View Full Version : HK new striker fired pistol VP9! Pics inside!
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Just got the flyer and pricing info! Delivery should be in July.
PDF Download here: http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/HK/VP9%20Product%20Sheet%20JUNE.pdf
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/HK/HK_VP9.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/HK/HK_VP9-1.jpg
ColdDeadHands
06-03-14, 13:19
Similar in size to the PPX. Don't know about this one...
Reading the PDF it looks like it takes P30 magazines? Am I correct in that?
Also will the barrels interchange between the two? I ask due to owning a threaded HKparts P30 barrel.
I would also hazard the guess that the sights will interchange between the series pistols? If so the Heinie and other products should already be acceptable for it.
Looking forward to this.
Reading the PDF it looks like it takes P30 magazines? Am I correct in that?
Also will the barrels interchange between the two? I ask due to owning a threaded HKparts P30 barrel.
I would also hazard the guess that the sights will interchange between the series pistols? If so the Heinie and other products should already be acceptable for it.
Looking forward to this.
Correct on the mags. No idea on the barrels. My guess is no.
Sights should work across the board as there NS's available from the factory and are listed for ALL P30 series.
C4
MSRP is $719, any idea what street price will be?
beschatten
06-03-14, 13:49
Question on service life:
Other 9mm HKs have 91k rounds.
Why is this one rated at 10k?
"Rated at" is not the same thing as "Capable of".
Question on service life:
Other 9mm HKs have 91k rounds.
Why is this one rated at 10k?
I'm guessing they just haven't fed the additional 81k rounds through them yet.
MSRP is $719, any idea what street price will be?
Somewhere in the $600's is my guess.
C4
Linkie no workie.
MSRP of $719 isn't bad. That could put the street price round $650 or so. Not Glock, MP or PPQ esque, but not bad. Wonder what kind of screwed up trigger system they put in there. Maybe just ONCE they locked the lawyers away and put in a system that is actually nice.
What's the doohickey protruding from the rear of the slide?
Howdy,
Looks like someone's attempt to make an overpriced Glock.
Paul
Linkie no workie.
MSRP of $719 isn't bad. That could put the street price round $650 or so. Not Glock, MP or PPQ esque, but not bad. Wonder what kind of screwed up trigger system they put in there. Maybe just ONCE they locked the lawyers away and put in a system that is actually nice.
If you look at the brochure, they actually have a graph of trigger pull weight vs distance, which shows a longer trigger pull, but a lighter and smoother pull than two "leading competing striker fired pistol triggers".
DreadPirateMoyer
06-03-14, 14:25
If you look at the brochure, they actually have a graph of trigger pull weight vs distance, which shows a longer trigger pull, but a lighter and smoother pull than two "leading competing striker fired pistol triggers".
This. It looks like it's a bit longer, a lot lighter, and has much less stack. I see this, based on that, as a positive development. Can't wait to get my hands on one and see how it feels in real life.
EDIT: Grant, do you know if there are plans for tactical models a la the 45 and 45C? I would love a threaded barrel with night sights on this puppy.
Howdy,
Looks like someone's attempt to make an overpriced Glock.
Paul
It will be more reliable and accurate than a Glock.
C4
Linkie no workie.
MSRP of $719 isn't bad. That could put the street price round $650 or so. Not Glock, MP or PPQ esque, but not bad. Wonder what kind of screwed up trigger system they put in there. Maybe just ONCE they locked the lawyers away and put in a system that is actually nice.
What's the doohickey protruding from the rear of the slide?
Link works. YOu have to let it download (large file).
C4
Looks like someone's attempt to make an overpriced Glock.
No no, not glock, but Walther PPQ.
acaixguard
06-03-14, 14:40
Looks like there is still a trough in the inside bottom of the trigger guard, which is one annoying aspect of the P30. Any reason HK still has those?
Otherwise looks very promising. Wonder if this will affect PPQ sales at all.
No no, not glock, but Walther PPQ.
I swear they look nearly identical.
ETA: but I guess the PPQ looks just like the HK P30 :p
WickedWillis
06-03-14, 14:42
http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y409/Wickedwillis/heavy-breathing-cat_zps4c59fca2.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Wickedwillis/media/heavy-breathing-cat_zps4c59fca2.jpg.html)
Barring something crazy happening, or it being a total lemon this will be my next HK purchase.
Wonder if this will affect PPQ sales at all.
I doubt it. People who bought PPQ did so because they wouldn't (for many reasons) want to pay over $900 for another German handgun. People who will buy the HK, wouldn't be the people that were eyeing the PPQ in the first place. They can afford to pay more (yes it's encouraging to see that MSRP is less than $800 and street price will be even less), brand loyalty and consider that anything else would be inferior in quality. I'm sure the new HK's quality will be top notch and buyers will be happy.
I'm happy with my PPQ, M&P and CZ P07.
Looks like there is still a trough in the inside bottom of the trigger guard, which is one annoying aspect of the P30. Any reason HK still has those?
Otherwise looks very promising. Wonder if this will affect PPQ sales at all.
Im sure it will. HK has a bigger, more recognizable name. I personally believe there will be more aftermarket support vs the PPQ as well.
brickboy240
06-03-14, 14:56
Oh my!!!...must have!!
The Glock-killer.....has it arrived?
For 600-650 if it flat out runs and does not give brass to face or other nonsense...I don't know why it will not sell like mad.
...sign me up for one.
-brickboy240
Yeah, I'll probably end up with one. Been thinking of a P30 but will probably get this instead.
since hk makes contract guns mostly, I wonder who this was made for.
Unfortunately, it still has the G17 height and G19 length thing going on.
masternave
06-03-14, 15:30
Color me very interested. This looks *very* nice.
wildcard600
06-03-14, 15:40
striker fired: the wave of the future.
said someone talking about the new Roth-Steyr 1907.
A police agency in Germany, but this is the civilian model, there is a near identical polizei model with a slightly different/heavier trigger.
If it is hitting the $600 range and is as reliable and accurate as the P30 I would be in for one. Still wanting a P30 though, but for $300-400 less I would be content with one of these in a holster. Figure a new Glock is running in the $500-550 range I wouldn't have issue paying $50 more for this if it is as good as it sounds. Will have to wait and see.
Wonder if the P30 holsters would fit it?
black22rifle
06-03-14, 15:46
This makes my Glock sad. I wonder what the trigger pull is like.
Just got the flyer and pricing info! Delivery should be in July.
C4
Any chance of pre-orders?
Interesting. Is it just me or does that slide profile look a good bit lower than the P30?
I'd love to see a side by side of the two when it becomes available......hint hint Grant.
ETA: Am I reading that correctly as the reset is .12 inches?
Oh my!!!...must have!!
The Glock-killer.....has it arrived?
For 600-650 if it flat out runs and does not give brass to face or other nonsense...I don't know why it will not sell like mad.
...sign me up for one.
-brickboy240
Definitely a very attractive option for HK lovers and people looking for something different but I doubt it will kill the Glock just because of the amount of aftermarket parts/shops for the platform. I cannot wait to get my hands on one though to see if it will be all that people have been clamoring for. Definitely would love to give it a good shake to see if I should get one of these instead of another P30.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f33/wolvee123/Guns/8_zpsa894fbbc.png
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f33/wolvee123/Guns/1_zpsb1de2ebc.png
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f33/wolvee123/Guns/5_zpsf1976504.png
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f33/wolvee123/Guns/7_zps6bb4e485.png
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f33/wolvee123/Guns/6_zps970216cc.png
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f33/wolvee123/Guns/4_zps2c052b06.png
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f33/wolvee123/Guns/3_zps1d28dc65.png
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f33/wolvee123/Guns/2_zps3b954088.png
The Glock-killer.....has it arrived?
I don't think this will be the Glock-killer until they release an sk model to compete with the 26, but my fingers are crossed. I am VERY excited for this!
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-03-14, 16:51
Major kudos for getting rid of the goofy super extendo slide lever (at least for righties). And thank GOD they didn't abandon the mag release levers. I'll buy one!:D
I like it especially if they don't kitten up the trigger. I'll try to download the brochure from home. iPhone isn't cutting it.
Still interested in what the little wings under the rear sight are for.
paperchasin
06-03-14, 17:00
Still interested in what the little wings under the rear sight are for.
The PDF says they are "charging supports" to aid in racking the slide.
I like it especially if they don't kitten up the trigger.
You're not on PF.
Question on service life:
Other 9mm HKs have 91k rounds.
Why is this one rated at 10k?
Service life is when components should be replaced... springs and stuff. Not when the pistol magically quits working.
Service life is when components should be replaced... springs and stuff. Not when the pistol magically quits working.
It was also the specified service life in a few Federal LE contracts.
teutonicpolymer
06-03-14, 17:22
It will be more reliable and accurate than a Glock.
C4
I think it might be too early to make definitive judgments but it sounds like the price is reasonable.
DreadPirateMoyer
06-03-14, 17:26
I think it might be too early to make definitive judgments but it sounds like the price is reasonable.
I don't. Almost all of HK's offerings are both more accurate and more reliable than Glock. This shows no sign of being any different. It's a pretty reasonable prediction, especially with modern-gen Glocks.
teutonicpolymer
06-03-14, 17:37
I don't. Almost all of HK's offerings are both more accurate and more reliable than Glock. This shows no sign of being any different. It's a pretty reasonable prediction, especially with modern-gen Glocks.
To each his own. I have been satisfied with Glock reliability and often impressed by Glock accuracy (particularly for the price point) with even cheap ammo.
PatrioticDisorder
06-03-14, 17:47
Two words, GAME CHANGER!
Grant will you be accepting pre-orders for these?
I'll buy one, but not right away.
I'll wait for the duty and CCW holster market to catch up and see how it is received by dudes that will actually shoot a bunch of ammo thru it.
A $650 HK that is as accurate as the P30 line and as reliable as HK's in general will be a game changer.
NCPatrolAR
06-03-14, 18:04
certainly keen on getting one of these. The only negative I see to it right now is the baboon ass-like red tipped striker
Looks..... interesting. Don't judge a book by its cover. I think it's all going to come down to the trigger feel. The only thing keeping the P30 LLEM from dominating. Well, that and price.
certainly keen on getting one of these. The only negative I see to it right now is the baboon ass-like red tipped striker
Lol, I was thinking the same thing. A play date with a sharpie would be a must.
I'm intrigued. I have no desire to replace my Glocks but I have been itching to add a different striker fired pistol to my safe.
I like the history lesson in the name they chose...Kind of backhanded smack down to gLoCk do you think? ...I'll buy one eventually, but I still prefer a hammer.
I'm pretty satisfied with my PPQ, PPX and M&P as well....this should be better all things considered.
I'll buy one, but not right away.
