpg
Either way, this is just one option on the market. Spike's Tactical has a new .22 upper out/coming out and I'm sure he will install an FSB if asked. Either way, I don't know why an FSB would cost $85 to install on one of these, unless you're trying to get it drilled and pinned. It's not a gas block, and it's not like a .22 is going to be a "hard use weapon", so if I wanted an FSB I'd just attach it with some set-screws. In fact, if you have an FSB that came off another gun or can find someone else does to give you one you could make it into a set-screw version very easily.
Personally, I'm glad to see they don't come with one, as it's just something I'd have to bang/grind/bash off. I'll be installing a long rail on mine and will just bolt a front sight to that.
Grant, when you get the M4 versions in I'd love to hear your take on those vs. the ones you have now. I'm ready with my credit card as soon as I can figure out which one to order.:D
One thing I'm very interested in is weight of the two barrels.
The lack of a FSB is very, very disappointing especially after the SHOT Show models and all the pictures since have had them. I just checked prices on having one installed and it's about $85 plus shipping. Tactical Solutions missed the boat on this one...
That's really a bummer for me..,:(
Just adding a standard flat top upper will already bring this upper to around $550. Also with estimated costs mentioned for installing a FSB it's almost just as cheap and easier to put a LMT fixed front sight on it. As long as the LMT front sight will work properly with it.:confused:
Eitherway, that sucks because adding the fixed front sight I want is almost the cost of two BDM mags.
Grant,
A bit off topic but, have you had a chance to try out the newest version of the Spike .22 upper?
Hopefully you can still convince TacSol to make some with the standard FSB...
Grant, when you get the M4 versions in I'd love to hear your take on those vs. the ones you have now. I'm ready with my credit card as soon as I can figure out which one to order.:D
One thing I'm very interested in is weight of the two barrels.
Roger. Will provide weight differences.
C4
That's really a bummer for me..,:(
Just adding a standard flat top upper will already bring this upper to around $550. Also with estimated costs mentioned for installing a FSB it's almost just as cheap and easier to put a LMT fixed front sight on it. As long as the LMT front sight will work properly with it.:confused:
Eitherway, that sucks because adding the fixed front sight I want is almost the cost of two BDM mags.
Grant,
A bit off topic but, have you had a chance to try out the newest version of the Spike .22 upper?
Hopefully you can still convince TacSol to make some with the standard FSB...
I have not had a chance to try Spikes new one. I don't think they have a barrel as nice as TACSOL's light weight version so I have little interest in them.
To be honest, I think I can have FSB's installed on TACSOL's barrel cheaper than they can. So you really won't get much cheaper than if we do it.
C4
I spoke with them Friday and was told they ARE selling the uppers with FSB, not as their website shows. I was told that the image is incorrect and they will be editing.
I will be calling again to confirm.
I spoke with them Friday and was told they ARE selling the uppers with FSB, not as their website shows. I was told that the image is incorrect and they will be editing.
I will be calling again to confirm.
Hmm, talked to Tom H. at TACSOL on Friday and he said that they weren't. We even had a discusion about set screwed FSB's.
I got an e-mail to him about this or will just wait and see what is installed on the barrels I ordered. ;)
C4
grant, any chance for aluminum shorty barrels? 10.5 or even shorter??
grant, any chance for aluminum shorty barrels? 10.5 or even shorter??
I should be getting a 5" alum. barrel next week to T&E. If all goes well, we will offer them in our custom builds. ;)
C4
Two more cents on this:
I like the ability to buy parts one at a time - bbl, BCG, upper.
Is a FSB that big a deal? I think most guys would use these with an optic or free float rail and rail mounted BUIS.
10" bbls would be the heat.
Hmm, talked to Tom H. at TACSOL on Friday and he said that they weren't. We even had a discusion about set screwed FSB's.
I got an e-mail to him about this or will just wait and see what is installed on the barrels I ordered. ;)
C4
Grant,
I'm sure you are getting the correct update, but they emailed me images & spec sheet on the 3 uppers they are selling....maybe things changed.
I'll send via PM.
Two more cents on this:
I like the ability to buy parts one at a time - bbl, BCG, upper.
Is a FSB that big a deal? I think most guys would use these with an optic or free float rail and rail mounted BUIS.
10" bbls would be the heat.
I personally don't want or need a FSB (dead weight) as I am always running optics.
