Precision rifle kit-needs and don't needs???

[Got UZI]

I'm getting into longer range shooting and I need to know what would be the need vs need nots. I have a Savage Model 10 FCP McMillan with a Leupold VX3 6.5-20 on top of it with a good base and rings, and a solid Harris bipod. I'm working on what bullet weights it likes and it appears that 180 Sierra BTHP are king so now the reloading chore begins.

But what I need to know is what support gear do I need? Range finder? Winder meter? Sand sock? Ect. I have a decent spotting scope already so I can cross that off the list. Any info would be great.

[Supergyro]

It's time to read, read, shoot a little, and read some more. I had no idea what I didn't know until I read a bunch, shot some, and read about what I didn't know.

As far as gear goes, at some point you WILL own an anenometer, a couple different rear bags, and a solid ballistics calc. (Applied Ballistics or equivalent)
When all this is purchased is up to you, but it might as well start helping now.
Also, you should be recording every shot in a data book from here on out so you can learn from every shot.

My $.02, YMMV, IMHO, ETC...

Sent from my SCH-I500

[Got UZI]

Thanks for the input. I've already got a log book going with round count, conditions, ammunitions, results, cleaning, and such.

[halo2304]

You might want to get a data book first and check Ebay for a used Kestrel windmeter. I have a Kestrel 3000.

Here's some good info to read/watch to get you started:
Shooting Voodoo (http://www.shootingvoodoo.com/index.php/articles/) (Articles & Library)
8541 Tactical (http://8541tactical.com/) (Articles & Youtube videos)

[Supergyro]

Also, Demigod LLC is a great source of info, as well as the Hide, though it is a lot to wade through.

Sent from my SCH-I500

[taliv]

you know there's a sticky thread about this topic in this forum, right? I'd suggest scanning through that and asking much more specific questions.

[BOOSTjunkie]

Also, Demigod LLC is a great source of info, as well as the Hide, though it is a lot to wade through.

Sent from my SCH-I500

http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-equipment/

start here... i stumbled on this article a great many years ago and it is still pretty much relevant.

But also may i inquire as to what type of "long range" shooting you plan on doing? KD vs unknown distance? F Class? Camp Perry type matches? "tactical' precision shooting matches? long range hunter? plinking? all this will effect what you really "need" vs not.

[halo2304]

you know there's a sticky thread about this topic in this forum, right? I'd suggest scanning through that and asking much more specific questions.

Is this (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?114602-PRECISION-SHOOTING-SUPPORT-EQUIPMENT) the link you're referring to? If so, it seems of little help for those who don't know what they don't know.


But also may i inquire as to what type of "long range" shooting you plan on doing? KD vs unknown distance? F Class? Camp Perry type matches? "tactical' precision shooting matches? long range hunter? plinking? all this will effect what you really "need" vs not.

^ This! While a lot of the equipment is probably the same for all or most of them, knowing the specific discipline would help. Also, what range(s) are you looking to shoot at.

[Got UZI]

I want to be able to shoot unknown distance with MOA or better out to 1,000 yards. At some point I'd like to shoot tactical precision matches. My main goal is that I can learn this and be proficient at it as it's the one thing I haven't done shooting wise. To be able to take a shot at an unknown distance, read the wind, and make a cold bore shot with an effective hit is my goal.

And I read the sticky and I understood some of it but not all so sometimes those aren't always a one stop shop for answers.

[taliv]

ok, i probably lug way too much stuff around in matches, and a lot more than most people. but my basic kit is broken into groups:

eberlestock lo drag
on the outside, i have a case for eyepro, a camping micro towel, pouches for range finder and kestrel, cyalume sticks for night stages, and a few carabiners for rear bags and boots and helmets etc.
in the sheath i usually carry misc stuff like rain gear. i have a shooting mat rolled up and attached to the bottom.

in the top, i have ammo and magazines and my dope bag, which contains pens, grease pencils, note cards, velcro, laminate, mil dot master, dope cards, etc in a large zip loc bag. I also have a vortex monocular.

in the bottom, i have a shemagh, high power glove, IFAK and sun screen/bug spray, mechanics gloves, knee pads, and a borka tool kit with precision rifle stuff like torque wrenches etc. i usually have a few energy bars in there too.

on my belt, i have my dope cards on a retractable lanyard, a pistol holster and 2 pistol mag holders and 2 AICS rifle mag holsters and a dump pouch.

on the rifle i have my sling and a rear bag attached via flush cups.

i'm not sure how helpful having a list like that is. it's really about how you use it and finding stuff that works for you.

http://precisionmultigun.com/pics/kit5-14.jpg

[taliv]

i think the critical things are not necessarily things you use in the match. for example, a good ballistic program, chronograph, friends who can help spot for you, etc.