I'll wait for the duty and CCW holster market to catch up and see how it is received by dudes that will actually shoot a bunch of ammo thru it.
A $650 HK that is as accurate as the P30 line and as reliable as HK's in general will be a game changer.
The dimensions are so similar I bet it already has interchangeability with Hk45 & P30L Holsters.
If you study the trigger graph, you will see that it functions as a two stage trigger with noticeable creep during the actual sear release, followed by some over travel. Not a very desirable trigger pull. The creep leads me to believe the striker is partially cocked, like the Glock, with the final portion of the trigger pull performing the final cocking action. Maybe the VP9 will be a Glock killer but the trigger isn't a patch on the PPQ
decodeddiesel
06-03-14, 19:30
OK, now I'm glad I waited on the G17. I'll give it a few months and see how the HKs are received.
MountainRaven
06-03-14, 20:03
Looks like somebody grafted a PPX slide to a P30 frame.
That being said, I can't wait to have one in hand. And I'm fair well certain, this will be a Glock-killer. The Glock-killer the PPQ should have been.
Only reason I picked up a PPQ over the P30 recently was trigger & of course price. If the triggers on these are nearly as good or better than the PPQ then I'll pick one of these up as well! Looking forward to some reviews.
JBecker 72
06-03-14, 20:25
Yeah, this should go nicely with my P30 and P2000SK. Great price as well.
Still holding out hope for a P30SK though.
I'm buying one the first opportunity I get. Time to stock up on P30 mags.
I'll take it!! Someone from a free state please move to Kalifornia and bring one with them to sell to me (perfectly legal)---thanks, and no, I'm not kidding...
Grant will you be accepting pre-orders for these?
I am curious as to this answer as well.
NorthDakota
06-03-14, 20:58
I'll reserve judgement until handling. I owned a PPQ for awhile but went back to Glock exclusively. I have big hands and long fingers and the PPQ was very "crowded". This looks to be the same. I get good distal joint placement with a Gen 3 grip size on the Glock WITH the beavertails to prevent Glock slide bite.
1) I'd like to see this in a "longslide" version...
2) Does it have that unnecessary (to me) Internal Locking System, which has made me turn my nose up to HK based on principle.
I would have jumped on this maybe a year ago. With Apex parts on a recent production M&P and S&W's amazing warranty, I find no reason to get any other polymer striker fired pistol.
Besides "just because". And that's probably enough of a reason to buy one lol. We'll see what Grant sells them for to Mil/LE!
decodeddiesel
06-03-14, 21:27
I'd like to see this in a "longslide" version...
That would have IDPA SSP written all over it.
Reading the PDF it looks like it takes P30 magazines? Am I correct in that?
Correct on the mags.
This is a real win IMO. Now if they can just add an SK version to go with it.
-john
A P2000/Glock 19 equivalent size intrigues me.
Damn.. now what do I do....About 5-6 wks ago I got rid of a P-30 LEM, because It just wasn't working for me.. Bought a CZ P-07, what little bit I've shot it shows that I can shoot it very well. I figure some polishing, and a short reset kit from CGW, and some decent sights and it'll be good to go. I liked the P-07 so much I was/am considering a P-09..then this comes along.. My quandary is, I've got 6 brand new P-30 mags, a set of Trijicon HD's for a P-30, and a holster for a P-30, and I've got some cash coming in.. soon. Should I take a chance on the new HK, or stick to my plan on buying a P-09 and have it set up like the P-07? on one hand, I've got extra mags, a set of decent sights, and really, I wouldn't need much else. On the other, I didn't shoot the p-30 well, and there's no guarantee I'd shoot this any better.. plus the G19 slide length and G17 grip length comment is pretty much true.. What to do, what to do......
If it comes in larger calibers i might trade in my p30. I wish my p30 had a shorter and lighter double action, but single is great.
I am very interested in this.
Levi
Beat Trash
06-03-14, 22:43
I am very interested in this as well. I'd really like to see someone do a comparison between this and the PPQ.
I'm definitely curious about how that trigger feels.
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-03-14, 23:00
If I can get one, I will put 10k through it in 6 months--all steel cased crap ammo!
I'm buying one the first opportunity I get. Time to stock up non P30 mags.
They currently have HK P30 15 rd 9mm mags here : www.hkspecialiststore.com
and here : http://lanbosarmory.com
crazymoose
06-04-14, 00:55
I like the history lesson in the name they chose...Kind of backhanded smack down to gLoCk do you think? ...I'll buy one eventually, but I still prefer a hammer.
Had assumed VP was an abbreviation for "volkspistole," a decidedly inauspicious name. If I didn't know better I would have thought "volks" was the German word for crap, based on its history as a prefix: the volkspistole (WWII), the volkssturmgewehr, the Volkswagen, the volksjager, and the VP70. However, it looks like H&K are going to break with that tradition in this case.
Coal Dragger
06-04-14, 01:56
Looks promising as everyone has pointed out. I'll wait for credible reviews from reliable beta testers before I buy one though.
jonbondave
06-04-14, 03:27
I wish they could have done this sooner. But I've thinned the herd so to speak for pistols. I still technically own an HK P2000sk but it has been colonized by my wife. I'm sticking with Glock(s), M&P's, and a very nice 1911.
I'll probably try one out.
Price isn't bad, especially compared to current M&Ps and Glock 19s that need $50-100 in Apex parts to run right, so it's pretty much even.
Crow Hunter
06-04-14, 07:22
I have a few questions.
1. Price - Why is it $300+ cheaper than a P30 using the same magazine, similar if not the same frame, and very similar slides? Are the hammer fired guns THAT much more material or labor intensive than the striker fired guns? (I don't think so) We have always been told that the reason the HK Pseries/USP were so expensive is that they were built to a higher standard than say a M&P or a Glock. So why are these so much cheaper? Cheaper materials? Less inspections? Lower standards? Manufactured in a different country (USA vs Germany)? Or have we been fed a line of BS from the get go about HK?
2. Size - Darn you HK, why do you keep making weird sized guns (size inefficient). I am beginning to think that Glock is the one making weird sized guns (Glock 19) and everyone else is "normal".:D
3. Does the striker tail protrude from the back of the slide as the trigger is being pulled? If so, that is a GREAT idea and that will really make me want to get one.
4. Does this mean the P2000/USP series will drop in price as well? (I really like the P2000, just not the price)
I like the fact they have kept the grip panels and I like the magazine release. I am interested but as usual, it will take A LOT to get me to divest from my Glock setup. But if it works well, I might be tempted to change over.
I get the excitement--in fact this pistol figured strongly into my decision to pick up a P226 instead of a P30 recently--but aren't we getting ahead of ourselves here a little? Glock killer? I thought that this forum was all about rigorous testing of product. From that point of view, this is still an unknown.
Likely to be good? Absolutely. But I'd rather not salivate over it before its been thoroughly vetted.
Gundahar
I get the excitement--in fact this pistol figured strongly into my decision to pick up a P226 instead of a P30 recently--but aren't we getting ahead of ourselves here a little? Glock killer? I thought that this forum was all about rigorous testing of product. From that point of view, this is still an unknown.
Likely to be good? Absolutely. But I'd rather not salivate over it before its been thoroughly vetted.
Gundahar
I don't think anyone has really said that it is definitely a "Glock killer"......there does seem to be a lot of hopeful optimism based on the apparent design and based on HK's track record, and there's nothing really wrong with that. People have been hoping for a [modern] striker fired Heckler & Koch pistol for awhile now.
I'm personally curious to see how the trigger is. I've always liked the LEM P2000 and P30, it will be nice to have another good option if it turns out well.
I have a few questions.
1. Price - Why is it $300+ cheaper than a P30 using the same magazine, similar if not the same frame, and very similar slides? Are the hammer fired guns THAT much more material or labor intensive than the striker fired guns? (I don't think so) We have always been told that the reason the HK Pseries/USP were so expensive is that they were built to a higher standard than say a M&P or a Glock. So why are these so much cheaper? Cheaper materials? Less inspections? Lower standards? Manufactured in a different country (USA vs Germany)? Or have we been fed a line of BS from the get go about HK?
3. Does the striker tail protrude from the back of the slide as the trigger is being pulled? If so, that is a GREAT idea and that will really make me want to get one.
1. Look at the commercial pricing of quality ignition parts (hammer, sear, disco) vs pricing of a striker group. Add good quality hammer struts. I can see hammer fired being a bit more expensive both to produce and R&D.
Lower price may also be a business decision, considering intended market.
3. I surely hope so.
Guinnessman
06-04-14, 07:42
I have yet to own a "Bad" HK pistol, and if this gun lives up to HK standards, it will complement my P30's. The fact that it takes P30 magazines is a huge plus in my book.
PatrioticDisorder
06-04-14, 07:48
I get the excitement--in fact this pistol figured strongly into my decision to pick up a P226 instead of a P30 recently--but aren't we getting ahead of ourselves here a little? Glock killer? I thought that this forum was all about rigorous testing of product. From that point of view, this is still an unknown.
Likely to be good? Absolutely. But I'd rather not salivate over it before its been thoroughly vetted.
Gundahar
It's an H&K, it will be built like a brick shithouse with no corners cut, amazing QC going over it with a fine tooth comb and every gun leaves their factory verified not only for function, but accuracy as well.
Overall I like it. Time will tell how it stacks up as far as trigger feel. With striker pistols, that is the biggest maker or breaker. Maybe it's me, but the cocking ledges on the rear of the slide look silly. They may be functional, but still look out of place. Will wait and see when I get to play with one.
TXPO
What is the purpose of making the firing pin visible from the rear of the slide?
It's an H&K, it will be built like a brick shithouse with no corners cut, amazing QC going over it with a fine tooth comb and every gun leaves their factory verified not only for function, but accuracy as well.
Not to pick on you, but this is exactly what I am talking about. I come to this forum for serious, fact based investigation of firearms, and related items. If I wanted company love for a product sight unseen, I'd visit the other black rifle forum.
(And yes, you are 90%+ likely to be correct--I just want the thing tested before we get all Apple fanboy over it.)
Gundahar
What is the purpose of making the firing pin visible from the rear of the slide?
Supposedly, visible cocked condition indicator. Somewhat of a dumb reasoning, IMO.
Well, if the striker moves rearward when pulling the trigger, like a Walther PPS, it will help VP9 owners avoid typical Glock reholstering NDs, as you can place you thumb on the rear of the slide and feel if the striker is moving just like you can with a hammer fired pistol.
Supposedly, visible cocked condition indicator. Somewhat of a dumb reasoning, IMO.
On the P99, you could theoretically place your thumb on the back of the slide while holstering, much the same as with a TDA hammer fired pistol, and could feel if the trigger got snagged on something and was being pulled.
