LMT MRP or LWRC

[BushmasterSOH]

I am wanting to get the ultimate all around patrol rifle. I was looking at getting the LMT MRP, but have read in S.W.A.T. that they preferred the LWRC as the "ultimate." I know there is a bit of price difference, but wouldn't it be worth it due to the piston operated?

Any educated opinions?

[rob_s]

By "patrol rifle" I'm assuming you're a cop wanting something to use at work, correct? First I'd make sure that your agency doesn't have any restrictions as to make or model of rifle that is approved. Around here that is a major hurdle for many cops.

I think I'd wait a bit on the LWRC personally. They are switching facilities, ramping up to produce a higher-quality product with a faster production schedule.

I am very anxious to see what they are churning out 6 months from now. All signs point to it being very nice.

With that said, you have to ask yourself why you want a piston. If it's based on some real need then the extra cost may be worthwhile. In my personal opinion pistons really are best suited for suppressed SBRs, and even better suited for full auto versions of same.

If your plan is to run with a 16" carbine then I'm not convinced that the piston guns offer any real advantage. Yes, they may run "cleaner" but many people, myself included, have run DI guns for thousands of rounds without cleaning. Dirty guns are only an issue if they cause malfunctions and it takes a long time for grime to seize up a DI AR in my experience.

For a 16" gun I would be looking at a DI, midlength gas, with the highest quality and most accurate barrel available. I'd also want the highest quality internal parts like the fire control group and the bolt carrier group.

When (if?) LWRC gets up and running and producing a reliable, high quality, accurate product that is readily available without months of wait I'll be one of the first in line to get myself a 10.5" upper or rifle.

As for the MRP, again I think you need to ask yourself what about it you're attracted to. The main benefit to the MRP that I've seen is the ability to change barrels more easily than a traditional AR (and be advised, this does not mean "easily", but "more easily", it's still not easy). Other than that I've never been real clear on what the attraction is. If you do not have a use for this feature then again I'd skip the added cost of the MRP and go with a more traditional setup.

[Fringe]

I would get one of the top three and be done with it. If it is good enough for top spec. ops. guys, then I think it will suit us just fine.
Good luck

[Oscar 319]

Just an opinion, but I have found that for me the "ultimate all around patrol rifle" is a Colt LE6921 in a KISS set up.

The LW is sweet gun and the guys I know who own them love them.

Is LMT Monolithic Rail is fantastic too.

I will own both when I win the lottery. :cool:

[Razorhunter]

I agree with Rob, and his DI vs piston comparisons.
I think that the Noveske N4 Recce w/VIS is just about the sweetest rifle you could own right now, but that's just my opinion. However, there is a good chance they are NOT available right now, and there may be a long wait, in the ballpark of 12 weeks, but you would have to confirm that.
I have two MRP's, and the one I shoot, is flawless. It's not about changing the bbl out super fast in record time. It's about having the option to throw in a 2 minute caliber change, and be shooting 6.8 when you want.
Not to mention the fact that it's got a super ridgid monolithic upper.
Basically, I look at an MRP like any Vltor VIS rifle, with the added luxury of being able to also shoot 6.8 any time I want, without the added cost of another complete 6.8 upper. The extra 6.8 bbl only costs $340-ish.
I have always been a fan of monolithic uppers.
The other nice thing about the MRP is the new gas piston option coming out, which will be nice to have.
Anyhow, I got to run, but it's still early in the piston game.
I am QUITE surprised about SWAT recommending the LWRC. It seems that Pat Rogers classes generally see a fair amount of those LWRC's biting the dust at some point in the class, all the while the higher end DI guns just run like hell...
I would be interested to know how many LWRC's have truly gone belly-up in his classes though...?

[Soulrack223]

There are quite a few threads on this topic. After doing a lot of reading I went with the LMT and I am still on the backorder list. The ADC Piston conversion looks very promising:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=15229
If I could SBR in Missouri I'd order one.

[BushmasterSOH]

Yes, I am an officer and plan on going 10.5" SBR w/ a can. Personally owned. Or course the can is going to be a while until the funds are in. :( Since I plan on supressing it, does this mean you would lean more towards the piston? And from what I understand, LW does not have a 10.5 yet. I could wait for them and/or other manufacturers if that is your suggestions. I also understand that the LMT pistion is coing soon too.

I basically have no restrictions at work as far as make, model, or calibre.

