View Full Version : Effective 5.56 ammo used by Law Enforcement?
veteran-USMC
06-02-14, 09:17
Two days ago I became reacquainted with a tool I used in the Marine Corps-bought a Colt M4-5.56 rifle for some serious fun & home protection. This baby has a 16 inch barrel & 1/7 twist! To me a gun fight is like a fist fight because everyone is looking for that one knockout punch & don't realize that you have to set up your punches for the knockout. I know I could go to Roberts site for his opinion on 5.56 ammo but no disrespect to this man but I would rather hear from both retired & active Law Enforcement >What 5.56 ammo is effectively incapacitating a felon? What brand & weight 5.56 ammo is your dept using that gives reliable results. Thank-you for your information! Semper Fi Till The Day I Die!:thank_you2:
Leonidas24
06-02-14, 09:24
Last time I checked my local PD was using 55 gr Speer Gold Dots.
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veteran-USMC
06-02-14, 09:50
Thank-you for your quick reply! Is your local PD using soft point or hollow point Speer Gold Dots?
Thank-you for your quick reply! Is your local PD using soft point or hollow point Speer Gold Dots?
In 5.56/.223, Gold Dot is only a soft point.
We are only allowed to use 55 grain fmj from 5 manufacturers or winchester 64 grain power points.
Police departments have to think about liability first, everything else second.
We are only allowed to use 55 grain fmj from 5 manufacturers or winchester 64 grain power points.
Police departments have to think about liability first, everything else second.
Could you clarify a little? Are you using the FMJ as duty rounds or practice?
Also, I'm not sure what you mean with your statement regarding liability. Any duty-related load will be designed to maximize performance on the bad guy while minimizing overpenetration.
veteran-USMC
06-02-14, 12:53
Thank-you BC98 for your ammo common sense!
Could you clarify a little? Are you using the FMJ as duty rounds or practice?
Also, I'm not sure what you mean with your statement regarding liability. Any duty-related load will be designed to maximize performance on the bad guy while minimizing overpenetration.
Fmj is both practice and carry. After doing a lot of research, there are plenty of other bullet weights and designs I would carry first in a 5.56 platform.
As for liability issues, before it gets the blessing of approval, it goes through the civil law side of our corporation council. Lawyers dictate policy, even with officer safety.
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We are only allowed to use 55 grain fmj from 5 manufacturers or winchester 64 grain power points.
Police departments have to think about liability first, everything else second.
LEO safety and ability to effectively put BGs down secondary to liability? I watch CSI just this week and they said it aint like that. :rolleyes:
Having said that, seems like many PDs have chosen 5.56 from major manufacturers with good terminal ballistics from Speer, Winchester, etc.
Your PDs mileage may vary.
LEO safety and ability to effectively put BGs down secondary to liability? I watch CSI just this week and they said it aint like that. :rolleyes:
Having said that, seems like many PDs have chosen 5.56 from major manufacturers with good terminal ballistics from Speer, Winchester, etc.
Your PDs mileage may vary.
Preach officer safety is paramount yet get hinkey with the tools we use. To their credit, the handgun ammo is a lot more open.
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What I have seen used in our area is 55g SP made by Winchester and Federal. Accuracy could be a bit better when punching paper, but there was good feedback after use in the field.
There are two incidents that come to mind where XM193 worked well. In both instances the rounds were fired out of carbines with 1:9 twist barrels and the threat stopped immediately.
None of the incidents involved penetration of cover or at distances greater than 25 yards before a threat was struck by the projectile.
Glad to hear that as I carry the xm193. I have to make a call to a buddy at the range to find out what the boys and girls used in their ois, using the carbine. All of them worked extremely well from what I understand.
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Two days ago I became reacquainted with a tool I used in the Marine Corp-bought a Colt M4-5.56 rifle for some serious fun & home protection. This baby has a 16 inch barrel & 1/7 twist! To me a gun fight is like a fist fight because everyone is looking for that one knockout punch & don't realize that you have to set up your punches for the knockout. I know I could go to Roberts site for his opinion on 5.56 ammo but no disrespect to this man but I would rather hear from both retired & active Law Enforcement >What 5.56 ammo is effectively incapacitating a felon? What brand & weight 5.56 ammo is your dept using that gives reliable results. Thank-you for your information! Semper Fi Till The Day I Die!:thank_you2:
This might not be the wisest move as a lot of PD's and SO's will use M193 or M855.