C4
Grant,
I'm sure you are getting the correct update, but they emailed me images & spec sheet on the 3 uppers they are selling....maybe things changed.
I'll send via PM.
Just got my M4 profiled barrels in! They do NOT have a FSB.
C4
Just got my M4 profiled barrels in! They do NOT have a FSB.
Well, there’s the definitive answer to that question then! For everyone who wants to put on a float tube of some sort, that’s great.
Personally, I would just like a basic M4-style upper to do some close drills with cheaply while mimicking my “real” carbine. I don’t really want the extra expense of a railed fore end, nor do I need it to hang stuff from.
Grant, I’m in for one of these for sure if the options and pricing come out decent. I just bought my wife a new camera so I need to strike while the iron is hot ;) Please let me know what you figure out.
Yes, please keep us posted on the FSB issue.
What I want is a basic M4 style flat top upper with a FSB and regular plastic two piece handguards. I understand it comes with one BDM mag so I will also want three addtional BDM mags for a total of four.
I may add a two piece railed handguard later but I don't want the addtional cost of one in my initial purchase.
I'm simply using a cheap YHM 12" handguard on mine. I think it was under $100. I'll probably even put a Tacpoint or some other POS optic on it.
While I understand why some folks want to exactly match their other gear, it's far from a dealbreaker for me. Having a super lightweight and slow to heat up .22 that I can stick a can on and entertain women and kids with for days is a side benefit.
For those that are looking for that FSB, I believe Spike's new uppers will (or do) have them. Tacsol won't be the solution for everyone, and neither will Spike's, but it's nice that there are so many choices in the market.
Yes, please keep us posted on the FSB issue.
What I want is a basic M4 style flat top upper with a FSB and regular plastic two piece handguards. I understand it comes with one BDM mag so I will also want three addtional BDM mags for a total of four.
I may add a two piece railed handguard later but I don't want the addtional cost of one in my initial purchase.
Got confirmation that I will be able to add FSB's for an additional $60.
C4
Grant,
Thanks for the heads up on the FSB pricing.
I'm wondering, do you think the LMT fixed front sight will work properly with the goofy railed FSB that it comes with?
If so do you think the fixed LMT front sight would be a less expensive and less complicated fix for this issue?
BTW, the LMT sight does use a standard USGI sight post, right?
Grant,
Thanks for the heads up on the FSB pricing.
I'm wondering, do you think the LMT fixed front sight will work properly with the goofy railed FSB that it comes with?
If so do you think the fixed LMT front sight would be a less expensive and less complicated fix for this issue?
BTW, the LMT sight does use a standard USGI sight post, right?
I have not personally seen the GB (which is a clamp on by the way) so I cannot tell you if it will be high enough (sorry).
The LMT front sight post is standard USGI.
C4
I agree it is nice to have options....but TACSOL can build as you want, apparently there are distributors not wanting a FSB so they are adapting. Mine was preordered w/ FSB and confirmed it is shipping as ordered.
They have modified the M4 based on requests, so going forward the 4 rail gas block is the answer to allow you to adapt the sight of your choice, however you must inquire in order to get what you want.
Bottom line-Distributors are stocking different set ups.
I personally don't want or need a FSB (dead weight) as I am always running optics.
C4
Agreed. For me it would just be an added cost for something I don't want. That is what I don't like about the Model 1 Sales unit.
A thick bbl and good optics, vermin beware...
Ok, here are some pics of the stripped TACSOL M4 barrel.
The weight difference between the two barrels is about 13 ounces (with the M4 being heavier).
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22M4_Barrel.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22M4_Barrel1.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22M4_Barrel2.jpg
Those barrels look very nice.;)
BTW, I was looking at Armalite's site and they have clamp-on A2 front sights for $43.50. I wonder if these would work with the TacSol barrels?
Personally, for a .22 upper I don't care if they are pinned on or not. If these work I would be fine with the clamp on and they will definitely be easier to install and adjust properly...
http://www.armalite.com/images/large%20images/eu0240mpkitlarge.jpg
Here's the link to the product page.
http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=EU0240MPKIT&Category=5e96660f-cc85-4db9-ab9d-8a3c238a7007
Those barrels look very nice.;)
BTW, I was looking at Armalite's site and they have clamp-on A2 front sights for $43.50. I wonder if these would work with the TacSol barrels?
