View Full Version : New Shield sans TS - first range visit. Result: 1 Failure to eject - UPDATE
So, I was pumped to get my hands on a new Shield minus thumb safety. I've shot the Shield in the past and have wanted one since, but refused since I would not carry it with the manual safety My other carry guns don't have it and I don't train to use it. Especially such a small safety level... I digress.
I rushed to the range after work the day after I got the gun to get some rounds downrange and I admit I find myself disappointed. I'm not accustomed to my guns failing. My main SD guns right now: KelTec P32, Kahr P9, and Glock 19 have been flawless (minus the damaged extractor on the Keltec (I've shot it A LOT), which was repaired and is back to 100% functionality. Even the much maligned Kahr that I own has never bobbled. Not. Even. Once. So I guess I'm a little uncomfortable with this failure in what is supposed to be a whiz bang new carry gun from a reputable manufacturer.
To be clear, I've only got 150 rounds in one range trip through the gun, but as I mentioned, I'm accustomed to not having failure in SD guns. The first 100 rounds were CCI Blazer Brass 115 and the last 50 were Federal HST 147. The failure was in the first 7 rounds mag with HST. The empty extracted completely and ended up flipped backwards and jammed in between the breech face the the slide, thus stopping the gun. This was particularly disappointing as this is the round I had planned to carry in the gun and indeed is the same round I carry in the Kahr which devours it no problem.
Also, cause someone will ask, I took the gun to the range the second night I owned it because the first night I disassembled the gun, cleaned it, and lubed with Slip2000 all per the manual.
I guess what I'm wondering is how the gang here would feel about the gun so far. Particularly if other Shield owners have seen a pattern of minor failure in the early rounds with the gun or if Grant (resident S&W expert) could chime in with his thoughts. Of course I plan to run more ammo through it, but frankly the Federal HST is expensive and damn near impossible to find right now. I'd happily run another couple hundred rounds of that load through it if I could find it and afford it. Of ball ammo, I've got enough (for now) of various brands and will definitely be running another few hundred rounds through as soon as possible.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Every gun I have ever owned malfunctions from time to time. The smaller the gun, the more common it is IMHO (especially shooting 147gr). For me personally, I would not use this ammo in a sub compact pistol (no matter who made it).
C4
I understand my expectations may be a little high. That being said Grant, what do you run, or what do you recommend?
I understand my expectations may be a little high. That being said Grant, what do you run, or what do you recommend?
I typically carry HST 124gr + P or the Ranger version. Magtech also has a 124gr bonded load that is nice.
C4
Roger that. I carry Win Ranger T 124 +P or Speer GD 124 +P in my G19.
I've been reading a thread on another forum where testers are stating that the 147's actually lose less velocity in shorter barrels than the lighter faster loads, including the +P's, and have had good results in expanding (to be fair, in gelatin) from the aforementioned shorter barrels (3").
This may or may not help, but it's been my experience that smaller guns don't like bigger rounds. My pm9 was terrible with 124gr rangers (which sport a pretty boxy nose) but did great with 115gr critical duty. My shield does great with 124gr rangers, so maybe try running a smaller bullet to see if that helps.
After a bad experience with a Walther PPS, I do not trust these small 9mm guns to be reliable. Even if I had one that worked every time, I would still wonder about the reliability margin. Consider a no-lock S&W 442 with laser grips.
brushy bill
06-25-14, 22:18
Just picked up a no-safety version from Grant (very fast shipping...ordered Monday and picked up from my FFL in TX Fri). Hoping to test it with some 115 gr +p+ as a possible EDC. If it fails, I still have the 442.
vicious_cb
06-25-14, 22:27
I would say more testing is required. You cant make a determination on a single stoppage especially on a brand new gun. When I get mine Ill be sure to test it with 147gr HSTs. Won't be until july though.
I've had similar problems with my Shield.
It went back to S&W three times. Last time they replaced the entire topside (barrel, slide, everything in slide).
I ran about 100 rounds of the same Federal 115 grain FMJ that had previously caused those weird extraction failure with the empty case backwards in the ejection port. I also fired 100 rounds of the Federal HST 147 grain JHP with no issues except 1 magazine related failure to feed on the first round after I hit the slide release and the first round got hung up below the feed ramp. I eliminated the magazine that this occurred with and had no further problems with the gun, except for getting hit in the head once or twice by an extracted case.
Judging from past experience, this is not enough shooting to pronounce the gun fixed, but it is a nice start.
Anyway, I've had other gun projects come up that has prevented me from firing more rounds through the Shield.
Here's a link to some of the issues that I encountered:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?138215-M-amp-P-Shield-starting-to-have-problems/page3
walkin' trails
06-26-14, 08:02
We've all gotten a little bit spoiled over the past 10-15 years or more because pistols in general, especially the quality polymer framed guns tended to work pretty dern well. I broke in two full sized M&Ps with no jams of any kind; but recently bought a 9c and had three FTEs during the first 3-400 rounds. It hasn't dissuaded me from carrying the gun. The FTEs were with Winchester Ranger 124 FMJ, while my Ranger 147 grain Bonded has worked flawlessly. Clean, lube, and break in is all we can do. After 500 rounds and it is still not working, then it's time to exercise the warranty option.
