View Full Version : Magtech CBC 5.56 77gr OTM MK262 MOD 1 Clone
This ammo has finally been released after over a year of planing and engineering. It is designed to be an exact clone of the Blackhills MK262 MOD 1 (for less money).
It is now up on our website and is offered in 50rds-1,000rds packages. Shipping is a flat rate of just $10 dollars!!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&searchstart=9&category=MAGT
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Magtech/77gr-Box.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Magtech/77gr_50rdBox.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Magtech/77gr_Round.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Magtech/77gr_Bullet.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Magtech/77gr_Primer.jpg
How interesting. I might grab some of these.
Looks good... at $0.80/rd that's an amazing price!
How interesting. I might grab some of these.
I have shot some very good groups with it. We broke it down to 50rd boxes so people could give it a try.
C4
Yeah... I load my own, but I do like trying factory stuff so I don't get stuck in my own realm.
I have shot some very good groups with it. We broke it down to 50rd boxes so people could give it a try.
C4
Based on what even the CBC 55gr stuff can do, I'm really curious to see how decent this is - just having it available might be justification to delay buying reloading equipment for me.
When loading or shooting a more Combat style load like this. I get LESS hyper-critical about accuracy. I run a hotter primer in my 77 gr SMK load for defense... it hurts velocity standard deviations, and doesn't shoot as accurate as my target ammo, but it's a twat hair more rugged/reliable.
If the load is MOA-ish and throwing the bullet good and fast, I'm in.
When loading or shooting a more Combat style load like this. I get LESS hyper-critical about accuracy. I run a hotter primer in my 77 gr SMK load for defense... it hurts velocity standard deviations, and doesn't shoot as accurate as my target ammo, but it's a twat hair more rugged/reliable.
If the load is MOA-ish and throwing the bullet good and fast, I'm in.
I shot the first batch of this ammo into the country last Fall. It produced sub-moa out of a Krieger barrel.
Out of a BFH BARREL, I GOT 1 MOA.
Like you, that is what I am after with this type of load.
C4
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Grant if you're are still awake, could you PM me a coupon code please :o so I can place an order tonight.
Just ignore my post in the G&R FB post.
I know its not JuanValdez:p
I'm reading a lot of Ironman8's post and I think this will do nice for Home Defense.
If you have further recommendations for Home Defense, please do share.
Grant,
How do you feel this compares to the IMI 77gr. loading? I shot some of it and was pretty impressed with what I saw.
Robb Jensen
05-30-14, 05:36
I'm shooting some this weekend and might get a chance to chrono it too.
Grant if you're are still awake, could you PM me a coupon code please :o so I can place an order tonight.
Just ignore my post in the G&R FB post.
I know its not JuanValdez:p
I'm reading a lot of Ironman8's post and I think this will do nice for Home Defense.
If you have further recommendations for Home Defense, please do share.
PM sent.
C4
Grant,
How do you feel this compares to the IMI 77gr. loading? I shot some of it and was pretty impressed with what I saw.
I honestly cannot say as I have never shot it.
C4
Looking at the annealing on the cases.... it almost looks like they use gas flame rather than induction. Some of the cartridges have a lighter iris than others. Not a functional thing... just my obsessive nature.
PM sent.
C4
Ordered...thanks for the coupon...can't wait to hear R's CD
Ned Christiansen
05-30-14, 10:23
My experience with CBC 55 and 62 grain loads has been good (although I did not really get down on the bags with them). I'm anxious to try some of this. Do I see in the pic that the bullets are cannelured but cases are not crimped?
Maybe a slight taper crimp? I wonder if there's neck sealant.
Maybe a slight taper crimp? I wonder if there's neck sealant.
Yes on neck sealant.
C4
ad_infinitum
05-30-14, 13:41
Thanks for posting.
Free Agent
05-31-14, 18:25
That's a good price. Grant, I sent you a PM.
Robb Jensen
06-01-14, 19:31
I shot and chrono'd some today along with some real "out of a craft brown 20 round boxes" BH Mk262 Mod 1. The Magtech is just as accurate but faster and has a little more recoil than real BH Mk262 Mod 1.
Accuracy was roughly the same I wasn't measuring groups but it was just as accurate as BH Mk262 Mod 1. 18" gun has a 1-4x S&B Short Dot and the 14.5" gun has a 2MOA Aimpoint M4.
Chrono data:
18" BCM SS410 w/BH Mk262 Mod 1 = average velocity 2763fps, extreme spread 38fps
18" BCM SS410 w/Magtech 77gr OTM = average velocity 2778fps, extreme spread 27fps
14.5" BCM BFH Midlength w/BH Mk262 Mod 1 = 2656fps, extreme spread 49fps
14.5" BCM BFH Midlength w/Magtech 77gr OTM = 2670fps, extreme spread 22fps
This will be on my list of ammo to buy, even though the 62gr and M193 stuff does all I need it to for now.
Grant, do you know of Magtech/CBC will be coming out with any bonded loads, like the TBBC or Gold dot?
This will be on my list of ammo to buy, even though the 62gr and M193 stuff does all I need it to for now.
Grant, do you know of Magtech/CBC will be coming out with any bonded loads, like the TBBC or Gold dot?
Not really sure what they are doing on the Defense side of 5.56. I do know that their 300 blackout round should be available soon.
C4
18" BCM SS410 w/Magtech 77gr OTM = average velocity 2778fps, extreme spread 27fps
Wow! That is moving. Using XBR powder, if I get that velocity out of a 20 inch barrel, I start popping primers.
Wow! That is moving. Using XBR powder, if I get that velocity out of a 20 inch barrel, I start popping primers.
Ya, that is interesting. I kind of expected it to be slightly below the factory stuff.
C4
Robb Jensen
06-02-14, 16:29
That must have been a pretty big LOT Grant, that's the same LOT # as we got.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/imagejpg1-2.jpg
Wow! That is moving. Using XBR powder, if I get that velocity out of a 20 inch barrel, I start popping primers.
Which component(s) would explain this phenomenon of the CBC ammo not popping primers? Staked primers? How do the powders burn differently?
Robb Jensen
06-02-14, 20:16
Big loading companies have access to powders that handloaders don't that can make velocity but operate at lower pressures. Some can make some incredible speeds too without burning out throats like .220Swift used to back in the day.
Which component(s) would explain this phenomenon of the CBC ammo not popping primers? Crimped primers? How do the powders burn differently?
I could be running a powder that's faster... peaks quicker, pressure spikes earlier. Also... I was shooting unstaked primers. If I were velocity obsessed, I could use the powder they list on the label... or TAC or CFE and wring out some more FPS.
You can get there... but the 77 SMK frags like a grenade even in an SBR, so.... 40 FPS more for a civilian who wouldn't likely shoot someone at 500 yards? I'd rather just stick with the loads I know.
Do the staked primers or different powder explain the difference, or is it a combination of the two? I own all of the variables, just not the time to verify.
Different powder... and perhaps an influence by the kind of primer. The main diff in what manufacturers work with is that their powder lots aren't canister grade... so they work up on a lot that's not the exact same characteristics of the powder you'd buy on the shelf.
They don't have magic powders any better than what you or I can get. It's just that they formulate a load on the lot of powder they are running. For example, I've pulled different years of XM193 down and found that you get different weights of ball powder.
How do people compare these to the IMI offering using the same projectile at the same price?
DreadPirateMoyer
06-11-14, 02:05
This looks like awesome stuff. A few questions for you, Grant:
1. Is the primer also sealed like the neck?
2. Will the coupon code I got from you a few months ago work here?
3. Do you have 5,000 rounds in stock? (seriously) :cool:
4. All the same lot?
This looks like awesome stuff. A few questions for you, Grant:
1. Is the primer also sealed like the neck?
2. Will the coupon code I got from you a few months ago work here?
3. Do you have 5,000 rounds in stock? (seriously) :cool:
4. All the same lot?
1. Yes.
2. No (there is no coupon code for ammo).
3. Yes.
4. Most likely.
C4
Only able to order one case at a time?
Also still interested if anyone has compared these to the IMI offering, thanks.
Only able to order one case at a time?
Also still interested if anyone has compared these to the IMI offering, thanks.
We have raised it to 5 cases.
C4
Out of curiosity, for those of you that practice with 55 grain ammo but keep your HD mags loaded with something like this, how close do the two loads print to each other? If you sight in with 55 grain factory ammo at 50 yards, are we talking feet apart at 100 yards? I know the answer is probably to have a second rifle loaded and set up around your favorite HD ammo, but I'm not quite there yet.
Out of curiosity, for those of you that practice with 55 grain ammo but keep your HD mags loaded with something like this, how close do the two loads print to each other? If you sight in with 55 grain factory ammo at 50 yards, are we talking feet apart at 100 yards? I know the answer is probably to have a second rifle loaded and set up around your favorite HD ammo, but I'm not quite there yet.
