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thirteen/autumns
07-08-14, 14:34
Hey guys... Leaving Thursday night from AZ for a drive to WI for my sister's wedding. Was looking at WI gun laws and I am pretty sure I understand them but wanted to get clarification from you "wisconsin-ities" before I do anything. I actually grew up there but wasn't into firearms back then so never really had a need to understand such laws. If you can confirm what I have learned and seen on the internet below it would be greatly appreciated. I was planning on doing some shooting on my Fiances' Dad's farm as he says it's legal though I know for a fact he hasn't looked into the laws seriously.

*I DO NOT HAVE A CONCEALED CARRY LICENSE YET*


Open carry is legal for all individuals that can legally own a firearm, I do not intend to open carry...

There is no ban on high capacity magazines or AR related features


no real laws on the transportation of firearms... IE firearms can be loaded in the vehicle as long as they are not concealed. No issues like they have to be in a locked case with magazines out and ammo in another container


only concealed carry licensed personnel can carry concealed


3" or less knife lengths and no OTFs


Last question as I was going to just call though figured I could just quickly ask it here is... Does Bravo Company have a store front??

Ryno12
07-08-14, 14:55
Hey guys... Leaving Thursday night from AZ for a drive to WI for my sister's wedding. Was looking at WI gun laws and I am pretty sure I understand them but wanted to get clarification from you "wisconsin-ities" before I do anything. I actually grew up there but wasn't into firearms back then so never really had a need to understand such laws. If you can confirm what I have learned and seen on the internet below it would be greatly appreciated. I was planning on doing some shooting on my Fiances' Dad's farm as he says it's legal though I know for a fact he hasn't looked into the laws seriously.

*I DO NOT HAVE A CONCEALED CARRY LICENSE YET*


Open carry is legal for all individuals that can legally own a firearm, I do not intend to open carry...

There is no ban on high capacity magazines or AR related features


no real laws on the transportation of firearms... IE firearms can be loaded in the vehicle as long as they are not concealed. No issues like they have to be in a locked case with magazines out and ammo in another container


only concealed carry licensed personnel can carry concealed


3" or less knife lengths and no OTFs


Last question as I was going to just call though figured I could just quickly ask it here is... Does Bravo Company have a store front??

All correct except long guns are NOT permitted to be loaded while transporting. They do not have to be cased. Handguns may be loaded & concealed.

Not sure about the knife question.

BCM does not have a storefront. In fact, you probably wouldn't even recognize it if you drove past. Midwest Industries does have a storefront & has BCM products in stock. It's also not too far from BCM.


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thirteen/autumns
07-08-14, 18:08
All correct except long guns are NOT permitted to be loaded while transporting. They do not have to be cased. Handguns may be loaded & concealed.

Not sure about the knife question.

BCM does not have a storefront. In fact, you probably wouldn't even recognize it if you drove past. Midwest Industries does have a storefront & has BCM products in stock. It's also not too far from BCM.


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Great thanks for the update on the long gun... I appreciate it. I will look into MI's store front. I was looking to pick up a BCM BCG, buffer and carbine spring.

P&P
07-09-14, 01:04
To my knowledge you may not transport a loaded handgun concealed without a ccw.

Ryno12
07-09-14, 06:48
To my knowledge you may not transport a loaded handgun concealed without a ccw.

It can be loaded & concealed but it can't be within reach. Sorry for not clarifying earlier.

http://www.doj.state.wi.us/sites/default/files/dles/ccw/ccw-faq.pdf

(Pg 44)

Eta: too bad you don't have an AZ permit yet. Wis honors them.


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P&P
07-09-14, 08:17
You may carry a loaded handgun in your car concealed only if you have a valid ccw. Without the permit you would be cited for having a concealed weapon. So since the OP does not have a valid ccw he cannot transport a loaded handgun concealed.

thirteen/autumns
07-09-14, 08:54
http://www.doj.state.wi.us/sites/default/files/dles/ccw/ccw-faq.pdf

(Pg 44)

Thanks for the link and the clarification from both of you... That helps out significantly more then reading through the state statues, because that is like herding cats... Just straight out blows.

Ryno12
07-09-14, 09:01
You may carry a loaded handgun in your car concealed only if you have a valid ccw. Without the permit you would be cited for having a concealed weapon. So since the OP does not have a valid ccw he cannot transport a loaded handgun concealed.

The way the FAQ page reads from the DOJ seems like you can provided it's not within reach.

