View Full Version : Chest Rig 101- Introduction to the Art of the Chest Rig
There have been a few questions about different chest rigs…..just a few. :happy:
I am going to break it down as much as I can, with examples and some picture, by the different parts of the chest rig. Remember that I do not make any money from any of these places and I am basing all of this on my own experiences with every item mentioned in the last 13 plus years and not on what I have heard or read about. If I know of an item that I feel that needs to be mentioned and have not used it I will state that I have not used it. Otherwise I have owned every item mentioned and worked with it. I have been involved in some design ideas and some R&D with several of the manufactures yet I do not make any money from any of these places. I mention this because too many people on the Web who are supposed to be SME’s tell people about the superior products that company X makes and then get some kind of money, products, support, or whatever from them. Meaning that it may be a good product but the bias makes them overinflate their opinion and sometimes make them not talk about a better product. I am not naming anyone in specific but over the years I have seen this done by a lot of people. Just think about that next time you post that So-in-So SME says that this is the best Widget out there and he is blasted all over their website, posters and what-not……Do you think that they did that for free? Food for thought. I am not going to do that.
*NOTE: Most Pictures are just pulled from Google because I no longer own them and wanted to give examples.
Now on to the chest rigs…
Shoulder Straps:
This is one of the most important parts to me. If they are too big then it will not work in a low vis situation. If they are too thin then they can’t support a large load. There are about as many different types of straps as there are chest rig types.
1. Basic X Straps- This is your basic straps that just cross in the back. Nothing fancy just there to hold up the rig. These are good for a light rig and a low viz rig that you do not want bulky stuff in the way. If worn with armor they do have a tendency to ride up in the back and bother your neck.
a. Example 1: OSOE PALS Micro Rig
http://www.tacticalresponsegear.com/catalog/images/mininspals.jpg
b. Example 2: Tactical Tailor Mini MAV
http://www.blackstonetactical.com/images/Sales%20Images/minimav-2b.jpg
2. Modified X Strap – This is just simple modification of the basic X Strap by adding a “keeper” of some type to the back of the straps to keep them in place. These work great to hold them in place and it prevents the pinching of on the back of the neck when wearing armor. Down side is that it usually plastic and they can break and can rub.
a. Example: Tactical Tailor MAV
http://www.airsoftoutletnw.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/t/a/tactical_tailor_mav_molle_chest_rig.jpg
b. HSGI Modified Straps for the Denali (uses slots to keep in place)
3. H Harness – These seem to be very popular now days. It is a spin-off of the old LBE H Harness. These work well with armor, prevent all riding up on the neck, neck and support a load well. Down side is that they can rub the back of your arms and arm pits on some rigs.
a. Example 1: Mayflower UW Chest rig
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/GTG-Rig.jpg
b. Example 2: Blue Force Gear (BFG) 10 Speed
http://cdn3.volusion.com/ke4pr.p5xt7/v/vspfiles/photos/BFG.510-2.jpg?1404401004
4. Combination H and X Harness: A few Chest rigs give you parts that allow you to run it as an X harness or add in a strap to make it an H Harness. This system gives you the versatility to have both.
a. Example 1: Eagle Industries Rhodesian Rig
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/a7/7b/d0/a77bd0b9c84f18a25040c428fcb3c982.jpg
b. Example 2: Tactical Assault Gear (TAG) Intrepid Chest Rig
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/optacticalgear_2267_12817235
5. Padded H Harness - This is just as it sounds. Same H Harness but it is padded to support extra weight. These cane support and distribute weight really well. Down side is that they can be bulky and make adding a pack or ruck kind of a pain.
a. Example 1: ATS Modular Padded H Harness
http://www.atstacticalgear.com/PDGImages/7428266884824203521_1.jpg
b. Example 2: EssTac Padded Harness for the Boar Series Chest Rig
http://cdn3.volusion.com/ke4pr.p5xt7/v/vspfiles/photos/ESS.523-7.jpg?1404401004
6. Padded X Harness: This is the solid back strap that is shaped like the X Straps. Using the same principle as the X Harness this method prevents all riding up the neck when used over armor and with the lower angle on the arm straps also prevents rubbing in the armpits. Some are heavily padded to support large loads and some are thin to allow comfortable use with packs and armor. Unfortunately there are not many options out there for these. I prefer this method over the others.
