Remington 700 and Savage 10

[Heavyweight]

This isn't the post you think it is...I'm not going to be asking which is the better long range platform. I've been a Remington 700 guy my whole life. I got my first 700 BDL in .270 when I was 13 and still use it on Whitetails. So when I wanted to build my first long-range "tactical" gun so I could join my buddies shooting out to 600 yards (little range in Leonard, TX) I didn't even consider anything else. I started with a basic 700 AAC-SD in .308. Current configuration is:

Remington 700
20" heavy contour barrel, threaded, 1/10 twist (the stock barrel)
Bell and Carlson Medalist, Style 1 stock (stock action is skim bedded)
Basix trigger set at 1.5 lbs
Bushnell Elite Tactical scope 6-24x50 (FFP, illuminated) sitting on a Nightforce 20 MOA mount

With the rifle, upgrades and optics I'm in for about $2,200 on this gun. But the scope was almost half of that. I couldn't be more pleased with this setup. I can consistently get around 6 inch groups at 500 yards and .8 MOA at 100 yards. I love the gun but got bored and decided to try something new. I found a screaming deal on a Savage 10FP-SR (also in .308) and decided to give it a try.

Savage 10
22" heavy contour barrel, threaded 1/10 twist (stock barrel)
HS Precision M24 stock (action is not glass bedded)
Standard Accutrigger, set @ 1.5 lbs
Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 (FFP, illuminated) sitting on a Warne 20 MOA mount

This setup is just under $2K but it's basically pretty damn close in all respects to my Remington 700. The thing is, it's more accurate. Or at least I should say I shoot this rifle more accurately. I've got 500 rounds through it and it's taken a full inch off my 500 yard groups. I LOVE this rifle.

I've read that it's not as durable as the 700....it certainly looks and feels like it's of equal quality. I don't have nearly as many rounds through it yet....so only time will tell I guess. And there is no where near as much after market product (although there is still a lot). I can see if you bought the Accustock model you would have almost no stock choices. But what I really like about the Savage is that it seems to be made for us garage gunsmith/tinkerers. The bolt is much, much easier to disassemble....you can buy different bolt handles and easily swap them....removing the barrel is as easy as buying a Savage barrel nut wrench. I bought a .243 barrel (same short action and bolt face) just to see how easy....less than 15 minutes to swap out and headspace. I could never do that with my Remington 700. And I love the Accutrigger. Some don't but I'm sold. I thought is was hands down better than the X-Mark my Remington came with.

So I guess my question is why doesn't the Savage get the same respect as Remington? From my personal experience with these two rifles they are very comparable....with the accuracy edge going to Savage. Does anyone have personal experience with their Savage failing? I'd be interested to hear it for sure. Keep in mind I'm no sniper....I'm not dragging my rifle through the dirt and rocks....just some weekly range time and Whitetail hunting through the central Texas brush!

Be Safe!

Heavyweight

[Heavyweight]

Forgot to mention.....I'm obviously shooting the same loads from both rifles. 175 grain Sierra Matchking HPBT over 43.0 gr of Varget.

Heavyweight

[markm]

Savage does have a good reputation for accurate barrels. But a 1 to 1 comparison certainly doesn't say much for what the next guy will get if he buys one or the other.

Anyone who shoots the X mark trigger is nuts in my opinion. It's horrible. I don't really hate the accu trigger in the savages, but I do like the Timney that you should put in the Rem 700 a lot more.

Barrel change ease isn't a biggy to me. If I need to rebarrel, it's going to be a Krieger, and the Chamber will have to be cut... so the install is just part of the job.

Savage fits the bill for some shooters. It really does. But we run our bolt guns pretty hard... I'm just more trusting of the Rem 700 action.

[Heavyweight]

Yah....you're right about my very limited experience....and I'm not trying to convince anyone to go buy a Savage. I was just honestly surprised by the (perceived) quality.....and I love ****ing around with my guns.

Just curious....who's the "we" when you say your run your bolt guns hard? Are you military or LE?

[pyrotechnic]

I've owned a Savage 10FP in . 308 since 2004. It was the rifle that I started learning long range shooting on. It's been a solid MOA gun, and is probably a bit better than that, but I am not a shooter that produces sub MOA results on demand every time.

For the bad: It has been plagued by ejection issues from the get go. These get amplified by shooting stout loads (flatted primers w/o ejector swipe). I believe that the floating bold head design of the rifle, while contributing to its ability to shoot well in its factory configuration is also its downfall. The ejector spring has to be short to fit in the dimensions of the bolt head, fatiguing it easily. The extractor is also a compromised design for the same reason. Combine that with some tolerance stacking and I have a rifle that ejects properly roughly 10 % of the time. I have replaced the extractor and ejector+spring several times. This usually results in a proper function for a little bit, but then returns to shit in a short amount of use.