For me its never more than just a couple inches and that is at 100 yards. At a garbage local range they have a crappy gong at 100 yards. It is roughly a 4 inch square. Zeroed with 55 grain loads the 75/77s will hit the gong always using the same point of aim. Holding dead center. I never really measured it but when shooting both they always seem within a couple inches definitely not feet.
Out of curiosity, for those of you that practice with 55 grain ammo but keep your HD mags loaded with something like this, how close do the two loads print to each other? If you sight in with 55 grain factory ammo at 50 yards, are we talking feet apart at 100 yards? I know the answer is probably to have a second rifle loaded and set up around your favorite HD ammo, but I'm not quite there yet.
I zero my HD rifle at 50yds with my HD ammo (Barnes TSX handloads) and leave it there. Luckily bulk 55gr handloads impact in the same exact spot. Even if they were 6" apart, I wouldn't be too worried about it as long as the rifle is zeroed with my HD ammo.
FWIW, always zero with what you intend to use in SHTF scenarios. If you need to train, zero for that ammo, then re-zero for SHTF ammo.
.3mils down and .2/.3 mils left at 100 meters. On my rifles with red dots, there is no real discernible shift. This is using 55gr Summit Ammunition and my own loaded 77gr at MK262 speed. Zeros are 100 meters.
Edited to add:
If you zero at a closer range and then shoot at 100 yards, typically you should see a greater difference between the two.
Out of curiosity, for those of you that practice with 55 grain ammo but keep your HD mags loaded with something like this, how close do the two loads print to each other? If you sight in with 55 grain factory ammo at 50 yards, are we talking feet apart at 100 yards? I know the answer is probably to have a second rifle loaded and set up around your favorite HD ammo, but I'm not quite there yet.
Thanks. I could have been having an off day, but I recall my 69 grain loads printing a few inches different than the 55 grain ammo I sighted in with at 50 yards. I guess I was thinking 77 grain ammo would be further off yet. I'll have to give it another go tomorrow.
Turns out my rifle's zero was higher than I remember it. 4" higher at 50 yards, actually. At 50 yards, I'm not seeing a significant difference between 55, 69, and 77 grain loads. I'm going to have to try this Magtech 77 ammo.
Ned Christiansen
07-01-14, 19:45
Grant, is this still available in 50 round boxes? I'd like to get a couple boxes but not seeing it offered that way any more.
Thanks
Picked up some of this brass at the range two weeks ago. I really like the brass for reloading. Nice primer pockets.
Picked up some of this brass at the range two weeks ago. I really like the brass for reloading. Nice primer pockets.
What's the case volume like? I've heard before that mag tech is a bit smaller than other 223 brass.
What's the case volume like? I've heard before that mag tech is a bit smaller than other 223 brass.
Unlike the other CBC brass, this stuff seems to be on par with normal brass. I did a few pour tests with a powder charge and it's fine. I had some low volume brass to compare too. It's good.
Just purchased some of this from G and R and wow! Getting 1/2-1/4 " groups all day long at 100 yds with a 16" ss410 bcm barrel. Haven't had a chance to stretch out the distance quite yet but really looking forward tk seeing what it can do
Just purchased some of this from G and R and wow! Getting 1/2-1/4 " groups all day long at 100 yds with a 16" ss410 bcm barrel.
You'll never be able to go back to crappy ball ammo again. ;)
Agreed! I'm going to have to get a second job to fund my addiction
Agreed! I'm going to have to get a second job to fund my addiction
Handloading time.
Handloading time.
Talk about handloading time! Wideners has 8lbers of XBR AND H322!
Talk about handloading time! Wideners has 8lbers of XBR AND H322!
That's a nice post to read. :)
I started buying some of this recently as SHTF/HD ammo. Hopefully it is a good choice for that purpose compared to M193 or similar.
I started buying some of this recently as SHTF/HD ammo. Hopefully it is a good choice for that purpose compared to M193 or similar.
It's probably only 10 times better than M193 at everything. ;)
Good to hear as it is certainly more costly (about 3x).
Grant, is this still available in 50 round boxes? I'd like to get a couple boxes but not seeing it offered that way any more.
Thanks
Sure is.
C4
Good to hear as it is certainly more costly (about 3x).
Not any more. Magtech just lowered the price on it!
Case of 1k is now $600!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CBC556C
C4
Not any more. Magtech just lowered the price on it!
Case of 1k is now $600!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CBC556C
C4
Very good price per round.
Not any more. Magtech just lowered the price on it!
Case of 1k is now $600!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CBC556C
C4
Wow. I don't think I could reload similar ammo cheaper than that.
Wow. I don't think I could reload similar ammo cheaper than that.
Seriously?!?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Seriously?!?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hm.
$260 for 1000 77gr SMKs
About $85 for 1000 rds worth of powder (about 3.3 pounds)
$35 for 1000 primers
$220 for 1000 new brass
I guess that is a little cheaper, and you save money by reusing brass. But it's not much cheaper with new components.
Hm.
$260 for 1000 77gr SMKs
About $85 for 1000 rds worth of powder (about 3.3 pounds)
$35 for 1000 primers
$220 for 1000 new brass
I guess that is a little cheaper, and you save money by reusing brass. But it's not much cheaper with new components.
Your brass & primer prices are killing you.
I don't normally factor brass in as I only use OFB. Even if I factor the cost of LC OFB (Wideners) in with current component prices advertised on MidwayUSA, I calculate just shy of $0.42. I'm currently around roughly $0.30 for my 77 SMK load but I've been stocked up on components for quite awhile. Factoring in today's prices and I'd be at $0.35/round.
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Not any more. Magtech just lowered the price on it!
Case of 1k is now $600!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CBC556C
C4
This makes me incredibly sad (and happy at the same time). Just bought a case last week :(
This makes me incredibly sad (and happy at the same time). Just bought a case last week :(
Sorry, we had no knowledge of the cost drop till just the other day.
C4
Hm.
$260 for 1000 77gr SMKs
About $85 for 1000 rds worth of powder (about 3.3 pounds)
$35 for 1000 primers
$220 for 1000 new brass
I guess that is a little cheaper, and you save money by reusing brass. But it's not much cheaper with new components.
Sub Nosler CCs with cannalure and you can drop $0.10 per round off the top with NO downside. And you can also save money and gain performance with WOLF or TULA primers.
For Defense ammo, I pull some XM193 or something apart and use the brass. Otherwise, I just pick up once fire LC at the range for free.
yhmspecter
09-12-14, 14:48
Markm thank you for remindng me about the Nosler CC. I was able to score 300 of the 77gr CCs from Shooters Pro Shop for 52 shipped(blems). But on another note PSA has this CBC 77gr OTM for 29.99 for 50 rounds on clearance.
But on another note PSA has this CBC 77gr OTM for 29.99 for 50 rounds on clearance.
Got some. Thank you. Their shipping was very reasonable.
Thanks for the heads up on the PSA deal!
Has anyone shot this suppressed? Any problems? I love this ammo but I always try to do a little research before I shoot a new type with a can.
Has anyone shot this suppressed? Any problems? I love this ammo but I always try to do a little research before I shoot a new type with a can.
No issues.
C4
You have to work hard to screw up a Sierra OTM bullet. If you're running those through your can, you're doing everything in your power (short of handloading) to play it safe.
Thanks guys. I'm going to have to acquire more. I'm really digging this CBC stuff.
This stuff sounds pretty interesting. I've got an Appleseed KD shoot coming up on the 18th / 19th and would like to see what it can do out to 500 yards using a DD MK18.
Grant, could I get it in time to check zero before the shoot?
And, has anyone tried it at this distance from an SBR?
This ammo will easily do 500. But isn't Appleseed an Irons sight based shoot? I do much better with a rifle sight radius at 500 yards.
This stuff sounds pretty interesting. I've got an Appleseed KD shoot coming up on the 18th / 19th and would like to see what it can do out to 500 yards using a DD MK18.
Grant, could I get it in time to check zero before the shoot?
And, has anyone tried it at this distance from an SBR?
I am sure we could.
C4
This ammo will easily do 500. But isn't Appleseed an Irons sight based shoot? I do much better with a rifle sight radius at 500 yards.
Appleseed teaches fundamentals based on the M1 Garand & GI sling. Good scores using irons, scopes or red dots all take good fundamentals & are usually pretty close. I just want to mix it up a little using a 10.3", EOTech / 3X. My MK18 seems to group better using 69 - 77 grain rounds. I'll post results here after the shoot.
**ordered 500 rounds**
I've slung 77s out to 500 with Pappabear's 11.5 and an Aimpoint T1. Depends on the conditions of the day. Some days it's no big deal, and other days it's a fight to get those hits.
sevenhelmet
10-17-14, 20:51
Lucky Gunner has 50 rd boxes of this stuff for $0.55 a round, and 1000 round cases for $0.53 per round.
buckkiller35
10-17-14, 22:25
[QUOTE=Robb Jensen;1925730]That must have been a pretty big LOT Grant, that's the same LOT # as we got.
I just received some today with the same lot # as yours.