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While undesirable, a single failure can have many explanations - but it could just as easily be the ammunition or cleaning / lube or the shooter or the gun itself. Very hard to tell.
Now if it's multiples, especially if it's been cleaned / lubed, and multiple types of ammo that screams issues with the gun.
Just picked up a no-safety version from Grant (very fast shipping...ordered Monday and picked up from my FFL in TX Fri). Hoping to test it with some 115 gr +p+ as a possible EDC. If it fails, I still have the 442.
I tried 115 gr +p+ with my Shield a few months ago. It was our old duty ammo. In a box of 50, I'd get a premature lock back every 3-4 rounds. That was the only issue, but it was frequent enough that I'd consider +p+ a no-go for this gun, at least in my experience. YMMV
It's interesting to see that others have had issues with 124 and 147's. This is unfortunate since my preferred defensive rounds are all those weights. I wonder if it's the bullet profile or the OAL of the cartridge that causes this issue. I haven't dissembled the top half to really get a good look at the extractor, but from what I can see it looks OK. The hook is fairly sharp/square. I wish I had saved the case that jammed to check the dimensions on the case to see if it was out of spec or had evidence of extractor slippage on the rim.
For those the mentioned the 442, I've actually got a S&W 342 that I carried A TON back in the day, but for the purposes of discussing small auto pistol reliability, I didn't think it was relevant to mention. Besides, if I wanted to keep carrying a gun with a long, smooth DA pull, I'd keep carrying the Kahr!
Thanks for posting that link to your thread, Ed. That malfunction seems almost exactly like the one I experienced. Hopefully, this is not the beginning of a series of malfunctions like yours. If that's the case, this thing will go away and I'll go back to the guns I have that work.
Every gun I have ever owned malfunctions from time to time. The smaller the gun, the more common it is IMHO (especially shooting 147gr). For me personally, I would not use this ammo in a sub compact pistol (no matter who made it).
C4
I guess I should reevaluate feeding it to mine - I run almost exclusively 147gr, and it's ran fine through my shield, but I've only ran 70 rounds of it through. On the terminal side it would seem preferable, but I guess I need to run more of my RangerT 147gr JHP through it to see if that will be an issue.
I guess I should reevaluate feeding it to mine - I run almost exclusively 147gr, and it's ran fine through my shield, but I've only ran 70 rounds of it through. On the terminal side it would seem preferable, but I guess I need to run more of my RangerT 147gr JHP through it to see if that will be an issue.
It maybe just fine. I always tell people that it is a case by case kind of deal, but you need to make sure that your sub compact like the longer bullets.
C4
Apricotshot
06-26-14, 12:50
This thread is silly. You don't have to use the safety on the pistol just because its there. I ignore the safety on my FN FNS as an example.
This thread is silly. You don't have to use the safety on the pistol just because its there. I ignore the safety on my FN FNS as an example.
In your opinion, anyway. But thanks for the useful input!
wildcard600
06-26-14, 14:24
This thread is silly. You don't have to use the safety on the pistol just because its there. I ignore the safety on my FN FNS as an example.
a thread about a pistol malfunction is silly because you ignore your safety ?
huh ????
Did you clean the gun and oil it before the range visit? And one FTE in a brand new gun is really nothing to complain about. Break in period and all. If it continues to be a problem, then I'd be worried.
wildcard600
06-26-14, 17:15
Did you clean the gun and oil it before the range visit? And one FTE in a brand new gun is really nothing to complain about. Break in period and all. If it continues to be a problem, then I'd be worried.
fourth paragraph in the op. cleaned and lubed with slip2000.
This thread is silly. You don't have to use the safety on the pistol just because its there. I ignore the safety on my FN FNS as an example.
Did you actually read the thread?
Apricotshot
06-27-14, 07:34
Did you actually read the thread?
Your whole reason in going with this model without the safety in the first place is silly. You could have just used the first version. I could careless about the malf you had. Malfs happen.
kantstudien
06-27-14, 08:23
Malfs happen.
Nice relevant input. Thanks
wildcard600
06-27-14, 08:52
Your whole reason in going with this model without the safety in the first place is silly. You could have just used the first version. I could careless about the malf you had. Malfs happen.
you could careless ? i think its supposd to be " I couldn't care less".
your complete lack of input relative to the point of the thread leads me to believe you are either trolling or in some way intoxicated. why dont you go poop in the regular shield thread so at least you ramlbings might have somethng to do with the subject matter.
Update:
The gun hates WWB. I'm not shocked. The interwebs is full of comments regarding it's cleanliness (or lack thereof) and reliability (undersized case rims etc). Again, my experience with it has been good (other than being dirty)..... Until now. 65 rounds of WWB and it failed to eject maybe 3-4 times total with both magazines. Apparently I won't be able to use it as range ammo for this gun. Mildly annoying since it is the most readily available ammo to me (locall), but I'll just feed it to my other 9's that digest it without issue.