Personally, for a .22 upper I don't care if they are pinned on or not. If these work I would be fine with the clamp on and they will definitely be easier to install and adjust properly...
http://www.armalite.com/images/large%20images/eu0240mpkitlarge.jpg
Here's the link to the product page.
http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=EU0240MPKIT&Category=5e96660f-cc85-4db9-ab9d-8a3c238a7007
As long as they are .750, they will work.
C4
WOW! 13 oz? Christ that's nearly a full pound lighter. Guess that settles it for me!
So how much for a complete M4 type upper?
So how much for a complete M4 type upper?
With a pinned FSB?
C4
With a pinned FSB?
C4
Sure. Ready to put standard handguards on, and slap on a lower and go shoot. I think that's what a few of us were most interested in.
I'm not opposed to figuring out the FSB issue on my own either, but it doesn't look to be a huge savings by the time I order parts from somewhere else, pay extra shipping, etc. Although those clamp-on A2 bases arent too bad...
Thanks Grant :D
Good point LOK. It sounds like that's what a lot of people want. A complete upper with barrel, bolt, FSB, handguard cap, delta ring, etc. with the only thing lacking being the plastic handguards.
Sure. Ready to put standard handguards on, and slap on a lower and go shoot. I think that's what a few of us were most interested in.
I'm not opposed to figuring out the FSB issue on my own either, but it doesn't look to be a huge savings by the time I order parts from somewhere else, pay extra shipping, etc. Although those clamp-on A2 bases arent too bad...
Thanks Grant :D
I think with a pinned FSB, M4 HG's, T-Marked USGI upper and charging handle the price will be around $608.
C4
Good point LOK. It sounds like that's what a lot of people want. A complete upper with barrel, bolt, FSB, handguard cap, delta ring, etc. with the only thing lacking being the plastic handguards.
Well, I'm not Grant and I'm not the one building or stocking parts for these, but I think it makes sense that the M4 profile crowd is going to trying to duplicate a regular upper to practice on the cheap and the lightweight barrel crowd is going to be building a-la-carte custom stuff.
I think with a pinned FSB, M4 HG's, T-Marked USGI upper and charging handle the price will be around $608.
C4
That's actually pretty good. 2000 rounds of .22 LR and it's paid for itself...
Now when do you start accepting orders? ;)
Well, I'm not Grant and I'm not the one building or stocking parts for these, but I think it makes sense that the M4 profile crowd is going to trying to duplicate a regular upper to practice on the cheap and the lightweight barrel crowd is going to be building a-la-carte custom stuff.
Yeah, but the whole "long rail over a low profile gas block" thing is pretty popular these days. Look at the Noveske N4 offerings and the like. With a .22 there is no "gas block" so for guys with that kind of setup, like me, that are looking to potentially replicate their "real" gun it's nice not to have to pay for the part you don't need.
Yeah, but the whole "long rail over a low profile gas block" thing is pretty popular these days. Look at the Noveske N4 offerings and the like. With a .22 there is no "gas block" so for guys with that kind of setup, like me, that are looking to potentially replicate their "real" gun it's nice not to have to pay for the part you don't need.
Good point. I guess I was assuming that if you wanted the long rail look (which I prefer too just can't justify the cost for a secondary .22 upper whose goal is to shoot cheaply) there was no reason to get the M4 barrel over the lightweight barrel, cost being similar. Although I guess some might want the added weight for an upper body workout ;)
Sounds like Grant's got us all covered, now.
That's my thinking too, and why I'll probably go with the lightweight barrel myself.
Ideally, if I was looking at a training gun only, I'd still opt for the M4 barrel without GB and install the exact same rail I have on my "real" gun, the exact same optic, etc. Like you said though, then you wind up with a $2k .22 which would take quite a bit longer to realize your savings.
Grant,
Good talking to you this afternoon!
I just recently found out about the BDM's bolt hold open follower.
Have you tried this follower with the Tac Sol upper?
When inserting a fresh mag will you be able to charge the weapon normally by hitting the bolt catch?
Grant,
Good talking to you this afternoon!
I just recently found out about the BDM's bolt hold open follower.
Have you tried this follower with the Tac Sol upper?
When inserting a fresh mag will you be able to charge the weapon normally by hitting the bolt catch?
The new bolt hold open BDM mags will work with the TACSOL system.
It is my understanding that the bolt hold open mags will NOT drop free as the bolt is keeping them locked in. So you will have to pull the mag out of the magwell.
Good to talk to you as well.
C4
Here are some pics of an M4 Custom Build.