I would suggest following loads that the FBI approves (barrier blind). They would be Speer GD, Federal T1/T3 and 70gr TSX.
C4
veteran-USMC
06-02-14, 16:15
Thank-you for your comment! Even as a former Marine Corp Veteran I am still humble enough to learn knowledge of ammo,etc. because you will never know it all! Example: (1) Various parts of New York -law enforcement use -.223 Federal LE Tactical Tru 55gr. HP T22E. (2) Parts of Indianna law enforcement use .223 Speer Gold Dot 55gr. SP (3) parts of Texas use .223 Hornady Tap 75gr. HP. Unless you decide to take a nation wide survey on what 5.56/223 ammo police units use -This thread is a wise way to gather knowledge on various police units across the nation in regards to 5.56/223 ammo that is reliable in helping them perform their job. When you come to the stage of thinking you know it all that's when you don't know anything!
veteran-USMC
06-02-14, 16:16
This might not be the wisest move as a lot of PD's and SO's will use M193 or M855.
I would suggest following loads that the FBI approves (barrier blind). They would be Speer GD, Federal T1/T3 and 70gr TSX.
C4
Thank-you for your comment! Even as a former Marine Corp Veteran I am still humble enough to learn knowledge of ammo,etc. because you will never know it all! Example: (1) Various parts of New York -law enforcement use -.223 Federal LE Tactical Tru 55gr. HP T22E. (2) Parts of Indianna law enforcement use .223 Speer Gold Dot 55gr. SP (3) parts of Texas use .223 Hornady Tap 75gr. HP. Unless you decide to take a nation wide survey on what 5.56/223 ammo police units use -This thread is a wise way to gather knowledge on various police units across the nation in regards to 5.56/223 ammo that is reliable in helping them perform their job. When you come to the stage of thinking you know it all that's when you don't know anything!
BufordTJustice
06-02-14, 17:34
This might not be the wisest move as a lot of PD's and SO's will use M193 or M855.
I would suggest following loads that the FBI approves (barrier blind). They would be Speer GD, Federal T1/T3 and 70gr TSX.
C4
My agency issues Federal 62gr TBBC T3 and Speer 62gr GDSP .223 when the TBBC runs thin.
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Eurodriver
06-04-14, 07:09
Nevermind...
LE buys and uses all different kinds of .223/5.56mm ammo.
I've sold Federal T223A, T223E, T223F, LE223T1, LE223T3, GM233, and pretty much the entire Hornady TAP line for patrol use. Some urban departments want minimal penetration through barriers so they use the T223F or the Hornady Urban TAP rounds... others want the comfort of knowing they can shoot through barriers and drop bad guys, so they pay the money for the LE223T1 or Hornady 70gr GMX, etc. That's not to discount the Black Hills, Speer, or Winchester loads... I just don't personally handle them.
I service police departments across about 5 counties. One municipality might use TAP 62gr Barrier ammo, while 1 mile down the road they use T223E. There is no rhyme or reason... it's whatever the Chief or firearms instructor for the department feels like (or in the case of the past few years, whatever was actually available to them).
Your best bet is to research your options, know the capabilities of those options, then buy what you can afford/find/works. What I might keep in my home defense AR might be different than what I keep in my car gun, etc.
Our agency uses 64gr Gold Dot. I would have 0 issues using major brand XM193.
malstew123
06-07-14, 18:02
I am not an LEO. As said by others, I would look at any bonded bullet made by a major manufacturer. I've got a lot of federal fusion, similar to the Speer gold dot, and it is fairly inexpensive online.
and sir, please spell Marine Corp as Marine Corps before I have a brain aneurysm.
veteran-USMC
06-07-14, 18:08
I am not an LEO. As said by others, I would look at any bonded bullet made by a major manufacturer. I've got a lot of federal fusion, similar to the Speer gold dot, and it is fairly inexpensive online.
and sir, please spell Marine Corp as Marine Corps before I have a brain aneurysm.Thank-you for your post. Marine Corps, Marine Corps, Marine Corps
PS We all had an aneurysm when we entered Marine Corps BOOT CAMP. Aneurysm, aneurysm and another aneurysm.
AND for proper English you wrote I am not an LEO--Should read-I am not a LEO. Another aneurysm.
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