You can actually prevent PPS from firing by doing the same, although thumb placement has to be very deliberate. It is my deepest hope that VP9 has the same capability, or is not too difficult to modify to get there.
P.S. Rhino has already mentioned it; didn't notice on a small screen of my cell phone.
Any chance of pre-orders?
You can e-mail us and we will put you on the notification list.
C4
I think it might be too early to make definitive judgments but it sounds like the price is reasonable.
Not really. Glock pistols have been struggling the last couple of years and accuracy is all over the place. To date, I have never seen an HK pistol that wasn't accurate or reliable.
C4
To date, I have never seen an HK pistol that wasn't accurate or reliable.
C4
Yep, to date every HK polymer I have seen has been accurate, reliable -- and had a crappy trigger. Hopefully they keep the accurate and reliable part with this one, but finally get a good trigger. The sales brochure's discussion of the trigger gives hope.
The only possibility of launching a "Glock killer" is to sell a product that is less expensive than a Glock combined with a huge marketing effort that offers definitive proof that HK's product is demonstrably better.
In other words, it is not going to happen.
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
Glockers easily forget the $150 they spend on grip reductions / stippling, $75 on extractor swaps, magazine - slide release mods, and of course buttplugs and non plastic sights. Love the $1000 Glock club extolling about how inexpensive their Glock is.
;)
Yep, to date every HK polymer I have seen has been accurate, reliable -- and had a crappy trigger. Hopefully they keep the accurate and reliable part with this one, but finally get a good trigger. The sales brochure's discussion of the trigger gives hope.
Ya, the triggers have always been less than optimal. Even if the trigger is just "ok" I believe that aftermarket companies like Apex Tactical have the ability to improve the system (just like the M&P).
C4
Hard for me to read the brochure on my iPhone.
Does it specify where it's made, USA or Germany?
That would make a difference in price.
The only possibility of launching a "Glock killer" is to sell a product that is less expensive than a Glock combined with a huge marketing effort that offers definitive proof that HK's product is demonstrably better.
In other words, it is not going to happen.
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
If it was all about money, the M&P would be killing the Glock (as it is $70-$120 below Glock's price). So I don't think that the cost of something (as long as it is within $100 dollars) really matters that much.
The main reason why the VP9 cannot be a Glock "killer" is because of two reasons. First is availability. HK really isn't that big of a company and can only make so many pistols. Let us know forget that they STILL make all the USP variants, P2k variants, MK23, HK45 and P30 variants. That is a lot of pistols! The second reason is marketing. HK couldn't market FREE sex. Glock is far superior at this.
C4
Hard for me to read the brochure on my iPhone.
Does it specify where it's made, USA or Germany?
That would make a difference in price.
Germany.
C4
A Glock is good to go out of the box. Mods are what people choose to do to them, just like people send off their HKs for mods to triggers to get them to function smoothly with a better reset, like HK should have made them to begin with.
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
A Glock is good to go out of the box. Mods are what people choose to do to them, just like people send off their HKs for mods to triggers to get them to function smoothly with a better reset, like HK should have made them to begin with.
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
This is incorrect. We are constantly working on Glock's for reliability and accuracy issues. Does this mean they are ALL bad? Absolutely not. I put the number at around 30% that have one or the other of these issues (or both).
The factory glock mag release is to short. The slide stop is less than ideal as well. Sight are not metal and MUST BE changed out.
C4
More info, the charging ledges on the sides are removable, but you must remove the rear sight to do it.
C4
Link works. YOu have to let it download (large file).
C4
Grant, this is where the link takes me.....
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/04/by8uzujy.jpg
I'll likely be picking one of these up...
Grant, this is where the link takes me.....
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/04/by8uzujy.jpg
I just checked and it works just fine. So the problem is on your end.
C4
Grant, this is where the link takes me.....
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/04/by8uzujy.jpg
Copy and paste this without the quotes:
"http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/HK/VP9 Product Sheet JUNE.pdf"
PatrioticDisorder
06-04-14, 09:58
Not to pick on you, but this is exactly what I am talking about. I come to this forum for serious, fact based investigation of firearms, and related items. If I wanted company love for a product sight unseen, I'd visit the other black rifle forum.
(And yes, you are 90%+ likely to be correct--I just want the thing tested before we get all Apple fanboy over it.)
Gundahar
Based upon H&K's track record the only question mark was/is the trigger. If you've been following this particular guns development you would know H&K was cognizant of their rep for creating amazing guns with sub-par triggers and actually delayed any announcement of this gun until they got the trigger right. If you would have actually read the brochure that Grant linked you would see they tested the H&K trigger against 2 other striker guns (presumably Glock & M&P) and on paper it looks like the trigger will not be an issue.... The brochure also shows a sample group at 25 yards shot on 5/20/2014 but I can assure you there is no such thing as an inaccurate H&K.
I'm not an SME but I've owned H&Ks in the past and the only reason I don't currently own them (and likely many other on this forum) is because I've always shot striker fired guns better than DA/SA (and the P7 series is no longer in production).... GAME CHANGER
brickboy240
06-04-14, 10:29
One thing is almost for certain with this new offering....it will probably run 100% right out of the damn box. No brass to face (like Glocks) or accuracy issues at 25yds (like 9mm FS M&Ps).
Nope...the HK45 and P-30s both ran like the devil straight out of the box. No BS. So why wouldn't this new HK pistol not do the same?
Add in the fact that is uses mags that are already made and proven and it takes all HK sights...it already has a lot going for it. Probably fits the P-30 holsters, too.
I want one! LOL
-brickboy240
A Glock is good to go out of the box. Mods are what people choose to do to them, just like people send off their HKs for mods to triggers to get them to function smoothly with a better reset, like HK should have made them to begin with.
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
Absolute minimum an OE Glock needs sights. A decent sent of night sights is $100+ right there. Not saying the sights on this HK are perfect, but Glock's OE sights are probably the worst on any gun off the shelf. When I want to buy a Glock for $525, I basically know I'm going to be in ~$650... probably right where this HK is going to land.
A Glock is good to go out of the box. Mods are what people choose to do to them, just like people send off their HKs for mods to triggers to get them to function smoothly with a better reset, like HK should have made them to begin with.
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
How much do you have into your G34 exactly?
FChen17213
06-04-14, 11:21
This seems very very appealing. I think most of us agree that HK probably should have made a striker fired pistol to compete with the Glock/M&P years ago. While many people do not like HK, we must admit that they make great firearms. G3, MP5, 416, etc. USPs, P2000s, P30s, HK45s have all run right out of the box. I also haven't heard of problems with the MR556 and MR762 series rifles either. That's a very tough thing to do considering almost every companies' initial runs will have a few quirks.
The only thing I definitely do not like is the magazine release. I would venture to guess that most people also are not used to the European style paddle and don't like it either. I wish HK took a page from the Walther PPQM1 going to M2 and did that as well. I also think the trigger will make or break this gun in terms of popularity. If it has a trigger most people like as much as the PPQ's, it'll probably sell super well. If it is as good as a Glock's or slightly better, it'll probably also do pretty well. If it sucks or has a long reset, weak trigger return spring, etc, that may really hamper the popularity of the gun. I know the specs on the trigger are out there, but there is still a very important subjective feel that people care about.
I still doubt this new pistol will get to the popularity level of the Glock or M&P though. That's unfortunately due to price. While it is priced lower than the other HKs, it will likely be still at least $100 more than a Glock or M&P. For many civilians, LEO, and militaries, they will still opt for the gun that costs less. It will be very difficult to catch up with Glock and Smith-Wesson in terms of aftermarket parts, holsters, accessories etc. The FN FNS and Walther PPQ may have gotten some success, but unfortunately are nowhere near rivaling Glock and M&P. I suspect HK won't either unless the military or some real real large LEO agencies adopt it. It could also be a timing thing....the market is saturated. Smith-Wesson had a leg up on most companies as well as they've had such a good long history with US Law Enforcement. I guess time will tell.
Based upon H&K's track record the only question
I think that those folks who had a false reset problem with HK45 and had to send their guns in may have more than one question. Just like those who experienced premature breakages of a firing pin block springs and bushings on P7.
Nobody gets a pass based on a rep, unless it is an entertainment item only.
Dos Cylindros
06-04-14, 11:45
I don't know if this will be a Glock killer for the majority of shooters, and it's not something that really concerns me as I don't shoot Glocks anymore. I will be getting one of these when they are available and I am very interested in wringing one out. Given HK's track record I am confident that this gun will be relatively issue free right from the start. As mentioned, the trigger is still up in the air but as my HK45 and HK45c are both LEM I'm sure the trigger will be better than them. I don't dislike the LEM trigger, in fact I like it very much, but I will admit that I prefer the trigger on my issue M&P and my off duty M&Pc. I'm glad they decided to keep the P30 magazine format as they are relatively reasonably priced and available. Obviously the grip is the same as the P30, and for those of you that have not sampled the P30's grip, you are missing out on what is probably the most adaptable and comfortable grip on the market right now. I for one am very excited to test this pistol out.
I don't know if this will be a Glock killer for the majority of shooters, and it's not something that really concerns me as I don't shoot Glocks anymore. I will be getting one of these when they are available and I am very interested in wringing one out. Given HK's track record I am confident that this gun will be relatively issue free right from the start. As mentioned, the trigger is still up in the air but as my HK45 and HK45c are both LEM I'm sure the trigger will be better than them. I don't dislike the LEM trigger, in fact I like it very much, but I will admit that I prefer the trigger on my issue M&P and my off duty M&Pc. I'm glad they decided to keep the P30 magazine format as they are relatively reasonably priced and available. Obviously the grip is the same as the P30, and for those of you that have not sampled the P30's grip, you are missing out on what is probably the most adaptable and comfortable grip on the market right now. I for one am very excited to test this pistol out.
Speaking of triggers, I asked someone that has actually fired this pistol if the trigger is like a Glock. Here is what they said;
"The trigger feels absolutely nothing like a Glock, IMO. It's short and crisp with a great reset. It is one of the best non-1911 factory triggers I've felt."
C4
teutonicpolymer
06-04-14, 11:57
Glockers easily forget the $150 they spend on grip reductions / stippling, $75 on extractor swaps, magazine - slide release mods, and of course buttplugs and non plastic sights. Love the $1000 Glock club extolling about how inexpensive their Glock is.
;)
I have had good luck with the recent production Glocks.
The only mods I have felt are necessary are sights (which most HK's need as well but have far fewer options), $5 for the grip plug, and another $5 for grip tape on gen 3's
On the Glocks you have the option to change lots of things and things are relatively affordable as well. For example the extended slide stop on the G34/G35/etc. does not work for me. Merely $8 and I can order from a plethora of reputable places a regular slide stop which works great for me. I also have aftermarket options as well. With the HK P30/P30L the slide stop does not work for me and there are not as many options. I have read that the HK45 slide stop can work, but then the cost is like 3X the Glock part cost.
