Extractor spring / insert / ring - what is the latest wisdom?

[gjj]

I have read through several of the huge posts on this topic. I purchased the extractor upgrade kit (crane o-ring, HD extractor spring, black insert).

I found it impossible install all these simultaneously in my bolt. So, I tried just using the HD spring and black insert. It was still difficult to get the bolt reassembled without tools. My bolt had problems closing on rounds sometime. I was told that it would be fine after it was broken in. I want something that works from the beginning so I finally went to just the standard spring and black insert.

What is the current wisdom on what works best for 16" carbines (some of the threads are old)?

Should I be looking at adding a d-fender instead?

You can read all the posts and still come away pretty confused on what is the best approach.

[Shihan]

If your gun has the carbine gas system use all 3. To get it installed easier use a small hose clamp and tighten it until it lines up.

[AllAmerican]

If your gun has the carbine gas system use all 3. To get it installed easier use a small hose clamp and tighten it until it lines up.


Is it possible to get too much tension on the extractor????

[Robb Jensen]

Is it possible to get too much tension on the extractor????

Yes,
on guns that don't need extra extractor tension it can effect feeding. It can also cause the extractor to overpower the ejector and thus not allow the empty to come off of the bolt.

The bolt should really be treated as a system. When upgrading the extractor/spring/insert/0-ring also check the ejector and spring. If they feel and/or look worn....replace them.

Basically mid-length and rifle length gas system ARs don't need the O-rings/D-fenders. 5 coil springs and black inserts will work.

[AllAmerican]

Yes,
on guns that don't need extra extractor tension it can effect feeding. It can also cause the extractor to overpower the ejector and thus not allow the empty to come off of the bolt.

The bolt should really be treated as a system. When upgrading the extractor/spring/insert/0-ring also check the ejector and spring. If they feel and/or look worn....replace them.

Basically mid-length and rifle length gas system ARs don't need the O-rings/D-fenders. 5 coil springs and black inserts will work.

Thank you Sir,
That is kind of what I was thinking. I have the LMT bolt with spring and black o-ring, and I am guessing they know what they are doing and I don't need to add anything to the extractor. Maybe should keep a spring and o-ring for a quick backup.
One more thing, do you think any of this can affect the headspacing????

[gjj]

Is a 16" barrel considered mid length?

[Robb Jensen]

Is a 16" barrel considered mid length?

16" barrels can be had with CAR or midlength gas systems. Easiest way to tell is if you have plastic handguards that are 7" it's CAR, if 9" it's midlength.

[markm]

I run 4 different carbean gas systems. Two 11.5s, a 14.5, and a 16 incher. I've never needed the O-ring or any other plumbing supplies in any of them.

If you need a damned tool to get your extractor back in the bolt, that's too much in my opinion. Even BCM admits that the stupid O-ring isn't needed, but customers want them, so they include them.

[gjj]

I am not a gun expert. But, I am an engineer. The thought of needing a tool to compress the spring and O ring just so I can assemble my bolt does not sit well with me.

Under this much tension, my suspicion would be that stress would be transfered to other areas in the extractor and extractor retaining pin that could cause these parts to fail.

[mmike87]

I personally follow the "Carbine, O-Ring, CS spring, and black Insert", "Midlength, CS spring and black insert" rule myself and so far have had no issues.

But to be honest, I didn't have any issues before upgrading the carbine bolt, either.

[Robb Jensen]

I am not a gun expert. But, I am an engineer. The thought of needing a tool to compress the spring and O ring just so I can assemble my bolt does not sit well with me.

Under this much tension, my suspicion would be that stress would be transfered to other areas in the extractor and extractor retaining pin that could cause these parts to fail.

After the first time assembled the extractor springs will take a 'set'. You don't have to use tools you can use a counter/table top extractor face down and press on the bolt. Works a little bit mo' betta than tools.

[C4IGrant]

I have read through several of the huge posts on this topic. I purchased the extractor upgrade kit (crane o-ring, HD extractor spring, black insert).