a. Example 1: Tactical Tailor (TT) MAV X Harness (the Gold Standard in my opinion)
http://www.fadedempire.co.uk/cpa-blog/before-sml.jpg
b. Example 2: Beez Combat Systems (BCS) Padded Harness
http://www.beezcombatsystems.com/images/Padded%20Harness%20AK47%20Chest%20Rig.jpg
c. Example 3: Universal X Harness - My design and made by a friend ( I will go into this at a later part of the lesson)
7. Items not included: There are a few features that are not included but that I think are important. One is that I feel that Quick Release (QR) buckles are a must for easy off and on. I also like the ability to do minor adjustments while wearing the rig. The only one that I have found that you can do that is the Beez Combat Systems “Pull-Forward” design. It allows you to tighten the rear straps by pulling the loose ends to your front on each side. I added some bungee cord loops to mine and it is a great way to be able to adjust your rig from no armor to armor without taking a bunch of tape or elastic keepers off.
8. Waist Straps: Not going into this too much so I thought I would put it under the shoulder straps section. Not too many different types out there. Some are sewn on one side and some have QR buckles on both sides. One feature that I like is that some are putting elastic or a bungee section on one side to give it some give when moving around. I only can think of one rig that has it as an option and it is the BCS Chest Rigs.
The Body
For this section I am going to break it down into three sections; PALS, Dedicated, and Hybrid. Within these three categories I am going to discuss the different types, advantages and disadvantages of each.
PALS Chest Rig:
The PALS Chest rig is just the basic chest rig that is compatible with all of the different types of MOLLE Compatible Pouches. Before I get too far into it I want to explain the difference between MOLLE and PALS:
MOLLE – (Modular Lightweight Load-Carrying Equipment) this is the entire system that all of the products belong to.
PALS – (Pouch Attachment System) this is the webbing on the chest rig that is set up on a row and column design. When talking about the size of a chest rig we usually talk about the size in rows and columns. As an example the OSOE Micro Rig is 8 x 3 (8 columns by 3 rows), they make different sizes now for it but you get the point.
There are many sizes of PALS Chest Rigs out there. I think that the smallest is the TT Mini MAV (6 x3 ish it has a few extra incomplete rows on the end) to the big boys like the Tactical OSOE Modular FROG (18 x5) and the EssTac Boar (20x3). The size of the rig just depends on what you what to use it for and how much you want to carry.
http://shtf-tactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/modularfrog.jpg
One of the greatest advantages of the PALS Rig is that you can change up your gear and move it around until you find how you want it set up. You can also add items and remover them based on t emission or just from lessons learned. I know a lot of people that started with their radio in the back to make room for ammo up front, I too was like that. I then moved it up so that I could get to it to make adjustments. Later on I added a second radio to the other side. The PALS Rig will be the most versatile in that you can change it up without having to get a new rig. There is a down side in that it will weigh more than a dedicated rig and it will be a little more bulky. Adding in all of the extra fabric and the attachment system adds the extra bulk and weight. For me the bulk is the only real draw drawback in that sometimes you need to have a very small rig to sit and drive or get into small areas (gunners hatch and so forth) but in this new world ounces are the new pounds when people are looking at gear so I will mention it.
Some of the PALS Chest rigs have built in mag pouches like the EssTac Boar Series and SOTech Hell Cat and also have complete PALS on the front. These are good if you want to have all of you Rifle mags in a single pouch type system and pouches in front of them. The drawback is that it can get bulky with all of the added material used to make the pouches. Some systems use less material when making them, like the BCS Chest rigs or the Diamondback Tactical (DBT) PALS Low Viz rig. There are advantages to the EssTac system. A person can change out the type of rifle mages (AR to AK to .308 to Shotgun) they carry without changing the rest of their kit set up.