However, this brings be to my next observation. The gun was not ejecting the empties consistently with several different loads. I fired all rounds very deliberately with the so-called "death grip". I typically don't grip the pistol that hard, but I figured I would try what some suggested (IE: I'm not gripping the pistol hard enough). Anyway, it would occasionally pop empties just over my head straight back, and more frequently would have a round kinda trickle/eject over the gun and land to the left of the gun (magazine release side). It did that with the WWB AND Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P Short Barrel. The only ammo it ejected consistently was CCI Blazer Brass 115's. Blazer Brass 124's were kinda in between. I'm thinking this gun doesn't like heavier than 115 loads which to me is a disappointment. All of my preferred SD loads are heaver than 115.
65 rounds WWB 3-4 failures to eject (1 kinda-maybe fail to extract).
50 rounds Blazer Brass 115 - functioned normally
50 rounds Blazer Brass 124 - inconsistent ejection pattern
25 rounds Speer GD 124+P SB - inconsistent ejection pattern
I think I may call S&W on Monday. Suck. IMO, the gun should function well with all common weights of SD and range ammo. I can understand a gun that doesn't like a load here or there, but it seems way more finicky than I would have hoped for.
Definitely give them a call, extractor tension might be a bit off, or any number of other things causing the inconsistent ejection, and why it chokes on the WWB, sounds like it should be easy to fix for them.
anachronism
06-29-14, 16:21
Clean it, oil it, and take it out again. It needs a bit of heavy break-in before being totally condemned. I won't carry any gun that hasn't had at least 500 rounds of the ammo I intend to carry fired through it. Not all combinations are compatible in a new gun.
Clean it, oil it, and take it out again. It needs a bit of heavy break-in before being totally condemned. I won't carry any gun that hasn't had at least 500 rounds of the ammo I intend to carry fired through it. Not all combinations are compatible in a new gun.
I wish a could afford to go out and buy 500 rounds of my desired carry round. Hell, I wish I found find 500 rounds of that ammo for sale in one place!
I wish a could afford to go out and buy 500 rounds of my desired carry round. Hell, I wish I found find 500 rounds of that ammo for sale in one place!
I'd call them, I've got 115gr loads that are near wwb power and don't have any issue with them.
I've had extraction issues in the past with Winchester loads, including Ranger Talons & Black Hills factory ammo loaded into Winchester cases. Other people have reported similar issues. My end solution is to just not rely on Winchester for defensive use in this gun, as I can find other ammo for practice and defense. I have not tried Winchester ammo in the gun since it got back this last time, so I don't know how if my gun is Winchester capable. Off the top of my head My failure to extract rate with Winchester tended to be about 1 round in 50 to one round in 100.
I'd call them, I've got 115gr loads that are near wwb power and don't have any issue with them.
I think it was an issue with Winchester not the power level of the Winchester White Box. Something like stacking tolerances between the Winchester case and the extractor of the shield.
Ammo in stoppages or ejection observations from my Shield(1)
Herters/CCI Blazer 115gr TNJ, no sku erratic ejection
Speer Lawman 147gr TMJ, #53620 erratic ejection, stoppage
Federal 124gr JHP HydraShok, #P9HS1G erratic ejection, stoppage
Winchester 124gr FMJ NATO, #Q4138 erratic ejection, stoppage
Federal 147gr JHP HydraShok, #P9HS2G stoppage
Federal 147gr JHP HST, #P9HST2 stoppage
Black Hills Ammunition 115gr JHP-EXP erratic ejection, stoppage
Black Hills Ammunition 115gr JHP-XTP +P, stoppage
Ammo compilation, all rounds fired, from my Shield(2)
52rds Corbon 95gr Performance Match FMJ
60rds Corbon Pow’RBall 100gr +P (PB09100/20), 1 headstamp-up failure to feed
100rds Corbon Performance Match 115gr FMJ
37rds Corbon 115gr JHP
90rds Black Hills Ammunition 115gr JHP-EXP (new)
50rds Black Hills Ammunition 115gr JHP-XTP +P
57rds Black Hills Ammunition 124gr JHP-XTP +P
100rds Federal 115gr FMJ RTP (RTP9115)
50rds Federal American Eagle 115gr FMJ (AE9DP)
100rds Federal Champion 115gr FMJ (WM51991), erratic ejection
50rds Federal 124gr JHP HydraShok, #P9HS1G
50rds Federal 147gr JHP HydraShok, #P9HS2G, 1 FTE, erratic ejection
140rds Federal 147gr JHP HST, #P9HST2
50rds Federal 147gr JHP (9MS)
50rds Federal American Eagle IRT 147gr TMJ (AE9N2), 1 headstamp-up failure to feed
50rds Speer Lawman 147gr TMJ (53620), rearward ejection
298rds Winchester 115gr FMJ (USA9mmVP), erratic ejection, 1 FTE (questionable likely shooter)
20rds Winchester Supreme 147gr JHP PDX1, #S9mmPDB1
50rds Winchester 124gr FMJ NATO, #Q4138
200rds PPU Prvi Partizan 115gr FMJ, 2 FTE, erratic ejection
100rds PMC 115gr FMJ (9A)
50rds Magtech 115gr FMC (9A)
50rds HSM 100gr Reduced Ricochet (Frang), rearward ejection
100rds Herters-Sellier & Bellot (HRT9A)
60rds Herters-Blazer 115gr TNJ, erratic ejection
Breaking out the malfunctioning loads below. Remember, I don't consider ejection pattern problematic until it stops the gun.
