View Full Version : Wrinkle in pistol cases
Hi guys. New to the forum but have been reading through the threads now for a couple months. Great information! So I've been reloading for close to thirty years but mostly rifle. Just recently picked up a 9mm Springfield for my wife and liked it so much I bought a 45 for myself and started to reload for them. I have a dillon 550 and using rcbs dies and getting a wrinkle in the case during seating. Do I need to be using the powder charge funnel for belling and separate seating and crimping die to avoid this? It's the only thing I can think of after watching several videos on reloading but they never touch on this problem. I though at first I was ( in my seating/ crimping single die) that I was crimping them too tight before the bullet had a chance to fully seat but I have backed the crimp off to the point of being afraid the crimps not going to hold the bullet in if dropped. I'm tossing around the idea of going to the dillon 650 to set up and use for pistol and just use the 550 for rifle ammo. Anyone have any thoughts on this?Any help would be great. Thanks!
Dan
Do I need to be using the powder charge funnel for belling and separate seating and crimping die to avoid this? It'
YES! This also trues up the roundness of the case and pushes out any case mouth dings that the sizing die can't.
Yep Bell the cases. I don't like the dies that both seat and crimp.
thank you guys! So my thoughts are if i need to be using seperate seating and crimping dies, and funds are there buy the dillon 650, use their dies, maybe get the case feeder and go with it?
I run the 550b, never tried the 650.
I run the 550b, never tried the 650.
So your saying if I use separate dies the problem will go away ? Thank you.
Dan
It should certainly go away. I'm not seeing your process first hand, but it sounds like separating these stages will correct your issue.
It should certainly go away. I'm not seeing your process first hand, but it sounds like separating these stages will correct your issue.
Good deal thank you! I think I will buy the dillon dies and use them on my 550 before I dive into another 1k plus on the 650. One other issue I was having was when chambering a round from the clip the slide would tip the bullet down and jam. They were a fairly large hollow point so I'm wondering if the flat tip on the bullet was causing the jam due to not being round enough to make the slope and into the chamber? Other thought was bullets seated too deep?
Dan
Good deal thank you! I think I will buy the dillon dies and use them on my 550 before I dive into another 1k plus on the 650. One other issue I was having was when chambering a round from the clip the slide would tip the bullet down and jam. They were a fairly large hollow point so I'm wondering if the flat tip on the bullet was causing the jam due to not being round enough to make the slope and into the chamber? Other thought was bullets seated too deep?
Dan
Its hard to tell what is causing the wrinkle over the net. If it is the crimping. It could still happen if you seperate the seating and crimping. If you have case with a large variety of lengths, and you happen to set the crimp die with one of the short cases. You could get a wrinkle when you crimp one of the longer cases.
This is more prevalent with a roll crimp rather than a taper. You definitely need the bell lime others have stated. The best thing to do is seperate seating and crimping. Then the next time you load pay very close attention to each stage. In doing this you should be able to pinpoint exactly where it is happening. If it goes away you wont have it completely narrowed down, but you will know it was either lack of belling the case or seating/crimping at the same time.
Agree with the other respondents that Dillon dies or separate seat & crimp should solve your problem. Roll crimp should only be used on revolvers and taper crimp on autos. Either case, a LIGHT crimp is plenty until you venture into the magnum calibers. Reloading is an ongoing learning experience. After over 50 years at it, there is always that next learning experience! Please let us know if/how your problem was solved.
steyrman13
06-11-14, 21:21
I run the 550b, never tried the 650.
I figured with your volume you would be running a 650 by now for the extra stage. I have the Hornady LNL AP but thought about swapping it out for the 550b or 650 just due to everyone I know uses Dillon and would make it easier to share parts
Thanks guys! Not sure when but I decided to just order the dillon dies for now and try separating the steps. I will be sure to post my results. No doubt it's a continuous learning cycle...
Dan
I figured with your volume you would be running a 650 by now for the extra stage
Shoot! I don't even use Stage 1 on my 550b. I do powder charge, Bullet seat, and Factory crimp... That's it. I do all the prep and priming off that press.
markm, if you are speaking of pistol cartridges, I must ask WHY??
markm, if you are speaking of pistol cartridges, I must ask WHY??
Mostly rifle... but now that you mention it, when I do run 500 or 1000 round of 45 ACP, it's the same. I decap on my single, then SS media tumble. Then Size and prime 45 acp on the single stage.