C4
SPECS:
TACSOL M4 Barrel
TACSOL BCG
USGI A3 Upper
DD 9.0 Omega
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22M4_Build.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22M4_Build1.jpg
The new bolt hold open BDM mags will work with the TACSOL system.
It is my understanding that the bolt hold open mags will NOT drop free as the bolt is keeping them locked in. So you will have to pull the mag out of the magwell.
Good to talk to you as well.
C4
probably better not to let the BDM mags drop free...i would assume broken feedlips?
probably better not to let the BDM mags drop free...i would assume broken feedlips?
Most likely true. A Tac Reload is a better option.
C4
Grant, how much for the above pic; without handguards (I have a spare Troy rail).
Grant, how much for the above pic; without handguards (I have a spare Troy rail).
$529 with charging handle, delta ring assembly, receiver, barrel and BCG.
C4
$529 with charging handle, delta ring assembly, receiver, barrel and BCG.
C4
I think with a pinned FSB, M4 HG's, T-Marked USGI upper and charging handle the price will be around $608.
C4
Just because I want to be totally clear, it's $529 for the barrel, upper, BCG, CH, and delta ring, and $608 for all of the above plus installed FSB and handguards?
Just because I want to be totally clear, it's $548 for the barrel, upper, BCG, CH, and delta ring, or for all of the above plus installed FSB and handguards?
Grant, you may want to eventually post some pictures of EXACTLY what one gets for a stated price.
I gotta call you one day this week so we can work out what I want.
I did fat finger the above price for the model WITHOUT the FSB and have adjusted it.
My math on the FSB model with M4 HG's, CH, USGI Receiver, FSB (pinned), barrel and BCG is actually going to run $608 I think. In my adding up of components I left off HG's and charging handle. I also did not put any thought into the cost of shipping of barrels for FSB installation (sorry).
C4
Edited my post above as well.
waterhouse
06-12-08, 09:35
The Spike's page states that the barrel goes into the receiver about 1.5". Is this also the case with the TacSol barrels i.e. a 16" barrel appears to look like a 14.5" barrel?
The Spike's page states that the barrel goes into the receiver about 1.5". Is this also the case with the TacSol barrels i.e. a 16" barrel appears to look like a 14.5" barrel?
Correct.
C4
OldNavyGuy
06-12-08, 09:41
I do not think I am following along. This IS a dedicated .22LR AR. Think of this just like a 9mm upper. You have have to use a new barrel and BCG in it as well.
C4
sorry for the confusion, what i am saying, is why can't a .22LR be made with out a modified Ceiner.., i have two of the Jaeger .22LRs, they are made from ground up as a .22LR, are you familiar with the Jaeger .22LRs ? which BTW are long gone due to B.J. Klynton !
sorry for the confusion, what i am saying, is why can't a .22LR be made with out a modified Ceiner.., i have two of the Jaeger .22LRs, they are made from ground up as a .22LR, are you familiar with the Jaeger .22LRs ? which BTW are long gone due to B.J. Klynton !
I am still not following you. There ARE dedicated ones by Spikes Tactical and TACSOL that are designed from the ground up to be dedicated .22's.
Also, the older Spikes Tactical dedicated .22 AR's DID modify the Ciener kits to work with a .22 AR barrel. Reliability was hit and miss on them and we always had to do a lot of work to get them to run well. To me personally, anything utilizing the Ciener BCG is not the best way to go.
C4
OldNavyGuy
06-12-08, 10:07
I am still not following you. There ARE dedicated ones by Spikes Tactical and TACSOL that are designed from the ground up to be dedicated .22's.
Also, the older Spikes Tactical dedicated .22 AR's DID modify the Ciener kits to work with a .22 AR barrel. Reliability was hit and miss on them and we always had to do a lot of work to get them to run well. To me personally, anything utilizing the Ciener BCG is not the best way to go.
C4
To me personally, anything utilizing the Ciener BCG is not the best way to go.
i totally agree, that is why i want an upper that does not incorporate the Ceiner BCG.., please excuse me, if you posted a link to these uppers, i missed it, can you direct me to the link ?
I am still not following you. i think we are beginning to merge our thoughts, i think i am the one who needs to become more familiar with the product that is being discussed.
thank you ! you have been great in answering all our questions, BTW, where in Ohio are you ? Canton area is my old stomping grounds.
i totally agree, that is why i want an upper that does not incorporate the Ceiner BCG.., please excuse me, if you posted a link to these uppers, i missed it, can you direct me to the link ?
i think we are beginning to merge our thoughts, i think i am the one who needs to become more familiar with the product that is being discussed.
thank you ! you have been great in answering all our questions, BTW, where in Ohio are you ? Canton area is my old stomping grounds.