60rds Corbon Pow’RBall 100gr +P (PB09100/20), 1 headstamp-up failure to feed
50rds Federal 147gr JHP HydraShok, #P9HS2G, 1 FTE, erratic ejection
50rds Federal American Eagle IRT 147gr TMJ (AE9N2), 1 headstamp-up failure to feed
298rds Winchester 115gr FMJ (USA9mmVP), erratic ejection, 1 FTE (questionable likely shooter)
200rds PPU Prvi Partizan 115gr FMJ, 2 FTE, erratic ejection
I was just reading up on Ed's and Skintops threads on the Shield. Not terribly encouraging material.
Skintop, thanks for compiling that information. That's interesting material. Your's doesn't seen to like 147, particularly Federal.
I strongly considered the Shield but didn't get one due to the safety and some of the rather consistent reports of issues.
Make S&W make it right or get a refund.
I went with a recent production PPS, and while that gun hasn't had a trouble free history either mine has done great through 440rds.
I strongly considered the Shield but didn't get one due to the safety and some of the rather consistent reports of issues.
Make S&W make it right or get a refund.
I went with a recent production PPS, and while that gun hasn't had a trouble free history either mine has done great through 440rds.
Out of the Shield, PPS and XDS, I by far preferred the Shield's grip. The XDS I thought it recoiled extremely hard compared to the Shield and didn't care for the grip that much. I almost bought a PPS before the Shield came out with a safety-less version. Kinda wish I had other than the PPS is almost double what I paid for the Shield. I do prefer the mag release on the PPS's, it is glared by a lot of shooters in the states, but for me and my short fingers it's far faster and easier to actuate.
Haven't fired anything over 124gr in my shield. So far zero malfunctions. Now I'm curious to test some 147gr...
On the topic of cases and weights... I've not been able to find enough data to support that one particular weight class or case manufacturer is more inherently or predictably problematic than another.
Skintop, on the other site, I notice you never voted on the single stack 9 poll. You also had some good things to say about the XDS 9. What would you recommend for a thin 9? Thanks
Free Agent
07-01-14, 13:59
I hope you don't mind me posting here. I figured it would be better than starting a new thread. I just received my shield 9mm w/o thumb safety last night. I cleaned and lubed it right when I got home. This morning I went off to the range and put 100 rounds threw it. 50 of freedom munitions 124gr and 50 American Eagle 124gr. I had 7 failures to lock back on an empty mag. Also, 3 times it failed to go into battery after releasing the slide on a full magazine. All my pistols with the exception of a 1911 are Glocks and I've never had a malfunction with any of them. (Unless you count brass to the face.) Is this something I should expect during the break in period?
I hope you don't mind me posting here. I figured it would be better than starting a new thread. I just received my shield 9mm w/o thumb safety last night. I cleaned and lubed it right when I got home. This morning I went off to the range and put 100 rounds threw it. 50 of freedom munitions 124gr and 50 American Eagle 124gr. I had 7 failures to lock back on an empty mag. Also, 3 times it failed to go into battery after releasing the slide on a full magazine. All my pistols with the exception of a 1911 are Glocks and I've never had a malfunction with any of them. (Unless you count brass to the face.) Is this something I should expect during the break in period?
Any pistol with dual recoil system should be locked to the rear for several days to 2 weeks. We used to have to do this a lot with the GEN 4 Glocks.
Give that a try and then see what you get.
C4
Free Agent
07-01-14, 14:51
I'll store it with the slide locked back until I get back to the range. Thanks for the heads up.
Skintop, on the other site, I notice you never voted on the single stack 9 poll. You also had some good things to say about the XDS 9. What would you recommend for a thin 9? Thanks
Sorry, I don't remember the poll. I'll also sit many of them out if my answer doesn't fit or needs elaboration.
I did like the XDs much more than I thought I would, and I've shot a couple casually here and there. My biggest hangup with the XDs is the inherent distrust in the XD line in general. I think the XDs is worth looking at though.
For a single stack 9mm, it's tough to beat a Sig P239, SW 3913. Others are viable when verified reliable.
I recently picked up a shield sans TS and figured I'd add my experiences to this thread. My initial thoughts are that the slide is well machined and the edges are melted. The grip is comfortable if not lacking texture. The mold lines are more present than any Glock i've handled. At some point i'm going to sand the mold lines off and install some of the rubberized grip stick-ons.
Out of the box the trigger pull averaged 8 lbs 4 oz on my Lyman digital trigger gage. After lubing and dry firing a bit it dropped to 7 lbs 11 oz. I replaced the striker block with the Apex one and spring when I was changing the rear sight. It noticeably reduced the gritty feeling of the trigger and the trigger now averages around 7 lbs 8 oz.