At the end of the day both will probably need some mods to fit the individual but HK parts have less variety and seem to be more expensive in general.
Crow Hunter
06-04-14, 12:03
Speaking of triggers, I asked someone that has actually fired this pistol if the trigger is like a Glock. Here is what they said;
"The trigger feels absolutely nothing like a Glock, IMO. It's short and crisp with a great reset. It is one of the best non-1911 factory triggers I've felt."
C4
That actually concerns me rather than makes me happy.
I don't want a gun with a 1911'ish trigger with no safety and no means to determine if the trigger is being pulled while it is being holstered.
That actually concerns me rather than makes me happy.
I don't want a gun with a 1911'ish trigger with no safety and no means to determine if the trigger is being pulled while it is being holstered.
It has the normal Glock trigger safety and drop safeties. On top of this, its pull weight is NORTH of 5LBS. Nothing to worry about.
No gun should EVER go off being holstered as you LOOK the gun into the holster each and every time. I teach this at every pistol class I teach. Unfortunately, it is not taught enough by other instructors.
C4
I, for one, anxiously await this.
I have a glock. It is what everyone knows them to be. I've never gotten that comfy with it.
I have always preferred my P226 (1985 vintage) but am not crazy about the DA/SA trigger.
This may be "the one".
Unfortunately, it still has the G17 height and G19 length thing going on.
I agree, I would have preferred it to have a grip frame closer to a G19 or CZ P07, but you would lose some capacity doing so. I believe this pistol will be pretty much just like a PPQ, reliable, accurate, durable, trigger probably not as good out of the box, but it will probably have less muzzle flip. I have no doubt it will be a fine pistol, an I may end up trying one at some point, but right now I just don't feel that excited about it for some reason.
Yep, to date every HK polymer I have seen has been accurate, reliable -- and had a crappy trigger.
That was my experience with my compact .40
Both of my HKs had short reset trigger problems.
Oh well, no such thing as a perfect handgun.
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
Coal Dragger
06-04-14, 12:57
I'll admit the trigger on my HK45 could use some cleaning up, but it is better than the trigger on my old USP 45. At some point I'll have trigger work done to improve things.
As for the VP9 being a Glock killer, who cares? Glocks have never been a serious contender for many of us because they simply don't fit right. I for one don't find them to be comfortable to grasp and the stock triggers are worse than HK stock triggers by a mile. As others have stated many Glocks end up with several hundred dollars worth of aftermarket parts to make them tolerable to use or fully functional, making the price difference moot.
teutonicpolymer
06-04-14, 13:09
I agree, I would have preferred it to have a grip frame closer to a G19 or CZ P07, but you would lose some capacity doing so. I believe this pistol will be pretty much just like a PPQ, reliable, accurate, durable, trigger probably not as good out of the box, but it will probably have less slide velocity and muzzle flip. I have no doubt it will be a fine pistol, an I may end up trying one at some point, but right now I just don't feel that excited about it for some reason. Probably the G17 height and G19 length thing and the looks.
I sort of agree on the size thing. The dimensions are what kept me away from the PPQ versus the G19. I was hoping this would be smaller than the PPQ in width and height but it looks to be nearly the same. Was not hoping for it to be quite as short as G19 grip length, but maybe BHP grip length instead. I do not dislike the barrel length but I would not mind it being 4.5"-5". Still excited for it, but maybe not for the CCW role.
Grant,
Is it possible that these may be offered with tritium sights? I know some options for other pistols on your site have included aftermarkets.
Thanks,
cpoth
Grant,
Is it possible that these may be offered with tritium sights? I know some options for other pistols on your site have included aftermarkets.
Thanks,
cpoth
The LE sku'd guns with come with FACTORY NS's. We can also add other NS's to them as well.
C4
Mauser KAR98K
06-04-14, 13:54
Any word on a .40? I have a P30s in .40 and would like to have a BP that takes the same mags.
brickboy240
06-04-14, 14:00
I was considering picking up a Walther PPQ this summer.
key word....WAS
..until I saw this thread. Now this thing is on my radar.
-brickboy240
Any word on a .40? I have a P30s in .40 and would like to have a BP that takes the same mags.
On my price sheet, there is NO 40 chambered VP9's. So as of right now, they are not making any.
C4
RAM Engineer
06-04-14, 14:11
I'm very hopeful for this thing, but there are a few things I would want in any pistol to make me put away my Glocks.
1. Dawson-quality adjustable rear sights (durable & low profile), with fiber-optic front blade. (must have)
2. Safariland holsters for the gun, with and without a WML. (must have)
3. Extended capacity magazines, like the Glock +2 ones. I understand that someone has mag extensions for the P30 mags now. A full up factory Jet-Funnel kit would be awesome. (want, not need).
That's pretty much my entire wishlist for ANY new gun these days, as long as they are already reliable and accurate out of the box, which I expect and hope this is.
On my price sheet, there is NO 40 chambered VP9's. So as of right now, they are not making any.
C4
You mean except for those that are being evaluated by the USBP?
Crow Hunter
06-04-14, 14:26
The LE sku'd guns with come with FACTORY NS's. We can also add other NS's to them as well.
C4
Factory as in Tritium? Or factory as in glow in the dark paint?
What is the price bump?
m1a_scoutguy
06-04-14, 14:42
Glockers easily forget the $150 they spend on grip reductions / stippling, $75 on extractor swaps, magazine - slide release mods, and of course buttplugs and non plastic sights. Love the $1000 Glock club extolling about how inexpensive their Glock is.
;)
A Glock is good to go out of the box. Mods are what people choose to do to them, just like people send off their HKs for mods to triggers to get them to function smoothly with a better reset, like HK should have made them to begin with.
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
There ya have it,,good point ! I have two G-17s,,,they both have extended slide/mag releases a set of Talon Stick on grips,,one with differnt sights,one with stock,,all is fine,,not much need for anything else in my eyes. Anyways these do look interesting,,but it will be a long time till I jump if ever ! Its nice to see they are thinking about us poor bums in Commie states,,I see a 10 rd version,,,makes me at least think about it ! It is funny to watch,,lots of us just finally stopped posting over in the CZ-P07 thread,,and now H&K has a new gun and its like we found a "NEW" shinny object to look at and we all want it,,:D:D When its all said and done,,it is a H&K and they are great guns,,I have had them in the past,,but always sold them,,oh well. In the end if your LEO,,or going in harms way,,could be worth the $$$,,but for most of us,,its just a new toy to shoot/train/carry/go to IDPA matches with & we need to decide if the extra expense & manual of arms (just the mag release I think) is worth it enough to buy the gun a half dozen mags,,new holster,,etc. Time will tell,,,I'll be watching for furture updates ! :D
I agree, I would have preferred it to have a grip frame closer to a G19 or CZ P07, but you would lose some capacity doing so. I believe this pistol will be pretty much just like a PPQ, reliable, accurate, durable, trigger probably not as good out of the box, but it will probably have less slide velocity and muzzle flip. I have no doubt it will be a fine pistol, an I may end up trying one at some point, but right now I just don't feel that excited about it for some reason. Probably the G17 height and G19 length thing and the looks.
I'm curious about the height. At 5.4 it would appear to be the same as the p30 but visually it looks shorter, especially if it uses the same mag.
Though without another known gun in frame to compare with it can be hard to tell. Perhaps there is more grip length?? Same mag though.
Looking forward to a side by side.
Though I do agree. I like my full sized m&ps but I do wish they were a bit more trim. Glock 19 is just about the perfect size for me.
Factory as in Tritium? Or factory as in glow in the dark paint?
What is the price bump?
If you look at the top of the third page, it is says the VP9 will be offered in a configuration with 3 mags and tritium sights.
You mean except for those that are being evaluated by the USBP?
Don't even know about that. They are simply not on the commercial and LE pricing sheets. So that means that HK does not believe they are ready for prime time yet.
C4
Factory as in Tritium? Or factory as in glow in the dark paint?
What is the price bump?
Factory NS's with Tritium.
C4
Major kudos for getting rid of the goofy super extendo slide lever (at least for righties). And thank GOD they didn't abandon the mag release levers. I'll buy one!:D
I really liked the symmetrical(ish) long levers. :-(
-john
Very cool always wanted an HK this maybe my way into one!
May be very cool but ill never pay $1000 for a striker fired pistol.
brickboy240
06-04-14, 16:23
Anyone that thinks "Glock is good to go right out of the box" has not been around here much! LOL
The brass to face issue with 9mm Glocks and the accuracy issues with the full size M&P9 are the main reasons we get interested in things like the PPQ and yeah..this up and coming HK pistol.
...right?
bigrobbierob
06-04-14, 16:24
Grant,
Any word on if you will have 10-8 rear sights on hand to install on these if asked/purchased?
May be very cool but ill never pay $1000 for a striker fired pistol.
You should read more. About $650ish.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
Finally got the PDF to download. Looking at the trigger pull graph makes me wonder if this is a striker version of the LEM. Long take up and then a creepy release followed by long over travel. Eyeballing the graph we have about 2mm (.078") of creep which I assume is to deal with the final "cocking" of the striker and then a similar amount of overtravel. That's a lot of movement especially after the break. Paper, however, doesn't equate with reality so it's going to be a try and decide thing.
For me every HK has been 100% reliable out of the box and they have all shot better than I could. My gripes have always been the crappy triggers and lack of 3rd party support. With the ability to use P30 mags that are pretty easy to find (atleast in my AO) and P30 sights, some of that lack of support may be minimized. The sizes seem also very similar to P30 so I wonder if holsters may be interchangeable.
Also nice to hear that the wings are removable.
I don't think its a Glock killer as simply critical mass behind the Glock will keep it moving, but it may make HK a good amount of $$.
Because everyone with a Glock has issues with brass to the face...
LOL
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-04-14, 16:32
I wonder who these guns were originally developed for? For me, this feature set is perfect. If Crimson trace can cough up some M&P style laser grips is will be perfect. I will definitely be picking one up for comparison to my M&P.
Because everyone with a Glock has issues with brass to the face...
LOL
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
Because everyone with an HK has false reset.
LOL
VP9 seemes promising on paper, definitely great news especially for a die-hard HK fan as I am.
However, I think I'll pass it within the next year (approximately) because of two reasons:
1) I'll wait until gaining enough experience form the majority of the owners - in terms of accuracy, reliability and quality of production - the features that created HK's greatness so far.
2) I'm sure that at least one more year will be needed for creating the long-slide version (analogous to P30L) that would be definitely my preferrence.
Until then - I'd stick with my beloved USP.