Did you read/look at page one of this thread?
We are just south of Canton in a little town called Mineral City right next to Atwood Lake.
C4
Just put this together for a customer. Here some pics of what might be the lightest setup on the market. The VTAC rail might be the best choice with this barrel.
C4
Weight with charging handle and BCG 3LBS.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22LW_VTAC.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22LW_VTAC1.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22LW_VTAC2.jpg
Very nice. I'd be interested to see what the whole weight of the gun is when that one's assembled on a lower.
Grant, did you get my PM?
Very nice. I'd be interested to see what the whole weight of the gun is when that one's assembled on a lower.
Grant, did you get my PM?
The weight of the gun really depends on what lower components one would choose.
I did get your PM, but have not had a second to answer it (sorry).
C4
Has anybody tried to mate the TacSol lightwieght upper with a Bushmaster carbon 15 lower. I have heard mixed opinion on the carbon lowers.
OldNavyGuy
06-19-08, 09:43
We are just south of Canton in a little town called Mineral City right next to Atwood Lake.
C4
i'll go back to p-1 and research the item being discussed, thanks !
aaah ! been thru there many times on our way to Atwood Lake, my cousin had a trailer site there for many years but sold it 5 years ago, along with his "pontoon" boat.
OldNavyGuy
06-19-08, 09:55
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22M4_Build1.jpg
here is another product i am not familiar with, who is the manufacturer ? who on this planet uses straight slot screws ?? Torx or Allen is the industry standard i thought..., :confused:
here is another product i am not familiar with, who is the manufacturer ? who on this planet uses straight slot screws ?? Torx or Allen is the industry standard i thought..., :confused:
That appears to be a Daniel Defense Omega rail. (I believe you are referring to the rail, with the screw comments that you made.) It has only been on the market for a year or so. Your learning curve appears to be pegged at 90 degrees. :D Just givin' ya a hard time.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22M4_Build1.jpg
here is another product i am not familiar with, who is the manufacturer ? who on this planet uses straight slot screws ?? Torx or Allen is the industry standard i thought..., :confused:
That is the DD Omega. One of the best, two piece FF rail systems on the market.
http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/browse&category=railsystems_omegarail
C4
OldNavyGuy
06-20-08, 00:06
That is the DD Omega. One of the best, two piece FF rail systems on the market.
http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/browse&category=railsystems_omegarail
C4
OK, it might be the best and all that.., BUT what purpose do straight slot shiny screws serve ? i am just :confused: after reading this:
The Omega Rail™ is a free float rail system that allows the individual operator to easily install it with the provided Allen Key and requires ZERO modification to the weapon!
from this i gather the Delta Ring is NOT removed ? i have five different rails on five different rifles and had to remove the D.R. on all of them, two by hacksawing it off, and let me tell you those rings are tuff stuff.
Wow! Another item on the "want to have" list. . .
OK, it might be the best and all that.., BUT what purpose do straight slot shiny screws serve ? i am just :confused: after reading this:
The rail is a two piece and is what holds it together.
from this i gather the Delta Ring is NOT removed ? i have five different rails on five different rifles and had to remove the D.R. on all of them, two by hacksawing it off, and let me tell you those rings are tuff stuff.
Correct. Delta Ring stays put.
C4
Omega Installation (http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65)
If I had to guess I'd say that slotted screws are used because almost anything can be used as flat-head screwdriver, but who carries around Torx and Allen wrenches?
waterhouse
06-20-08, 14:02
Hi Grant, what would an upper like the one in post 97 (the VTAC one) cost?
Hi Grant, what would an upper like the one in post 97 (the VTAC one) cost?
With upper receiver and charging handle, that build is $679.
C4
16" Barrel (threaded)
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22LWBarrel.jpg
BCG
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22BCG.jpg
When will these two items be available on the G&R site? Thanks.
OK, it might be the best and all that.., BUT what purpose do straight slot shiny screws serve ? i am just :confused: after reading this:
from this i gather the Delta Ring is NOT removed ? i have five different rails on five different rifles and had to remove the D.R. on all of them, two by hacksawing it off, and let me tell you those rings are tuff stuff.