http://www.popularairsoft.com/files/images/ESS_boar_big.jpg
http://www.civiliandefenseforce.com/images/tomcat.jpg
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4227/s7300154nh7.jpg
This is very beneficial because I believe that your “Kit” is your combat life line. It has everything you need to survive on it and you need to be able to know where everything is in the dark. As someone who has lived in a kit for many months I can tell you that to do anything other than that a class you will have “stuff” besides mags and an IFAK. That “stuff” is what you are going to be using all of the time, maps, compass, GPS, como equipment, pens, markers, chem-lights, batteries, marking device, IR strobe, gun lube, snacks, ear pro, and so on. These are just examples of some of the stuff that I carry most of the time. Not everyone needs all of these items, but you may want to think about some of it. I know a lot of people that say that all of that should be in an assault pack or something. I agree with that except that I carry the same stuff in my pack, just in larger quantities. Without getting too far into the Fighting Load Lines (1st, 2nd, and 3rd) I like to have some items on my chest rig.
Some of these rigs have a bib or have the ability to add one. The TT MAV and the EssTac Boar Series have bibs that you can attach. SKD also makes one for their PIG series that can be removed. Bibs just add a bit more “real estate” to your rig to add more pouches and such. Bibs are great areas to add an Administration pouch, small items like leatherman pouches, or Push–to-Talk buttons. Most of them have built in map pouches and sometimes Chem-light loops. They do require you to lower your gear a little to be able to add them on. If you are not wearing a battle belt than a bib will not be a problem. If you are and are not 6’6” than it may ride a little low on you but it depends on the rig and how tall you are.
Dedicated Chest Rigs:
These are your chest rigs that have a dedicated layout. It may not be a dedicated to a particular weapon system but the pouches are all set up in a very specific way. There are more types of dedicated chest rigs than I can think about. They range from the small like the new Haley Strategic (one that I have not used) to the High Speed Gear Inc (HSGI) Denali and the OSOE Mookie War Rig (MWR) that are huge. The benefit of these rigs is that they are a little more streamlined because of the lack of extra material and no attachment system. For a light rig this can be the way to go. The Mayflower R&D UW series is a great example of this. It is set up with 4 mags and a place for a radio and IFAK on each side with a few GP pouches to carry all of the stuff you may need. DBT and Blackhawk Industries (BHI) also make a variant similar that carries 4 mags and has some GP pouches on it. London Bridge Trading Company and Eagle Industries also make a very high quality dedicated M4 rig that are a little bigger than the Mayflower one in that they carry more mag and Frags and such. There are also some simple dedicated like the Eagle and Blackhawk chest rigs that hold 4 or 8 mags.
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcROB76O303-NeyyhqB6tUWnM7_wqHqyQp17jQ6M5lBr1_YkuGSzqQ
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0d928b3127cc98b4a6e81ff3b00000010O00AcMWbZy0aOGIPbtxu/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00108449631820100709193317446.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/?tn=-786634259
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/4863/img1616r.jpg
https://camoismyfavouritecolour.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/lbt-1961act.jpg
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/policestuff_2322_2564213563
The true greatness of these dedicated rigs is that you can set them up and nothing changes. Like I said before knowing where everything is can be very important. I like the dedicated rig for a light go-to type rig. My wife and I each have one as a part of our SHTF set up. I like the smaller dedicated rig for driving and working in compact areas. They are also great for when you are carrying a large heavy ruck long range. They do not get in the way when moving around. I carried one as a “Patrol Rig” for setting up quick ambushes and stuff where I had to move fast yet still carry some gear.
One of my favorite dedicated rigs of all time is the DBT AK rig. I like it because I can carry 6 PMags with ranger plates, a radio, IFAK, 2 frags, and some GP pouches in a very compact kit that I can wear while driving. I also use the dedicated rigs when working in a Low Viz situation as that may are light weight and compact.
https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/001084496318/media/32960359905/medium/1486926621/enhance
https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/001084496318/media/33239831003/small/1503333665/enhance
These seem to have become more popular now days than in the past. Maybe because we got a little MOLLE crazy and everyone has calmed down a bit or it could be that people just want a simpler rig. Who knows?