So far I've only had one malfunction which was a failure to eject (a new round was chambered but the slide was held open by a casing held mouth forward in the ejection port. It has 196 rounds through it now. Overall, i'm happy with the pistol so far and will continue to wring it out. Edited: I fired another 63 rounds of 124+P Ranger and 50 rds of Wolf without failure of any kind. I think locking the slide to the rear overnight a few times has smoothed out cycling a bit.
So far the following rounds have been fired:
40x Federal American Eagle 124 gr - no malfs
106x Wolf 115 gr - no malfs
20x Winchester white box - no malfs
124x Winchester Ranger 124 +p - one malf (see above)
26x Winchester Ranger 147 gr - no malfs
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-CT7bKEL5DMw/U82rfLATNsI/AAAAAAAAByk/H_JftlzAChM/s640/IMG_0658.JPG
My ffl just got these no thumb safety models in and we were testing one he wanted for himself at the range. All was well for about 100 rounds, then it started to no go into battery. We lubed it up again, but the issue continued. This was with Fiochi 115.
My Shield is an early pre-recall production. It was also not affected by the recall problem. Case dated 9-11-12. I have shot PPU 115gr FMJ, Speer 124gr +P GDHP and Speer 124gr GDHP non +P. I have also shot Federal 147gr Hydra-Shok and AE 147gr FMJ. The pistol was cleaned and lubed prior to the range visit. I even shot some Fed 115gr, 9BPLE +P+. Erratic ejection is not a problem as long as it does not stop the pistols operations. Watch YouTube videos, Glocks have erratic ejection patterns. My Sigs usually pile them up in a neat pile.
I did have some FTE/FTF from purposely induced loose grip on the gun with 147gr ammo. Wish my KAHR P380 was as predictable. :no:
Isn't this the second thread post for essentially the same problem on this model?
Best,
Mike
Another quick update. Didn't get i back out to smth yet. Took it out to get more rounds through it and it was just a waste of ammo. It is exhibiting the failures with Federal AE 115, and to make matters worse, it failed to extract as well. I'm not blasting any more through this thing until it gets back from S&W. I can post more detailed info when I'm on a PC.
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I just purchased my first mp shield without a safety, after carrying a glock 26 for years. I shot about 500 rounds today and it was perfect! I kept my fingers crossed and cleaned and lubed it before the range. This thing shoots great and handles gold dot +p like a full size.
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Skintop, on the other site, I notice you never voted on the single stack 9 poll. You also had some good things to say about the XDS 9. What would you recommend for a thin 9? Thanks
I've shot a buddies XDS. Nice pistol, but I thought it recoiled more sharply than the Shield.
I just purchased my first mp shield without a safety, after carrying a glock 26 for years. I shot about 500 rounds today and it was perfect! I kept my fingers crossed and cleaned and lubed it before the range. This thing shoots great and handles gold dot +p like a full size.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Good to hear yours is running.
vicious_cb
07-11-14, 16:02
Just to add more data points I just received my Shield 9mm with no TS and managed to put 260 rnds through it today with zero stoppages. Pistol was cleaned and lubed and is in stock configuration from the factory. All cases ejected vigorously to my 4-5 o'clock pretty consistently. I would say the ejection is even more vigorous than my M&P9 FS with an Apex extractor upgrade sending brass 2 lanes down. Test fire cartridge dated 6/18/2014.
240rnds 124gr RN of my reloads loaded to moderate velocity with OAL 1.155"
20rnds Federal HST 147gr
I plan on running the full 1000 round zero maintenance test. Also to add, I asked the pistol to be stored with the slide locked back for about a week and a half before I could pick it up as per Grant's suggestion. Dealer probably thought it was a weird request.
Just to add more data points I just received my Shield 9mm with no TS and managed to put 260 rnds through it today with zero stoppages. Pistol was cleaned and lubed and is in stock configuration from the factory. All cases ejected vigorously to my 4-5 o'clock pretty consistently. I would say the ejection is even more vigorous than my M&P9 FS with an Apex extractor upgrade sending brass 2 lanes down. Test fire cartridge dated 6/18/2014.
240rnds 124gr RN of my reloads loaded to moderate velocity with OAL 1.155"
20rnds Federal HST 147gr
I plan on running the full 1000 round zero maintenance test. Also to add, I asked the pistol to be stored with the slide locked back for about a week and a half before I could pick it up as per Grant's suggestion. Dealer probably thought it was a weird request.
Great!
C4
Just to add more data points I just received my Shield 9mm with no TS and managed to put 260 rnds through it today with zero stoppages. Pistol was cleaned and lubed and is in stock configuration from the factory. All cases ejected vigorously to my 4-5 o'clock pretty consistently. I would say the ejection is even more vigorous than my M&P9 FS with an Apex extractor upgrade sending brass 2 lanes down. Test fire cartridge dated 6/18/2014.