I have a 7.0 Omega and a 9.0 Omega and the screws are not shiny on either, I think it's the camera flash giving that look. It is certainly more field expedient to use a slotted screw. A coin, case rim, knife, or multi-tool can be used if a proper screw driver can't be located. And there are so many different size torx or allen screws, but you can make about any flat-head work. Torx and allen screws may be better for applying torque to a fastener but this isn't a screw that needs to be torqued.
Also with any type ladder or full rail cover the screws are essentially covered and the issue moot.
And you are correct, the Delta Ring does not need to be removed. Genius huh? Installation is a breeze, and quick. Uninterrupted top rail. And they are pretty inexpensive and even come with three ladder covers! Nice huh?
Gaze on the beauty that is the Daniel Defense Omega rail!
-RD62
P.S. Just giving you a hard time. :D
When will these two items be available on the G&R site? Thanks.
Basically never as we are not allowed to sell just the barrel and bolts. You have to buy a complete upper (which we can build for you).
C4
I have a Spike's .22 M4 upper on the way. Should be less than 3 weeks out now (talked to them again a few days ago.)
It will be nothing but a flattop upper, no handguards, M4 profile, FSB pinned in place, loose FH (so I can mount my G5 mount) and BCG.
I won't mention the price unless Grant says it's ok.
I have a Spike's .22 M4 upper on the way. Should be less than 3 weeks out now (talked to them again a few days ago.)
It will be nothing but a flattop upper, no handguards, M4 profile, FSB pinned in place, loose FH (so I can mount my G5 mount) and BCG.
I won't mention the price unless Grant says it's ok.
Fine with me. I am also curious how they run as their other ones took a lot of work.
C4
Suicide...I'd be interested too, Grant's doing basically the same thing for me and it might make a good comparison point for others. Even if it is just sample size, one each.
On a side note...Every time I see a "C4IGrant" as the latest post in this thread, I get excited and hope he's posted pics of a certain M4-style build he's just completed and getting ready to ship out...
"Yer killin' me, Smalls!" ;)
It's $430 as I mentioned above. Quite a bit cheaper than the fully built ones they advertise as my friend found out when perusing their site.
We will see how it runs...
It's $430 as I mentioned above. Quite a bit cheaper than the fully built ones they advertise as my friend found out when perusing their site.
We will see how it runs...
Post some pics of their bolt and barrel. Would like to see how their BCG compares to that of TACSOL.
Also, make sure to try different ammo. In the past, their system ONLY liked one type of ammo.
C4
Just put this together for a customer. Here some pics of what might be the lightest setup on the market. The VTAC rail might be the best choice with this barrel.
C4
Weight with charging handle and BCG 3LBS.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TACSOL/22LW_VTAC.jpg
This is now on my short list of must have items.
Very nice and only 3 lb!
Dave
grant, let us know when SBR length bbls become available.
thanks
a 7 would be real nice, to run with a can.
Probably a stupid question, but do these have correct 0.400" thread depth for .22 suppressors?
I'm on standby for SBR lengths too..;)
Probably a stupid question, but do these have correct 0.400" thread depth for .22 suppressors?
Yes.
C4
I'm on standby for SBR lengths too..;)
Got one for T&E right now. ;)
C4
OldNavyGuy
06-24-08, 08:39
Omega Installation (http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65)
If I had to guess I'd say that slotted screws are used because almost anything can be used as flat-head screwdriver, but who carries around Torx and Allen wrenches?
"but who carries around Torx and Allen wrenches?"
i do, they are in a little rubber holder that came with one of my Leatherman tools ;) :D
OldNavyGuy
06-24-08, 08:59
And they are pretty inexpensive and even come with three ladder covers! Nice huh?
Gaze on the beauty that is the Daniel Defense Omega rail!
-RD62
P.S. Just giving you a hard time.
there is no way you can give me a hard time.., do not forget, my name, OldNavyGuy should give you a clue as to my hardness, in my 25 years i have been hassled by some of the best hasslers on this planet, after some hasseling at the China Fleet Club in Hong Kong by some 20+ Brit Sailors, my 4 buddies and i fought our way out, and left a few bloody noses and some black eyes, our worst injuries were bloody knuckles, don't let anyone tell you to wear a ring in a fight, i was wearing my Navy ring and had to have 5 stitches in my right hand knuckle, i have no idea what the guys jaw looked like but my knuckle was bleeding so bad i took off my Tee shirt and wrapped my hand with it and when i got back to the Carrier it was soaked in blood.
oooooh BTW, how inexpensive are those rails ? :D
Got one for T&E right now. ;)
C4
Awesome, what length?