JBecker 72
06-04-14, 16:50
Ptmccain, you sure seem to have an axe to grind about this pistol.
Nope, could care less about HK. I have been there and done that. Just trying to interject some reality into a conversation that has indulged again in Glock bashing.
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The Dumb Gun Collector
06-04-14, 17:15
Let's stay on topic gentlemen.
A Glock is good to go out of the box. Mods are what people choose to do to them, just like people send off their HKs for mods to triggers to get them to function smoothly with a better reset, like HK should have made them to begin with.
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"A Glock is good to go out of the box." Says the guy who replaced basically every OE part on his.
http://i1317.photobucket.com/albums/t637/FMJ1911/Glock34Final_zps74815328.jpg
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?152495-My-Glock-34-Modification-Journey-The-End
Both of my HKs had short reset trigger problems.
Oh well, no such thing as a perfect handgun.
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
Because everyone with a Glock has issues with brass to the face...
LOL
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Talks about his personal experiences with an HK issue, but "LOL" at those who've had issues with their Glocks implying it's not an issue.
Nope, could care less about HK. I have been there and done that. Just trying to interject some reality into a conversation that has indulged again in Glock bashing.
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
1) It's couldn't care less.
2) No one has "been there done that" with this pistol.
You know that Kool-Aid Glock guy that seems to work his way into every thread about something else? Yea, that's you.
NorthDakota
06-04-14, 17:24
Did HK wise up and design it without the Internal Locking System aka Lockout "feature"?
I think the trigger is going to make or break this gun. It'll be super comfortable like the P30 is. I am sure it'll run like a raped ape, but something about it just looks cheaper to me. If the trigger is really good (for an OE trigger), I think people will buy it. Basically the same price as a Glock with good sights or an M&P with Apex parts.
Time will tell, and I am looking forward to getting my hands on one. Probably won't be worth me getting rid of my P30 LLEM.
I foresee a 40 in the future. Similar how the P30 was a 9mm only originally.
Darned if you can't pick out the gLoCker's in this thread. The pistol isn't even in public hands yet and there are already complaints.
WickedWillis
06-04-14, 17:30
I'm a big Glock fan, that's been stated many times on this site by me. I've shot them more than most handguns in my shooting career. Hell, my EDC 90% of the year is a Glock 19, I just enjoy them and they work for me. The only thing I have replaced/upgraded on my Glocks are I added night sites, everything else is bare bones stock. That being said, I'm a big fan of HK. I only own one currently (HK45), but I will be buying the VP9 as soon as my funds allow barring something catastrophic problem with the gun. The ergo's on the P30's are second only to the PPQ IMO, and the VP9 looks to be no different. Plus they were smart to allow p30 mags to be used. This really could be the next great striker fired handgun. I was looking into the PPQ after shooting one at a local range, but then this announcement came out. I shoot HK's extremely accurately, and feel that they are one of the finest handgun manufacturers in the world. Like I said, I love Glocks, but everything about HK's is more refined and solid to me.
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-04-14, 17:44
I hope H&K comes out with some + mags (17) and maybe a 30 rounder for fun.
I think H&K's strategy is to attempt to push this gun out at a cheaper cost, in hopes that volume will make up for the lost margin. There really is no reason why the P30 should cost more or less than this. I suspect H&K will shift the rest of their product line (leave) upmarket for it to die as military and police contracts dry up.
I hope H&K comes out with some + mags (17) and maybe a 30 rounder for fun.
I think H&K's strategy is to attempt to push this gun out at a cheaper cost, in hopes that volume will make up for the lost margin. There really is no reason why the P30 should cost more or less than this. I suspect H&K will shift the rest of their product line (leave) upmarket for it to die as military and police contracts dry up.
Would be very interesting to see +capacity mags for the P30 and the new VP9 line. I just hope they are not prohibitively expensive like the ones for the USP(For factory 30 round USP9 mags I see then $100+).
If the cost of the P30 drops to that or near that of the VP9 I will be put into a hard decision of which to get so I am not sure if that is a good thing or not for my wallet since I would be hard pressed not to get one of each. If they do then it may ring the deathknell for my USP as I sell that to fund these.
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-04-14, 17:55
I agree, they should sell the P30 for this price as well. Honestly, I am not a big striker guy since I have always suspected hammer-fired guns are more reliable (certainly in terms of ignition). I am very intrigued by the idea that this gun has an excellent trigger in combination with class-leading ergonomics.
I hope H&K comes out with some + mags (17) and maybe a 30 rounder for fun.
I think H&K's strategy is to attempt to push this gun out at a cheaper cost, in hopes that volume will make up for the lost margin. There really is no reason why the P30 should cost more or less than this. I suspect H&K will shift the rest of their product line (leave) upmarket for it to die as military and police contracts dry up.
Definitely a business decision on their part, and probably why this is the VP9 and not the P30 Styker or some other P30-ish name. They don't want to shift the whole line down in price, just the one pistol.
PTMcCain changes guns whenever it'll get his YouTube account more traffic... Or when he get banned from a particular brand site usually means he's gotta change weapons, so take it with a grain of salt...
And don't believe me, it's all in the Internet to see...
Had assumed VP was an abbreviation for "volkspistole," a decidedly inauspicious name. If I didn't know better I would have thought "volks" was the German word for crap, based on its history as a prefix: the volkspistole (WWII), the volkssturmgewehr, the Volkswagen, the volksjager, and the VP70. However, it looks like H&K are going to break with that tradition in this case.
Is that you G3K?
I'm very excited to see this finally hit the market. The specs look promising, and I have no doubt that it will be typical HK quality. I hope they offer this in .45 at some point.
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I hope it's the killer I know HK is capable of building. If it has a good trigger it will be a game changer for sure.
PTMcCain changes guns whenever it'll get his YouTube account more traffic... Or when he get banned from a particular brand site usually means he's gotta change weapons, so take it with a grain of salt...
And don't believe me, it's all in the Internet to see...
Yea, I almost brought that up. He was on HKPro not too long ago singing praises to the MK23 and USP 9 Expert or something. Now, HKs suck all of the sudden. Anyway, enough with him.
"trbmv" on HKPro superimposed a VP9 over a P30. You can see the top of the back end of the grip sits much tighter to the slide, and the slide itself is lower.
http://i.imgur.com/QraiaWO.jpg
ETA - Compared to the PPQ:
http://i.imgur.com/EuHow7E.jpg
PTMcCain changes guns whenever it'll get his YouTube account more traffic... Or when he get banned from a particular brand site usually means he's gotta change weapons, so take it with a grain of salt...
And don't believe me, it's all in the Internet to see...
Bingo.
The pics Talon posted are very interesting...So, It looks like it's very close to a PPQ...Ok, I've already got a PPQ (early version with release levers) this helps me answer a question I had in a earlier post, as to whether I should buy one or not.. For right now, I think I'll wait and see how they do, and see just how good the triggers are, or are not. Since I already know what Grant can do with a P-07/09 trigger, and that to me is a known quantity, I'll probably go that way, and buy a P-09 to go with my P-07, and have Grant do some work on both. Talon, thanks for the pics, Those helped me out.
Sound like sales reps are making their rounds with samples, someone here just might get lucky and have an opportunity to fondle one.
SeriousStudent
06-04-14, 21:09
Let talk about the pistol, gentlemen.
Thank you.
From a guy at HKPro,
"While I was shooting at my LGS I lucked out and got to handle one of these new beauties today when the HK sales rep came in to take orders. Trigger is simply amazing, right up there with the Walther PPQ."
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j341/filmfan81/10352197_732703896779679_2788634668357931692_n_zpsa9d16339.jpg
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/199909-one-thread-only-hk-striker-fired-pistol-41.html#post1521143
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-04-14, 21:48
A few reasons to give this gun a look....
1. HK quality. If this gun is a POS, it will be a first from this company. H&K spent 4 years developing thing gun, I suspect it is pretty much done. I seriously doubt this gun will suffer from weird jams, BTF, busted strikers, etc. As Ken Hackathorn said, H&K is an engineering firm that makes firearms. Most gun companies are arms companies that hire an engineer or two.
3. HK reliability. H&K guns, say what you will, have always been industry leaders in raw reliability and durability.
2. Ergonomics. The H&K grip, long available in the P30, is either the best, or one of the best in the business.
3. Truly Ambidextrous. No swapping parts, learning exotic manipulations, etc, the gun is flat-out ambi.
4. Proven magazine. This magazine has been puttering around in one form or another since the mid 90s when the HK USP compact came out. True, that was a 13 rounder, but this is the same design. The 15 rounder has been around since 2006 and is readily available. Also, no worrying about whether this or that mag works in the gun. If H&K had bowed to pressure and swapped to a luger/colt mag button this mag continuity would have been lost (and you would have spent a lot of time waiting on H&K to make magazines).
5. Apparently the gun has an excellent trigger. Limited reports in the field seem to indicate this isn't hyperbole. The H&K plastic guns have long had a reputation for sub-par triggers. On the DA/SA this has never been an issue for me since I prefer C&L and H&K's have fine SA triggers (I always viewed DA as a restrike mode). The LEM was always weird but very usable. I have always thought the Glock trigger was EXTREMELY overrated and the PPQ has tempted me many times. In fact the recent STEYR trigger lured me into purchasing an example that I ended up dumping due to unreliability.
6. It appears that H&K has recontoured the grip to allow your hand to grip higher on the frame, basically the same idea as the beavertail mod on the 1911. This lowers the effective (DREADED) bore/axis.
7. Rational cost. This gun looks to cost around $125-150 more than a Glock/Walther and M&P. If H&K QC and design remain at historical levels, this is a fair premium.
All in all it appears this gun combines the traditional engineering prowess of H&K with ergonomic and shoot ability concessions that have often eluded modern H&Ks. This appears to be the potential class leader.
I hope they have shortened the trigger reset. It has always been way to long... I am looking forward to getting my hands on one.
I hope they have shortened the trigger reset. It has always been way to long... I am looking forward to getting my hands on one.
I believe it's listed as .12, and I think I read the lem v1 is .25. The ppq is 1/10.
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The aforementioned gentleman over at HKPro apparently heard from the rep at his shop that .40 and .45 versions are due next year--any confirmation or other info on this?
Why couldn't this have come out six months ago!?! I would have forgone the P30 and dove straight into one of these. I love the higher cut grip and lower bore axis. Not that the 9mm is anything to control but every little bit helps.
What is up with all the HK trigger bashing? They design their guns to the specifications of the military and law enforcement agencies they are building these for. It's not like they can't make a good trigger, look at the USP tacticals with match triggers, very nice. HK has always catered to their main market which we all know is not the civilian one. They may have a long trigger pull paired with a long reset but they are reliable and consistent. Haters gonna hate I guess.