at most matches, they will give you the distances, so you don't need a range finder. but it sure comes in handy when you are by yourself and trying to gather data.
if you are on a budget, you can get by pulling DA from local weather stations from an app on your phone. but it's pretty nice to have it measured where you are, along with temp. at a match, there will be plenty of people with a kestrel, and all of them will tell you what the DA is. so you don't really need one of those either.

rear bags are critical. the right one depends on what stock you use. don't use a sand sock unless you just like carrying heavy crap around. get a str8laced bag with the microbead poly fill. at most matches that involve a lot of positional stuff, having a larger bag is important too. weibad's pump pillow is a good example. not necessary, but it will probably mean a few extra points.

at team matches, a spotting scope is an advantage and worth the weight. individual matches, no need for it.

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Let's start with another question:

Where are you going to be shooting? Square range with wind flags and a target tender to mark the hits with a spotting disk? The middle of the desert, a corn field, the woods? If it is the later, a steel target greatly helps as you get instant feedback on hits based on where the paint gets knocked off. Also know that if you really want to learn to read / shoot in the wind, you need to shoot in non square range enviros, on blue bird days AND shitty weather, most importantly - in a variety of places. Wind is as much an art as it is a science.

The basics - rifle / ammo / a means to chrono and determine drop and drift (record this) / a means to call wind / a means to determine distance / a means to correctly determine dope / a means to spot hits and misses / a means to haul your gear.

Priorities? A spotter with a ranging ret is what I would focus on first. Buy a pretty good one - a first focal Loopy with a TMR would be a a reasonable minimum standard. You need learn to read mirage and a spotter is the best means to do this. Ranging - the ranging reticle will not be as accurate as an LRF, but with practice you will be within 5% on known size objects out to 1k. (Mathematically workout how a 5% error impacts your dope) Not saying your aren't going to have a lot of work to get there - but you will get there if you consistently put the work in.

Wind meters tell you how hard the wind is blowing where you are. It gives you a reference at a single position. A spotter will allow you to read mirage at multiple positions. From there it is about being observant - listening for changes in the wind (suppressed shooting) or watching for changes in the amount of movement in vegetation along the bullet flight path, changes in mirage, understanding the timing of the day's wind cycle. Wind meter, get one that will give you atmospherics when you can. Use those atmospherics to plug into the ballistic software that you carry on your phone. As a manual backup - get yourself a Field Density Altitude Compensator by Adaptive (slide rule).

LFRs - yeah, get one when you can, they are more accurate and faster. Otherwise, learn to use you spotter with a ranging ret and confirm it against a topo map. Can't do that yet? Use a GPS. Both the map (with a roamer and the GPS will put you within 10 meters). . Also get a Mil Dot Master - it is faster than a calculator, but you should carry a calculator and fully understand the math for MOA / MILs (and be able to think and work in both) in terms of slope, leads, drift, and distance. Commit the constants for all of these calcs to memory.

While you can shoot off of your ruck / pack, and place the butt of the rifle in the crook of your wrist while you hook your thumb in the collar of your shirt (and you should practice this just b/c it is part of being a rifleman) a bi-pod and a sand sock are more accurate. You can make your own sand sock of an old pant leg and some poly pellets.

Get, learn how, and become proficient with a sling.

Pads / prayer rugs - I have them but don't use them. I prefer a tarp if is raining and / or wet but use nothing if it is dry. I do wear hardshell elbow pads.

Tri-pod - in true field conditions a full size tri pod is very handy. You can trim the last leg section to cut down on some weight and bulk. Take a piece of sheet metal and fold it into a U, then duct tape some sleeping pad to the inside of the U and affix a proper mount so you can attach it to your tri pod head - now you have a shooting cradle.

Snivel gear - terrain, weather, and personal needs will dictate.

Training - you'll flatten the learning curve if you can get someone that really knows teach you. If not, Snipershide has an online training program, if nothing else - read, think, dry fire.

Reloading - you'll produce more accurate ammo than you can buy and for less $ if you reload. It will also deepen your understanding of ballistics.

There are so many doodads that you buy, some of which help and some of which don't add much. On the cheap, I start with the basics above and once you have a baseline of skill, you can pick what you need to add.

Good luck

[Got UZI]

Thanks for the info. I plan on shooting on a square range but the wind on it is anything if not unpredictable.

I have been reading and watching more and more on this and I'm sure I'll be back for more info soon. Main thing is to get good trigger control and work on the basics. I have a good supply for ammunition but I am also gathering data from my rifle/ammo combo this weekend so I can start to work up loads for it too.

[halo2304]

Regarding wind, I've heard one tip more than a few times. It requires a wind meter like a Kestrel. When you're outside while the wind is blowing, try guessing what the wind speed is by feel and by observing the world around you. Once you've guessed, pull out your meter and see if you're right.