Awesome, what length?
5"
C4
5"
C4
And you only asked for 1 barrel...:(
And you only asked for 1 barrel...:(
LOL, no that is all they would send me. ;)
C4
Grant,
So, what's the ETA on the M4 style barrels with the pinned FSB?:D
Grant,
So, what's the ETA on the M4 style barrels with the pinned FSB?:D
On there way back to me now. ;)
C4
On there way back to me now. ;)
C4
I better hurry and go get my wife a nice gift then...:D
BTW, what brands of .22 ammo work best with this upper?
I better hurry and go get my wife a nice gift then...:D
BTW, what brands of .22 ammo work best with this upper?
She deserves the very best. ;)
I have run Dynapoints and CCI Mini-mags through the weapon without any issues. I hear that Federal 550 bulk pack (not the Xpert bulk pack) also does well.
C4
She deserves the very best. ;)
I have run Dynapoints and CCI Mini-mags through the weapon without any issues. I hear that Federal 550 bulk pack (not the Xpert bulk pack) also does well.
C4
That's good, I've got quite a bit of the Federal stuff stashed away. I'll give a firsthand report on how it handles that.
oooooh BTW, how inexpensive are those rails ? :D
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=7.0OR-DD
-RD62
In celebration of the win on Heller, I ordered the lightest possible Tac Sol .22lr upper build from G&R Tactical C4IGrant today. When I get it and assembled with a light lower and muzzle suppressor it should be a fun plinking gun.:cool:
Dave
OldNavyGuy
06-28-08, 10:33
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=7.0OR-DD
-RD62
"" Price: $246.00""
good lord !! i can get a GG&G that i believe to be better than that !! ;)
"" Price: $246.00""
good lord !! i can get a GG&G that i believe to be better than that !! ;)
The GG&G is actually much worse.
C4
relictrader
06-28-08, 17:02
Have been looking and asking for a 22 Cal Barrel replacement for S&W A4 that needs premium 22 inch light contour barrel 1x8 twist for 77 gr. MK's,but to this day no luck.
Can some one direct me on this ??
Gary
Nice looking barrel and bolt!
LonghunterCO
06-29-08, 19:39
What is the twist rate on this barrel? This looks like a winner for my wife's pink Cav Arms lower (she mostly shoots the .22 kit anyway).
What is the twist rate on this barrel? This looks like a winner for my wife's pink Cav Arms lower (she mostly shoots the .22 kit anyway).
1/16
C4
On there way back to me now. ;)
C4
So, are the barrels with the pinned FSB's there yet?:D
So, are the barrels with the pinned FSB's there yet?:D
Yeah...what he said! Any updates?
Got the upper from Grant a couple of days ago. It weighed in at 2lb 15.2 oz. Complete on a Cav Arms lower-- 4lb 6.4oz. Need to figure a way to raise the Fast Fire sight a bit to make it a little easier to use.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b25/Racer351/Lighter22LRAR.jpg
Dan Goodwin
07-13-08, 08:51
When will the full auto versions be available?
Took the TacSol upper and my Cav Arms lower pictured above on the scale to the range yesterday. I used a Bowers Paradigm suppressor. The Aquila 38gr subsonic ran fine in my gun as did the Winchester Dynapoint and both grouped well. The FastFire sight has a 4moa dot so it is a plinker rather than a precision gun, but it still groups very well. I may have to put a scope on it just to see how well it will actually shoot. I am very happy with this 4lb 6.4 oz gun.
Shameless bump...
Can anyone offer their experience(s) with the TacSol setup now that they've been floating around for a while? How are they holding up? Any feed-related hiccups?
Also - have you had a chance to T&E those SBR-length barrels yet Grant?
Shameless bump...
Can anyone offer their experience(s) with the TacSol setup now that they've been floating around for a while? How are they holding up? Any feed-related hiccups?
Also - have you had a chance to T&E those SBR-length barrels yet Grant?
I have one of their SBR's right now. It is running well. Hope to have more of them in a couple weeks.
C4
Shameless bump...
Can anyone offer their experience(s) with the TacSol setup now that they've been floating around for a while? How are they holding up? Any feed-related hiccups?
