View Full Version : Affordable/Lightweight for Wife?
I'm just getting back into AR's (got a 6920 to re-familiarize myself) and things have certainly changed since my SP-1 days! :eek:
Anywho, I'm now researching something light & affordable for the wife (who's petite & recoil-shy) to replace her PS90.
Doesn't need to be Tier-1 but does need to be rugged/reliable enough for her casual use, the current options are overwhelming.
I'm thinking Aimpoint Micro w/no FSB or BUIS, perhaps a pinned 14.5" middy w/an H2 buffer.
Any budget out-of-the-box or minimal assembly required suggestions? (Haven't reached the DIY level yet). TIA...
Tomac
SeriousStudent
06-21-14, 15:38
Robb Jensen (a Staff member here) did exactly what you are looking to do, and made a very nice lightweight AR for his spouse.
If I recall correctly, he used a BCM pencil barrel 16" middy upper. You might dig through his posts, it was a really good thread with a lot of weights and thoughts on his choices.
Robb's also built an upper for me, and it runs like a champ.
Robb Jensen (a Staff member here) did exactly what you are looking to do, and made a very nice lightweight AR for his spouse.
If I recall correctly, he used a BCM pencil barrel 16" middy upper. You might dig through his posts, it was a really good thread with a lot of weights and thoughts on his choices.
Robb's also built an upper for me, and it runs like a champ.
Thx! What's his user name? No search results under his given name.
Tomac
Sorry, I must have read the title wrong. I thought you were looking for an affordable lightweight wife.
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How affordable does the rifle need to be? Price range? If you're going to run a T-1 or H-1 you must be willing to put some $ into it. The easy answer would be a BCM ELW with KMR rail and some kind of light weight stock. Easy, not the absolute lightest, but pretty light and you wouldn't have to build it.
Jensen used a bunch of lightweight specialized parts. EDIT: Not as many as I remembered.
I've built several "Lady Rifles" using 14.5" LW Middy Uppers, 11" Lightweight Hand guards, and Magpul K Grips.
If I were building one now, I'd simply opt for BCM's 14.5" or 16" Mid Length Extreme Lightweight Upper paired with a 10" KMR Handguard and one of the Tactical Muzzle Comps.
I shy away from using extremely lightweight stocks because I prefer to keep the balance point just rear of the magwell which balances better for women or those with less upper body strength.
I can't add much that hasn't already been stated, but I concur with a BCM lightweight middy in 14.5 inch pinned with a kmr on it. A regular MOE stock is very light, but isn't all tacticool like some of the other ones. I'd suggest some BUIS though. If you use BCM's mod one flash hider with a middy she'll hardly notice any recoil. Of course the H1 or T1 is about as light as you can get for a red dot.
I second what serious student already mentioned about finding that thread. Lots of good info there.
Here is a thread that lists a bunch of lightweight parts. On a very lightweight rifle. But I wouldn't call the build "affordable" as it uses some reasonably "exotic" parts.
Noveske-Ultralight (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?146386-Noveske-Ultralight)
OK, here is Robbs thread about featherweight rifle link--- Project-Featherweight (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?39599-Project-Featherweight)
His project was in 2009 and things have changed a bit since then. You can probably approximate the weight of his rifle with the BCM stuff and not have to build it yourself. Good luck.
Another option is the Ranier Arms RUC2. Advertised as weighing 6 lbs 1.4 oz, without sights. Believe it only comes in 16", but that's a plus to me as pinned MDs are a hassle should you want to change them, or the gas block. https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=4278
HardToHandle
06-21-14, 20:18
Colt 6720.
It is almost as light as a 14.5 pinned lightweight.
I have seen prices under $900 NIB.
I would look at this, it is finally back in stock. Get some 10 & 20 rnd PMAGS to help keep weight down.
https://www.primaryarms.com/Spikes-Tactical-14-5-Mid-Length-Lightweight-LE-w-p/str5050-mls.htm
I would look at this, it is finally back in stock. Get some 10 & 20 rnd PMAGS to help keep weight down.
https://www.primaryarms.com/Spikes-Tactical-14-5-Mid-Length-Lightweight-LE-w-p/str5050-mls.htm
This and the 6720 have possibilities. I'm not familiar w/Spikes Tactical, are they gtg?
Tomac
Just to think outside of the box.......