TexasAggie2005
10-18-14, 10:31
Palmetto State Armory still has it in stock too, $29 per 50rds. And their shipping is cheaper than Lucky Gunner's.
sevenhelmet
10-18-14, 12:11
[QUOTE=Robb Jensen;1925730]That must have been a pretty big LOT Grant, that's the same LOT # as we got.
I just received some today with the same lot # as yours.
Interestingly, mine also has the same lot #.
Palmetto State Armory still has it in stock too, $29 per 50rds. And their shipping is cheaper than Lucky Gunner's.
I posted about PSA having it in stock on this thread a couple weeks back but don't see my post, it must have been removed. Good deal by PSA though!
sevenhelmet
10-18-14, 16:43
Palmetto State Armory still has it in stock too, $29 per 50rds. And their shipping is cheaper than Lucky Gunner's.
Not for my location. 8 boxes was about $11 more from PSA, shipped. The $1.50 per box cost savings from LG more than offset the higher shipping cost.
But for small orders of <5 boxes, PSA has the better deal.
It's nice to be able to bargain shop for good ammo again! :)
TexanInCali
10-18-14, 18:10
This stuff and the CBC MAgTech 62gr FMJ have got to be some of the best values in 5.56 these days. The 62gr can be had for about the same price as AE, PPU, PMC, etc. and is leagues better. It has become my standard plinking ammo.
Palmetto State Armory still has it in stock too, $29 per 50rds. And their shipping is cheaper than Lucky Gunner's.
That may be true on the shipping. But Luckygunner has it for $525 per 1000 rds (which works out to $26.25 for 50 rds).
But the thing I like most about Luckygunner is that that will put it in a second larger box to protect the ammo (for free) if you choose the "overbox" option when checking out.
I've gotten ammo from Palmetto State Armory (and others) before where the ammo has been damaged. I just got some 5.56 from Palmetto where the tips of the rounds were sticking out of the box. That's pretty bad. I measured some rounds and of course the bullets were set back in the case on a lot of them.
Joe Mamma
TexasAggie2005
10-19-14, 12:44
That may be true on the shipping. But Luckygunner has it for $525 per 1000 rds (which works out to $26.25 for 50 rds).
But the thing I like most about Luckygunner is that that will put it in a second larger box to protect the ammo (for free) if you choose the "overbox" option when checking out.
I've gotten ammo from Palmetto State Armory (and others) before where the ammo has been damaged. I just got some 5.56 from Palmetto where the tips of the rounds were sticking out of the box. That's pretty bad. I measured some rounds and of course the bullets were set back in the case on a lot of them.
Joe Mamma
Good to know. Thanks.
I picked up a few boxes to try out before dropping the coin on a case. This stuff shoots.
Rifle:
DDM4V5 1/7" twist, medium profile
Trijicon TR24 1-4 with green triangle reticle (set at 4x)
Geissele SSA-E
Surefire SOCOM Mini 556
Range:
100 yards
58 degrees, no discernible wind
bench rested off bean bags in front, hand-supported stock
Strings:
Ran a bore snake through the file and then fired 15 rounds of CBC 62 gr I had laying around (shoots about 1.5-2 MOA).
After those shots, I shot 4 5-shot strings from the same mag. I did not let the rifle cool between strings. Shots were pretty much back to back. Once the gun settled and I had a new sight picture, I squeezed off another round.
Results (measured O.D. and subtracted .224):
String 1: .808"
String 2: 1.006"
String 3: 1.496"
String 4: 1.424"
My go-to handload for this rifle shoots .9-1" groups if I do my part. "Bad" groups with this load are around 1.2". I'm sure the heat really impacted the group sizes in the later strings but I'm stoked on this ammo. It's excellent ammo, especially given the price.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u211/elwoodcg/photo-1.jpg (http://s169.photobucket.com/user/elwoodcg/media/photo-1.jpg.html)
ChrisCross
10-20-14, 01:01
This stuff is amazing and my colts eat it up... sadly it's a little expensive to shoot often.
I'll also second I really like the overbox option from LG. Keeps things from getting damaged and keeps the neightbors from gossiping more then they already do.
I was hoping to get some good data out of my Dd MK18 this last weekend but the damn EOTech died on shot #8. Prone, sling only: 1st 3 round sighter @ 300 yards = ~2-3 MOA. 2nd 3 round sighter @ 300 yards <2 MOA. 3rd sighter had two shots nearly touching and that was that. I had to switch to irons the rest of the day.
We ran a drill called the balloon challenge. 60 second limit. Run from the 400 to 300 yard berm. Drop into prone. Get into the sling. Fire up to 5 shots @ 3 12" (4 MOA) balloons. 1st try = all misses. Dialed the front post down 1 click. 2nd try I popped all 3 using 4 shots. :cool:
FYSA....PSA has it at $26.99/50rds for Black Friday. Think this would be a good option for my SPR? I used an 18" Seekins, 1:8 in 223 Wylde.
Yes, definitely a solid option. FYI, LuckyGunner has 1K for $525 + shipping.
looks like PSA already went OOS. Is Lucky Gunner legit? Never ordered from them and haven't heard 100% positive.
Legit, I have ordered CBC 77 and 62 from them on multiple occasions.
buckkiller35
11-27-14, 20:09
They are legit.
See message #26 this thread. His box shows 844.
See message #26 this thread. His box shows 844.
Thank you !
Has anyone noticed an accuracy / velocity difference between the two different versions ? I mean one is marked like this...
30100 POWDER WC 732
And another like this ..
30101 POWDER PR 844
That's kind of interesting. I'd have to assume that they set the powder charge so that both yield a pretty similar velocity.
(wow. There's not much info out there on 732. All I could find was that it may have been used for frangible ammo at one point.)
I also looked for info on WC 732... and found just vague comments about it.
I assumed PR 844 is the WC 844, but that is nothing more than a common 844.
Markm were you able to chronograph any ?
I've never laid hands on any of it. It looks like good stuff, but I already load my own variants of 77 OTM, so buying some factory ammo is usually not a good use of limited funds for me.
Rob, could you do me a favor and see which powder is listed on your boxes ?
Mine was the WC 732 and I recorded slower velocities than yours....
CBC 77gr 5.56.......
16" V7 match Middie, Av. 2577, ES 60.
20" SS410 Wylde chamber .....Av. 2752, ES 75...
bfoosh006, with all due respect, I don't think you can draw any significant conclusions when using different barrels (yours and Robb's) on different days, etc.
But if you're going to try anyway, here is some information from me:
CBC Magtech 77gr OTM
average velocity - 2629
extreme spread - 121
standard deviation - 30
This is from 10 shots fired from a 16" AR Performance nitrided/Melonited barrel with 1:8 hybrid 5R rifling. It was about 65 to 70 degrees that day. The powder was "WC 732"
Joe Mamma
bfoosh006, with all due respect, I don't think you can draw any significant conclusions when using different barrels (yours and Robb's) on different days, etc.
This is SO true. I shot the same handload on the same gun back to back days and got a noteworthy difference in velocity a few weeks ago... like 30+ fps with a magnetospeed chronograph.
I agree completely. I was just going to see if there was a general trend with the WC 732.
It seems slightly odd ( to me at least ) that CBC would use two different powders for one specific load.
They probably scored a lot of 732. With Mil Ball powder, it's just a matter of dialing the charge weight to meet the velocity and pressure desired. I bet there'd be no noticeable difference between the two.
Just got 500rounds of this. Hopefully it fires well through my 18" Noveske
Just got 500rounds of this. Hopefully it fires well through my 18" Noveske
I have a Noveske reece and it is under MOA in mine.
Jwknutson17
02-19-15, 13:28
Anyone been paying a little more for the BH over these Magtech/CBC. Thinking about picking up a case or two at 580 shipped a peice. I can get the BH Mk262's for 790 to the door. Worth the extra dough? Or is everyone that's using this CBC stuff happy with it so far?
sevenhelmet
02-19-15, 13:30
CBC seems to be excellent ammo. I personally won't think that it's worth the extra dough for the BH Mk262 unless I see a side-by-side comparison with drastic differences. I'm slowly stocking up on the CBC as funds allow.
I've scooped up some of the CBC brass, and it seems that Magtech is getting the velocity without excessive pressure signs. CBC has the velocity and accuracy.... not sure what else you need to have.
Jwknutson17
02-19-15, 13:34
CBC seems to be excellent ammo. I personally won't think that it's worth the extra dough for the BH Mk262 unless I see a side-by-side comparison with drastic differences. I'm slowly stocking up on the CBC as funds allow.
I appreciate it. I'm slowing depleting the Black Hills out of my stock and if there is no drastic difference, I think Ill be picking up the CBC. I shoot a lot of these 77grs out of my 11.5's. Every bit of savings here and there adds up to 1000's of extra rounds or more training.
Jwknutson17
02-19-15, 13:35
I've scooped up some of the CBC brass, and it seems that Magtech is getting the velocity without excessive pressure signs. CBC has the velocity and accuracy.... not sure what else you need to have.