It's not much, but here's part of my setup so far:
Savage MKii FV-SR
Some no-name scope (to be replaced)
Harris 6-9" bipod
Blackhawk stock pack (needs to be raised)
Bushnell spotting scope
Maxpedition Sabercat
The shooting mat is a $6 moving blanket
Kestrel 3000 (not shown)
Homemade data book (Not shown)

For now, I'm stuck at 100yds, max at my range. There's a 200yd range that I just heard about, but I've got a few upgrades and some testing to do before that happens.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e309/halo2304/Guns/WP_001507_zps656ac6bd.jpg

[CC556]

Here's what I bring to matches:

In a bag in the car: Pliers, allen key set, spare extractor/firing pin assembly, cleaning rod

In my pack (X3 LoDrag):
Rifle with Harris S-BRM
Laser range finder
Sling
TAB rear bag
Shemagh
Bikini scope cover
Pens
Small notepad
Kestrel
Old phone with ballistics software
PRS tripod (I really have no idea why I keep lugging this around, it's great for if you have a lot of time to set up but I find in matches it's rarely useful)
Sage Flats Shooters ammo wallets
A couple of magazines
A couple individual allen/torx wrenches for the fasteners on my gun

I like to pack light for matches, especially the ones around here where you'll walk a few miles on shitty terrain. In addition to the shooting-related things in the pack I'll toss some water and snacks in there. I also obviously have eye/ear pro but I generally just wear it or stick the ear plugs in my pocket when I'm not around shooting. I also keep my "wrist coach" thing on my arm and before stages I'll write my notes or corrections for that stage down.

[BrigandTwoFour]

Sounds like you're working your way down the same path I am.

The best advice I received was to not worry about all the superfluous stuff. Burn out your factory barrel practicing fundamentals. Shoot dot drills, positions, supported, unsupported, more dot drills, seek instruction, and then do it again. Understand your rifle, know it inside and out. Too many people are focused on perfecting their equipment, but not their own skills. And I say this as someone who is whole-heartedly a "geardo," and having a terrible time not being tempted by the latest whizbang that might help me shoot better. The reality is that just about every one of us who is new to this is unable to outshoot the rifle anyway.

In any case, the stuff I've found useful so far: ways to document shooting (I don't necessarily document every shot, but more of an overall performance for the string), sling (if you want to do positions), good bipod (Harris, Atlas, XDS, etc.), rear bag (I use a Triad wedge, but the TAB is good as well), shooting mat (if desired), and lots of ammunition. Buy the rest of the stuff once you actually need it.

[BOOSTjunkie]

Also what is your budget... this will effect what you can get

[Got UZI]

I'm a firm believer in the "buy once, cry once" philosophy but I don't want to spend money that I don't need to. I'll save to get what I need. I hope that makes sense on the budget.

[beb0541]

You need a good spotting scope, a Kestrel wind meeter, and most tactical reticles allow you to range if you know the size of the target. I suppose a range finder makes it easier if your hunting and need to make snap shots on animals that your not certain of the size on.

[jmac603]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mark5pt56]

As stated, sort through the threads and post in this one. Ask yourself what you want to do with your set up. Take the advice from guys who compete as they've had opportunities to try various equipment under conditions that test it. They've also seen many others and what may work and what doesn't. As always, you will tweak things along the way as you progress. I would say to count the trips from the garage to the car when going to the range and call that a clue as well. If you start to reload, find a good load and stick with it verses trying every flavor that's invented -or never will be. In .308- a good start is either a Sierra Match King, 175 or the Hornady 178 Boat Tail Hollow Point with IMR4064 42-43.5 grains. 2000MR goes well with them also, would have to check the charge range for what I've done. A nice(for me) long range load is the Berger 185 Juggernaut with 47 grains of 2000MR.
If you really want to learn about ballistics, get both of Bryan Litzs' books. It helps to understand certain things and also put some in perspective.

To add-learn how to read the wind and know it's effects on your bullet. Furthermore, how to shoot in various wind conditions.

[bottom_gun]

Once you know your rifle and dope, get a rear bag and some ammo and go to a local match. You might not dominate the course, but you'll get a chance to see a variety of gear in action and talk to the guys to see what works for them and possibly get some hands-on, close-up looks at different options to see what you'd like to invest in. At the end of the day you'll have a pretty good idea what to put on your shopping list. From experience, I recommend you take notes and keep adding to your list as you find things that will work for you, then you can use that as a match prep checklist so you don't get to a match and realize that thing you needed for a stage is sitting on your reloading bench.

[tonyben]

Detailed logs are critical! When you post a range report, give as much information as possible as it helps knowledgeable members figure out what's wrong or what advice to give.

Tony.