View Full Version : hk416 vs m&p 15-22. Which one?
Mike Marley
05-20-14, 14:52
I'll keep it succinct.
You are in the market for a .22 AR style rifle.
Gun store has a hk416 and m&p 15-22. Both same price.
Which one do you buy and why?
I buy the M&P because I've tried it and it works well. No idea on the other one.
Stay away from the umarex/walther branded HK and Colt clones.
The S&W is the best 22 trainer out there.
Another vote for the M&P 15-22.
With my thread on Gemtech Alpine, I have had ZERO malfunctions!
Very minimal malfunctions without the can.
While I've seen multiple Colt/HK clones choke, I have not had an issue yet with my 15-22.
scoutfsu99
05-20-14, 16:50
15-22 hands down. Very reliable and mags aren't too expensive.
I have the HK and am very happy with it, with the exception of magazine pricing/availability. Mine didn't like Federal bulk ammo at first, but after 500 rounds or so it runs through it very well along with everthing else I send through it. I went the SBR route with mine (started with pistol variant).
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/figgifumi/014E.jpg
M&P 15-22
It works. Mags are available and inexpensive.
I have the HK and am very happy with it, with the exception of magazine pricing/availability. Mine didn't like Federal bulk ammo at first, but after 500 rounds or so it runs through it very well along with everthing else I send through it. I went the SBR route with mine (started with pistol variant).
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n247/figgifumi/014E.jpg
Tell me how and why you did the "SBR route" GH
Tell me how and why you did the "SBR route" GH
I'd say why not personally. That is pretty slick.
Thanks Vip3r, I'm very happy with how it turned out.
As for how; it was actually very easy. I purchased the pistol version and then found a company that sold the proprietary receiver extension as a kit with the HK stock from the rifle version. Once my tax stamp came in I installed the receiver extension and viola.
As for why; I got what I considered a great deal on the pistol ($350 out the door), so even with the $200 tax stamp I came out even with what the M&P-22 was selling for at my LGS. I sold the HK stock from the kit on eBay for a profit which covered the cost of the RE as well as the Magpul CTR. So from my POV it worked out pretty well and am very happy with the end result, it's somewhat unique and is an absolute blast to shoot.
Like I said, the only downfall in my eyes is the price of magazines and waiting for the tax stamp to come in. I managed to pick up 5 magazines at a fairly decent price through Botach and rebuild springs and followers through HK Parts. Hope that helps to explain why I went this route as opposed to the M&P. Both are great rifles, just different strokes for differnt folks.
Id honestly get a dedicated .22 upper over any other choice.
Failure2Stop
05-20-14, 21:34
Id honestly get a dedicated .22 upper over any other choice.
I tried this path, and as much as I want/wanted it to work, it was too cost and time intensive to be a recommended course of action, based on my experience.
I think that a 15-22 and a little work gives better result than anything else.
I'm not saying that you are disingenuous, just that my experience indicates otherwise.
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scoutfsu99
05-20-14, 21:39
Id honestly get a dedicated .22 upper over any other choice.
The money you're going to put into a dedicated upper is more than any other option is going to cost. The S&W is a fantastic option that has an excellent reputation. I've seen them as low as $350 but generally averaging in the low $400's.
Fuzzy-Reticle
05-20-14, 21:47
MP 15-22 is a great rifle. Runs great with any ammo you can get your hands on. That is important these days. I tried the dedicated upper route (Tac Sol) and it was a bit fussy on ammo. I migrated from that to the SIG mainly because the magazines from the Tac Sol upper work in it (Black Dog and CMMG). It ran great but it had a funky C-clip issue with the recoil spring and guide rod. That might be fixed on current SIGs but I sold it and got the M&P15-22. Never looked back. I have a lot of rounds through it. At least 5k and probably more and it runs like a champ. Only have the occasional FTF that happens with .22 sometimes. Magazines are cheap and plentiful for it. I think it is the the best .22 trainer on the market today.
My dad has a Colt/Umarex 22LR. It doesn't have a ton of rounds through it, but it's never had any problems. He rarely uses it and it's just a plinker, so I doubt it will have any problems.
Out of those two, I would go MP15-22 hands down.
geaux2sleep
05-20-14, 22:21
M&P 15-22. Hands down. Can get for $350-360.