That's what I like to hear. Ordering as we speak. Appreciate it.
Does anyone know whose bullets are being used? Is it Nosler's or Sierra's?
Anyone been paying a little more for the BH over these Magtech/CBC. Thinking about picking up a case or two at 580 shipped a peice. I can get the BH Mk262's for 790 to the door. Worth the extra dough? Or is everyone that's using this CBC stuff happy with it so far?
MK12 Mod-H (Bison Armory 16" Recon) MagnetoSpeed chrono results:
Temp 47F
5rnd strings
CBC 77gr (WC732 powder)
Max 2702
Min 2668
Avg 2684
SD 12
BH 77gr TMK
Max 2692
Min 2658
Avg 2672
SD 13
IMI 77gr
Max 2711
Min 2673
Avg 2693
SD 15
CBC 62gr FMJ
Max 2967
Min 2918
Avg 2942
SD 22
Mod1 (18" CLE Douglas) results for comparison:
CBC 77gr
Max 2866
Min 2808
Avg 2829
SD 24
IMI 77gr
Max 2823
Min 2796
Avg 2803
SD 11
CBC groups
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f160/HDHNTER/CBC77gr_zpsa438e48e.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f160/HDHNTER/CBC77grOTM_zps360d0e45.jpg
Thermal doesn't allow for a super tight POA for shooting groups but still pretty damn good results with the CBC 77gr load.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f160/HDHNTER/77grCBCThermal_zps83d575c1.jpg
Jwknutson17
02-19-15, 15:03
That looks like a pretty darn good groupings from non hand loads. Ill take that any day. Thanks for posting that up, and putting in the work. I have no doubt that I will get similar results after reading the positive feedback on the CBC that's been posted here.
Welcome, the CBC 62gr FMJ load (no penetrator core to eat up your steel) is a stout performer as well & FAST, 2942FPS avg out of a 16" tube. Groups print half the size of M193/M855.
MK12 Mod-H (Bison Armory 16" Recon) MagnetoSpeed chrono results:
Temp 47F
5rnd strings
CBC 77gr (WC732 powder)
Max 2702
Min 2668
Avg 2684
SD 12
BH 77gr TMK
Max 2692
Min 2658
Avg 2672
SD 13
IMI 77gr
Max 2711
Min 2673
Avg 2693
SD 15
Mod1 (18" CLE Douglas) results for comparison:
CBC 77gr
Max 2866
Min 2808
Avg 2829
SD 24
IMI 77gr
Max 2823
Min 2796
Avg 2803
SD 11
You are measuring at the muzzle as opposed to 10-12ft away with a standard chrono... either way, that is cooking for a heavy .22 cal bullet.
jerrysimons
02-20-15, 11:18
now that you bought some where did you find $580 shipped?
now that you bought some where did you find $580 shipped?
Check the ehere can i get it thread
Jwknutson17
02-20-15, 13:34
Arms unlimited has a bunch. Saw it up on gunbroker that they had 39 cases or so. http://www.armsunlimited.com/Magtech-CBC-556x45-MK262-77-gr-Sierra-Open-Tip-p/556c-otm-case.htm
Arms unlimited has a bunch. Saw it up on gunbroker that they had 39 cases or so. http://www.armsunlimited.com/Magtech-CBC-556x45-MK262-77-gr-Sierra-Open-Tip-p/556c-otm-case.htm
Good deal... just ordered a case!
And wow! In that short of time it has already shipped!
No, not just the order confirmation- I have a tracking number already for UPS!
Mine just arrived today from Arms Unlimited so I'm wondering if the same powder was used as the other 200 rds. I have sitting in the safe. I'll look and post back.
Powder is the same WC 732 but the case lot I received today was produced in 2013
Thanks for the great info on this round. Just ordered a case from Arms Unlimited as it looks to be a great deal. I'm anxious to see how well it performs.
Any one see this stuff available anywhere?
lahunter57
03-24-15, 16:07
Any one see this stuff available anywhere?
Lucky gunner had some last time I checked. 90 cents a round through, keep a lookout at Palmetto. I went against my golden rule of not ordering from them and got some. My two transactions went off without a hitch. My trust in them may be slightly restored.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
sevenhelmet
03-24-15, 16:09
PSA had some last week, but now they are out of stock. Ammo to go has some, but it is crazy expensive.
I'm glad I stocked up, looks like the market is bare for the time being.
Any one see this stuff available anywhere?
Pretty much all 5.56 ammo coming out of Magtech is put on hold till November due to a large foreign military contract.
C4
sevenhelmet
03-25-15, 19:29
Pretty much all 5.56 ammo coming out of Magtech is put on hold till November due to a large foreign military contract.
C4
Man, the timing on this sucks... first the M855 ban proposal, and now this- ammo prices going up just before an election year.
Glad I bought some while I could.
Pretty much all 5.56 ammo coming out of Magtech is put on hold till November due to a large foreign military contract.
C4
Wow, good to know. I'm glad I jumped on as much of this stuff as I did.
PSA showed no more stock after my last order with them, I am happy I received all that I ordered and ordered the ridiculous amount I did. I was unsure if they just pulled off of the site to then reintroduce it days later at a higher price like they did with other ammo I have purchased from them. So far its still not back.
It was a good run while it lasted
Rayrevolver
04-04-15, 07:45
CBC 77 showing back in stock. IMI Razor 77 also in stock at Wideners.
I just chrono'd some CBC I had from when G&R had it in stock as well as some FGMM .223 77g SMK out of my 16" BCM SS.
Sampling 10 rounds each:
CBC mk262 was an avg of 2687fps with a standard deviation of 11
FGMM 77g SMK .223 was an avg of 2394 with a standard deviation of 13
And for fun:
Some XM-193 I had ran an avg of 3005fps with an S-D of 35 using only 5 rounds in the series.
So I'm on the CBC train, and will also try to get my hands on some Razor 77 to compare soon.
Rolls-Royce
04-14-15, 23:10
Interesting that you should mention that, kevN. I chrono'ed the CBC Mk262 on my Magnetospeed V3 last Wednesday out of my Del-Ton 16" M4gery (1:7 twist) upper. A 5-round string gave me an average of 2679 fps with an SD of 19.5. A 10-round string might have given me numbers a little closer to yours.
I got an average of 3048 fps and an SD of 10 with 5 rounds of XM193 (LC 10 headstamp) from my rig.
Recently got 250 rounds (5 boxes) from Palmetto with free shipping for just under $150. Mine is the WC 732 powder. Might get a chance to try it out this weekend.
Interesting that you should mention that, kevN. I chrono'ed the CBC Mk262 on my Magnetospeed V3 last Wednesday out of my Del-Ton 16" M4gery (1:7 twist) upper. A 5-round string gave me an average of 2679 fps with an SD of 19.5. A 10-round string might have given me numbers a little closer to yours.
I got an average of 3048 fps and an SD of 10 with 5 rounds of XM193 (LC 10 headstamp) from my rig.
The increase in N will lower the SD, so it is most likely similar.
I bought a case of the CBC 77gr to try out. Seems like good stuff.
This is from today.
BCM 14.5" CHF mid upper (EAG upper).
Leupold 1.5-5X on 5X
ALG QMS trigger
This was fired at 200 yards, the black is 2moa, I was doing good til I poked that hole low/right.:sad:
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab76/sammuse/ARs/06-08%20BCM%20CBC%2077gr%20200yd_zpsh9xampfi.jpg
The gun..
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab76/sammuse/ARs/IMG_0330_zpsjko1ihmi.jpg
I was doing good til I poked that hole low/right.:sad:
that little guy, don't worry about that little guy. :D
I need to shoot more of that 77gr at 200 yards to see what I can get.
Sparky5019
06-13-15, 07:39
Handloading time.
Lol. That'll require a 2nd job and maybe a 3rd to get setup. ROFLMAO!
Jwknutson17
06-13-15, 11:13
I bought a case of the CBC 77gr to try out. Seems like good stuff.
This is from today.
BCM 14.5" CHF mid upper (EAG upper).
Leupold 1.5-5X on 5X
ALG QMS trigger
This was fired at 200 yards, the black is 2moa, I was doing good til I poked that hole low/right.:sad:
Good work. I do like your Ear plug storage innovative location on the SL stock. :cool: Don't worry about that low right one. Had nothing to do with you. Change in Wind, humidity and temp, etc caused that one. Don't short change yourself. ;)
Looks like Arms Unlimited has it back up for $580 shipped a case. http://www.armsunlimited.com/Magtech-CBC-556x45-MK262-77-gr-Sierra-Open-Tip-p/556c-otm-case.htm
My second case arrived yesterday so I am GTG for awhile.
OK, I drank the Cool Aid. Bought 250 rounds from Palmetto. Only $12 shipping. The more info blurb on the 77 CBC says that they also make the 40BONB, a bonded HP. I tried ammo seek and the Palmetto site and turned up nothing. Anyone know about this or tried it??