As far as the MRP and barrel change, I am pretty sure this will be a dedicated .223 so I am not going to have to worry about changing it.

At this point my budget is not endless, but I will spend what I have to, to get a GREAT weapon. Ya never know what is going to happen in Nov.



I would get one of the top three
What do you think those are?

[MikeCLeonard]

LWRC does have 10.5" piston uppers.

Since you will be running a SBR with a can, the piston setup would be very nice. Most people that really know the AR platform usually recommend a piston system more when running a configuration like you are looking for.

[abnartyguy]

Gents,

Well you hit two out of three reasons to get a piston system, Can and SBR. I love both my uppers, wish i had one right now...

And yes, LWRC does make 10.5, lord knows the Sales Rep that let us shoot his on auto was like wet dream come true, later!

-ZM:cool:

[rob_s]

The one other caveat I'd toss out there with regards to piston guns is volume of fire. If you're going to put hundreds, make that thousands, of rounds through the gun without cleaning it then they also would appear to have some benefit.

My main concern would be how soon do you need the gun. I'm betting that LWRC won't be geared up and producing rifles and uppers at full speed for another few months. While there are many people that have older models that have had no issues, there are also quite a few that have. If you can afford to wait 6 months then the LWRC may be a good option for you.

Or, in the short term, go ahead and buy an LMT complete lower, get the NFA SBR paperwork started, get it engraved, and stick an LMT 10.5" upper on it for now. You can also be getting the silencer paperwork started as well. That way you have a perfectly acceptable carbine to run in the short term until LWRC gets up to speed, at which time you can just buy one of their uppers and slap it on your already-approved SBR LMT lower. Whatever stock and grip you choose in the interim will, obviously, still be right there. If the LWRC works out for you then sell the LMT 10.5", or keep it and have a spare upper to run unsuppressed.

[rob_s]

Or, in the short term, go ahead and buy an LMT complete lower, get the NFA SBR paperwork started, get it engraved, and stick an LMT 10.5" upper on it for now. You can also be getting the silencer paperwork started as well. That way you have a perfectly acceptable carbine to run in the short term until LWRC gets up to speed, at which time you can just buy one of their uppers and slap it on your already-approved SBR LMT lower. Whatever stock and grip you choose in the interim will, obviously, still be right there. If the LWRC works out for you then sell the LMT 10.5", or keep it and have a spare upper to run unsuppressed.

After thinking about it more, I think this is exactly what I would do, with one slight twist. I'd actually buy a 16" LMT upper for now. You're going to wind up with a wait on your hands to get the suppressor and SBR paperwork processed by the government. If you buy a complete LMT lower, upper, and BCG along with charging handle and M4 handguards you will have a very high quality basic carbine. Stick the optic of your choosing on top of it, get a FSB light mount (or attach one to the handguards) and you will have a very good interim carbine while you wait for all the other paperwork to come through.

Once the government approves everything and you have all your parts and pieces in hand and legal, hopefully LWRC will be spitting out complete uppers with some regularity and you can pick one of those up, swap out the light and optic, and be ready to go.

[Stephen_H]

I am QUITE surprised about SWAT recommending the LWRC. It seems that Pat Rogers classes generally see a fair amount of those LWRC's biting the dust at some point in the class, all the while the higher end DI guns just run like hell...
I would be interested to know how many LWRC's have truly gone belly-up in his classes though...?

SWAT Magazine didn't recommend the LWRC Carbine; one author did.

RE Pat Rogers opinion of the LWRC Carbines - I don't think the words you put into Pat's mouth are accurate.

In January of this year he said;

"The ones i saw under leitner-wise (it pains me to even say his name) days generally sucked.
I have seen enough passing through now (the new company's guns) that are universally running well that i decided to give them a hard look.
Until i get a hard use round count downrange, i can't- won't- make any declarative statements.
However, i haven't seen anything bad."

He is running an eval on three of their guns and will have a SWAT Magazine article on them later this year. Each gun will have over 10,000 rounds down the tube by the time the story goes to print.

Stephen

[Fringe]

Colt, Noveske, LMT.

[Packman73]

My LWRC is the sweetest rifle I've ever shot. If I had the money, I'd buy another one.

[300LW]

As an LEO, I'd call LWRCi and talk to Joe, see what he can do for you. They are still having supplier problems but are getting ramped up to make many of their own parts. Things are getting better and guns are going out the door but full production is still a few months away. Getting set up for ISO9001 will take time but progress is being made.