Have you considered an 11.5" bcm upper on a pistol lower with a Sig arm brace? It can still be shouldered (rather comfortably from what others say here) and would shift the balance and make it feel even lighter for her.
Just to think outside of the box.......
Have you considered an 11.5" bcm upper on a pistol lower with a Sig arm brace? It can still be shouldered (rather comfortably from what others say here) and would shift the balance and make it feel even lighter for her.
Interesting idea, how's the recoil and aimed accuracy?
Tomac
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?118998-New-Stabilizing-Brace-for-AR15-Pistol-quot-SB15-quot
From what I understand it's about as accurate as any 11.5" rifle, it can be shouldered, and doesn't look or feel as goofy as you'd think. The above thread has convinced me to go this route while waiting on a tax stamp. It would also avoid the hoopla of contacting the atf if you ever had to cross state lines with it, as it's a pistol.
http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s424/Rmillerm4/0_zpskkhya8cq.jpg
Interesting idea, how's the recoil and aimed accuracy?
Tomac
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?118998-New-Stabilizing-Brace-for-AR15-Pistol-quot-SB15-quot
From what I understand it's about as accurate as any 11.5" rifle, it can be shouldered, and doesn't look or feel as goofy as you'd think. The above thread has convinced me to go this route while waiting on a tax stamp. It would also avoid the hoopla of contacting the atf if you ever had to cross state lines with it, as it's a pistol.
http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s424/Rmillerm4/0_zpskkhya8cq.jpg
This is looking better and better. I'm still getting up to speed on AR's, is it better to purchase a complete AR pistol (who makes them, who's gtg?) or assemble from components?
Tomac
I would buy the upper from BCM. They have quite a few 10.5 "add 11.5" uppers in different configurations.
You can buy completed pistol lowers, or assemble your own. The hardest part of the lower is aligning and tightening the receiver extension. I think aero precision and spikes offer complete pistol lowers. I would find a lower locally and have everything else shipped to my door if I were going it.
After that add the arm brace.
This is looking better and better. I'm still getting up to speed on AR's, is it better to purchase a complete AR pistol (who makes them, who's gtg?) or assemble from components?
Tomac
This and the 6720 have possibilities. I'm not familiar w/Spikes Tactical, are they gtg?
Tomac
Spikes is well know for making quality firearms for the money, they are GTG but do not stay in stock long. Also with your restricted budget it would be easier to do. This or a Colt AR6720.
jerrysimons
06-22-14, 09:41
Don't know exactly wha your budget is but it seems you are o the right track. I would do a BCM complete upper with a 10" KMR and either a 14.5" ELW/ELW-F with muzzle break for recoil (unless the noise will be too much for her). Get a blem BCM complete lower from Grant at GandRtactical (he also has the uppers, don't forget the BCG). Then slap a stock on it, something mid weight like a B5 Bravo or CTR on the back to bias the weight towards the rear (which is important to feel light weight at the pivot of the pistol grip) and put you T1/H1 on with either a DD Micro mount or Fortis F1. Use Magpul MBUS gen 2 polymer sights if you did do BUIS and you would have a highest quality, lightweight rifle for maybe $1600 you can get all of this stuf through GandR. He has great deals on Aimpoint Micro/DD micro mount combos.
If you really want to obsess over this the possibilities are endless and very expensive. Keep it simple and focus on weight saving in the barrel and handguard.
I also really like the idea of a 10" KMR w/ 11.5" lightweight barrel and an Sig arm brace in the rear of a pistol lower with the same acceaories.
Good luck.
Don't know exactly wha your budget is but it seems you are o the right track. I would do a BCM complete upper with a 10" KMR and either a 14.5" ELW/ELW-F with muzzle break for recoil (unless the noise will be too much for her). Get a blem BCM complete lower from Grant at GandRtactical (he also has the uppers, don't forget the BCG). Then slap a stock on it, something mid weight like a B5 Bravo or CTR on the back to bias the weight towards the rear (which is important to feel light weight at the pivot of the pistol grip) and put you T1/H1 on with either a DD Micro mount or Fortis F1. Use Magpul MBUS gen 2 polymer sights if you did do BUIS and you would have a highest quality, lightweight rifle for maybe $1600 you can get all of this stuf through GandR. He has great deals on Aimpoint Micro/DD micro mount combos.