I tried this path, and as much as I want/wanted it to work, it was too cost and time intensive to be a recommended course of action, based on my experience.
I think that a 15-22 and a little work gives better result than anything else.
I'm not saying that you are disingenuous, just that my experience indicates otherwise.
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I guess the reasons it worked out financially for me are:
I have a SBR lower already
I have a Geissele trigger installed already
I had a spare upper receiver
The cmmg stainless conversion kit with dedicated barrel and the boonie packer better mag make a great combo that uses the very good s&w 15-22 mags. I've run maybe a thousand rounds through it so far and it has never had a problem, regardless of ammo. I was at a steel challenge a couple weeks back and lots of .22 rifles were having problems, but mine was running very well.
So yeah, it's more expensive but imo, it's the higher quality option.
What I have is:
http://www.cmmginc.com/product_p/22d7c0a.htm
http://www.cmmginc.com/product_p/22ba4b1.htm
http://www.cmmginc.com/product_p/22ba596.htm
http://www.cmmginc.com/product_p/22ba487.htm
http://www.redi-mag.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=52
For $460 total. You need to add s&w mags, any standard AR upper receiver, a rail or handguard of some sort, a muzzle device, and sights or optics. You can get everything together at Brownells if they're in stock.
But it works great as a trainer, everything from bolt lock back on last round to the forward assist work as it should.
Failure2Stop
05-21-14, 02:04
I did a similar approach, except I had to replace several parts under the expected life
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4DAIVI PAI2K5
05-21-14, 07:57
Guys, How about Sig 522?
Had one and love it. Just didnt shoot it much after I done the below.
Id honestly get a dedicated .22 upper over any other choice.
Go all out and get a second SBR and chop the .22 barrel down to 12" (1.5" is inside the chamber on the 22 barrel so it mocks my 10.5" 5.56) :D
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t47/adam_parks/IMG_2441.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/adam_parks/media/IMG_2441.jpg.html)
I did a similar approach, except I had to replace several parts under the expected life
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Which parts, if I may ask? Recoil spring and guide rod? I can't imagine anything else requires replacing?
Go all out and get a second SBR and chop the .22 barrel down to 12" (1.5" is inside the chamber on the 22 barrel so it mocks my 10.5" 5.56) :D
I don't have a need for two SBR'd lowers. I was planning on chopping the .22 down to 4" or so (6.5" total) and running a can on it, but I never got around to getting a .22LR can.
I did a similar approach, except I had to replace several parts under the expected life
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What parts did you have problems with. What issues did you have?
I'm a fan of the dedicated 22 as well, however I do admit the 15-22 is a most cost effective option.
Another vote for the 15-22, bought one just after Sandy Hook thinking that 22lr would be all that was readily available for awhile. :eek:
Mine has never been picky with ammo, and has been a great training aid for myself and my kiddos.
HK without a doubt- I own the 416D and my brother had the S&W. For realism and weight, HK hands down- reliability, HK hands down.
I guess the reasons it worked out financially for me are:
I have a SBR lower already
I have a Geissele trigger installed already
I had a spare upper receiver
The cmmg stainless conversion kit with dedicated barrel and the boonie packer better mag make a great combo that uses the very good s&w 15-22 mags. I've run maybe a thousand rounds through it so far and it has never had a problem, regardless of ammo. I was at a steel challenge a couple weeks back and lots of .22 rifles were having problems, but mine was running very well.
So yeah, it's more expensive but imo, it's the higher quality option.
What I have is:
http://www.cmmginc.com/product_p/22d7c0a.htm
http://www.cmmginc.com/product_p/22ba4b1.htm
http://www.cmmginc.com/product_p/22ba596.htm
http://www.cmmginc.com/product_p/22ba487.htm
http://www.redi-mag.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=52
For $460 total. You need to add s&w mags, any standard AR upper receiver, a rail or handguard of some sort, a muzzle device, and sights or optics. You can get everything together at Brownells if they're in stock.
But it works great as a trainer, everything from bolt lock back on last round to the forward assist work as it should.
$460 for the upper?
Although that may be a good alternative for some, you can buy a brand new M&P15-22 for $399 shipped at Buds.