If I do not have a CCW license how do I transport weapons in a vehicle? A. Handguns The law now allows a person who can legally possess a handgun to do the following without a CCW permit: • place, possess, or transport a handgun in a vehicle without being unloaded or encased. Wis. Stats. § 167.31(2)(b). • load a handgun in a vehicle. Wis. Stats. § 167.31(2)(c). • operate an all-terrain vehicle (ATV) with a loaded uncased handgun in the operator‘s possession. Wis. Stat. § 23.33(3)(a). • place, possess, or transport a handgun in or on a motorboat with the motor running without being unloaded or encased. Wis. Stats. § 167.31(2)(a), (b), (c). • place, possess, or transport a loaded uncased handgun in or on a noncommercial aircraft. IMPORTANT NOTE: Persons who do not have a CCW license may still not carry weapons concealed. In a vehicle this means that the firearm cannot be hidden or concealed and within reach.

I interpret the above to mean you may have a loaded handgun say, under your back seat.
It just can't be on his person or anywhere it is easily accessible. Keywords being "AND within reach".


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thirteen/autumns
07-09-14, 11:33
In a vehicle this means that the firearm cannot be hidden or concealed and within reach.

After reading and reading about the transport of firearms and sending the statues to my soon to be brother-in-law (lawyer) both of us have come to the conclusion that transporting my handgun inbetween the seat and center console with grip exposed (how I normally transport it in AZ) wont constitue concealed. From our understanding it cannot be loaded and HIDDEN. Either way I do not anticipate and run-in with the police and I am sure cooler heads will prevail if I do as I am not a "hot-headed" teenager. Maybe I will be in luck and my CCW from AZ will show up today or tomorow :D

Ryno12
07-09-14, 12:19
After reading and reading about the transport of firearms and sending the statues to my soon to be brother-in-law (lawyer) both of us have come to the conclusion that transporting my handgun inbetween the seat and center console with grip exposed (how I normally transport it in AZ) wont constitue concealed. From our understanding it cannot be loaded and HIDDEN. Either way I do not anticipate and run-in with the police and I am sure cooler heads will prevail if I do as I am not a "hot-headed" teenager. Maybe I will be in luck and my CCW from AZ will show up today or tomorow :D

That should work. Kinda dumb that they allow it to be loaded and on the seat but not loaded and under your seat. You're in your car for Christ's sake. Either way, they still allow a non CCW to have a loaded handgun in your vehicle.
You could also PM a member here named Chameleox and get his take on the matter. He's a WI Leo & an all around good dude.

Have a good and safe trip.


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Gadsden11
07-09-14, 17:46
Anything BELOW the window is considered concealed. On the dash is open carry, however if someone calls or it creates a disturbance it could result in a dc while armed charge, at least in the city of Milwaukee. "Up north" is probably more relaxed.

thirteen/autumns
07-09-14, 18:09
Anything BELOW the window is considered concealed. On the dash is open carry, however if someone calls or it creates a disturbance it could result in a dc while armed charge, at least in the city of Milwaukee. "Up north" is probably more relaxed.

Copy that... Thank you. I will have to look up the definition of CONCEALED and how it pertains to firearms and the transportation of them. This whole crossing state lines and going to other states with firearms is becoming a real taxing issue, esp if you do not have a CCW.

Ryno12
07-09-14, 18:20
Anything BELOW the window is considered concealed. On the dash is open carry, however if someone calls or it creates a disturbance it could result in a dc while armed charge, at least in the city of Milwaukee. "Up north" is probably more relaxed.

Got a link? I've never heard or read anything stating that. If it was that black and white, why wouldn't that be stated prominently in the law?

I spoke to a cop friend today regarding all this & he confirmed to me it was legal for a non permit holder to conceal provided it was not accessible to any other non permit holders either, including passengers. That was a good point that I never had considered. He also said it's always good to err to the side of caution & keep it unloaded or place it in the trunk.


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thirteen/autumns
07-09-14, 18:24
Got a link?


http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lc/publications/im/im2011_10.pdf

Bottom of page 2. Dug this up after Gadsden11 notified me of the window "rule." The whole

"and within the immediate vicinity of the vehicle." kind of screws my plans up. Oh well unloaded it is, not that big of a deal :rolleyes:

Ryno12
07-09-14, 18:30
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lc/publications/im/im2011_10.pdf

Bottom of page 2. Dug this up after Gadsden11 notified me of the window "rule." The whole

"and within the immediate vicinity of the vehicle." kind of screws my plans up. Oh well unloaded it is, not that big of a deal :rolleyes:

It doesn't say anything about below the window though. Having it lay on the passenger seat would still be visible by a LEO standing outside your window.