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-04-14, 22:59
Honestly, a lot of people have grown up on Glock triggers and perceive them as the standard or "good" trigger. I remember when they came out, the general consensus was that they sucked. Some hard work back in the 80s-90s by Karl Walter and a few other guys and now the Glock is the standard. But there can be no doubt, the H&K DA/SA trigger isn't as good as the industry average. Especially the DA. But absolutely, H&K designed these guns to spec for people who had VERY definite ideas about trigger weight, over-travel, etc. Anybody who has spent time with a P9s target knows that H&K has had the ability to design technically perfect triggers since before most of us were born.
A few reasons to give this gun a look....
1. HK quality. If this gun is a POS, it will be a first from this company. H&K spent 4 years developing thing gun, I suspect it is pretty much done. I seriously doubt this gun will suffer from weird jams, BTF, busted strikers, etc. As Ken Hackathorn said, H&K is an engineering firm that makes firearms. Most gun companies are arms companies that hire an engineer or two.
3. HK reliability. H&K guns, say what you will, have always been industry leaders in raw reliability and durability.
2. Ergonomics. The H&K grip, long available in the P30, is either the best, or one of the best in the business.
3. Truly Ambidextrous. No swapping parts, learning exotic manipulations, etc, the gun is flat-out ambi.
4. Proven magazine. This magazine has been puttering around in one form or another since the mid 90s when the HK USP compact came out. True, that was a 13 rounder, but this is the same design. The 15 rounder has been around since 2006 and is readily available. Also, no worrying about whether this or that mag works in the gun. If H&K had bowed to pressure and swapped to a luger/colt mag button this mag continuity would have been lost (and you would have spent a lot of time waiting on H&K to make magazines).
5. Apparently the gun has an excellent trigger. Limited reports in the field seem to indicate this isn't hyperbole. The H&K plastic guns have long had a reputation for sub-par triggers. On the DA/SA this has never been an issue for me since I prefer C&L and H&K's have fine SA triggers (I always viewed DA as a restrike mode). The LEM was always weird but very usable. I have always thought the Glock trigger was EXTREMELY overrated and the PPQ has tempted me many times. In fact the recent STEYR trigger lured me into purchasing an example that I ended up dumping due to unreliability.
6. It appears that H&K has recontoured the grip to allow your hand to grip higher on the frame, basically the same idea as the beavertail mod on the 1911. This lowers the effective (DREADED) bore/axis.
7. Rational cost. This gun looks to cost around $125-150 more than a Glock/Walther and M&P. If H&K QC and design remain at historical levels, this is a fair premium.
All in all it appears this gun combines the traditional engineering prowess of H&K with ergonomic and shoot ability concessions that have often eluded modern H&Ks. This appears to be the potential class leader.
Not as if I wasn't already sold and added this to my wish list, but then go and post all that, and now its creeping up further on my list.
Seriously, I really like my P30L, but this looks like something I would shoot more often, and carry some.
6. It appears that H&K has recontoured the grip to allow your hand to grip higher on the frame, basically the same idea as the beavertail mod on the 1911. This lowers the effective (DREADED) bore/axis.
Not always. Beavertails leave no positional options, and there is at least one known case where non beavertail gun allows for a higher grip that the same model with a beavertail.
This is how I grip P30. Takes all that talk about flip, recoil etc and throws it right out of the window. Incidentally, better Glock shooters I've met do the same. The deeper a "cutout", the harder it is to achieve, which is why I am not very excited about a new contour.
26372
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-04-14, 23:50
It appears from the overlay that this will allow me to get higher up on this gun vs the p30. We shall just have to see.
Withholding the judgment until live eval. If I held P30 any higher, I'd get a slide bite. VP9 may not need this; we'll see soon.
Grand58742
06-05-14, 00:27
They currently have HK P30 15 rd 9mm mags here : www.hkspecialiststore.com
and here : http://lanbosarmory.com
As does Grant:
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=234316S
Neither of your links have them in stock however. And a shameless plug for G&R.
I'm all over it. I'll buy a LE sku model as soon as Grant lets me.
Grand58742
06-05-14, 00:35
Yea, I almost brought that up. He was on HKPro not too long ago singing praises to the MK23 and USP 9 Expert or something. Now, HKs suck all of the sudden. Anyway, enough with him.
"trbmv" on HKPro superimposed a VP9 over a P30. You can see the top of the back end of the grip sits much tighter to the slide, and the slide itself is lower.
http://i.imgur.com/QraiaWO.jpg
ETA - Compared to the PPQ:
http://i.imgur.com/EuHow7E.jpg
Doesn't look like the holsters will be compatible then. The VP9 would fit a bit looser in P30 holsters from the looks of it.
But I am digging that new trigger. One thing I could never get over on the P30 was the fact the bottom of my finger kept sweeping the trigger guard. I could have learned to live with it, but it was just annoying and distracting. However, with a different angle on the trigger, that problem might be solved (for me at least). It's certainly going to be worth a look.
And a price tag in the $600s? A factory new H&K in the $600s? Do I need to buy Armageddon insurance?
I just checked www.hkspecialiststore.com and they show 53 HK P30 15 rd 9mm mags in stock at $36.79 ea. They were $34.99 this time yesterday.
1. Look at the commercial pricing of quality ignition parts (hammer, sear, disco) vs pricing of a striker group. Add good quality hammer struts. I can see hammer fired being a bit more expensive both to produce and R&D.
Lower price may also be a business decision, considering intended market.
3. I surely hope so.
They need a lot of volume, and are probably sacrificing virgins in hope of a sh*t-ton of LE contracts. They'll need a .40 stat if they want to catch any of the DHS pie.
I love my M&Ps but I am really excited about this.
ETA,
Did anyone else notice the colors used to depict the two leading brand polymer pistols in the trigger chart? Black and blue would seem pretty telling that they are Glock and sw reading between the lines.
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I love my M&Ps but I am really excited about this.
ETA,
Did anyone else notice the colors used to depict the two leading brand polymer pistols in the trigger chart? Black and blue would seem pretty telling that they are Glock and sw reading between the lines.
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How does blue represent s&w?
Doesn't look like the holsters will be compatible then. The VP9 would fit a bit looser in P30 holsters from the looks of it.
Yea. I can almost guarantee it won't fit in my P30's Raven. Those things are molded so tight I can almost read the HK logo...:p
How does blue represent s&w?
Because their logo is blue.......?
http://i.imgur.com/EuHow7E.jpg[/IMG
The problem is I can't tell which gun is which... the VP9 slide is visible, and the PPQ frame.
So the PPQ has a lower bore axis?
Not always. Beavertails leave no positional options, and there is at least one known case where non beavertail gun allows for a higher grip that the same model with a beavertail.
This is how I grip P30. Takes all that talk about flip, recoil etc and throws it right out of the window. Incidentally, better Glock shooters I've met do the same. The deeper a "cutout", the harder it is to achieve, which is why I am not very excited about a new contour.
26372 I flag my thumb on Glocks. Not really sure what you mean by it being harder to do the deeper the cut, since Glocks are pretty deep. It is however more difficult with 1911s though. On SIGs it's virtually impossible.
Phillygunguy
06-05-14, 07:50
Deleted
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Phillygunguy
06-05-14, 07:52
I'm psyched I have a p30 lem but not a fan of the triggers long pretravel Hopefully this trigger will be a big improvement I may sell my PPQ for this one. Of course I gotta see some reviews first
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The problem is I can't tell which gun is which... the VP9 slide is visible, and the PPQ frame.
So the PPQ has a lower bore axis?
I flag my thumb on Glocks. Not really sure what you mean by it being harder to do the deeper the cut, since Glocks are pretty deep. It is however more difficult with 1911s though. On SIGs it's virtually impossible.
I've been looking at that pic as well, I'm figuring they're pretty close to the same, The Hk having some slight differences in the frame. and it looks as if it has a slightly higher bore axis. Which brings me to my question.. Assuming these pics are correct, What exactly does the HK offer over the PPQ? Trigger pull as reported by one person at HKpro who actually handled one said that it was almost as good as a PPQ, Not trying to start a shit storm, but honestly wondering what the perceived difference is..
I flag my thumb on Glocks. Not really sure what you mean by it being harder to do the deeper the cut, since Glocks are pretty deep. It is however more difficult with 1911s though. On SIGs it's virtually impossible.
Not sure what flagging of a thumb means, bud. The photo I posted intended to show how high a web of my hand was on the slide, practically under the hammer slot.
Sigs, btw, are some of those guns where the beavertail pushes the hand lower, while same models without it allow for a higher grip. Glock's are pretty deep, yes. I find that humps on Glocks and large backstraps of P30 are helpful in overcoming it.
What exactly does the HK offer over the PPQ?.
We won't know until we shot and handled it, will we? It may have a better trigger, it may have different recoil impulse, it may flip differently, maybe the firing pin is accessible for us appendix shooters, maybe 27 grip combos will help someone, maybe trigger reach and break positions will be different, etc.
To each his own. I have been satisfied with Glock reliability and often impressed by Glock accuracy (particularly for the price point) with even cheap ammo.
It is mathematically impossible to be more reliable than my G26, four G19s, and two G17s but it may edge them out in 25 yard grouping precision (mine are 2-3" guns with most loads), as all but the 26 are Gen 3's which I like the triggers on a little more. It should be close to on par to Gen 4 G17s, several of which I've seen go under 2" for 5 shots. But another accurate and reliable pistol is pretty nice.
It's especially interesting to hear about the qualities of the trigger pull. Sounds pretty nice in that department.
[QUOTE=Greg Bell;1927243]Honestly, a lot of people have grown up on Glock triggers and perceive them as the standard or "good" trigger. I remember when they came out, the general consensus was that they sucked. QUOTE]
Quoted for Truth. And back in that day it wasn't just not a great trigger. It was billed as a god-awful abomination. That was my opinion in my SA auto days. Now I like them quite a bit and shoot them as well as anything until I hit 50 yards but that evolution of standards is pretty funny/interesting.
We won't know until we shot and handled it, will we? It may have a better trigger, it may have different recoil impulse, it may flip differently, maybe the firing pin is accessible for us appendix shooters, maybe 27 grip combos will help someone, maybe trigger reach and break positions will be different, etc.
You are right. We don't know. What we do know though is that HK barrels are the only ones where you can lodge a bullet in the barrel and then shoot it out and the barrel will survive.
C4
Quoted for Truth. And back in that day it wasn't just not a great trigger. It was billed as a god-awful abomination. That was my opinion in my SA auto days. Now I like them quite a bit and shoot them as well as anything until I hit 50 yards but that evolution of standards is pretty funny/interesting.