The cost factor is a no-brainer, esp for those with limited budgets. You get a complete rifle vs having to put one together from parts. And seeing how 22lr is still hard to get (or expensive if you can find it), any cost savings is a plus.
Back on topic, both are great options but the M&P15-22 is more popular and has been proven to be very reliable. I've shot thousands of rounds through mine with no issues except for ammo.
HK without a doubt- I own the 416D and my brother had the S&W. For realism and weight, HK hands down- reliability, HK hands down.
The M&P15-22 is a very reliable weapon. I hardly clean mine at all and it never gave me any gun-related issues through thousands of rounds.
Although I love HK, realism and weight is a side issue. You want the lighter gun to begin with...
$460 for the upper?
Although that may be a good alternative for some, you can buy a brand new M&P15-22 for $399 shipped at Buds.
The cost factor is a no-brainer, esp for those with limited budgets. You get a complete rifle vs having to put one together from parts. And seeing how 22lr is still hard to get (or expensive if you can find it), any cost savings is a plus.
Back on topic, both are great options but the M&P15-22 is more popular and has been proven to be very reliable. I've shot thousands of rounds through mine with no issues except for ammo.
The cost can be made up with triggers and stamp taxes. Again, that's why it was cheaper for me.
MajorLonghorn
11-25-14, 23:25
I have a 10/22 tricked out with Kidd and Volquartsen, but I wanted another 22lr semi auto. I considered all the Walther replicas, the Beretta ARX 160, and the 15-22, but in the end I went with the Sig 522. It is the best made of the bunch, and it is at least as accurate as any of them. The 15-22 was my first runner up, mainly for its AR parts compatibility, but the polymer upper lost out to the Sig's metal upper. I have a Trijicon RMR co-witnessed with the factory iron sights and I'm getting excellent results.
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TerdFergison
11-26-14, 09:49
I have a Walther HK MP-5 with thousands of rounds through it and not one issue. Remember, shit in shit out. If you use crappy ammo you will have crappy performance. You can't go wrong with either one you pick.
steelmover
11-29-14, 11:26
My 15-22 has been fantastic. Eats ammo with no jams. Functions like regular AR. Cant beat it.
I recently made a video comparing the two. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpitaoDVzVw
PatriotWorks
12-04-14, 20:17
I've had great experience with the 15/22 but..... If you need parts, it's back to S&W as they don't have a source for parts like bolts, extractors etc etc. Seems to me that they would be smart to offer parts like bull barrels, bolt parts bolt assemblies, etc.
I'd go with the S&W. It is more popular, so magazines should be easier to get in the future. Also, you can get an adapter to run S&W mags with the ubiquitous CMMG upper.
http://www.redi-mag.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=52
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Also, keep an eye on Palmetto State Armory. They have been selling both the 15-22 and 416 for $299!
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalogsearch/result/?q=15-22
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I recently made a video comparing the two. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpitaoDVzVw
Wow, excellent video mooneyb! Very thorough and well done!
I would love to hear your thoughts on the Sig 522 if you've ever had the opportunity to shoot/examine one.
Thanks!
Wow, excellent video mooneyb! Very thorough and well done!
I would love to hear your thoughts on the Sig 522 if you've ever had the opportunity to shoot/examine one.
Thanks!
I haven't been able to get one yet. It is on my short list though. I have nearly pulled the trigger a couple times on buying one in the past. I have looked at many reviews and it looks like it would be a solid rifle. My collection has turned to tactical 22's. They are fun and relatively cheap.
I say M&P. Got mine back in 2010 and it's been great. I just can't get over the fact that the HK and Colt are just licensed names. If I buy an HK or Colt I want them to be made by the real mccoy.
If I were buying another tactical .22lr I'd be looking hard at the CMMG model that has a real lower that can also take a centerfire upper. I haven't done enough research yet to determine if they are GTG, but I held one at the LGS and liked it.
MajorLonghorn
12-18-14, 19:38
Sig 522 is also the real deal.
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The cost can be made up with triggers and stamp taxes. Again, that's why it was cheaper for me.
This is not feasible for those on tight budgets and those who don't care much for aftermarket mods. The 15-22 is an awesome rifle as is. When I compared them side by side at the LGS, that 416 trigger was horrendous.
If you have the bankroll though, go for it.
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