The Hybrid Chest Rig
These are chest rigs that are a combination of dedicated and PALS sections on a chest rig. Many companies have started to do these as an interim between the lower profiled dedicated rigs and the adaptability of the PALS rigs. A great example and one of the first that I remember is the ATS Low Profile Chest rig. It has 3 built in M4 Mag pouches with PALSD on them and 2 Small GP pouches on each side that also has PALS on them. This gives you the benefits of the PALS system and the benefits of having some modular ability. Another one is the SKD Eagle Industries (now renamed the PIG UCR) Chest rig. It has M4 and pistol. Mag pouched that are dedicated up front and PALS on the back flanks. This way you can add a radio to either side and/or IFAK or just add more mags or GP pouches. This set up also can have a bib added to have area for an Admin pouch and such. Several other companies also make them for different setups and weapons types.
BFGs 10 Speed Chest rig is now a Hybrid in that it now has 4 elastic mag pouches and PALS on each side to add other items. It is a great low vis option for those that want the ability to add items if necessary. They make it for several different weapons now also, M4, .308, and sub-guns.
http://www.blackstonetactical.com/catalog/images/ats/lowpro-2.jpg
http://cdn3.volusion.com/ke4pr.p5xt7/v/vspfiles/photos/EAG.567-8.jpg?1404401004
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Minimal-Basic-Load.jpg
I prefer the old model with the 6 mag pouches but that is personal preference. I also bought 5 of the old model when they came out with the new ones from people that had old stock so I could have my own stash.
Custom Chest Rigs
Sometimes there is just not the option that you want out there and you are just destined to settle. Hell no, spend some money and have it made to order. I have had several custom chest rigs made for me. There are several smaller makers out there that do great things and will work with you. I have had completely custom rigs made from EssTac and HSGI (a very long time ago before they both got huge). EGL makes a great product and Summit Tactical Systems (STS) made a great deal of gear for me when he was in the business. Look around and there are people that will not only build stuff for you but they will also modify products that you already have.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1d827b3127cc98b4a6c16fa4700000010O00AcMWbZy0aOGIPbtxu/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00108449631820110606134837332.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/?tn=1788222378
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2d822b3127cc98b4a625a8a1f00000010O00AcMWbZy0aOGIPbtxu/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00108449631820120603194051466.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/?tn=-1287029052
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d934b3127cc98d1499d8280c00000010O00AcMWbZy0aOGIPbtxu/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00108449631820140716014935524.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/?tn=-229964772
I like the X Harness system the best of all of the suspension systems. I also could not find very many rigs with it. I made a design and had it made. This way I can take any chest rig with regular straps and run them into my Universal X Harness. I have also used with rigs like the Mayflower ones by cutting the cross strap off and making it into an X strap. Problem solved.
I hope I answered some questions and got you thinking about different things when it comes to chest rigs. This is a lot of information and I know that it can get be a little overwhelming trying to figure out where to start. Look at what you want to use it for and then look at you options.
I did not go into pouches or colors because that is way too deep and this was also getting a bit long winded.
Feel free to ask questions or ask for more information.
Great write up! Really liked how much you stressed importance of knowing where gear is located on Rig by blind reach.
Wow! I'll be soaking up this comprehensive, beautifully illustrated primer for a while. Thanks much.
Awesome read! I was anxious to see this hit the forum. Stand by for any follow on questions lol
militarymoron
07-15-14, 21:34
good thread - i'm going to make it a sticky.
This is just going to be part one in a series of posts. I have been asked a great deal of questions over the years and I now have time to sit down and put it all on paper, so to speak.
Thanks MM for putting it someplace I can find it......:happy:
How snug do you recommend one adjust the rig to their body? Pretty snug or some play to it?
trackmagic
07-18-14, 15:22
Docsherm, Do you ever use vests for LBE? My stuff is all on a vest, but it seems like I have a lot of PALs on the back that is not used so I have been thinking of switching to a chest rig.
Has that been your experience? Do you think vests are basically overkill? Is there any circumstances where you prefer a vest over a chest rig?
Great write up! When I want to try out a chest rig this will really help steer me in the correct direction.
Docsherm, Do you ever use vests for LBE? My stuff is all on a vest, but it seems like I have a lot of PALs on the back that is not used so I have been thinking of switching to a chest rig.