I do know others have these rifles that function very we, so as I said earlier I believe my misfortune is a combination of design and tolerances. I am not the only one however, and a quick google search will yield several other examples.

Take care,

Maarten

[Ring]

both can be VERY accurate..
both can be made even more accurate

but the savage is definitely more prone to "quirks".. reliability wise.
the rem has a way more smooth action

ive had/built savages for years... i have a custom 700... but my main gun is a AI

[INMY01TA]

Forgot to mention.....I'm obviously shooting the same loads from both rifles. 175 grain Sierra Matchking HPBT over 43.0 gr of Varget.

HeavyweightPerhaps the Remy would prefer a different load? Could be the difference in accuracy there.

[weez440]

own two savage rifles and own a 700 and 742 remington and all have been very reliable, for accuracy i would say hands down the savage. i have deer hunted with all of them and currently run the 7mm short mag savage with accutrigger for deer hunting, personally it fits me better. no hate for the remingtons as they are excellent guns and will never be sold, i just like the savage a lil more for hunting and accuracy. it seems that alot with a for now stock gun to be accurate alot of it has to do with how it fits and feels for the individual.

[backcast88]

Of the ones you've listed I would go with the Savage 10. Remington quality has declined and I can't stand the x mark trigger.

If I wanted a long range tac rifle I'd look at a Tikka T3 Tac. They aren't easy to find but it will be worth the extra time looking for one. I'd put a Vortex PST 6-24x50 on it and let it rip.

[Fuzzy-Reticle]

I picked up a Savage 10 PC this week in .223 & really like it. I think it offers a lot of rifle for the money. I wanted to handle a Tikka T3 Varmint rifle but I am told they are no longer imported. I wanted a heavy barrel rifle and the 10PC starts out heavy and tapers nicely at the end. The accustock is plenty rigid and a step up from the Houge on the SPS IMHO. It is not a McMillan but the rifle costs less than $800. You can put me in the camp that likes the Savage trigger. I think it feels fine and easily adjustable by the user. I put a DNZ one piece mount and a Vortex Crossfire II 4-12x40 AO on it. Sure there is better glass out there but I got kids to feed and braces to pay for. :)

I think Savages get a bad rap in part because of the low end stocks some of them come with. It is true that the action on a savage feels less smooth than on a savage or tikka or FN. It feels like a Ford/Chevy argument sometimes. You can argue the merits of both and in the end it is a toss up IMHO.

It feels great and I will break it in this weekend and see how it performs. Looking forward to it.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll190/fuzzyreticle/Savage%2010PC/IMG_5417_zps8b52c556.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/fuzzyreticle/media/Savage%2010PC/IMG_5417_zps8b52c556.jpg.html)

[Heavyweight]

Mine started out as the stock 10FP-SR. Here it is today:

27676

My only complaint was the cheap Tupperware stock. I personally really like the Accustock....but I new I was going to go aftermarket and that really limits your options.

Fuzzy....I think you made the right choice. You got a super accurate rifle with a great stock and trigger right out of the box. If you had gone with a base model Remington 700 like the AAC-SD, you have to upgrade the trigger and stock to get close to your Savage. And you'll be well over $1,000.

I look at my 1980's Remington 700 BDL vs. the newer offerings from Remington and it just seems to me like they've slipped....and manufacturers like Savage have caught up.

Heavyweight

[Fuzzy-Reticle]

I have owned a Savage 10FP with the McMillan stock in the past and a couple of R700s and even a FN SPRA5. Bolt guns have come an gone out of my collection and I have always been impressed with the Savages. The 10PC seems like a decent rifle for what it is and for my purposes. Teaching the kids how to use a bolt gun and some bench shooting and prarie dog hunting eventually.

I think the question as to Savage quality is also related to the military basing some of their sniper rifles on the R700 for so many years. The "good enough" for the military means its got to be best has something to do with a Savage bias. I am not saying those platforms are not good by any means. They are also a far cry from an off the shelf SPS or most R700 rifles. Most people will spend a lot of $ building a rifle that is far more accurate than the shooter driving it is capable of. I am not capable of getting the most out of a multithousand dollar rifle and therefore do not spend the $ chasing that. Some folks are and have the $ to do it. I dont. I think the average shooter is served well with a box stock Savage or Remington or Howa or most other brands. Those that want to take it to the next level have a world of options only limited by $ and skill. Shoot what you like and try to master whatever platform you go with IMHO.