240rnds 124gr RN of my reloads loaded to moderate velocity with OAL 1.155"
20rnds Federal HST 147gr
I plan on running the full 1000 round zero maintenance test. Also to add, I asked the pistol to be stored with the slide locked back for about a week and a half before I could pick it up as per Grant's suggestion. Dealer probably thought it was a weird request.
What's the point? Weaken the spring?
What's the point? Weaken the spring?
Yes. Double springs are VERY stiff. So to reduce some of the load on them, you lock the slide back for a week or two to improve reliability.
C4
Yes. Double springs are VERY stiff. So to reduce some of the load on them, you lock the slide back for a week or two to improve reliability.
C4
Thanks Grant!
Free Agent
07-14-14, 11:35
Any pistol with dual recoil system should be locked to the rear for several days to 2 weeks. We used to have to do this a lot with the GEN 4 Glocks.
Give that a try and then see what you get.
C4
I've stored it with the slide locked back and taken it out to the range twice since my post. Both times I put 100 rounds threw it with zero problems. I've never had that problem with my gen 4's. Every time I shoot this shield I'm impressed with it. It's even got me wanting to grab a M&P 9 full size. The ameriglo idot pro's are really nice too.
Thanks again.
vicious_cb
07-16-14, 14:55
Another 200rnds of my reloads through the shield, boring reliable.
Total: 460 rnds no stoppages
I updated my original post in this thread and added a picture for good measure. But I fired another 113 rounds through the Shield on Friday with no additional malfunctions.
Soooo, the gun came back from smith today. 2 weeks on the button. Note in box say chamber and breech face polished. That's it. I coulda had my smith do that while I waited. Anyhow, I'll try to get it to the range this week to see what happens. I've got in-laws coming in from outta town so this might be a no-fun weekend...
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Due to other shooting projects & articles, I haven't gotten to put as many rounds through the Shield as I would have liked. Since my last post in this thread I've run another 100-150 rounds of Remington 115 grain FMJ & Federal 115 grain FMJ through the Shield without an issue. Not that many rounds, but both of these rounds had issues with the gun previously.
I also fired 50 rounds of Federal 124 grain HST JHPs without an issue.
Then ran about 40 rounds of Federal 147 grain HST. The only issue I had was loading from a fresh magazine with the slide locked back. I hit the slide release and the first round caught up on the feedramp and did not feed. I had this happen the first time I shot the gun after getting it back with the same ammo, but with a different magazine. At that time I wrote it off to a bad magazine, but now that I have had it happen with a different magazine, I see a pattern and it is definitely disconcerting. In both this and the prior case, it seemed that the mouth of the hollowpoint was catching on the feed ramp. I never had any of these particular failures to feed from a slide locked back while using the slide release before sending the gun back the last time. That was the third time sent back and they replaced the entire slide, barrel, & all attendant components.
Due to other shooting projects & articles, I haven't gotten to put as many rounds through the Shield as I would have liked. Since my last post in this thread I've run another 100-150 rounds of Remington 115 grain FMJ & Federal 115 grain FMJ through the Shield without an issue. Not that many rounds, but both of these rounds had issues with the gun previously.
I also fired 50 rounds of Federal 124 grain HST JHPs without an issue.
Then ran about 40 rounds of Federal 147 grain HST. The only issue I had was loading from a fresh magazine with the slide locked back. I hit the slide release and the first round caught up on the feedramp and did not feed. I had this happen the first time I shot the gun after getting it back with the same ammo, but with a different magazine. At that time I wrote it off to a bad magazine, but now that I have had it happen with a different magazine, I see a pattern and it is definitely disconcerting. In both this and the prior case, it seemed that the mouth of the hollowpoint was catching on the feed ramp. I never had any of these particular failures to feed from a slide locked back while using the slide release before sending the gun back the last time. That was the third time sent back and they replaced the entire slide, barrel, & all attendant components.
What do you think the chances are that the magazine design is the culprit...maybe the release angle?
What do you think the chances are that the magazine design is the culprit...maybe the release angle?
I don't know. It didn't have this particular problem before I sent it in the last time. It had other problems . . .
I tried to recreate the issue at home. I loaded up the problem mags with Federal HST 147 grain, locked the slide back, inserted the mag and hit the slide release. I then removed the magazine, racked the slide to remove the round in the chamber, then loaded another round onto the top position of the magazine, locked back the slide, and repeated the process. Within a few rounds I got, a duplicate of the failure to feed I experienced at the range when hitting the slide release with a locked back slide. I had this happen twice within about 10 rounds.
I then did the same thing with about 70 different rounds of some Federal 115 grain JHP without experiencing this problem. The Federal 115 grain JHP is a shorter round with a rounder profile closer to that of FMJ.
Please read the disclaimers after the photos.
Here's a photo that I took of one of the loading malfunctions I experienced at home:
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/edagain/shieldprob1_zpsff759427.jpg
Here's a bad photo of the Federal 115 grain JHP 9BP next to the Federal 147 grain HST. Note the difference in length and profile of the two rounds.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/edagain/shieldprob2_zps3dff46fb.jpg
Disclaimer 1: This is one of the few times I've been glad that my Shield has a manual safety and the only time I have used it after first working with the gun and discovering how small, unergonomic, and hard to disengage as part of the drawstroke the safety is.