I found it impossible install all these simultaneously in my bolt. So, I tried just using the HD spring and black insert. It was still difficult to get the bolt reassembled without tools. My bolt had problems closing on rounds sometime. I was told that it would be fine after it was broken in. I want something that works from the beginning so I finally went to just the standard spring and black insert.

What is the current wisdom on what works best for 16" carbines (some of the threads are old)?

Should I be looking at adding a d-fender instead?

You can read all the posts and still come away pretty confused on what is the best approach.

What you experienced is 100% normal. Give the spring about 20 rounds to break in and you should be good after that. I would keep the O-ring out for at least 1k if you have experiencing issues.

Where the problem lies is that not all extractors are created equal. Some of the "pockets" where the extractor spring and insert sit are not as deep as others.


C4

[Pivo]

I replaced my original Extractor spring with the Buffer Technologies Extractor Upgrade Kit (sourced from Brownells). It consisted of the spring, black insert and an O-ring.

It fitted well, but after circa 1000 rounds the O-ring broke. The carbine was feeding well. I realised it was broken when I stripped it to clean it. The O-ring looked like it was pinched/cut/squeezed on the side(?).

Does one need the O-ring, or can I run it just with the spring and the black insert? My AR was feeding well before I installed the 'Upgrade Kit'.

[Iraqgunz]

You my dear Sir are in the running for necropost of 2012. Keep your eyes on the boards for this years winner.

No, you do not really need the O-ring. I consider the O-ring a crutch. If you have a good extractor spring and insert then you are good to go.


I replaced my original Extractor spring with the Buffer Technologies Extractor Upgrade Kit (sourced from Brownells). It consisted of the spring, black insert and an O-ring.

It fitted well, but after circa 1000 rounds the O-ring broke. The carbine was feeding well. I realised it was broken when I stripped it to clean it. The O-ring looked like it was pinched/cut/squeezed on the side(?).

Does one need the O-ring, or can I run it just with the spring and the black insert? My AR was feeding well before I installed the 'Upgrade Kit'.

[TacMedic556]

I think Iraqgunz hits the nail on the head. Good extractor spring really negates the need for the O ring I have found.

I put the 5 coild Sprinco extractor springs in all my ARs, Carbine and Middy. It was a B**** to put in and my thumb hurt for a couple days. The tension is good, real good. For a while it generated very fine, micro brass flakes after pulling cases out with a vengeance. It seems to die down with time.

Run a 5 coil and you won't have a problem.

[Pivo]

You my dear Sir are in the running for necropost of 2012. Keep your eyes on the boards for this years winner.

No, you do not really need the O-ring. I consider the O-ring a crutch. If you have a good extractor spring and insert then you are good to go.

Thanks for the answer guys.

PS. I have searched this site with numerous selection criteria, but I didn't get the exact answer to my question. Now I have it.

[DWSX]

Thanks for the answer guys.

PS. I have searched this site with numerous selection criteria, but I didn't get the exact answer to my question. Now I have it.

.........Pivo, thanks for asking the question,,,I also wondered the same, with new people coming aboard and technology ever changing,,I'm sure your post was well received...Most will give you a fair answer,,but there is always the "pompous sarcastic" reply..... :)

[sinlessorrow]

You my dear Sir are in the running for necropost of 2012. Keep your eyes on the boards for this years winner.

No, you do not really need the O-ring. I consider the O-ring a crutch. If you have a good extractor spring and insert then you are good to go.

Gotta agree with this.

If you have a good spring(BCM spring and insert) the ) O-ring should not be needed.

[BufordTJustice]

You my dear Sir are in the running for necropost of 2012. Keep your eyes on the boards for this years winner.

No, you do not really need the O-ring. I consider the O-ring a crutch. If you have a good extractor spring and insert then you are good to go.


Oh. Shit.

:D





P.S.: He gives good advice.

