View Full Version : Why Colt Can't Shoot Straight
Amp Mangum
05-29-14, 21:03
http://mobile.businessweek.com/articles/2014-05-29/colts-curse-gunmakers-owners-have-led-it-to-crisis-after-crisis
Leaveammoforme
05-29-14, 21:35
Good 'beginnings to now' read. Too bad it reads like a B-movie script. More troubles ahead.
brushy bill
05-29-14, 21:52
They need to relocate to a gun friendly, non-union state.
Colt probably will not survive the coming downturn.
They have had some of the most incompetent executives the world has ever seen.
Colt's has been mismanaged since my POV was a tricycle. I was going to say "systematically mismanaged" but that would imply a certain degree of competence that never existed. Sad.
I have been setting aside their catalogues and fliers for years in the expectation that the company would collapse any day. I don't know how they keep going.
Belmont31R
05-29-14, 23:43
Colt's has been mismanaged since my POV was a tricycle. I was going to say "systematically mismanaged" but that would imply a certain degree of competence that never existed. Sad.
I have been setting aside their catalogues and fliers for years in the expectation that the company would collapse any day. I don't know how they keep going.
Gov contracts?
MountainRaven
05-30-14, 00:01
I'm going to be mildly entertained if Colt goes the way of Winchester... and, ironically, gets bought out by FN.
I just read an article on Bloomberg Business week (link (http://mobile.businessweek.com/articles/2014-05-29/colts-curse-gunmakers-owners-have-led-it-to-crisis-after-crisis#p1)). I found it to be fascinating and depressing at the same time. There was so much of its history that I didn't know about. After reading the article it seems like the company has always been and continues to be cursed by incompetent leadership that consistently exhibits extremely poor decision making skills. It's almost as if the people in charge are mental copies of Alan from "The Hangover". This article also brings to mind the cluster fudge going on with their expansion into Florida. First they buy the facility, then try to back out of it, then commit to it, and still as far as I know haven't really done anything with it.
As for what I see, there are a couple of things that I got out of it. Bankruptcy needs to be avoided for the simple reason that if anyone was willing to buy the company I'm willing to bet that they would split it up at best or sell it off in bits and pieces at worst. Even though privately held, Colt needs a corporate leadership enema. If I ran my company like this I would have been out on my ass a long time ago. Another thing I feel that has to be done is they need to move. Go to a non union state and lower your employment costs. Moving, while costly, also has other benefits such as a more tax friendly environment and modern facilities which will have a lower operating cost. It does come with the perils of losing experienced machinists but with an investment in job training and a merciless quality assurance staff it can be mitigated. Heck why not partner with Mike Rowe (of Dirty Jobs fame) and his Mike Rowe foundation, which is trying to churn out people with the exact type of skills that Colt would need with such a move. Next up they need to find the Capitol for R&D and come up with something new. We're always looking for that "perfect pistol" after all. Other that the M1911 and a few others they don't have anything to be beholden to. I think this is an opportunity they need to go with. Or is the article way off base and my conclusions are therefore wrong?
What are your thoughts on the article and your take on the implications and ramifications. If anyone has any inside knowledge, does the article ring true? Is Colt still, after all these years, stuck in the mentality of GM from the 70s and 80s? Has anyone seen an improvement in the quality of their products (aside from the M4)? Does anyone see any hope for this company or do you think that it is destined to be in bankruptcy in the near future? Is bankruptcy their only hope, that a white Knight investor could save it, and in the process be freed from the financial situation they are facing? Are there any out there who could be that white Knight? We know that the freedom group would probably be a disaster? Who would you pick to head up the new team? Where would that person come from? Detroit? Silicon Valley? Houston and the oil industry? What do you think can be done?