Disclaimer 2: The above described exercise is generally the type of thing that people describe trying to do at home right before they had an ND. It gets repetitive and all it takes is one lapse of attention and you have an ND. It's not the thing to do while watching television. My late friend Paul Gomez often said that pulling the trigger after you unload the gun is not part of the unloading process.
Disclaimer 3: I did not rechamber the same round. After each chambering I loaded a new round to the top position of the magazine and repeated the process.
Disclaimer 4: Yes, I realize that the Fed 115 grain JHP is an outdated round by today's standards. No, I don't think what I did was a valid function test for anything but feeding the first round from the magazine from a locked back slide when using the slide release. I have about 100 rounds of this ammo and will run it through the gun when I get the chance.
Disclaimer 5: Yes, I've spent way, way too much time on this one gun. Maybe I should send it back to Glock
I typically carry HST 124gr + P or the Ranger version. Magtech also has a 124gr bonded load that is nice.
C4
is it not true that +p is wasted in a short barrel pistol? I've been told that the + velocity is due to more of a slower powder and needs a long(er) barrel to take advantage. otherwise it's just flash and noise outside the barrel. this makes sense to me...
Call me extremely conservative but small guns and hollowpoints don't always mix well. I would only shoot or carry it with hardball.
Linkscoach
07-30-14, 22:52
Call me extremely conservative but small guns and hollowpoints don't always mix well. I would only shoot or carry it with hardball.
You're kidding right?
Call me extremely conservative but small guns and hollowpoints don't always mix well. I would only shoot or carry it with hardball.
Small, light projectiles at low velocities due to the reduced barrel length? I'd literally choose a high frequency of fixable stoppages over the drastically reduced ability to incapacitate a threat with anything less than a CNS hit. 9mm projectiles out of 3" barrels have the ability to be very minimally lethal.
Seems pretty reasonable that the 147gr bullet size and shape can tolerance stack with magazine lips and feed ramp geometry to create some FTF's...
I've had the good fortune to own a few hundred handguns during the last 50 years(no kids). I observed that compact models would frequently fail to feed the top round from a loaded mag when pressing the slide release. However, the sling shot procedure usually allowed the slide to feed the first round without fail. With the small, finicky pistols I discovered that the slide must be pulled 100% back and then released. Otherwise, sufficient slide velocity was not reached. Frequent offenders were the Walther PP series, Kahrs, Stars, Kel-Tecs, and LCPs. The Walther PP line, of course had no external slide release, and retracting the slide and releasing it was necessary, but you really had to pull back hard and then release.
Flitz polish, a Q-tip, and a little effort will slick up feed ramps, breech faces, and any other contact areas. On the breech face, you only need to hit the area on the lower half--under the firing pin hole down. While you're there, check the extractor for burrs and roughness. Go back to the range and blow some hot ammo through the pistol. Start off by feeding the first round from another mag with one or a very rounds. Before you finish, you'll see that your pistol now functions fine.
vicious_cb
07-31-14, 10:46
I don't know. It didn't have this particular problem before I sent it in the last time. It had other problems . . .
I tried to recreate the issue at home. I loaded up the problem mags with Federal HST 147 grain, locked the slide back, inserted the mag and hit the slide release. I then removed the magazine, racked the slide to remove the round in the chamber, then loaded another round onto the top position of the magazine, locked back the slide, and repeated the process. Within a few rounds I got, a duplicate of the failure to feed I experienced at the range when hitting the slide release with a locked back slide. I had this happen twice within about 10 rounds.
I then did the same thing with about 70 different rounds of some Federal 115 grain JHP without experiencing this problem. The Federal 115 grain JHP is a shorter round with a rounder profile closer to that of FMJ.
Please read the disclaimers after the photos.
Here's a photo that I took of one of the loading malfunctions I experienced at home:
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/edagain/shieldprob1_zpsff759427.jpg
Here's a bad photo of the Federal 115 grain JHP 9BP next to the Federal 147 grain HST. Note the difference in length and profile of the two rounds.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/edagain/shieldprob2_zps3dff46fb.jpg
Disclaimer 1: This is one of the few times I've been glad that my Shield has a manual safety and the only time I have used it after first working with the gun and discovering how small, unergonomic, and hard to disengage as part of the drawstroke the safety is.
Disclaimer 2: The above described exercise is generally the type of thing that people describe trying to do at home right before they had an ND. It gets repetitive and all it takes is one lapse of attention and you have an ND. It's not the thing to do while watching television. My late friend Paul Gomez often said that pulling the trigger after you unload the gun is not part of the unloading process.
Disclaimer 3: I did not rechamber the same round. After each chambering I loaded a new round to the top position of the magazine and repeated the process.
Disclaimer 4: Yes, I realize that the Fed 115 grain JHP is an outdated round by today's standards. No, I don't think what I did was a valid function test for anything but feeding the first round from the magazine from a locked back slide when using the slide release. I have about 100 rounds of this ammo and will run it through the gun when I get the chance.