I will be shooting a 1:8 20 inch Wylde chamber Lothar Walther barrel at 1,000 yards and report back!
PS Is this ammo and brass made in the Brazilian plant, Germany or Czech? I assume Brazil.
sevenhelmet
06-13-15, 17:13
Brazil.
Shot a bunch of it over the weekend in two rifles.
Rifle one: BCM 16" reece SS barrel topped with Zeiss 2-10x 42mm conquest scope. Geissle SSA-E trigger
Rifle two: Noveske 16" reece, chrome lined barrel topped with Bushnell Tactical Elite 1-6.5x 24mm scope. Geissle SD-3g trigger
wind was from right to left variable from 3-5 gusting to 10mph.
Both rifles at 100 yards were both sub moa. At 200 the wind starts to affect the shots a little and it opened up to right at moa. The BCM shooting just a tad tighter now.
Most shooting done at 300 yards. 10 shot groups for the BCM was right around 3 1/2 inches (vertical stringing) and 10 shot groups with the Noveske at 4". Wind definitely having an effect at this range. The extra scope and finer trigger on the BCM also helping.
The ammo is very consistent and shot very well with no issues to either rifle. For the cost this is a definite buy!
How does this compare to SSA's 77gr load?
The price is similar...
Molon wrote it up here.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/406469_Ammunition_review___HEAVY_OTMs.html
Scroll about 2/3rds of the way down the extensive series of ammo tests. (Thank you Molon!).
It's fast, Over 2800 fps from a 20 inch. Accuracy between 1.6 and 2 inches.
The SSA 308/175 grain is also very fast for a 308. I have had light primer strikes with SSA in both 556 and 308, maybe three times over two years and about 400 oruns fired both calibers. OK for competition but not self defense.
Looks like they use a ball powder.
My order of 250 rounds of CBC 77 grain OTM arrived today.
Lot: CBC 018/14
Powder: WC 732 L-2465/13
No apparent damage to any of the boxes or ctgs.
My order of 2,000 won't arrive until Monday. :(
sevenhelmet
06-24-15, 11:08
Going to shoot some this weekend. I'll post targets if I don't totally totally embarrass myself.
I shot 50 rounds today.
85-93 degrees F. Headwind mostly at 100-200 yds but gusting 1/4 from left to right.
20 inch long Lothar Walther 1:8 twist barrel. Wylde chamber. Syrac Gen 2 gas block. Colt upper, Geissle two stage trigger, ACS stock, billet lower receiver, Bravo Company Key mod 13 forearm, H buffer. Shepard 3 x 10 x 40 scope. Sure fire brake and SOCOM suppressor. Picture from this winter before I mounted scope. Rifle normally carries a night scope so this set up is strictly a backup day time scope Ive had laying around for 20 years.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/atillman/Rifles/Leftside_zpsd7610585.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/atillman/media/Rifles/Leftside_zpsd7610585.jpg.html)
Chronographed three strings. First was left on cement shooting bench prior to firing and averaged 2941 fps!
I switched to another rifle to let it cool down and next two strings were 2877 fps and 2878 fps. ES 2858 - 2907.
I checked my chronograph with Federal AE, IMI M855 and relaod of Nosler 64 grain bonded solid base, and it was not out of normal range for a hot day. This lot of CBC ammo is hot!
Gas block needed to be opened up from 9 clicks to 11 for bolt to lock back. (11 is what I normally use without a suppressor, 9 with). I had two short stroke, one of which damaged brass before finding correct gas port.
5-6 shot groups at 100 yds.
First group (cold barrel) 1 1/4 " vertical x 1 inch horizontal.
Second group 1 " V x 1/2 H.
Third 3/4 " V x 1/4 " H.
OK, it was not a 10 shot group but I was happy.
I moved to 1000 yd gong range with steel targets from 12-18 inches round and 24 inches square at 700, 900 and 1000.
Wind and mirage averaged about 1 MOA left to right. The Shepard is a hunting scope with 18 inch equivilent round stadia at 200-1000. the 77's were going so fast they shot about 1.5 - 2 MOA higher than the stadia lines which were designed for 380 inches drop at 1000 (308 match ammo). I had to take a 6 oclock hold from 400 yds out to keep on the steel. Not a great sight picture. This is not a target scope. But a dandy tactical scope with the right ammo. I checked my +/- drop figures from actual 400, 700, 900 and 1,000 yds against the G7 .190 (Litz) on JBM software and it corresponds very closely to recorded elevation adjustments.
I captured a good group of 6 hits at 700 yds that was just 5 " V x 3 " H. But it was 15 inches high and all hits into the target frame above the 24 inch square plate.
I got another complete group (all 5 shots) at 900 yds. 5" V x 3 1/2 Horizontal. I took a 6 o'clock hold and hit 13 inches high and 6 inches to right of center. I was so concerned w elevation I did not scan the wind at three places like I normally would. Could have used a Leuplold or Nightforce at this range.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/atillman/Bullets/900%20yd%20target_zpshwaixd4d.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/atillman/media/Bullets/900%20yd%20target_zpshwaixd4d.jpg.html)
I was getting dialed in and tried the 24 inch square steel at 1000 which is normally not that hard to hit (with a 308) and got only two of five on at about 2 o'clock high. Hits were 20 inches above point of aim and 11 inches right of center. I heard three hits so may have missed where the third went but saw dirt fly to right at about same elevation on the misses. Problem w 556 at long range is you can barely see impact on steel even with a 60 X spotting scope. Even up close on a freshly pained plate you have to look closely to find hits. Bullet splatter below target often makes you think you are shooting low.
With a more appropriate scope I think the CBC 77grain can keep within 1 MOA with a good rifle out to 1000 yards. Pretty amazing performance from such reasonably priced ammo. At 93 degrees it is right at speed of sound at 1,000 yards.
Glad I drank the cool aid. And thanks to you guys. I would not have known about this ammo without checking in here from time to tome and would not have purchased any without your previous posts.
Will post two photos of 700 and 900 yd target when I get time.
My order of 2,000 arrived today. ;) Won't get to the range until Wednesday though.
Lot: CBC 024/15
Powder: WC 732 L-2490/14
Got to the range today and the CBC stuff did pretty good. I only had time to go through 20 rounds at 100 yards. I ended up shooting 5 rounds groups, and averaged 0.852 MOA across all 4. This was done at one of the Dept. of Conservation ranges, so I was lucky no one zinged a wayward 9mm round into any of my targets.
The shitty part is that yours truly ended up throwing a shot on one which opened that group over 1 MOA. Overall they were as follows...
1. 0.748 MOA
2. 0.764 MOA
3. 1.348 MOA Ugh.
4. 0.551 MOA
Cherry picked group...;)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v340/roguedemon/0.551%20MOA_zpscry45e1u.jpg
Wow, this stuff sure appears to be good based on peoples posts here. Without handloading or spending way more money, is this probably my best bet when shooting the 18" SPRish and 20" DMRish that I'm assembling? Both are 1/8, Wylde chamber on the 18" (Black Hole Weaponry), on the 20" LaRue Stealth it says 5.56 (but they claim 1/2MOA is common).
Wow, this stuff sure appears to be good based on peoples posts here. Without handloading or spending way more money, is this probably my best bet when shooting the 18" SPRish and 20" DMRish that I'm assembling? Both are 1/8, Wylde chamber on the 18" (Black Hole Weaponry), on the 20" LaRue Stealth it says 5.56 (but they claim 1/2MOA is common).
Worth a shot but...you will hear this quite a bit.
"Every barrel is a law unto itself". Unfortunately this is quite true. Buy a small batch and give it a shot.
Even if neither of those guns like it, I'm sure something I have will. I've read that terminal performance is pretty good, so I could keep it around for SHTF/HD, I'm sure something I own will like it. From what I'm seeing there's a pretty good chance it'll work well in 1/9 even, so I could use it in my SU16 if all else fails (nice and light if you have to carry it a bunch).
Considering its at 5.56 pressures with sealed bullets and primers...which are also staked, I'd say the accuracy is exemplary.
I understand how sealing/crimping the bullet can have detrimental effects on accuracy but I'm curious as to how staking the primer would do anything.
Is this stuff going to lead to a gun that works well on Federal XM193 (Lake City) be overgassed?
Junkie,
I had to open up the gas port on my rifle to get the bolt to lock back from a single shot magazine test. I have an adjustable Syrac 2 block and normally run 9 clicks suppressed and 11 without can. CBC functions fine at either but wont lock back, so I opened it up one, then two more clicks. Most ammo functions between 9-11. If anything the CBC will probably be slightly under gassed. Which is weird given its very high muzzle velocity. I have a Wylde chamber however, and that may explain both phenomenon. I also use an H buffer in a 20 inch barrel with rifle length gas port and a carbine stock extension. If your rifle is not built exactly the same, who knows?
I understand how sealing/crimping the bullet can have detrimental effects on accuracy but I'm curious as to how staking the primer would do anything.