Compared to an SA trigger, everything sucks! This is why (if I was king), I wouldn't allow people to SA triggers UNTIL they learned to shoot a DA or striker fired trigger well.
You are right on the money though. Funny how things change. What was considered "crap" is now considered "the standard."
C4
You are right. We don't know. What we do know though is that HK barrels are the only ones where you can lodge a bullet in the barrel and then shoot it out and the barrel will survive.
C4
It is also the only barrel that its manufacturer will not warranty if Blazer ammo is used.
It is also the only barrel that its manufacturer will not warranty if Blazer ammo is used.
LOL, I wouldn't fault them for that.
C4
I've been looking at that pic as well, I'm figuring they're pretty close to the same, The Hk having some slight differences in the frame. and it looks as if it has a slightly higher bore axis. Which brings me to my question.. Assuming these pics are correct, What exactly does the HK offer over the PPQ? Trigger pull as reported by one person at HKpro who actually handled one said that it was almost as good as a PPQ, Not trying to start a shit storm, but honestly wondering what the perceived difference is..
IMHO, I don't think the differences between the two will be much at all, and nothing to write home about. I think the HK will have less muzzle flip than the PPQ while their reliability, accuracy will be pretty much a dead heat. Durability wise, its to early tell, but I would go with the HK. Bragging rights, HK= Lexus and Walther= Camry. It just like a new restaurant in town, everyone wants to try it. Word has it the foods great but the prices are a little steep. They say next year there is one opening named Gen 5 . Seriously, I believe most of the perceived differences between these two will be just in the persons head, but if it gives you confidence, that can be a big plus. One more thing, if you plan on trying the new HK pistol in the future, I would be getting your extra mags NOW.
What exactly does the HK offer over the PPQ?
It offers HK durability and reliability. Walther is good pistol, but not that good. Of course not everyone need or want this level of durability and reliability.
I love my P30 / Light LEM, but for $600 I'm pretty sure I'll have to try a VP9.
IMHO, I don't think the differences between the two will be much at all, and nothing to write home about. I think the HK will have less muzzle flip than the PPQ while their reliability, accuracy will be pretty much a dead heat. Durability wise, its to early tell, but I would go with the HK. Bragging rights, HK= Lexus and Walther= Camry. It just like a new restaurant in town, everyone wants to try it. Word has it the foods great but the prices are a little steep. They say next year there is one opening named Gen 5 . Seriously, I believe most of the perceived differences between these two will be just in the persons head, but if it gives you confidence, that can be a big plus. One more thing, if you plan on trying the new HK pistol in the future, I would be getting your extra mags NOW.
Well, I already have a PPQ, (M1) and had a p-30 light LEM, and believe me, I like HK's (Have 4 of 'em) But, the P-30 and I just didn't get along, and I'm not seeing enough difference here to justify trying another. As I said earlier, I've fooling around with a CZ P-07, and it works much better for me than the P-30 ever did.. For now, I'll stick with it.. BTW, I have 5 brand new P-30 mags, and 1 slightly used one that may be up for sale...
PatrioticDisorder
06-05-14, 09:54
How does blue represent s&w?
Probably a guess, it was my guess as well. Black line on the graph looked to represent a mushy trigger (glovk) while M&P trigger is a little heavier than Glock trigger (hence blue), but we really don't know for sure.
Well, I already have a PPQ, (M1) and had a p-30 light LEM, and believe me, I like HK's (Have 4 of 'em) But, the P-30 and I just didn't get along, and I'm not seeing enough difference here to justify trying another. As I said earlier, I've fooling around with a CZ P-07, and it works much better for me than the P-30 ever did.. For now, I'll stick with it.. BTW, I have 5 brand new P-30 mags, and 1 slightly used one that may be up for sale...
When they come out, you could always try one at an indoor range to help you decide if you want to pull the trigger on one. I would get any extra mags you want now before the possibility of speculators or another big shooting drive the mag prices up. Could you shoot your CZ P07 better than shooting your P30 single action only ?
Crow Hunter
06-05-14, 10:14
When they come out, you could always try one at an indoor range to help you decide if you want to pull the trigger on one. I would get any extra mags you want now before the possibility of speculators or another big shooting drive the mag prices up. Could you shoot your CZ P07 better than shooting your P30 single action only ?
If it becomes popular enough that is.
In my area it is a once in a blue moon that you even see a HK for sale never for rent and fuggedabout CZ. They don't even have CZ rifles in my neck of the woods.
Maybe it will be popular enough that it will be in the case right next to Glock, M&P and Ruger. That is pretty much 85% of what is in most of our local shops. With a smattering of Beretta, Sig and Taurus depending on the clientele the store is catering too.
Glock is the high end at a few stores and Glock is the low end at a few other stores.;) But almost none of them have Walther or HK.
montrala, I've owned 5 P30 9mm's & 7 Walther PPQ 9mm's. Of the several thousands of rounds I've put through these pistols, I've had only 3 malfunctions, all with the P30's. You can read about the many malfunctions & various problems folks have had with the P30 & many other HK handguns on HK Forums, as you can also read of malfunctions with every other brand including Walther on the many other forums. From my experience the Walther PPQ is every bit as reliable as the HK P30, & as far as durability goes the PPQ is basically a P99, & there are P99's in use with round counts of 100,000 and greater. I like & own several HK's, & am not a fan boy of any brand, but give Walther credit, the P99 PPQ series is every bit as good as the HK P30.
When they come out, you could always try one at an indoor range to help you decide if you want to pull the trigger on one. I would get any extra mags you want now before the possibility of speculators or another big shooting drive the mag prices up. Could you shoot your CZ P07 better than shooting your P30 single action only ?
Yeah, in SA I can shoot the CZ better..Also shoot it better in DA compared to the P-30's light LEM.. Nothing against this new pistol, I'm glad HK brought it out. But for me, the P-30 just didn't work, and I doubt this would be much different.
Another great reason to use proven P30 mags is if in the future a organization that uses P30s wants to go to a striker fired pistol, now they could go VP9 and mags aren't an issue.
LOL, I wouldn't fault them for that.
C4
Considering an excellent track record of Blazer ammo with tens of thousands of users, and personally shooting tens of thousands of rounds of it through different guns, I would. It is actually better than their brass variant, and now costs more. Surely a wonder barrel that can shoot out a squib without ill effects should be able to handle aluminum casings.
An irony in this is that Blazer comprised a bulk of ammo in a 90+K ToddG's test of P30, that same test that HK has no problem using in advertising the VP9.
I can't wait to see this when it finally ships out to the gunshop. However, I'll be bracing myself when I see the cost of new mags.
Bragging rights, HK= Lexus and Walther= Camry.
Because James Bond is well known for driving Camry's? :confused:
crazymoose
06-05-14, 11:08
It offers HK durability and reliability. Walther is good pistol, but not that good. Of course not everyone need or want this level of durability and reliability.
Granted, it's a sample size of one, but are people forgetting that the Pistol-Training.com P30 had two pretty major parts failures before it hit the 40,000 round mark? I'm not knocking HK at all, but I do believe that the superiority of their design and craftsmanship is often overstated.
Considering an excellent track record of Blazer ammo with tens of thousands of users, and personally shooting tens of thousands of rounds of it through different guns, I would. It is actually better than their brass variant, and now costs more. Surely a wonder barrel that can shoot out a squib without ill effects should be able to handle aluminum casings.
An irony in this is that Blazer comprised a bulk of ammo in a 90+K ToddG's test of P30, that same test that HK has no problem using in advertising the VP9.
Sorry, I have had issues with both of their lines and witness issues in classes with it. So at best I would consider it a crap shoot. I have not shot it some years though so maybe it is better.
My guess is that HK saw some issues with that ammo in their guns so to make that statement.
C4
Sorry, I have had issues with both of their lines and witness issues in classes with it. So at best I would consider it a crap shoot. I have not shot it some years though so maybe it is better.
My guess is that HK saw some issues with that ammo in their guns so to make that statement.
C4
The only issues I've had was occasional bullet setback in 230 gr 45. As far as functioning, I've never had a cycling malfunction with it, once. I've had a couple of light strikes with a Glock, out of 15K. My 1911s has shot thousands of it without problems, and so did the P30 until I ran out of this ammo.
HK, like most of manufacturers, write "no aluminum, steel or +P" in their booklets, or it is discouraged, or something to this extent. However, I don't know if any other manufacturer has ever enforced it, other than them.
The only issues I've had was occasional bullet setback in 230 gr 45. As far as functioning, I've never had a cycling malfunction with it, once. I've had a couple of light strikes with a Glock, out of 15K. My 1911s has shot thousands of it without problems, and so did the P30 until I ran out of this ammo.
HK, like most of manufacturers, write "no aluminum, steel or +P" in their booklets, or it is discouraged, or something to this extent. However, I don't know if any other manufacturer has ever enforced it, other than them.
Most companies typically experience a problem with a certain type of ammo before advising against it. So I generally assume that they have run into a problem at some point.
Looking around the net, I see people experiencing problems with this ammo. So I think it is a case by case kind of deal. If your gun eats it and you are ok with the accuracy, I would say drive on!
C4
montrala, I've owned 5 P30 9mm's & 7 Walther PPQ 9mm's.
Not to derail but I have to ask why one would own seven of the same gun?
Not to derail but I have to ask why one would own seven of the same gun?
Collector? Not a bad idea to have a training gun and a carry gun (especially if you shoot a lot).
I buy lots of the same guns (if they are collectable).
C4
I can't wait to see this when it finally ships out to the gunshop. However, I'll be bracing myself when I see the cost of new mags.
Right now the mags are going for around $35 and up. Like gasoline and many other things these days prices usually are going up.
Not that big of deal, but I would have liked to seen the new HK pistol come in two sizes , one the size of the G17 and one the size of the G19.
G17 is 8.03 L X 5.43 H
G19 is 7.28 L X 4.99 H
HK VP is 7.34 L X 5.41 H
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-05-14, 12:26
Well, I loved the original PPQ, but the new grip and mag release is a mess--as was the mag situation. yMMV.
Crow Hunter
06-05-14, 12:28
Not to derail but I have to ask why one would own seven of the same gun?
I actually have 5 Glock 19s.
One is my bedside gun and lives in the night stand.
One is my training gun and lives in my range bag.
One is my wife's sometimes CCW and mostly lives in the car.
One is my CCW.
One is a backup and lives in the safe.
I also have a G23 with a .357 barrel that I use when I find a deal on .40 or .357 but it usually has a AA conversion on it. So I "technically" have 6 of the same frame size.
That is one of the things that I factor in when I am looking to move to a different gun than Glock.
I like to have multiple copies along with spare parts, knowledge to keep them running and lots of extra magazines. So a wholesale switch to a VP9 or a P2000 or something else is quite an undertaking.:o
Now for just a "fun gun", I would just have one of those.