I just read an article on Bloomberg Business week (link (http://mobile.businessweek.com/articles/2014-05-29/colts-curse-gunmakers-owners-have-led-it-to-crisis-after-crisis#p1)). I found it to be fascinating and depressing at the same time. There was so much of its history that I didn't know about. After reading the article it seems like the company has always been and continues to be cursed by incompetent leadership that consistently exhibits extremely poor decision making skills. It's almost as if the people in charge are mental copies of Alan from "The Hangover". This article also brings to mind the cluster fudge going on with their expansion into Florida. First they buy the facility, then try to back out of it, then commit to it, and still as far as I know haven't really done anything with it.
The unions played a roll in the FL facility. That has been worked out now.
A good friend of mine is in a place of some power and control. Many of the really "positive" changes to Colt AR's (like changing the hammer/trigger pins to .154) was his doing. He will do his best to influence and change some of the sacred cows there (or will die trying).
As for what I see, there are a couple of things that I got out of it. Bankruptcy needs to be avoided for the simple reason that if anyone was willing to buy the company I'm willing to bet that they would split it up at best or sell it off in bits and pieces at worst. Even though privately held, Colt needs a corporate leadership enema. If I ran my company like this I would have been out on my ass a long time ago. Another thing I feel that has to be done is they need to move. Go to a non union state and lower your employment costs. Moving, while costly, also has other benefits such as a more tax friendly environment and modern facilities which will have a lower operating cost. It does come with the perils of losing experienced machinists but with an investment in job training and a merciless quality assurance staff it can be mitigated. Heck why not partner with Mike Rowe (of Dirty Jobs fame) and his Mike Rowe foundation, which is trying to churn out people with the exact type of skills that Colt would need with such a move. Next up they need to find the Capitol for R&D and come up with something new. We're always looking for that "perfect pistol" after all. Other that the M1911 and a few others they don't have anything to be beholden to. I think this is an opportunity they need to go with. Or is the article way off base and my conclusions are therefore wrong?
What are your thoughts on the article and your take on the implications and ramifications. If anyone has any I side knowledge, does the article ring true? Is Colt still, after all these years, stuck in the mentality of GM from the 70s and 80s? Has anyone seen an improvement (non M4) in the quality of their products? Does anyone see any hope for this company or do you think that it is destined to be in bankruptcy in the near future? Is bankruptcy their only hope, that a white Knight investor could save it, and in the process be freed from the financial situation they are facing? Are there any out there who could be that white Knight? We know that the freedom group would probably be a disaster? Who would you pick to head up the new team? Where would that person come from? Detroit? Silicon Valley? Houston and the oil industry? What do you think can be done?
Commercial and Mil are now united and this will help with a lot of things in the future.
Yes I agree on needing to move out of the State they are in.
C4
They've dodged bullets for many years, pulling boner-Chihuahua moves that would have sunk other companies without a product the government was locked into.
Series 70 bushings. Series 80 lockworks. High prices due to Union costs. Split pin, big pin, receivers blocked (and cut carrier) ARs. Repetitive high bids on government tenders -- all self-inflicted foot shots.
They just bought LWRC. Is the public really demanding a high price point piston rifle/carbine?
Let's just hope that Freedom Group isn't interested in Colt. We can see what they did to Remington and the rest of their companies.:angry:
They just bought LWRC. Is the public really demanding a high price point piston rifle/carbine?
To my knowledge this is not correct.
C4
It's almost as if the people in charge are mental copies of Alan from "The Hangover".
:sarcastic:
The LWRCi purchase carves that notion in STONE!! Who buys those fukktards???
Nuts. I was planning on buying a couple LWRC rifles at some point, now I don't know if they'll be in production long enough or not double in price by the time I get around to it. :(
Colt's situation is so much like other northeastern based companies and unions: because they've been around forever they assume that they're entitled to be as stupid as they want to be because they're entitled to survive it. They figure they don't have to keep earning their place in the world because someone else years ago already did. Kodak, GM, and IBM never thought there to be a problem with having 50-100 extra overpaid executives sitting around having meetings about when the next meeting will be, promising their union retirees the moon, halting all innovation around 1990-1994 or so, etc. Entire cities are mothballed because of that. Rust Belt stupidity.