Is this stuff going to lead to a gun that works well on Federal XM193 (Lake City) be overgassed?
It wouldn't, its just a feature not normally found in ammunition that is capable of the level of precision that the CBC stuff has demonstrated. The combination of features makes it an ideal self defense round, and its precision makes it an ideal target round. Its not often those two go hand in hand.
I don't understand what you're asking in the 2nd part of your question.
The second part was about pressures. This throws a heavy bullet relatively fast, so I was thinking it would likely function well with a smaller gas port than XM193. 556x45 says it needs a larger gas port, though, which is surprising to me.
This is a WAG, but perhaps it has something to do with the bullet weight and pressure curve?
I would not worry about the gas port setting with the 77 grain CBC. I was trying to get by on the minimum possible gas setting. A fixed port will probably have more gas than I was using.
Wow, this stuff sure appears to be good based on peoples posts here. Without handloading or spending way more money, is this probably my best bet when shooting the 18" SPRish and 20" DMRish that I'm assembling? Both are 1/8, Wylde chamber on the 18" (Black Hole Weaponry), on the 20" LaRue Stealth it says 5.56 (but they claim 1/2MOA is common).
Eh. IIRC they're tunnel firing 3 round groups and are happy when a rifle is sub MOA shooting Federal Gold Medal. I have mixed feelings about this...
Any suggestions on where to buy a small quantity (maybe 100 or so) before I buy a case?
Any suggestions on where to buy a small quantity (maybe 100 or so) before I buy a case?
Try Palmetto Armory
TexasAggie2005
07-22-15, 14:02
Any suggestions on where to buy a small quantity (maybe 100 or so) before I buy a case?
Primary Arms has 50rd boxes in stock. (https://www.primaryarms.com/Magtech_CBC_5_56NATO_77gr_Open_Tip_Match_Box_p/mtcbc20181.htm)
I got a chance to shoot at 1,000 yards this week at Horse Ridge on the "Gong," (steel target) range.
My othar Walther barrel is 1:8 twist and 20 inches on a billet lower and Colt upper with BCM key mod forend. It is an accurate rifle, 3/4 inch at 100 yards, with a sporting rifle scope. 3 x 10 Shepard. Barrel is a tad less than 3 pounds, SOPMOD profile. Shooting with Surefire SOCOM suppressor I doped wind at 2 MOA full deflection Right to Left and held at 6 oclock on 24 inch square gong with 2 inch low zero at 100. (Shepard has reticle for 762 match ammo at 380 inches drop). the 77 CBC is crazy fast. third time Ive tried it now at long range, and chrono is very consistent about 2870 fps.
I shot a ten round group of 20 inches square with six going into 15 vertical by eight horizontal. For sa medium weight barrel firing rapid fire to get consistant windage, with an essentially sporter/tactical scope, this is just great ammo. I ordered another 1,000 rounds. PSA is least expensive place to buy it and is the go to place for me. No damage to any ammo I recieved. IT was very carefully packaged with dense foam spacers to take up any slack in packaging.
I got a chance to shoot at 1,000 yards this week at Horse Ridge on the "Gong," (steel target) range.
My othar Walther barrel is 1:8 twist and 20 inches on a billet lower and Colt upper with BCM key mod forend. It is an accurate rifle, 3/4 inch at 100 yards, with a sporting rifle scope. 3 x 10 Shepard. Barrel is a tad less than 3 pounds, SOPMOD profile. Shooting with Surefire SOCOM suppressor I doped wind at 2 MOA full deflection Right to Left and held at 6 oclock on 24 inch square gong with 2 inch low zero at 100. (Shepard has reticle for 762 match ammo at 380 inches drop). the 77 CBC is crazy fast. third time Ive tried it now at long range, and chrono is very consistent about 2870 fps.
I shot a ten round group of 20 inches square with six going into 15 vertical by eight horizontal. For sa medium weight barrel firing rapid fire to get consistant windage, with an essentially sporter/tactical scope, this is just great ammo. I ordered another 1,000 rounds. PSA is least expensive place to buy it and is the go to place for me. No damage to any ammo I recieved. IT was very carefully packaged with dense foam spacers to take up any slack in packaging.
PSA does not pack those 1k Cases (Magtech does). They also are not the cheapest place to buy it (we are when you figure in shipping).
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CBC556C
C4
Yep, you are $33 less expensive to my zipcode.
If it matters, I have ordered cases of this from PSA and G&R. I received it within days from G&R, and has taken from 1-2 weeks from PSA.
jerrysimons
08-19-15, 13:55
Does this stuff actually have sealed case mouths?
jerrysimons
08-19-15, 21:53
It sure does.
Sweet, thank you.
jerrysimons
08-19-15, 21:56
'odd that Black Hills 556 77r OTM does not have sealed case mouth while IMI Razor and the CBC m262m1 clones do.
neomastiff
08-20-15, 07:42
I cancelled an order at Arms Unlimited after my order sat in "processing" with no return email or phone call. After two weeks I gave up and ordered from GandR. Very fast shipping and smooth transaction - all in less than a week!
I cancelled an order at Arms Unlimited after my order sat in "processing" with no return email or phone call. After two weeks I gave up and ordered from GandR. Very fast shipping and smooth transaction - all in less than a week!
Thank you for your business!
C4
'odd that Black Hills 556 77r OTM does not have sealed case mouth while IMI Razor and the CBC m262m1 clones do.
The US mil-spec for genuine MK262 Mod 1 does not call for case-mouth sealant.
Some chronograph results from a Magnetospeed Sporter. Twenty rounds total, all from an 18" Bartlien SPR barrel. Temperature was 77 F with 46% humidity, and barometer was at 29.5" at an altitude of 750'.
Average = 2754 FPS
High = 2816 FPS
Low = 2705 FPS
Standard Deviation = 32 FPS
Extreme Spread = 111 FPS
Average of every recorded group I've fired hovers about 0.8 MOA.
TexasAggie2005
08-27-15, 08:26
How would y'all feel about using this ammo for hunting white tail deer, from say, 200yds and in?
How would y'all feel about using this ammo for hunting white tail deer, from say, 200yds and in?
I think you would be fine.
C4
HP7178,
thanks for sharing chrono results.
My 20 inch 1:8 Lothar Walther is substantially faster at 2870 fps average over several chrono sessions. It has been very consistent.
I have a Wylde chamber, and I wonder if the shorter throat is giving me such high velocity???
Nothing at all wrong with 2750 fps from an 18 inch. Id be very happy with that as a reloader.
thanks for posting.
How would y'all feel about using this ammo for hunting white tail deer, from say, 200yds and in?
I have taken whitetail with most of the popular loadings in 55.6 and I just use this now. Works wonderfully with proper placement.
TexasAggie2005
08-27-15, 21:07
I have taken whitetail with most of the popular loadings in 55.6 and I just use this now. Works wonderfully with proper placement.
Awesome, thanks for the 1st hand report.
HP7178,
thanks for sharing chrono results.
My 20 inch 1:8 Lothar Walther is substantially faster at 2870 fps average over several chrono sessions. It has been very consistent.
I have a Wylde chamber, and I wonder if the shorter throat is giving me such high velocity???
Nothing at all wrong with 2750 fps from an 18 inch. Id be very happy with that as a reloader.
thanks for posting.
120 FPS for the two inch difference seems about equal to me. I don't think I'd consider that substantial. My chamber is the 556 CLE Match, which is different than the Wylde, but is shorter in the throat if I remember right from the chamber drawings I've seen.
HP,
I chronographed previously at 85-100 degrees but got a chance a few days ago to try ammo at 57 degrees. Ammo was probably cooler than that as it came out of ammo locker and well inisulated room. Still clocking about 2870 fps. Not a severe test but I had thought in back of my mind some of velocity must be the warm (for me) weather. Apparently not!
I also got a chance to shoot it at 500 yds using a target scope, and it was right on JBM (Litz) data. 9.25 MOA elevation from 100 yd zero. 1,000 yd range was closed for a black powder shoot so I could not test farther than 500. Will take it with 4-16x50 Vortex FFP scope out to 1000 next week and report back.
broberts001
09-13-15, 18:27
Has anyone done any gel tests?
-Bryan
Actual 1,000 yard DOPE for 77 grain CBC from 20 inch barrel at 50 degrees F. 2834 fps average.
100 yards 0.0
200 1.25
300 3.25
400 6.0 – 7.0
500 9.75
600 12.5 – 13.0
700 No hits
800 23.0
900 30.25
1,000 37.0
2 MOA cross wind. 19 inch vertical x 12 inch horizontal for six shots at 1,000. 1.55 MOA average. Ive captured four good groups at 1000 now and the average is about 1.6 MOA vertical and 0.9 horizontal. 6-10 shot groups.
