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View Full Version : Got to meet an old MACV-SOG guy yesterday



ABNAK
06-18-14, 23:17
Caveat: I will only use his first name as I didn't ask his permission to use his name and out of great respect for him I won't. I also was advised by my buddy not to ask OPSEC-type questions, which although the info is around 40-50 years old would still matter to this old Sog'er.

His name is Joe. He really is "old", gotta be around 86 or so. Was in a wheelchair with his Special Forces hat on. He is a friend of a friend and I've heard him spoken of numerous times. He lives in El Paso but was in TN visiting my friend. Both of these guys are retired SgtMaj's but Joe has a good 25 years on my buddy.

Joe lied about his age and joined the Navy near the end of WWII. He was on an LST in the Pacific and when the war ended he got sent to Japan for occupation duty. Got to see one of the nuked cities (didn't ask which one) and told me "There was nothing left".

Later Joe joined the Army and was in the Korean War. In the early 60's he joined Special Forces. He was actually at the ceremony when JFK presented the Green Beret to the unit and it was officially recognized as the headgear from that day on.

Being half-Hispanic Joe went to 7th SFG. He was in the Dominican Republic in '65 during our intervention. Then he spent a few years in Central and South America during the "hunt for Che" days (didn't ask for details on this either but my buddy told me some time ago that Joe was "there" when Che met his fate).

Joe then went to Vietnam and became part of SOG. He knew John Plaster and Bob Howard. He was with a part of SOG called Op-36, which from Googling I see was involved in inserting teams of Vietnamese agents into North Vietnam (the specifics of Op-36 is one of those questions I didn't ask). Joe also ran recon into Laos and Cambodia. Told me how they used to eat rice and shrimp so they'd smell like the enemy. Had a new guy slap on some Old Spice one day and he told him he'd shoot him in the forehead if he ever did it again! I asked him if he'd ever moved through an area that was Arc Lighted and he said "Yeah, everything's gone. You'd see a guy with blood running out of his ears and nose staggering around disoriented. I said 'What the f*** are you still doing alive' and shot the bastard". Said they used to carry German Schmeissers, AK's, some Swedish K's, and of course CAR-15's.

Joe was also at their base (I guess it was the Op-36 base) near Danang the night enemy sappers hit the CCN compound not far away. That was the single largest loss of life for SOG in their entire existence. Joe could see the tracers and hear the explosions and asked his CO for permission to go help the CCN guys. His CO was nervous as hell he said and refused to give permission. Joe protested "But they're Americans and they need our help!" The CO still refused and the next day a high-ranking colonel from Saigon flew up to see what had happened the night before. Joe dropped a dime on his CO about his recalcitrance and the colonel took him into another room and you could hear him screaming and reaming his ass!

Before his retirement Joe was the head of the Army's Sergeant Major Academy at Ft. Bliss. Gen. Omar Bradley (5-star of WWII fame) was long since retired but lived on post. He used to come to the Academy to talk to the NCO's. He had no interest in officers. In fact, when the officers would schmooze and try to kiss his ass he'd ask "Don't you have something you should be doing? Then go do it!" He just wanted to talk to enlisted guys. Guess he really was a "soldier's soldier". When Bradley left Ft. Bliss to live in D.C. he gave Joe and autographed photo of himself. I asked Joe if he still had it and he replied "Oh hell yes!"

We talked politics and I told Joe I really liked his one senator----Cruz. He agreed and said he's making a name for himself. Joe had also been stationed in Panama and since I was too we talked about that. However, as the afternoon wore on Joe started dozing every now and then in his chair and it was apparent he was getting worn out. His son was going to take him back to the hotel and before I left I patted him on the shoulder and shook his hand, telling him "I've never personally met a SOG guy. It was a pleasure to make your acquaintance." And I meant it!

Sadly, this old warrior is probably not going to be with us for too many more years. I hope to see him again one of these days but if I don't I have the satisfaction of having actually met someone who lived some very important---and violent---American history.

Straight Shooter
06-18-14, 23:59
WAY COOL of you to post this story, and I too share your enthusiasm for the great, old gents. Man...the things they saw & did!
THANK YOU for this story. BTW..can you say where in TN he was?

B Cart
06-19-14, 00:10
At my last job I had the pleasure of working with a MACV-SOG Green Beret who saw a lot of action during Vietnam and after. He was a great guy, and showed me a few pictures, but he didn't like to talk about it much. At the time, I had recently read multiple books about the LRPs, SOG, and other teams in Vietnam, so I was really excited when I found out this guy was a member of MACV-SOG. In the most polite way possible, I let him know I was really interested in the history of what he and those teams did in Nam, and I tried to get him to tell me a little about it, but he never would say a whole lot. I respected that and let it go, but it was cool to get to work with him.

ABNAK
06-19-14, 00:52
WAY COOL of you to post this story, and I too share your enthusiasm for the great, old gents. Man...the things they saw & did!
THANK YOU for this story. BTW..can you say where in TN he was?

He was visiting my buddy in the Clarksville area. Joe himself lives in El Paso.

SteyrAUG
06-19-14, 03:41
When I was a teen in the early 80s I remember the disdain with which most Vietnam vets were treated. I knew a great many of them because several were involved in the martial arts community down here (seemed to be one of the few places they weren't judged either way).

Lots and lots of stories about guys who where in places they shouldn't have been and doing things they shouldn't have been doing. Seemed to be the popular thing to do, to view them as lower class and something close to a traitor, ironically the same public saw Fonda as some kind of activist hero.

I was too young to understand most of the bullshit at play, to me they were just a younger version of the WWII vets I admired who had to fight in filthy jungles rather than in the towns and countryside of Europe.

I remember hearing about the famous MACV-SOG "Get out of jail free card" and some of these guys shared some enlightening experiences on occasion. But as much as I admired them and loved hearing their stories, even at that young age I understood that unlike most WWII vets I knew, a LOT of the Vietnam vets didn't quite make it all the way home. The fact that they were unwelcome by many probably had a lot to do with that. I always felt sad for them because as far as I could tell they did the best with what they were given and the options available to them.

I remember that at first they were livid about the Vietnam Wall, most declared it to be nothing more than a huge tombstone symbolizing a failure. Eventually they seemed to come to terms with it even if it wasn't the same kind of memorial the guys at Iwo Jima got.

When all the "vietnam" movies came out in the mid to late 1980s, they generally made things worse. Films like "Casualties of War" seemed to want to make all the vets carry a shame for actions they never had anything to do with.

It really wasn't until decades later that they finally began to be treated like people, it wouldn't be until films such as "We Were Soldiers" that they were seen by the average person as somebody who didn't somehow lose the war. I guess you have to be somebodies grandfather before you can be accepted as a person again. I hope their grandchildren view them with the same awe that I had for my grandfather and his buddies.