How is it that such high level of incompetence always finds its way to leadership?
30 cal slut
05-30-14, 10:06
Colt probably will not survive the coming downturn.
They have had some of the most incompetent executives the world has ever seen.
New management team has its act together and knows what has to get done.
The company is in a transition. It has to diversify away from Army M4 contracts and increase sales from several areas including:
1) international military (lumpy, CLTDEF is about done with a large Malaysian M4 contract).
and
2) commercial sales.
Where are the new commercial sales going to come from?
A) More of an emphasis on handgun sales. Handguns are still showing solid growth post-2013 panic, driven by new gun owners (particularly women), rising penetration of CCW (IL alone is going to get 300,000 applicants this year, that means more CCW pistols), and the tendency for gun owners to own more than one gun. The average, according to NSSF is 8 guns per person. If EBR sales are down 30% YoY, handguns are still plodding along at 5-7% growth. Colt is now one company (after being two separate companies since 2003), so they can easily sell more handguns. But there's only so many 1911's that Colt can sell.
B) New product introductions. I heard from the grapevine that Colt may be (finally) introducing a polymer-frame, striker-fired pistol sometime in the next few months. Heard the designer was affiliated with Glock. Colt needs to introduce a sub $1,000 gun to compete with Smith & Wesson (M&P), Ruger, Sig, and Springfield Armory XD, etc. Cross your fingers.
C) Sell more parts. Holy crap, you know and I know that Colt could have minted money last year if it could have made available BCG's and uppers. But there was no place, other than Specialized Armament, to order parts and accessories (and we all know SA is very pricey, I kinda wonder if they just part out whole Colt guns). That's why BCM got a $hitload of my business, lol. By the way, guess what Colt is doing right now? Take a looksee here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?151662-Colt-Complete-Uppers-are-being-offered-again!
D) Colt Canada civilian sales. Colt is probably going to start selling rifles to civilian customers in Canada. Strangely enough, "restricted" and "prohibited" class endorsed licensees have been pretty much able to get whatever we have in the states, but no Colt product. Colt Canada has been just sitting there as an idle asset, primarily doing the R&D for the Canadian Armed forces. This is low hanging fruit for Colt.
Other things that Colt is working on:
E) Recapture margin on US M4 rifle sales. When Colt was two different companies, it was a dysfunctional situation to get LE6920's to the commercial market. Colt Defense LLC (CLTDEF) made the rifles, and had to sell them through Colt's Manufacturing (CMC) to get to the civilian market, since CMC owned the Colt trademark. On top of that, CLTDEF had to pay a $100 royalty on each gun sold to CMC. CMC as a result didn't have a huge incentive to sell these rifles. With the merger of the two companies last year, this has all gone away.
F) Produce more handguns outside of West Hartford, CT. Colt has negotiated a contract with the UAW which gives Colt the flexibility to expand handgun manufacturing in a lower-cost, gun-friendlier climate. Location TBA. That means better profitability.
It's a do or die this year for Colt. Bankruptcy is a real danger for them.
30 cal slut
05-30-14, 12:03
No mention of LWRC in the latest 10-Q.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1508677/000110465914038672/a14-9446_110q.htm
While it's been bandied about in the blogosphere, and the company's body language is that they are interested in LWRC, such a transaction has not closed.
Colt doesn't have the cash.
The unions played a roll in the FL facility. That has been worked out now.
C4
Are they still going to use the place in Kissimmee, FL? I haven't been by it in a while, but last I saw it didn't look like anyone had moved in to it.
sinlessorrow
05-30-14, 18:32
So what happens to the M16 and M4 TDP, as well as mods and,upgrades to those platforms if they went out of business? Things like cooper extractor spring and H2 buffer really came about thanks to Colt.
Grand58742
05-31-14, 01:23
So what happens to the M16 and M4 TDP, as well as mods and,upgrades to those platforms if they went out of business? Things like cooper extractor spring and H2 buffer really came about thanks to Colt.