Test results closely match the JBM prediction using G7 (Litz) of .190 and 2.75 inch scope height at my altitude. My range card was for this summers average of 2870 fps at 85 degrees F. I was running low at 600 and switched to a range card I had made for 2850 at 65 degrees F and that worked OK out to 1,000. I measured center of groups above or below center of gongs and came up with the fairly precise results shown.
Changing the temperature from 65 degrees to 50 F actual made 1 MOA difference at 1,000 yards and brought dope within 1/2 MOA or less!
Targets were 12-16 inch plates at 100-700 and 24 inches square at 800-1000.
Has anyone done any gel tests?
-Bryan
The Sierra MK bullet? Yes.
C4
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/17/421b7c509406dce33a6a56fc1a3bfd4c.jpg
http://www.magtechammunition.com/products/view-product?id=75
Does anyone know if this is the same stuff?
broberts001
09-17-15, 18:06
Well, I order a case of the CBC 77OTM from Arms Unlimited and that is what they sent me.
Here is the box top:
http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae337/broberts001/Guns/2_zpswfw1rnwk.jpg
From what I can tell, from the outer appearance, it is the same ammo. However, I have not shot any.
-Bryan
PSA does not pack those 1k Cases (Magtech does). They also are not the cheapest place to buy it (we are when you figure in shipping).
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CBC556C
C4
You say the shipping is $10 flat rate, it says the same on the website, but when I add a case to the cart and go to check out, it says I'm going to be charged $20 for processing and handling. Why?
I don't reload so have to buy my ammo. This is the only load to get ~1 MOA out to 500 yards out of my DD MK18 10.3" upper. That upper hates everything else for some reason. Working backwards from my comeups it seems to be flying at ~2440 fps. 500 yds is +14 MOA from my 100 yd zero. Does this sound about right?
I'd like to buy some more for another KD shoot but not 1000 rounds.
Just received 2 cases from Arms Unlimited. pretty good deal with the low price and free shipping. There was no extra packaging like others have reported, but everything arrived just fine.
jerrysimons
10-11-15, 09:16
FYI, the 50rd boxes this stuff comes packaged in can be packed by the case (1000rds/20 boxes) into a standard 50cal ammo can. I can not say the same for the 20rd boxes XM193 is packaged in, the best I can do there is 960rds into the 50cal can, two boxes shy of a case. This CBC is great ammo to stash, sealed everywhere, staked primers, 556 pressure, about 1.25moa accurate in aggregate. 'Cannot be beat for the price.
On the PSA site it states that this round now uses the Matech 40BONB bonded bullet instead of the Sierra match king bullet .
sevenhelmet
10-12-15, 09:33
Well, I order a case of the CBC 77OTM from Arms Unlimited and that is what they sent me.
Here is the box top:
http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae337/broberts001/Guns/2_zpswfw1rnwk.jpg
From what I can tell, from the outer appearance, it is the same ammo. However, I have not shot any.
-Bryan
But... but the one on the left says "sniper"... It can't possibly be the same ammo!
Seriously: did they have to do that? The yellow box was fine.
broberts001
10-12-15, 09:41
I prefer the simple gold and white box but it seems to all be the same :)
-Bryan
sevenhelmet
10-12-15, 10:15
I just looked on Ammoseek for the heck of it... this stuff is suddenly hard to find! Anyone know why?
Glad I bought some while it was cheap and plentiful.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/17/421b7c509406dce33a6a56fc1a3bfd4c.jpg
http://www.magtechammunition.com/products/view-product?id=75
Does anyone know if this is the same stuff?
Same.
C4
You say the shipping is $10 flat rate, it says the same on the website, but when I add a case to the cart and go to check out, it says I'm going to be charged $20 for processing and handling. Why?
$10 is the flat rate for most things. Firearms, ammo, etc all have an additional fee as it costs MORE than $10 dollars to ship those items. ;-)
C4
I just looked on Ammoseek for the heck of it... this stuff is suddenly hard to find! Anyone know why?
Glad I bought some while it was cheap and plentiful.
It is really good ammo and word is spreading.
C4
It is really good ammo and word is spreading.
C4
After a good amount of research this is what I've learned, especially for the price!
Ordered 1 case from you this weekend, will hopefully be here by next weekend!
$10 is the flat rate for most things. Firearms, ammo, etc all have an additional fee as it costs MORE than $10 dollars to ship those items. ;-)
C4
I see, I misunderstood when I read "$10 additional shipping" for the cbc 77gr on your site, I took that to mean $10 total for the shipping, but it's actually $10 on top of the $10 flat rate.
On the PSA site it states that this round now uses the Matech 40BONB bonded bullet instead of the Sierra match king bullet .
I'm fairly sure that's a typo. PSA is just being sloppy with cutting and pasting descriptions of different products.
Joe Mamma
XD40Colorado
10-13-15, 15:25
I don't get the hype of the MK262 - LE.ATK.COM Wound Ballistic site shows that in Denim-covered gel, the 77gr SMK only penetrates to 7" - last time I checked, the FBI / IWBA minimum was 12". What's so special about it? Anyone have any denim gel tests of the MK262?
Why is denim testing your go-to? Are you shooting a lot of winter clothed things?
XD40Colorado
10-13-15, 19:20
Why is denim testing your go-to? Are you shooting a lot of winter clothed things?
Are you shooting a lot of naked home invaders?
Pretty sure they'll be clothed, likely in a jacket or a hoodie of some kind.
Breacher 217
10-20-15, 13:23
Other than Canadians do people still wear denim coats?
Other than Canadians do people still wear denim coats?
Yes they do. Carhartt's Duck fabric is very similar, and more widely worn though.
Howdy,
Other than Canadians do people still wear denim coats?
Yes, in fact both of the jackets I wear while doing home invasions are denim.
Denim is well know for its HP clogging abilities and I figure that if I get shot while wearing a denim jacket the bullet will NOT expand and will pass through my body without doing any real damage.
HTH
Paul
XD40Colorado
10-24-15, 14:01
Howdy,
Yes, in fact both of the jackets I wear while doing home invasions are denim.
Denim is well know for its HP clogging abilities and I figure that if I get shot while wearing a denim jacket the bullet will NOT expand and will pass through my body without doing any real damage.
HTH
Paul
TOTALLY missing the point Paul. The point is, look at the terminal ballistics of the 77gr SMK. Through denim, PENETRATES LESS THAN 8"! Last I recall, FBI recommended TWELVE INCHES.....
Is there much difference in the 'Razor' vs. the Magtech stuff. Seems they are both trying to my exact duplicates of the Black Hills ammo for nearly half the cost. Has anyone compare the velocity and groups of these two since they are very close in price?
I normally handload but for the cost of this stuff I am thinking of getting a case for when I am lazy and don't feel like chucking the press all day long.
Has anyone compared the velocity and groups of these two since they are very close in price?
IMI “Razor Core” 77 Grain OTM, LR, Mod 1
https://app.box.com/shared/static/uuus8eim0wigx92dcvjb1huzxw0lcn50.jpg
This load is topped with a 77 grain OTM bullet with a cannelure. The case mouth is sealed and the primers are crimped and sealed. When chronographed from the 20” Colt barrel, the load had a muzzle velocity of 2866 FPS with a standard deviation of 21 FPS.
A 10-shot group group fired off the bench from my Lothar-Walther barreled AR-15 at a distance of 100 yards had an extreme spread of 0.95”.
https://app.box.com/shared/static/q0vhhskbdvy4fa6cslonv7zdgbpygjv6.jpg
….
Thank you sir for the prompt response.
Accuracy of each seems reasonably comparable. I'm more concerned with accuracy potential than max velocity. I'm wanting to try each in a 16" Lilja made barrel.
Glockman1968
10-28-15, 12:52
A mean radius of .27 ??!!!
Whoa!
Are you shooting a lot of naked home invaders?
Pretty sure they'll be clothed, likely in a jacket or a hoodie of some kind.
My point was that you more than likely have not and never will. Buy ammo for the type of shooting you actually do, not some imagined scenario.
The effects of the projectile on the target is insignificant with ones ability to properly deploy a weapon and place accurate shots on same.
Howdy,
I started buying some of this recently as SHTF/HD ammo. Hopefully it is a good choice for that purpose compared to M193 or similar.
It's probably only 10 times better than M193 at everything. ;)
I cannot think of any .223/5.56 round that would be worse than M193 for SD/HD. Maybe some that are just as bad, but none that are worse.
Heck, IMO M193 doesn't even qualify as decent plinking ammo unless you have an old 1-12" or 1-14" twist barrel.
Paul
...look at the terminal ballistics of the 77gr SMK. Through denim, PENETRATES LESS THAN 8"! Last I recall, FBI recommended TWELVE INCHES.....
It would be reasonable to expect an assailant to be wearing a t-shirt and overshirt of some kind. Perhaps a light coat in cool weather. And from what you're saying, this load may give inadequate penetration in a target that is wearing some clothing.
Anyone else have any such concerns about this load for defensive use?
