View Full Version : The PRE 86 BATF...
A lot of people simply weren't born before FOPA 86 went into place, and many more were too young to understand what was going on. They have no idea how bad the 1968 Gun Control Act actually was when it was in place.
Well this should help. Scans are from the June 1979 issue of SOF.
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Part II from the July 1979 issue of SOF.
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Good thing the ATF is a clean, legit Agency now. :sarcastic:
I'll never forget that documentary/Show on the guy who went undercover as an outlaw biker for like over a year and wrecked is real personal life, etc.... ALL to get a couple of illegal MAC-10s or some shit. Completely retarded organization.
Thanks for posting. We've been at war with citizens for a long time. I wonder if anyone could put a real date on it. At least since the 20s with all the "mobsters." Mobsters>Drug Dealers>Terrorists. Always an enemy we must fight at the citizen's expense.
Thanks for posting. We've been at war with citizens for a long time. I wonder if anyone could put a real date on it. At least since the 20s with all the "mobsters." Mobsters>Drug Dealers>Terrorists. Always an enemy we must fight at the citizen's expense.
To be fair, 20s gangsters, 30s era banks robbers, 60s radicals and 80s coke cartels were a true danger to everyone. But entrapping collectors at gun shows is quite a different story.
Good thing the ATF is a clean, legit Agency now. :sarcastic:
I'll never forget that documentary/Show on the guy who went undercover as an outlaw biker for like over a year and wrecked is real personal life, etc.... ALL to get a couple of illegal MAC-10s or some shit. Completely retarded organization.
He infiltrated the Hell's Angels MC and his life is ruined for what I imagine he believed to be faithful service. I have yet to read the book but I've been told that the agency ended up turning their back on him and view him as a pariah. He supposedly lives in hiding now out of fear of retribution from the OMG.
To be fair, 20s gangsters, 30s era banks robbers, 60s radicals and 80s coke cartels were a true danger to everyone. But entrapping collectors at gun shows is quite a different story.
"Everyone" is a little overblown. The chances of regular folks getting injured or killed by any of those groups was remote. Not to mention .gov mettling in folks personal affairs was solely responsible for empowering a couple of those groups.
"Everyone" is a little overblown. The chances of regular folks getting injured or killed by any of those groups was remote. Not to mention .gov mettling in folks personal affairs was solely responsible for empowering a couple of those groups.
OK, threat to the general public is perhaps more accurate. But I remember the Miami coke wars and there were places we stopped eating at due to the frequency of machine gun assassinations (three in one year, same location).
But I do understand your point and don't disagree with it completely. The government has a talent for creating many of the threats they deal with.
Cincinnatus
06-25-14, 01:56
So, Steyr, do you have the following issue in which the author continues his article?
Man, this type of absolute injustice and ARBITRARY power on the part of the government really is not anything new, it's been going on for awhile.
To be fair, 20s gangsters, 30s era banks robbers, 60s radicals and 80s coke cartels were a true danger to everyone. But entrapping collectors at gun shows is quite a different story.
Not as real of a threat as the media and the various government agencies made them out to be. The actual threat to uninvolved citizens hovered somewhere around being struck by lightening.
Bolt_Overide
06-25-14, 08:12
There have been two major infiltration by ATF into big 1% MCs, the first was The Mongols in CA, led to 54 convictions. The second was by Jay Dobbins (hes the one who was hung out to dry over politics) and resulted in 16 arrests, but due to mishandling by moron political appointees, not much on the conviction side.
But back on topic, most of the ATF doesn't try to go after this type of real criminal, too hard, too dangerous and just doesn't look as good on the resume.
There have been two major infiltration by ATF into big 1% MCs, the first was The Mongols in CA, led to 54 convictions. The second was by Jay Dobbins (hes the one who was hung out to dry over politics) and resulted in 16 arrests, but due to mishandling by moron political appointees, not much on the conviction side.
But back on topic, most of the ATF doesn't try to go after this type of real criminal, too hard, too dangerous and just doesn't look as good on the resume.
Because the "real criminals" aren't the threat to .gov. These criminal business organizations have no power to interrupt .gov interests. The general populace is the only ones who wield that power.
So, Steyr, do you have the following issue in which the author continues his article?
Man, this type of absolute injustice and ARBITRARY power on the part of the government really is not anything new, it's been going on for awhile.
Yes I do, and I'll get it scanned and up sometime this week. What was most enlightening is they have been doing this straw man crap all the way back to 1979.
Not as real of a threat as the media and the various government agencies made them out to be. The actual threat to uninvolved citizens hovered somewhere around being struck by lightening.
I can accept that, especially as I live in the lightning strike capitol of the world.
Because the "real criminals" aren't the threat to .gov. These criminal business organizations have no power to interrupt .gov interests. The general populace is the only ones who wield that power.Which is why a standing government (perennially reelected incumbents and permanent bureaucrats) is worse than a standing army. There should be no such thing as interests of government as its own self standing entity.
Cincinnatus
06-26-14, 22:47
Which is why a standing government (perennially reelected incumbents and permanent bureaucrats) is worse than a standing army. There should be no such thing as interests of government as its own self standing entity.
Hear hear! Andrew Jackson believed in rotation in office for all government positions, so no one had a professional career as a bureaucrat. Without it, how is it government of the people by the people for the people? I think we need that now--you will have to live as a civilian under the same laws you enact on others and the same governance you meet out, you will also receive.
Hear hear! Andrew Jackson believed in rotation in office for all government positions, so no one had a professional career as a bureaucrat. Without it, how is it government of the people by the people for the people? I think we need that now--you will have to live as a civilian under the same laws you enact on others and the same governance you meet out, you will also receive.
Couldn't agree more. Along those lines, no lifetime of secret service protection. If you are wildly unpopular because of your actions in office, security should be your lifetime expense.
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