This^
If you want to go the NFA route, get the BCM 11.5" upper w/ BCM KMR 10".
The KMR is not only EXTREMELY light weight, but it is VERY low-profile, which would allow your wife an easy and comfortable grip of the rail.
jerrysimons
06-22-14, 09:55
Well it would probably be more like $1800 with BCG and charging handle. Don't forget to PM Grant for the M4C discount.
I would look at this, it is finally back in stock. Get some 10 & 20 rnd PMAGS to help keep weight down.
https://www.primaryarms.com/Spikes-Tactical-14-5-Mid-Length-Lightweight-LE-w-p/str5050-mls.htm
No firm decision yet but after talking w/the spousal unit, this looks to be the frontrunner right now. Many thx for all the input so far!
Tomac
No firm decision yet but after talking w/the spousal unit, this looks to be the frontrunner right now. Many thx for all the input so far!
Tomac
I'll bet she is "recoil sensitive" due to the noise not the recoil impulse. If that's the case you are moving in the wrong direction.
This thread is going down a very bumpy road.... OP, do yourself a favor, forget the last 15 or so posts.... You'll thank me later. No offense to anyone, but this is someone's first AR. Let's make it a good impression. No sig arm brace short barrel fireball spitting spike's tactical non milspec bargain rifle. (Notice the rifle is "milspec compliant"). Parts material matters as much as deminsions... That being said, of the Bottom tier rifles, spikes isn't all that bad I suppose. Just keep in mind, changing just one or two seemingly insignificant things on the particular rifle mentioned will put you in the same price range of a much better quality rifle like a BCM or Colt.
My Wife shoots my AR pistol just fine! YMMV. I run a Flaming pig on a 7.5" barrel so no issues with muzzle blast.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/23/7a3egyjy.jpg
My Wife shoots my AR pistol just fine! YMMV. I run a Flaming pig on a 7.5" barrel so no issues with muzzle blast.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/23/7a3egyjy.jpg
The pig weighs 7 ounces! The OP mentioned keeping it lite.
The pig weighs 7 ounces! The OP mentioned keeping it lite.
you're so right!! My barrel weighs 16 ounces.
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
SeriousStudent
06-22-14, 13:47
Thx! What's his user name? No search results under his given name.
Tomac
His user name is exactly the way I spelled it: Robb Jensen
https://www.m4carbine.net/member.php?394-Robb-Jensen
Let's be honest here. What exactly is the purpose/use of an AR for your wife? Has she even shot your 6920? Can she shoot the 6920 at a target at 25 yards and hit it? What are you willing to spend for the whole project, including the RDS? Many a time this topic has come up about building/buying a carbine for the "little lady". "Something light and affordable." More often the case, it wasn't really about outfitting the wife/girlfriend, but just an excuse to get another AR tricked out for the man of the house under the guise that "My wife will want to shoot it more". Save your money, buy plenty of ammo for her to take a class(es) using the 6920 and then take it from there. You get all these suggestions to get this or get that. It won't matter a bit if she doesn't have some basic marksmanship skills.
Let's be honest here. What exactly is the purpose/use of an AR for your wife? Has she even shot your 6920? Can she shoot the 6920 at a target at 25 yards and hit it? What are you willing to spend for the whole project, including the RDS? Many a time this topic has come up about building/buying a carbine for the "little lady". "Something light and affordable." More often the case, it wasn't really about outfitting the wife/girlfriend, but just an excuse to get another AR tricked out for the man of the house under the guise that "My wife will want to shoot it more". Save your money, buy plenty of ammo for her to take a class(es) using the 6920 and then take it from there. You get all these suggestions to get this or get that. It won't matter a bit if she doesn't have some basic marksmanship skills.
Wow, being a little abrasive here, aren't we? To answer your questions:
1) For range/SD use.
2) Yes, she's shot my 6920 and can hit a gallon water jug at 25yds.
3) As little as possible while still fulfilling minimal reliability requirements. My wife has kidney cancer (thankfully back in remission) so not only do medical bills reduce the amount we can spend but she's not as physically strong as she used to be, hence my interest in a lightweight build. She likes the Eotech's reticle best so the RDS will most likely be the XPS2-0.
4) I take offense at your insinuation that this is a thinly-veiled attempt to justify another rifle purchase for myself. I currently own two identically-equipped 6920's and I'm perfectly happy with them. If my wife was stronger I might have simply given her one of my 6920's or purchased another just for her use.
