MK18 Mod 0 clone (KAC RAS vs LaRue LT15-7)

[F-Trooper05]

So I'm planning on building a MK18 Mod 0 clone with an LMT 10.5" upper, and I'm stuck on which handguard to go with. I know the RAS is more authentic (although I remember reading somewhere on here from an SME that LaRue handguards are currently in use with some MK18's) and I'm just looking for the board's opinion. Is there any reason I should spend an extra $100 on the RAS considering it's non-freefloat? (not that that really matters on a 10.5" upper).

Note: I've also considered the Centurian C4, which I have several of just because I'm addicted to that company and I think Monty's a stud, but for the time being, let's just keep the conversation between KAC and LaRue.

I mostly just want this gun to look mean (read: have something sick and nasty to show off in the M4C pic thread), however, if it were to be used for anything serious, it would be vehicle oriented fighting classes.

[coldblue]

I would stick with a KAC M4 RIS simply because its the legit Mk18 forend.
The LaRue is nice for a "non-clone" SBR. Note that the LaRue requires the Delta Ring handguard retainer to be removed and that really changes the appearance of the weapon.
As far as what the SME told you, there are also probably some out there with SWAN Sleeves as well, but none are the real deal.
To me more collectable and valuable clones need to be just that. For example, my Mk12 Mod 1 (FDNY):
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q759/D_A_Lutz/FDNYright_zpsf069d5f2.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/D_A_Lutz/media/FDNYright_zpsf069d5f2.jpg.html)

[tweakmeister]

Coldblue, I think you have confused the mk18 and mk12. (Edit, n/m you are correct, my mistake)

I have used both the Larue and the RAS. The Larue gives you a QD cup and has a nice diameter in the hands in addition to being free floated.

That being said the RAS locks up very tight (tight enough that Trey @ KAC has talked about being able to mount an optic to it with some success). Regardless, it's a great rail and can be had cheaply due to their abundance, along with an easier installation process.

I am such a fan that it's the only carbine rail (the RAS), I use now.

[Onyx Z]

Coldblue, I think you have confused the mk18 and mk12.

I doubt it since the original, legit Mk18's used the KAC M4 RIS along with the FSB and delta ring.

I know it's not really what you're going for, but I think the FDE DD RIS II looks damn good and is solid as hell, but it is a 10" rail, so you can't use the FSB, essentially making it a Mk18 Mod 1. And since free-floated rails aren't absolutely necessary, especially on such a short barrel, I would go with the legit KAC M4 RIS for a clone.

[steyrman13]

You can find KAC m4 RAS blems for around $90-110 both KAC and larue are found on mod 0. Mod 1 use dd RIS II

[F-Trooper05]

You can find KAC m4 RAS blems for around $90-110

Where?

[steyrman13]

Where?

Check with Grant or I can probably point you in another direction. Even on Kac website store the seconds are only $150

[coldblue]

"...Coldblue, I think you have confused the mk18 and mk12..."
Not confused. I don't have a photo of a Mk18 that I have cloned, but obviously I have Mk12 Mod1.
I am very big on the correct parts per the mil-spec, or in these two cases, what the Navy at Crane built or designated for USSOCOM.
I mean I have seen a hundred different renditions of "Mk12's", few of which resemble the real deal.
I patterned mine Mk12 from this actual war horse returned to us for repair:
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q759/D_A_Lutz/fullview_zps58fc816d.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/D_A_Lutz/media/fullview_zps58fc816d.jpg.html)

I know the original FDNY has some incorrect parts, but I think the unit just didn't want to send it back missing too many parts. Even though the SWAN Sleeve was not right and the 600 meter rear sight would not work atop it.

[JohnnyC]

coldblue is most definitely not confused. Read his signature line.

He's just demonstrating (with another Crane-created weapons system) that a clone should be just that, a clone. NOT a bunch of substituted parts.

[F-Trooper05]

So I take it LaRue rails have never been officially used unless they were purchased at the unit level?

[decodeddiesel]

I have a blem KAC RAS on mine (paid $75 for it) and couldn't be happier.

[Bowser]

I guess to keep in line with what Coldblue is saying, you will need this!

http://www.specializedarmament.com/products/51_Upper_Receiver_Group_Colt_MK18-954-0.html

[coldblue]

I guess to keep in line with what Coldblue is saying, you will need this!

http://www.specializedarmament.com/products/51_Upper_Receiver_Group_Colt_MK18-954-0.html

Not necessarily. The carrying Handle is wrong, the Magtec rear sight they reference is not Mk18 as well. Crane spec's a LMT rear.