Howdy XD40
TOTALLY missing the point Paul. The point is, look at the terminal ballistics of the 77gr SMK. Through denim, PENETRATES LESS THAN 8"! Last I recall, FBI recommended TWELVE INCHES.....
Not at all, but you did miss my sarcasm.
I do agree that 8" of penetration isn't enough for SD or HD. 8" might be enough for sex but not for trying to stop someone that's trying to kill you.
As I've posted before, I want my bullet to exit whatever I'm shooting whither it's a deer or a BG.
Paul
Any update on who has this stuff in stock? Went to order a case from g and r and they are out. Wideners has imi, but I was wanting to support grant.
I only ordered 100 rounds of it to try. I got two boxes of CBC from Palmetto Armory.
I only ordered 100 rounds of it to try. I got two boxes of CBC from Palmetto Armory.
Looks like all they have in stock currently is the SSA stuff.
Really hope some of this Is avaible in a few weeks!
Looks like the stuff to go with, i am wanting to stock up on some good ammo!
XD40Colorado
12-23-15, 07:30
This round is made for match shooting. Inconsistent behavior in tissue. No barrier capability.
I don't get it. Why not go with something else easily available like federal fusion/Speer gold dot, Barnes tsx, etc?
No barrier capability.
While it’s certainly not a “blind to barriers” projectile, the penetration of the 77 grain Sierra MatchKing shot through auto safety glass is on par with M855.
ArmsUnlimited
12-25-15, 13:15
The Magtech MK262 won't be available again until around February from what I am told
Any ETA on more of this stuff? I know it's an old thread but I did search.
Any ETA on more of this stuff? I know it's an old thread but I did search.
1st week in October we are told.
C4
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I had given up on buying this stuff except by the case. I had switched over to the ADI 69 grain bthp and seen similar but not quite as consistent performance. The ADI stuff is normally stocked at Cabela's for about $12.99 /20. ADI is on sale this week for $11.04 / 20.
Sent from my QTAIR7 using Tapatalk
I might have to try some of that stuff if this doesn't show up for a decent price soon. http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/ammunition/rifle-ammunition%7C/pc/104792580/c/104691780/sc/104532480/australian-outback-223-remington-reg-rifle-ammunition/2009236.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Frifle-ammunition%2F_%2FN-1100190%2B4294759021%2FNe-4294759021%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104532480%3FWTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU is what you mean?
Yes, the 69gr stuff. I snagged another 200 rounds when it was on sale.
Sent from my QTAIR7 using Tapatalk
In stock....
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CBC556C
SGAmmo has Magtech OTM 77gr hollowpoints. Any idea how they compare?
The CBC/Magtech averages 1.5 MOA to 400 yds in 3 of my guns (which is furthest I've been able to shoot lately).
This for 5 shots. It's common for me to group 3/4 rds in or under MOA with 1 or 2 rds blowing the group.
I might use it next weekend out to 500 yards with a 20" Colt & 18" Faxon. It shot MOA out of my 10.3" DD out to 400. I'm shooting 3 position against a clock with only a sling. YMMV!
Here's example of one or two rds. blowing a good group;
This is two, separate 5 shot strings, benched from 100 yds. I was holding center of head at neckline (for whatever reason I tend to shoot tighter groups shooting 'Center of Mass" than at a fixed point- too many years of USPSA/NRA Action Pistol I suppose).
The 2, high(er) left rds. were first shot(s) from open bolt dropped on loaded mag.
At this point I'm uncertain if this is an ammo, or gun issue.
https://i.imgur.com/l7tq6hR.jpg?2
Got an awesome black friday sale going on for this ammo!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/CBC-556X45-77gr-OTM-1000rds_p_772.html
C4
@c4IGrant- how different is that from the CBC Magtech in the gold box loaded with WC732?
is there an M4carbine code ;) ?
DESCRIPTION:
Caliber: 5.56X45 NATO - Sierra 77 grain Match King Open Tip Match
Preferred Combat Ammunition for USSOCOM Operations
SPECIFICATIONS:
Sierra 77 grain Match King, Open Tip Match Bullet
Pressure per NATO/ MOPI Specs
Cannelured Bullet, Staked and Sealed Primers
Flash Suppressant Powder for Low Flash Signature
Waterproofed per NATO/MOPI Specs
Excellent Accuracy. Sub MOA Capable
Excellent Terminal Ballistic Performance
BALLISTICS:
Muzzle Velocity (FPS): 2,789
Muzzle Energy (Ft. Lbs.): 1,330
Test Barrel Length: 20.00 inches
@c4IGrant- how different is that from the CBC Magtech in the gold box loaded with WC732?
is there an M4carbine code ;) ?
DESCRIPTION:
Caliber: 5.56X45 NATO - Sierra 77 grain Match King Open Tip Match
Preferred Combat Ammunition for USSOCOM Operations
SPECIFICATIONS:
Sierra 77 grain Match King, Open Tip Match Bullet
Pressure per NATO/ MOPI Specs
Cannelured Bullet, Staked and Sealed Primers
Flash Suppressant Powder for Low Flash Signature
Waterproofed per NATO/MOPI Specs
Excellent Accuracy. Sub MOA Capable
Excellent Terminal Ballistic Performance
BALLISTICS:
Muzzle Velocity (FPS): 2,789
Muzzle Energy (Ft. Lbs.): 1,330
Test Barrel Length: 20.00 inches
Same. No on any coupon code (as it is at our cost)!
C4
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Spin Drift
11-21-17, 19:41
Got an awesome black friday sale going on for this ammo!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/CBC-556X45-77gr-OTM-1000rds_p_772.html
C4
That is a SMOKING deal.
Basically 1/2 the price of BH...
A piece of steel at 400 yards will never know the difference.
That is a SMOKING deal.
Basically 1/2 the price of BH...
A piece of steel at 400 yards will never know the difference.
Yes it is!
C4
Wow, that is $60 less than what I paid for my case from SGAmmo (dropped to $550 on SGAmmo now). This stuff still shoots really well imo for over the counter VERY affordable ammo. Not quite as good as the now extinct within the USA ADI ammo though.
Range report!
I shot two different guns at a recent field rifle match. 3 position (standing @ 100, transition to seated @ 200, transition to prone @ 300 & prone @ 400 yards), Army AQT sized target with a 5" V ring, unsupported sling only, against the clock + mandatory mag swaps @ 200 & 300. All sighter groups were 3 shots shot in prone position.
1st gun was an iron sighted all original 1994 20" Colt Sporter (+ RRA 2 stage NM trigger). Gun was classed in "Service Rifle" All of my sighter groups were ~1.5 - ~3 MOA with the best being ~1.25 MOA. This with 50+ year old eyes. I thought I could center hold on that white 5" V ring but it was pretty flipping tough to see @ 300 & 400. I should have used a 6 O'clock hold but didn't have time to rezero before the match.
Comeups:
100 yard zero = 8/3 - 3 clicks.
200 yards = 8/3 - 2 clicks.
300 yards = 8/3 + 1 click. (8/3 was still close but hit a bit low out of the V ring).
400 yards = 4 + 2 clicks.
^^^shot good enough for 2nd place.
2nd gun was a home built PSA with a Faxon 18" gunner barrel, Magpul PRS stock, BCM free floated hand guard, LaRue trigger, Accupoint 3-9x triangle reticle scope.
Comeups:
100 yards = 1.75 MOA sighters. Zero'd @ 100.
200 yards = 2 MOA sighters. Comeup + 1 MOA.
300 yards = 1 MOA sighters. Comeup + 3.5 MOA. +3.25 might have stacked one more in the V.
400 yards = 1 MOA sighters. Comeup + 6 MOA.
^^^shot good enough in "Open Class" to win the match with a 38/40-V8 & 39/40-V6 score. ^^^ this same Faxon gun shot sub MOA sighters & better groups using the ADI 69 gr SMK ammo at the last event.
Couple photos of 5 shot groups using CBC 77 gr. OTM from bench.
Gun was recent build using BA 18" Hanson, VLtor upper, precision washer with BCM mod 0 muzzle device/15" KMR-A.
Optics are Trijicon 2.5-12.5 Accupoint Mil reticle, Warne QD rings.
Average groups were 3/4".
https://i.imgur.com/7E09ruE.jpg
Best group was 3/8".
https://i.imgur.com/zQnzd7I.jpg
I've never had better than 1.25 MOA with BH's 5.56 70 gr. GMX from other guns, this shot 6 rds. in 3/4".
https://i.imgur.com/ZtdwEAg.jpg
5.56_30-06
12-14-17, 16:25
I picked up a bunch of this stuff (along with a bunch of the IMI). I also have some of the factory seconds from BH. Will be interested to see how it performs!
Bumping a slightly old thread with some numbers.
Magteh / CBC chrono'd @ 2390 fps last weekend.
BMC fluted 11.5" barrel w/ BC 1.0 comp.
Temp was ~50 degrees.
I had a 50 yard zero and was able to hit the 300 yard X with a 5 MOA holdover. I need to sell off my M855 and just buy more of this stuff.
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