[Todd.K]

It's generally accepted that carbines need more extractor tension than the original M16, and it's also generally accepted that the o-ring and extra power extractor together are usaully too much.

We use a rifle extractor and O-ring on our rifles. We believe the O-ring has a longer service life than an extractor spring alone, while giving the increased extractor tension needed.

For a duty or defensive carbine it's also important to change the extractor spring based on a round count, not failure to extract.

[smitty704]

My PSA bolt came with an O-ring and a black insert(inside of spring, not sure what it's called). Running it in a PSA 14.7" middy and it has been flawless for right over 1200 rounds of mostly Tula steel cased ammo.

[DWSX]

It's generally accepted that carbines need more extractor tension than the original M16, and it's also generally accepted that the o-ring and extra power extractor together are usaully too much.

We use a rifle extractor and O-ring on our rifles. We believe the O-ring has a longer service life than an extractor spring alone, while giving the increased extractor tension needed.

For a duty or defensive carbine it's also important to change the extractor spring based on a round count, not failure to extract.

.....Thanks Todd, do you have a "recommended round count change" for the extractor spring/o-ring ??? thanks,Dan

[bluecanary]

For a while it generated very fine, micro brass flakes after pulling cases out with a vengeance. It seems to die down with time.


My Stag Model 8 with no black o ring was leaving flakes behind? Why? Problem?

[Kodiak]

I've read the thread TWICE! I'm a bit confused. Some are saying no o-ring and others are saying use the o-ring. I'm running a M&P 15 OR, carbine length gas system and shoot mostly XM193 5.56 ammo. Soon after I got it, I put an H2 buffer and the Springco extractor upgrade kit. I did not have any problems with the AR before the install, I did it more so as a "just in case". I have had NO problems since the install and have about 1200 rounds thru it. Should I consider taking the o-ring out??

In case anyone can "read" a case here are a few pics of some I shot the other weekend.

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa53/Kodiakco/Firearms/IMG_0708.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa53/Kodiakco/Firearms/IMG_0706.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa53/Kodiakco/Firearms/IMG_0702.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa53/Kodiakco/Firearms/IMG_0701.jpg

[Robb Jensen]

I use an o-ring on anything with a CAR gas length system, and on midlength guns which are shot exclusively suppressed.

[BufordTJustice]

I've read the thread TWICE! I'm a bit confused. Some are saying no o-ring and others are saying use the o-ring. I'm running a M&P 15 OR, carbine length gas system and shoot mostly XM193 5.56 ammo. Soon after I got it, I put an H2 buffer and the Springco extractor upgrade kit. I did not have any problems with the AR before the install, I did it more so as a "just in case". I have had NO problems since the install and have about 1200 rounds thru it. Should I consider taking the o-ring out??

In case anyone can "read" a case here are a few pics of some I shot the other weekend.

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa53/Kodiakco/Firearms/IMG_0708.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa53/Kodiakco/Firearms/IMG_0706.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa53/Kodiakco/Firearms/IMG_0702.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa53/Kodiakco/Firearms/IMG_0701.jpg

You may want to explore a blue springco buffer spring as well. I use the springco extractor spring as well, but I run a mid length so I don't use an o-ring.

I see a little bit of ejector smearing, but nothing horrible. The springco blue would help a little in delaying unlocking and slowing the unlocking cycle. But there is nothing horribly wrong going on that I can see.

The main issue is your primer is not flattened, indicating that there are no serious over pressure issues and that your chamber is apparently properly sized (a good thing).



Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[TacMedic556]

My Stag Model 8 with no black o ring was leaving flakes behind? Why? Problem?

Don't worry about it. Some re-loaders complain about the strong extractors ruining the rim of their cases. I don't reload for my M4's so it doesn't bother me that the cases get tore out of the chamber with a vengeance.

[Todd.K]

We recommend 5k for a duty rifle.


.....Thanks Todd, do you have a "recommended round count change" for the extractor spring/o-ring ??? thanks,Dan

[Stinx]

The Colts we got in work came with a gold colored extractor spring.