5) Before she can take classes I need to find her a rifle suited to her present physical capabilities, hence the reason I started this thread.
Satisfied?...
Tomac
TacticalMark
06-22-14, 18:42
I would look at this, it is finally back in stock. Get some 10 & 20 rnd PMAGS to help keep weight down.
https://www.primaryarms.com/Spikes-Tactical-14-5-Mid-Length-Lightweight-LE-w-p/str5050-mls.htm
Considering keeping the cost down, I would look at the Spikes LW 14.5" as well. Good price for a decent rifle.
Considering keeping the cost down, I would look at the Spikes LW 14.5" as well. Good price for a decent rifle.
Already "Out of Stock"! They go fast, a lot of rifle for the money.
jerrysimons
06-22-14, 19:46
Why go Spikes?
Here are two lightweight budget options that you wont have to worry if corners were cut.
COLT AR 6720: $962
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6720
Aimpoint H1/DD micro mount combo: $596
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=APH1DD
Total = $1558
OR
BCM complete blem lower: $308
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LWR-BCM-BLEM
Magpul CTR: $60
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CTR
BCM upper, 13" keymod rail, 14.5" ELW-F w/ pinned mod1 comp: $739
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=14.5-MIDELWF-13-MOD1
BCM M16 BCG: $163
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=BCG-BCM
BCM Gunfighter charging handle mod 4: $44
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=GFCH-BCM
Total $1311
w/ H1/DD combo = $1907
Why go Spikes?
Here are two lightweight budget options that you wont have to worry if corners were cut.
COLT AR 6720: $962
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6720
Aimpoint H1/DD micro mount combo: $596
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=APH1DD
Total = $1558
OR
BCM complete blem lower: $308
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LWR-BCM-BLEM
Magpul CTR: $60
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CTR
BCM upper, 13" keymod rail, 14.5" ELW-F w/ pinned mod1 comp: $739
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=14.5-MIDELWF-13-MOD1
BCM M16 BCG: $163
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=BCG-BCM
BCM Gunfighter charging handle mod 4: $44
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=GFCH-BCM
Total $1311
w/ H1/DD combo = $1907
Grant's 6720 is also very much in the running w/the Spikes Tactical. I would prefer she go w/the 6720 but it has to be what she wants (within reason, of course). Thx for the links!...
Tomac
OP, you've made the mistake of using the words "light weight" in the middle of the latest AR15 fashion craze, which is building the lightest weight AR one can. Many folks here are obsessed with light weight, at the expense of everything else. So, you are getting TONS of bad suggestions. Simply put, your timing couldn't be worse for asking your specific question.
I would first suggest that light weight is less important than you think it is, and lowered recoil impulse and muzzle flash/blast/concussion is more important than you think it is. Especially if you shoot indoors.
Anyways, BCM makes mid-length ARs that are really soft shooting, so that's the company I would suggest you look at. To minimize flash/blast/concussion, stick with a standard A2 muzzle device, or possibly BCM's Gunfighter comp, and a barrel at least 16" long. A light weight barrel doesn't save as much weight as a light weight rail system, like a KMR rail system.
I would suggest one of these; http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=750-780
It's light, very soft shooting, has a nice trigger, a nice grip, nice stock, a light weight rail system, and all it needs is an optic of some sort. And it's going to be BCM quality, with the backing of a great company.
Anyways, BCM makes mid-length ARs that are really soft shooting, so that's the company I would suggest you look at. To minimize flash/blast/concussion, stick with a standard A2 muzzle device, or possibly BCM's Gunfighter comp, and a barrel at least 16" long. A light weight barrel doesn't save as much weight as a light weight rail system, like a KMR rail system.
I would suggest one of these; http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=750-780
It's light, very soft shooting, has a nice trigger, a nice grip, nice stock, a light weight rail system, and all it needs is an optic of some sort. And it's going to be BCM quality, with the backing of a great company.
I agree with this. I have the same gun from Grant but with the SS410 barrel and it's totally awesome. :)
if you go sig brace pistol, DO NOT EVER put a vfg on it. i repeat, DO NOT use a vfg.