I was under the impression the military already owned the M16 TDP. I know Colt retains the M4 though.
My guess is if Colt went out of business entirely the military would make a grab for the M4 TDP. Or if Colt was bought out, it would transfer to whatever company bought them as most patents and trademarks do. But I doubt very seriously Colt would just go out of business. It's a household name and someone will be willing to throw down the cash for the company name at a minimum. Kind of like when Winchester went out for a few years and now they are back. People wanted the Winchester name on their rifles. And the same would apply to Colt.
The problem with Colt is they just aren't keeping up with the times to an extent. While the rest of the AR marketplace has been forging ahead with modifications to the basic setup, Colt continued with a plain 6920 with issue handguards, removable carry handle, plain stock and filled with blah as their flagship rifle. Folks like a bit of variety in their setups and buying something already set up like what BCM and others offer just makes way more sense than having to replace items after you buy it. They've gotten better in recent memory, but still lag behind other manufacturers.
And this isn't a Colt bashing thread, just reality that Colts, by and large, are boring. Reliable, yes. But they just don't have the bells and whistles folks like DD, Knights, Noveske or BCM have. And that's what people want.
If Colt intends to survive without large scale military contracts, they seriously need to look at the business model of their competitors in the AR world that are producing the same quality they are. There is no reason one shouldn't be able to buy a Colt 6920 of the shelf that comes factory direct with a gas block and Keymod, 1913 or M-LOC they (Colt) designed. Or a proprietary rail from Midwest Industries, DD, et al. Or an aftermarket trigger option. I could go on, but not many folks keep their rifles stock once they receive them. And this is something Colt has ignored until recently.
And furthermore, since nobody else will do it, Colt should be locking a design team away in a room, feeding them cold pizza and Red Bull until they come up with a polymer frame, striker fired, single stack .45 in a 1911 pattern that also accepts 1911 mags. I guarantee it will sell. Otherwise, they will never survive on traditional 1911 sales alone to the civilian population.
There is serious money to be made from the name alone. And a lot more money if they'd show a little incentive and creativity.
Grand58742
05-31-14, 02:10
And just because I'm on the subject...if I ran Colt, I would:
1. Design and manufacture the aforementioned single stack striker fired polymer 1911.
2. Two words: MID LENGTH
3. Three words for the 6920 SOCOM: MONO TOP RAIL
4. Start offering more bells and whistles like most other AR manufacturers as previously stated
5. Design a double stack striker fired polymer framed pistol to go after the USAF contract as well as the civilian LEO Glock, Sig and M&P market
6. Design a subcompact polymer framed single stack CCW and go after the LCP and Kahr market
7. Maybe reintroduce limited production of the Python and Anaconda series to see how it went
8. Strike down like a lightning bolt from Thor whomever thought the Rogers stock was a good idea (personal bias, that thing was just ugly)
9. Drop the 901 and make a straight .308 rifle and/or carbine. Keep price competitive with the Armalite AR-10 and M&P10 standard
10. Ten words to round it out: EFF YOU UAW AND CONNECTICUT, WE ARE MOVING TO DIXIE
Colt's made a fortune on their US Government contract lines (M1911A1, M16, and M4).
They have a reputation (with their genuine .mil products) for producing consistent, quality MILSPEC guns for the most part.
Uncle Sam, by law, states a manufacturer CANNOT charge a civilian customer (or some foreign government) less for the SAME product. With union costs that's not difficult for Colt to justify, but may cut into their competitive position as others aren't constrained and can pile on a couple of other features for a generally equivalent gun at the same price.
Springfield Armory M1911A1s made that company when all Colt was offering was series 80 Government Models at a much higher price and their odd revolver and automatic offerings were helping bleed profit from the company's veins.
Stocking a dozen different accessory packages cuts into the bottom line as you add more outside parts to an OEM offering.
Poor management and direction and bad financial decisions don't help.
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