I shoot a lot, & buy several of the models I like. Two of the PPQ's were purchased for my son.
MichaelVain
06-05-14, 14:35
I have had terrible luck with aluminum cased Blazers to the point where I will never buy it or shoot it again. The bullet set back was a big issue for me in the case that I bought. I had many failures to extract on my Mk23 with the blazers as well as FTF because the bullet would push into the case to the point where the rim of the case would jam on the feed ramp. I don't doubt that others have had good experiences, but in my experience, I'd have issues every other mag or so.
I'm looking forward to the VP9. If they can get the trigger to approximate the P7, I'd be very happy. I don't really like Glock triggers. I've had considerable time behind a friend's Ruger SR9 and that trigger is not to my liking either. Also, yes, HK is very capable of making a great striker fired trigger as anyone with a P9S can tell you.
turnburglar
06-05-14, 15:23
This gun would be MY glock killer if it was g19 sized. The ONLY reason I own a 19 is because I feel it's the perfect balance of grip size, concealability, and capacity. As far as comfort, accuracy and reliability are concerned I feel MANY manufacturers beat out the glock.
Am I the only person in the world that can't comfortably hold a Glock 19?
PatrioticDisorder
06-05-14, 16:13
Am I the only person in the world that can't comfortably hold a Glock 19?
Far from it...
Dos Cylindros
06-05-14, 17:43
Am I the only person in the world that can't comfortably hold a Glock 19?
Nope, I detest the Glock 19/23 size guns. The only Glock models that are tolerable to me (and I use that pharse very lightly) are the G17/22. Even those are less than ideal for me.
wildcard600
06-05-14, 17:51
Nope, I detest the Glock 19/23 size guns. The only Glock models that are tolerable to me (and I use that pharse very lightly) are the G17/22. Even those are less than ideal for me.
same here. for me the grip angle is all wrong, very lugerish in my opinion and shares the same issue with rugers .22 pistols in that style.
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-05-14, 18:25
I hope somebody makes a holder quick. Raven or Bladetach preferably.
I hope somebody makes a holder quick. Raven or Bladetach preferably.
Likewise, I checked the Raven site twice today lol.
paperchasin
06-05-14, 18:48
I hope somebody makes a holder quick. Raven or Bladetach preferably.
It was mentioned on HKPro that the HK rep said that P30 holsters should work with the VP9.
It was mentioned on HKPro that the HK rep said that P30 holsters should work with the VP9.
I read that as well, if you look at the image overlays on page 9 of this thread its hard to see how that could be possible. I hope I'm wrong.
I literally never thought the day would come when HK would make a striker fired pistol. They should of did this 10 years ago, they would have made a shit ton of money. I have no doubt that they will execute it very well. If it's really going to be selling for around 600, they won't be able to make them fast enough.
NorthDakota
06-05-14, 21:35
Sorry to bring up again but didn't get confirmation on if the lockout system is retained or hopefully removed. Anyone?
I literally never thought the day would come when HK would make a striker fired pistol. They should of did this 10 years ago, they would have made a shit ton of money. I have no doubt that they will execute it very well. If it's really going to be selling for around 600, they won't be able to make them fast enough.
HK made a striker fired pistol 45 years ago...
HK made a striker fired pistol 45 years ago...
You know what I meant.
Sorry to bring up again but didn't get confirmation on if the lockout system is retained or hopefully removed. Anyone?
I have no idea and frankly it matters little to me. I own and shoot, regularly, a large number of HK and other pistols, with and without lockout devices and never once have I locked one and never once has it been a problem. The presence, or not, isn't even factored into the purchase decision. I do know of a very few incidents / reports of S&W wheel guns that have had them fail and lockup.
I have yet to hear of an HK pistol locking up from a lockout device failure. I am certain someone would have complained about it loudly if it happened. There certainly is more than enough trigger and pistol / magazine cost whining. Something as serious as a locked up pistol, due to a failed lockout device, would almost certainly send every gLoCker into convulsions of joy and frankly they'd be annoyingly all over that topic.
Someone may know the answer for this pistol, however, I suspect the lack of an answer means most others experience mirrors mine with HK. YMMV IMBFOS
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-05-14, 22:24
Was the P9 striker fired? There was a hammer in there or have I been eating cookies from Colorado?
I have yet to hear of an HK pistol locking up from a lockout device failure
And you won't. Internet crap.
wildcard600
06-05-14, 22:31
Was the P9 striker fired? There was a hammer in there or have I been eating cookies from Colorado?
P9 had an internal hammer.
the VP70 was the striker gun in case anyone was wondering.
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-05-14, 23:11
I am an idiot. I read that as "Striker fired .45" for some reason.
I've been looking at that pic as well, I'm figuring they're pretty close to the same, The Hk having some slight differences in the frame. and it looks as if it has a slightly higher bore axis. Which brings me to my question.. Assuming these pics are correct, What exactly does the HK offer over the PPQ? Trigger pull as reported by one person at HKpro who actually handled one said that it was almost as good as a PPQ, Not trying to start a shit storm, but honestly wondering what the perceived difference is..
I sold my M1 PPQ. Great pistol and I could shoot it better than my Glock, but I too frequently would inadvertently engage the slide release (southpaw) preventing it from locking back on an empty magazine. I kinda like to know when I am out of ammo. Hope the VP9 is more friendly to my grip.
Granted, it's a sample size of one, but are people forgetting that the Pistol-Training.com P30 had two pretty major parts failures before it hit the 40,000 round mark? I'm not knocking HK at all, but I do believe that the superiority of their design and craftsmanship is often overstated.
I'm more concerned with pistols that loose sights just from carrying it around in holster, have barrel shoot smooth in just 50K rounds, have barrel feed ramp and lug breaking from the barrel at random numbers of rounds, have trigger system failures that puts pistol out of use, have problem with primers on duty ammo, have back piece and firing pin blown back injuring shooter. On the other hand I know one, rental P99 that went 50K rounds without serious problems. What I wrote, Walthers are good - just not that good in durability and reliability department as HKs.
Does it mean HK do not have stoppage at all? No. I had my .40 Expert FTE twice in 10K rounds (once it was split case, second it was limp wristing on weak hand shooting with gun tilted to the side), had my P2000 jam tottaly on me, when I pushed slide realease lever out of it's place during shooting, had my P30L choke on Barnaul steel cased ammo and rip of rim from alu cased Blaser when it was new, had it also few times to FTF with worn out, light hammer spring, had my P2000SK FTE steel cased S&B ammo, because I did not clean extractor channel and back portion for 8 years allowing my sweat to do it's job there. I also seen USP with broken firing pin (did not work after that), Expert with broken slide at breechface (still shooting) and Expert with broken match sear spring (still working as DAO).
Still I believe HK has edge over Walther in durability and reliability. Part of it comes from amount design and testing, part from materials and technologies used in manufacture, part from how Quality Assurance is employed. But as I wrote before - not everybody needs that so no reason to pay for something that is not needed. Also take in mind that stating "X is better than Y in Z department" does not equal to stating "Y is crap and X is end of history".
NorthDakota
06-06-14, 08:55
I have no idea and frankly it matters little to me. I own and shoot, regularly, a large number of HK and other pistols, with and without lockout devices and never once have I locked one and never once has it been a problem. The presence, or not, isn't even factored into the purchase decision. I do know of a very few incidents / reports of S&W wheel guns that have had them fail and lockup.
I have yet to hear of an HK pistol locking up from a lockout device failure. I am certain someone would have complained about it loudly if it happened. There certainly is more than enough trigger and pistol / magazine cost whining. Something as serious as a locked up pistol, due to a failed lockout device, would almost certainly send every gLoCker into convulsions of joy and frankly they'd be annoyingly all over that topic.
Someone may know the answer for this pistol, however, I suspect the lack of an answer means most others experience mirrors mine with HK. YMMV IMBFOS
Thanks for the reply.
I am hoping HK took the opportunity to remove the useless feature. I won’t own a firearm with any “lockout”, “internal locking system” or whatever they are called. It is a matter of principle. Given HK’s recent catering to US civilian market, it would be nice to see this removed or at least an option.
I would be willing to bet if it were an option, most would opt out of having it in theirs.
In the scheme of things, HK will likely sell many.
If I can get confirmation it doesn’t have a lockout, I’ll be ordering one from my LGS. I figured if it won’t fit my large hands, it will probably fit my wife or kid’s hands. The P30 certainly has a pleasant grip.
I do regret letting go of an HK USP in .45 years ago. It was a pre-lock model:(
Grand58742
06-06-14, 10:20
I know folks have been screaming about it for years, but I'm wondering if H&K didn't finally come out with a new striker fired pistol around the same time a replacement competition is coming up for the new USAF handgun. The same could be said about Sig as well with the 320. I don't know if the RFP has hit FedBizOps yet, but it would seem the overall size of the VP9 would probably be able to fit the role in replacing both the M9 and M11 with a single platform.
An 80,000 pistol contract is pretty lucrative and would give a company like H&K a reason to "break the mold" away from their traditional DA/SA models and toss in a striker fired pistol to compete. Just tossing it out for conversation.
Thanks for the reply.
I am hoping HK took the opportunity to remove the useless feature. I won’t own a firearm with any “lockout”, “internal locking system” or whatever they are called. It is a matter of principle.
I had same reservations in the past. Now, years after, I found them completely baseless. Failure to fire from a lock out device problem is literally unheard of in HKs.
That said, I don't know how they can stick in a lock out device on a striker pistol that doesn't have a mainspring or its housing.
RAM Engineer
06-06-14, 13:00
I had same reservations in the past. Now, years after, I found them completely baseless. Failure to fire from a lock out device problem is literally unheard of in HKs.
That said, I don't know how they can stick in a lock out device on a striker pistol that doesn't have a mainspring or its housing.
It would have to be in the side of the receiver, like the Steyrs and M&Ps.
I'm buying one the first opportunity I get. Time to stock up non P30 mags.
Doesn't it take P30 mags?
Yep. It's probably a typo. Prob meant to say "time to stock up on P30 mags".
-john
Yes it does, I think he meant "up on" not "up non."
Yes it does, I think he meant "up on" not "up non."
I think you guys are right. I produce enough typos that I should be able to make sense of other people's typos.
There was some strange language on the last page of the HK brochure regarding ammunition: "Tested with wide variety of ammunition, U.S. VP9 variant certified with 3.1 Impulse, European VP9 variant with 2.6 Impulse."
What does all that mean about impulse? Thanks.
Dealer pro-tip: This gun is fairly cheap. Like PPQ cheap.
Also saw this mini-review online. Don't know if it's been posted yet.
http://www.romeotangobravo.net/2014/06/hk-vp9-first-impressions.html
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