[sua175]

Not necessarily. The carrying Handle is wrong, the Magtec rear sight they reference is not Mk18 as well. Crane spec's a LMT rear.

None of the mk18 I saw in the Army had LMT rear sights, is this just the sight that ships for navy guns? So do all the Army mk18's, mk12's and mk11's come from crane or from other distribution channels?

[coldblue]

Don't have knowledge of Mk18's in the big Army. The Soldiers that receive them from USSOCOM, I believe get the Crane version.
Other Crane weapons come with the following sights:
Mk 12 Mod 1: KAC 200-600 meter rear, KAC Rail Mounted Flip Up Front.
Mk 11's: KAC 200-600 meter rear, KAC Folding Front (Model is generation dependent).

[Split66]

double tap

[Failure2Stop]

If you're going to do a clone, do a clone.

If you want a sweet SBR, learn from those that have done it before and reach for excellence.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

[Split66]

None of the mk18 I saw in the Army had LMT rear sights, is this just the sight that ships for navy guns? So do all the Army mk18's, mk12's and mk11's come from crane or from other distribution channels?


Those aren't mk18s, those are M4/M4A1s with a CQBR upper. ;) It's alot of minutia

The mk18mod 0 is the early Crane gun used by Navy VBSS/Specwar.

10.3 colt barrel cut from 14.5

un documented LMT 10.5 batch

M16A1 lower

Aimpoint Comp M2 in a Wilcox mount

LMT rear sight or cut carry handle

Sopmod stock made by Crane then later by LMT/B5 ( gen 1 no QD )

Colt BCG with 1 piece gas ring ( until it was ditched ) and 0 ring

PRI gas buster Charging handle

AN PEQ 2

Surefire M962 with IR kit

mounted to a KAC RIS ( not RAS )

KAC NT4 QDSS suppressor and adapter

Dieter CQD sling mounts front and rear

US Navy Spec war individuals modified the add ons to their convenience and mission requirments. Eotech 511s, 552s...TA01 Acogs, KAC buis other lights and random cool stuff like M203s have been seen. It's idiotic to try to nail every part, those guys are fluid.

NAVY EOD had a version of the CQBR as well with Vltor rail, a mag well funnel and other various stuff.



The CQBR is a spin off used by other SOCOM units ( rangers MARSOC ) and Special Forces among others to expand the mission capability of the M4 carbine

Early version

Colt 10.3 factory barrel possible Crane cut downs, Colt uppers on M4 and later M4A1 lowers

Eotech 511/552 seem to be the early RDS among others like the CMORE

KAC RAS

Surefire light forend and various other lights

Matech or KAC buis

NT4 etc.

The army CQBRs are often seen with CAR( N1 ) stocks or regular waffle stocks as well as Sopmod stocks

Later the CQBR was updated and has been labeled by some as the Mk18mod1 but I'm not sure that the designation is actually used.

It included the Daniel Defense mk 18 rail and a bevy of Phased replacment parts for remaining FSB uppers

Eotech 553 and magnifier and later the EXPS 3. or the Elcan Spectre series of 1 or 4X sights

ANPEQ 15 and other pointers

The insight IR flashlight SU233 PVS, that many replaced with surefire scouts or other lights

I probably missed some stuff, debating what is actually used is somewhat retarded in regards to how these units procure stuff :D



Crane Mk18 mod 0 VBSS

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/070311-N-0120A-048.jpg

Navy specwar

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd222/chrisu5/Ax1.jpg

http://www.silencertests.com/albums/LMT/mk18.jpg

CQBR early with SF

http://www.americanspecialops.com/images/photos/special-forces/7th-special-forces-group.jpg

CQBR phased replacment

http://www.americanspecialops.com/images/photos/special-forces/7th-group-hr.jpg

CQBR latest blocks

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/9055/blasterj.jpg

http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/jpg/cd616e6e9b27007c3f2b7901285e7acc28726ff8_r.jpg

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j337/ert185/aec5b82f.jpg

[F-Trooper05]

un documented LMT 10.5 batch

Can you expand on this? What was the purpose of them being undocumented?

[Split66]

Can you expand on this? What was the purpose of them being undocumented?


There was an NSN for LMT uppers to be used replacements/augmentation to the Colt/Crane cut down program.... and some eye witness accounts of use in the field, but no actual confirmed pictures have surfaced.

It has spawned some awesome geeky/chest puffing forum arguments to say the least! :D