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thirteen/autumns
07-09-14, 18:35
It doesn't say anything about below the window though. Having it lay on the passenger seat would still be visible by a LEO standing outside your window.


I agree but like your cop friend said since I don't have my AZ CCW yet it's best to err on the side of caution since they broadly interprete "concealed." Either way whether it's concealed, unloaded, in the trunk I don't think it will be a realistic issue. I am a law-biding citizen who doesn't speed and isn't an ass so my run-ins with the police are virtually never... Knock on wood.

Ryno12
07-09-14, 18:40
I agree but like your cop friend said since I don't have my AZ CCW yet it's best to err on the side of caution since they broadly interprete "concealed." Either way whether it's concealed, unloaded, in the trunk I don't think it will be a realistic issue. I am a law-biding citizen who doesn't speed and isn't an ass so my run-ins with the police are virtually never... Knock on wood.

True. I figured we were starting to split hairs a bit & it's easy enough to just keep it unloaded if you're only here for a few days.

Maybe you can borrow my AZ permit.

J/K

:p


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Chameleox
07-10-14, 10:17
Let me get to the office this afternoon and look at some stuff for you. Blades are more limited by mechanism of opening, and the statute is written in a very "open to interpretation" manner.
Transporting firearms: BLUF: if you're not sure, trunk is the way to go, but you're not limited to the trunk.

Where in the state are you heading?

thirteen/autumns
07-10-14, 11:07
Let me get to the office this afternoon and look at some stuff for you. Blades are more limited by mechanism of opening, and the statute is written in a very "open to interpretation" manner.
Transporting firearms: BLUF: if you're not sure, trunk is the way to go, but you're not limited to the trunk.

Where in the state are you heading?

Thank you Sir... I know both of my knives will be a NO-GO in WI as they are OTF or botton released as I found out. As far as the firearms what I thought would be an easy transport actually has turned out to be a little pain in the a**, so I will just keep them unloaded rifles in the trunk and handgun up front with me and play the safe card. I will be in WI for two weeks spending acouple days in Janesville area and the rest in Milwaukee County.

ST911
07-10-14, 12:04
Good resources identified above.

Adding... I've never found my UT non-resident permit to have been a bad investment. You never know when it will come in handy.

moonshot
07-10-14, 15:36
I don't know about non-CCW loaded carry in a vehicle. I would ere in the side of caution. If OC, stay at least 1000 feet from any primary school (grade, middle, high). Not sure about parochial. I am not a legal expert, so take what I say with a grain or two of salt.

Chameleox
07-10-14, 20:40
Anything BELOW the window is considered concealed. On the dash is open carry, however if someone calls or it creates a disturbance it could result in a dc while armed charge, at least in the city of Milwaukee. "Up north" is probably more relaxed.

When CCW was passed in 2011, a second clause was added to the Disorderly Conduct Statute, specifically noting that the mere possession or carrying of a firearm by a person, either openly or concealed, was not grounds for Disorderly Conduct in and of itself.

Vehicles:
The CCW act amended some of the wording regarding transporting firearms in vehicles. While one statute does allow for loaded handguns and unloaded long guns, WI Court of Appeals took a stance that a firearm that was simply not visible to an onlooker on the outside of the car was de facto concealed for purposes of CCW. That was 1994, so things may have changed. Absent a CCW permit, if the firearm is stores well out of reach or grasp, like in the trunk, you should be good to go. Backseats and gloveboxes have not withstood challenge in court. As much as cops don't like to be the ones to write case law, I'm sure non-cops don't want to be in that boat either. Since nothing contradicting that 1994 opinion is popping up on my radar, I'd consider Gadsden's comment about "below the window" as good advice for now. I fall back on my previous suggestion to trunk the guns if you don't have a WI-honored permit.

Knives:
941.24  Possession of switchblade knife.
941.24(1) (1) Whoever manufactures, sells or offers to sell, transports, purchases, possesses or goes armed with any knife having a blade which opens by pressing a button, spring or other device in the handle or by gravity or by a thrust or movement is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

As you can see, that last bit about gravity or "thrust or movement" is pretty vague. CCW also applies to knives.

Hope that helps.

thirteen/autumns
07-14-14, 19:47
Hope that helps.


Thank you Sir that does help. I appreciate your time on the matter.

I arrived in WI without incident and no LEO involvement. I can say without a doubt that Wisconsin has the most hospitable people around. Its not everyday peope driving down the road just wave at you for the sake of it even knowing that you are not a "regular." Having grown up in WI can say that it will be my 3 year plan to move back.