The Dillon 550b priming system is garbage and a complete distraction and source of frustration. By priming off press, I NEVER have flipped or smashed primers. And I never have to refill the primer tubes or clear jams in the piece of shit system.
I focus on powder charge and bullet seating, and blow right through a heap of brass with no cussing, slamming, kicking pets, etc. from the aggravation of the primer feed system.
By itself, using the three die set-up should not be your problem, although many of us do prefer to seat and crimp separately. Wrinkles in the case are most likely caused by either not enough flare (if you are using jacketed bullets; with lead, you'd just shave the bullet) and/or improper setup of your seat/crimp die. If you want to buy a crimp die, great, but go back and make sure your current die is set up according to your directions.
rcoodyar15
06-12-14, 14:25
the only times I have ever wrinkled a pistol case was from not belling the case mouth enough or getting lazy seating the bullet and getting it angled.
you load enough and you can tell what is happening just by how it feels
of course I have always used a single stage press not a progressive. setting up the dies should be the same though.
rcoodyar15
06-12-14, 14:27
By itself, using the three die set-up should not be your problem, although many of us do prefer to seat and crimp separately. Wrinkles in the case are most likely caused by either not enough flare (if you are using jacketed bullets; with lead, you'd just shave the bullet) and/or improper setup of your seat/crimp die. If you want to buy a crimp die, great, but go back and make sure your current die is set up according to your directions.
now I can see that happening too. crimp starts before the bullet is completely seated? is that possible?
Rcoodyar15, that shouldn't happen if the die is set correctly. But if set for too heavy a crimp, maybe?
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After ready more of these replies I feel like I need to hold off on the dillon die set. I really do believe it in my die set up. I'll be honest I'm just a greenhorn on pistol reloading can anyone explain to me the proper way to set that seat/crimp die? I have to apologize I'm finding it hard to keep up on the thread I started let alone get back in front of the reloader but all this gives me something to think about.
On the dillon having a pos priming system for me I would say it could without a doubt be improved upon but once set up at least on mine it works pretty good. I have had problems getting everything set just right when going from large to small primers. Never forgetting to change out the primer tube to the right size is usually the cause of them wadding up. I'm guilty of that rookie move myself. Thanks for the help guys.
Dan
Years ago, I too had problems with the Dillon primer system but after receiving a new priming assembly from Dillon, it has been happy days. The thing I dislike most are the 'new & improved' primer pick up tubes. Truly the devils creation!
dan68...from your questions, it seems doubtful that you have a reloading manual as die set up will be explained there. Also, if you load much pistol ammo, you will be glad you are using Dillon dies. Personal experience!
There's probably a way to get that die to hum, but I've never loaded with that type of die. I have had cartridge damage from improperly set, or froze up dies before.
steyrman13
06-13-14, 10:47
After ready more of these replies I feel like I need to hold off on the dillon die set. I really do believe it in my die set up. I'll be honest I'm just a greenhorn on pistol reloading can anyone explain to me the proper way to set that seat/crimp die? I have to apologize I'm finding it hard to keep up on the thread I started let alone get back in front of the reloader but all this gives me something to think about.
On the dillon having a pos priming system for me I would say it could without a doubt be improved upon but once set up at least on mine it works pretty good. I have had problems getting everything set just right when going from large to small primers. Never forgetting to change out the primer tube to the right size is usually the cause of them wadding up. I'm guilty of that rookie move myself. Thanks for the help guys.
Dan
I'm still fairly new too it as well, but doesn't your dies have the instructions in the box?
http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instructions/reloadingdieinstructions.pdf
Do you have the 3 die or 2 for set? TC or rc? Carbide or regular steel?
Mostly rifle... but now that you mention it, when I do run 500 or 1000 round of 45 ACP, it's the same. I decap on my single, then SS media tumble. Then Size and prime 45 acp on the single stage.
The Dillon 550b priming system is garbage and a complete distraction and source of frustration. By priming off press, I NEVER have flipped or smashed primers. And I never have to refill the primer tubes or clear jams in the piece of shit system.
I focus on powder charge and bullet seating, and blow right through a heap of brass with no cussing, slamming, kicking pets, etc. from the aggravation of the primer feed system.
I have a 550 since 1991 and the small primer works pretty much 100% all the time but the large primer gives me trouble even with Dillon tech aid.
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