I received mine yesterday and intend to wring it out good this weekend. I'll post up with results :)
I have one of their SBR's right now. It is running well. Hope to have more of them in a couple weeks.
C4
Can you tell us how long the sbr barrels are and how much they will cost?
Thanks.
Can you tell us how long the sbr barrels are and how much they will cost?
Thanks.
The barrels will be 4.5-5" and no idea how much they will cost just yet. I would make the assumption of at least $400 for the barrel, bolt and one mag.
C4
I have been running a Tac-Sol M4 .22LR Upper for over a month now. I really like it. Like all .22LRs, you need to pay attention to cleaning them more frequently even when running copper plated ammo. While it feeds lead or nyclad .22LR fine, IMHO copper plated seems to run cleaner longer.
I have been pushing the upper very hard and when I do a series of NSRs I occassionally get a failure to extract causing a Type III malfunction. Clearance procedure is somewhat similiar with exception of being able to lock the bolt to the rear. Not an issue simply remove the mag, rack the bolt 3Xs, finger bang it, load and continue shooting.
This is a winner and in less than 1500 rnds of .22LR vice 5.56mm you'll have paid for the Tac-Sol upper with Black Dog 27 rnd mags.
S/F
thetallengineer
08-08-08, 11:56
Thanks for the update FJB. I've enjoyed my spike's tactical upper and have only had one malfunction out of ~6500 rounds of federal bulk pack ammo until my firing pin broke. I've been slow to machine a new one for the ciener BCG and miss being able to shoot cheaply every weekend. The TACSOL upper looks pretty promising and I am strongly considering purchasing another upper to mitigate down time in addition to having another rifle that friends and family can shoot cheaply.
FJB,
I've also gotten a few FTE's which caused Type III malfunctions with my TacSol M4 upper. Mine only has about 900 rounds through it so it may need a few more to break in.
Originally I was thinking it might be caused by a dirty chamber after many rounds but then I started wondering if it needed more extractor tension.
Maybe TacSol needs to put in a stronger extractor spring?
yojimbo,
I am thinking the same thing. Also wondering if the chamber could be looser so that as it heats up the brass casing are less like to get stuck.
I intend to talk to Tom Hines about it to see what he thinks. He is a really good guy and am sure will take the input well. Tom did tell me that his uppers don't like Remington .22LR from some reason.
S/F
I'm glad FJB bumped this thread, because I looked all over for it the other day and couldn't find it...I wanted to link to my range report thread with my Tac-Sol upper from Grant. It doesn't have any grond-breaking thoughts or info, but I did include some pics for folks who might be looking for more information.
LINK (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=17682)
Mr. Blish,
Please keep us posted on what you and Tom find.
Maybe along with the stronger extrator spring Ned needs to make a .22 chamber reamer...;)
Yojimbo, what kind of ammo are you running?
Rob,
I used Remington Hi-Speed Thunderbolts and Winchester Dynapoints. The function seemed to be about the same with either one. After about 500 rounds my upper seemed to settle down and I experienced much fewer issues. I'll be keeping any eye on it to see if the function improves as the I get more rounds through it.
When I talked to TacSol they said anything Remington is what they would recommend for use with this upper. I asked for the specific type of Remington ammo they recommend but the person on the phone just reapeated that they have had the best luck with anything Remington. My guess is the person really didn't know ...
The next time I go shoot it I will pick up a box of Hi-Vel Remington Golden Bullets and see how that works. I may also get a box of Federal 550 to test how that works as well.
Also, while I know it's not a definitive test, I checked the chamber and unfired ammo seem to slide in and out with no issues. At least it seems like the chamber is okay. I'm still wondering if a stronger extractor spring would help.
Reason I ask is that I just got an Advantage Arms .22 slide for a G19 and they specifically say "do not use Federal ammunition or Remington 'Thunderbolts'".
They also "strongly recommend Remington 'Golden Bullets' as an inexpensive round for everyday practice shooting". They go on to recommend:
1. CCI Mini Mags
2. Remington "Golden Bullets"
3. Most any other 40 grain "High Velocity" ammo.
I bought a case of the Mini Mags based on this recommendation and would like to keep only one kind of .22 on hand. So, if the Mini Mags work in the Tacsol uppers that would be nice as well.
M1A2_Tanker
11-01-08, 01:16
well since everyone and their brother is sold out of the S&W 5.45's (the ones around $570) I guess I might have to get one of these this month instead. Any updates? any issue's? Thanks!
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