Nocalsocal
06-27-14, 16:23
To the OP, don't ever bring up Spikes Tactical as an option. It's like starting a caliber war. Or polymer vs metal. Ford vs Chevy. Never mind that it will meet your needs at a good price. Never mind that all you have to do is switch out the ST-T2 buffer for a H Buffer, and like magic you'll be "Mil-Spec". And you'll still be able to get a rifle and a case of ammo for under a $1100.
I'm not denying that the owner of Spikes has some questionable business practices. And they do make some products that are highly questionable and downright dumb (eg. their lightweight BCG and Flare launcher) And yet somehow that equates them to being bottom tier? When they stick to known quality builds and materials they provide an outstanding product like their LE line of ARs. Every Spikes LE rifle I've seen has been on par (materials, staking, finish and otherwise) with the holy trinity of AR manufacturers.
Back to the topic. At one time I thought of chasing the elusive lightweight AR but after weighing my rifle I figured good enough. I put together a basic rifle. It weighs 7 pounds even when empty. I used a Spikes Mid-length Enhanced Optimum profiled CHF Barrel upper on a forged Rainier Arms Lower, 13 in. Troy Alpha Rail, Vltor A5 RE System, Colt/Rogers Super stock, and a Grey Ghost Gear sling. I'm only running Daniel Defense irons for now. The only way to make it substantially lighter is to change out the handguard. But even then, I would rather put the money towards a quality red dot. Even after 2 years, thousands of rounds and with minimal cleaning, I've yet to have a malfunction.
I really think that the Colt 6720 is the better choice if you believe in resale value. Other than switching out the somewhat unproven ST-T2 buffer, I think the lightweight Spikes would give you more bang for your buck while at the same time giving you years of reliable service.
These days I like light everything. Thought about building up a rifle, then learned about the 6720 which I could get for about a grand. Everything I wanted, nothing I didn't, and a factory warranty--plus excellent resale value, The only changes I made were a Geissele G2S and an optic (TA-33 ACOG). Hard to see how I could have done better.
Tomac, first off best of luck to your wife. My wife (5'2" not that it matters) enjoys my 16", 12.5" SBR, and 7.5" SB pistol (w/ troy claymore) and can handle them well/ok (I should mention her instructor sucks). She's still digging her teeth in the AR platform, so she hasn't really come into her own style yet. Not sure if that helps. So no matter which AR route you go I'm pretty sure as long as you use a quality company you'll be GTG.
Secondly, how's wife's pistol situation? I always try and push pistol training with wife, as I think it's more likely the platform she'll be using in real life situation. Plus pistols are as lightweight as they come. Maybe could even take her to IDPA or similar gun games. Regardless it's the time spent with you she'll probably enjoy the most. Best of luck and be safe.
Moose-Knuckle
07-04-14, 17:32
Colt 6720.
It is almost as light as a 14.5 pinned lightweight.
I have seen prices under $900 NIB.
I picked up a pair from a LE supply for $979 a pop. The 6720 is the zennith of KISS carbines.
Heres what I did. She loves it. 14.5 inch Ballistic advantage light weight profile with permed Rainier RAC.
Aero precision upper/lower and UTG PRO slim tube. (The UTG Pro may be cheap but it locks up tight to the receiver and is straight as an arrow)
SLR Adjustable gas block, AIM Bolt.
Im guessing weight w/out optics is about 7 pounds. Could have been lighter (like mine below sans optics of course)but she had to have pink.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/snekrz/AR-15/20140629_144054_zpsa3zugzrv.jpg
OP, looks like you are on the right track.
Colt, and bcm would definitely be the two to look at for a general purpose, lightweight carbine.
I would suggest a lightweight profile barrel, 14.5" barrel with some flash hider perm. attached (or just a 16" barrel), midlength gas system, and the eotech she wants. If there are still funds available, maybe get a lightweight rail, but not a must-have. I like BCM since you can pretty much get exactly what you want, already put together, and you know everything is done right-straight from them.
bcm 14.5" LW w/12"dd lite or MI keymod $645-$685 respectively.
G&R bcm blem lower $372
G&R BCM bcg - $170
Gunfighter-45
TOTAL=$1280 with no sights
or go to G&R and get the bcm lightweight midlength rifle, outfit it with magpul furniture and buis and call it a day for $1186. Then get the RDS. I would definitely get midlength for the ladies. Both my, and my friend's girl thought the recoil difference between 16" carbine and 14.5" mid was significant.
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