Disclaimer 5: Yes, I've spent way, way too much time on this one gun. Maybe I should send it back to Glock
I also use Federal 147gr HSTs and I tried to replicate the issue you have described at the range. About half way through my range session of 200rnds, so the gun was hot and feed ramp dirty, I loaded the top round with an HST and repeatedly chambered the round out of both my mags maybe about 2 dozen times using 5 rounds of HSTs, I didnt want to chamber a round too many times due to bullet setback. Even then the bullet looked pretty beat up by the time I fired it. I pretty much did it till my thumb was raw and I never got a failure to feed.
Total rounds through my shield: 666rnds :D 0 stoppages
I also use Federal 147gr HSTs and I tried to replicate the issue you have described at the range. About half way through my range session of 200rnds, so the gun was hot and feed ramp dirty, I loaded the top round with an HST and repeatedly chambered the round out of both my mags maybe about 2 dozen times using 5 rounds of HSTs, I didnt want to chamber a round too many times due to bullet setback. Even then the bullet looked pretty beat up by the time I fired it. I pretty much did it till my thumb was raw and I never got a failure to feed.
It seems to be an individual thing with guns. Not all Shields are cursed and yours may be fine. My Shield was fine for the first 1200 rounds or so. Then I started having problems, sending it back to the factory, and new problems emerged when I got it back.
When I was doing the chambering test from slidelock I described, I only chambered each round once before putting it back in the box to avoid setback.
I've now got about a thousand rounds through the pistol. After about 400 rounds of no stoppages with various ball ammo(WWB, blazer brass, AE), I decided it was worth blowing some more HST through it. The first magazine generated a stoppage of exactly the kind of failure as before. The gun has definitely improved in reliability, but again not with the round I want to use. I guess I'll have to make due with a few other rounds that have so far proved to be reliable. Mostly 124 gr offerings. It's got to be a combination of bullet profile and oal, or something, with this round.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I sold my M&P Shield with thumb safety (no malfunctions, unknown round count, probably a few hundred) to get one with no safety.
Within the first 217 rounds I had three failures to eject on shots 3 (124 gr Ranger), 70, and 140 (both M882 military ball).
This is disappointing, but hopefully cleaning and more firing will work it out.
I did leave the slide locked back for about a week when I first got it.
I sold my M&P Shield with thumb safety (no malfunctions, unknown round count, probably a few hundred) to get one with no safety.
Within the first 217 rounds I had three failures to eject on shots 3 (124 gr Ranger), 70, and 140 (both M882 military ball).
This is disappointing, but hopefully cleaning and more firing will work it out.
I did leave the slide locked back for about a week when I first got it.
That sucks. Sometimes I think about unloading this thing and buying something else or figuring out how the hell to shoot my Kahr P9 better.
I did just get a few hundred rounds of 124 HST, so hopefully I'll get to the range this weekend.
That sucks. Sometimes I think about unloading this thing and buying something else or figuring out how the hell to shoot my Kahr P9 better.
I did just get a few hundred rounds of 124 HST, so hopefully I'll get to the range this weekend.
Malfunctions 1 and 2 were failures to extract, in which the brass was on top of the next round, still partially in the chamber, and the slide was hung up of the base of the next round.
Malfunction 3 was a stovepipe.
My Shield 9 has not had a burp, since new with over 250 rounds of 124gr FMJ, 147gr FMJ, 124+p and 147gr GDHP ammo. S&B 115gr FMJ also fed and cycled fine. This is an early production Shield w/TS, DXY prefix.
Malfunctions 1 and 2 were failures to extract, in which the brass was on top of the next round, still partially in the chamber...
Update report on my Shield. All rounds fired very deliberately. Within 5 rounds of Federal 124 gr HST I experienced a failure exactly like the one masakari describes above. Empty still partially in chamber. Also, the empty seems to have jammed into the mouth of the fresh round as the mouth of that round was marred/divoted on top. The empty, once I locked the slide back, dropped the magazine and pulled the brass out, shows visible scarring where it looks like the extractor ripped off of the rim. This is effing ridiculous. There's been enough reports of these types of issues with the Shield both TS and non-TS that SW should be able to fix the damn problem already, and we shouldn't have to send the gun back multiple times for it to do so. Say what you will about tolerance stacking and drop-in fit for ease of assembly, but to me this is a quality control issue. These guns seem to be a crap shoot as to whether you get one that runs or not. I find that unacceptable.
28614
28614
Every so often my M&P 9 full sized would experience the malfunction like the one pictured above, It was corrected by the Apex tactical M&P extractor. I'm hoping that Apex will come out with an extractor for the Shield.
On the subject of my Shield, I fired 100 trouble free rounds of Federal 9mm 115 JHP rounds. I realize that the round is outdated, but it's a hollowpoint and works.
I've only had a chance to fire this low level of rounds due to the inventory I had on hand, other projects, and family issues.
I can induce a malfunction in mine by feeding it any of the Federal HST I have on-hand. It was choking on Federal American Eagle ball ammo previously, but has not since being returned from Smith.
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