Has that been your experience? Do you think vests are basically overkill? Is there any circumstances where you prefer a vest over a chest rig?
Great write up! When I want to try out a chest rig this will really help steer me in the correct direction.
I'm not doc but I don't think vests are overkill. It's what some have and can afford. The military body armor has excess PALS but you never need it until that time you need it.
TxBlaxmith
07-18-14, 19:07
Doc, got a lot of useful info on the earlier thread, and you have helped immensely more with this additional information. Thank you very much!
How snug do you recommend one adjust the rig to their body? Pretty snug or some play to it?
That is exactly why I like the BCS pull forward design. I like it a little loose when walking around but snug it up a bit for more dynamic stuff. If I did not have it, I would tighten it up until it was snug with taking the deapest breath you could.
Docsherm, Do you ever use vests for LBE? My stuff is all on a vest, but it seems like I have a lot of PALs on the back that is not used so I have been thinking of switching to a chest rig.
Has that been your experience? Do you think vests are basically overkill? Is there any circumstances where you prefer a vest over a chest rig?
Great write up! When I want to try out a chest rig this will really help steer me in the correct direction.
Thanks. Stay away from the vest. No need for it. It is a thing of the past. Too restrictive and not flexible enough. When you can transition to a chest rig.
donlapalma
07-19-14, 00:59
Outstanding posts doc. Thanks so much for putting this together.
If I did not have it, I would tighten it up until it was snug with taking the deapest breath you could.
OK. Thank you. Sounds like pretty snug then. I have a cheapo condor chest rig. Seems OK to me for what it costs and I have used it in a couple classes with no problems, but no real world use - and none really expected.
Thank you for sharing your time and info.
Good info Doc....
I think I bought a couple of your old rigs over the years...
Using "old" TenSpeed past couple of years...
Thanks for the write up. Any thoughts on split front rigs?
Thanks for the write up. Any thoughts on split front rigs?
I have had several. I like them. They are very handy for when you are doing a lot of crawling or prown shooting. I also like how most of the split-front rigs have adjustments. That way you can loosen it if need be or vice versa. I like it with larger rigs. I feel that it is a bit counter productive for low viz set ups.
Thanks. I'm a dinosaur from the days of the LBE and one thing I always enjoyed was being able to unbuckle my gear and let it hand when necessary
Thanks. I'm a dinosaur from the days of the LBE and one thing I always enjoyed was being able to unbuckle my gear and let it hand when necessary
You should look at a split front rig. I would look at the Tactical Tailor Split Front MAV, put a X Harness on it and you can set it up a thousand different ways. Hell, I got a wild hair up my as one time and set up that same rig just like my old school LBE was set up back in the stone age, canteens and all........:jester:
You should look at a split front rig. I would look at the Tactical Tailor Split Front MAV, put a X Harness on it and you can set it up a thousand different ways. Hell, I got a wild hair up my as one time and set up that same rig just like my old school LBE was set up back in the stone age, canteens and all........:jester:
Awesome. By the way where should I carry my geritol? ;)
This aging thing is for the birds.
Awesome. By the way where should I carry my geritol? ;)
This aging thing is for the birds.
Try this pouch.....LOL....;)
http://www.highspeedgear.com/hsgi/pogey-pg-pouch-12PG00.html
:D
Try this pouch.....LOL....;)
http://www.highspeedgear.com/hsgi/pogey-pg-pouch-12PG00.html
:D
Posts like this is why we need a karma system on the board. GGGGRRRRAAAANNNTTTTTT!
Docsherm thanks for putting this together. I've been interested in setting up a very simple chest rig for quite a while now, but I've never been sure where to even start. A lot of good information here. I look forward to seeing what else you add on the subject.
brushy bill
08-02-14, 18:33
Doc, Thanks for this thread. Very informative. Retired mil (2 branches) and pretty lost on options past LBE & alice. PM inbound.
Great post, and thanks for doing it.
I had a very tough time making up my mind about what to go with, especially because I knew I wouldn't have the opportunity to try out a bunch of options. I knew I wanted something that could work with both AR and AK mags, since I use both systems. I was leaning toward a minimalist HSGI rig when I discovered 7.62Tactical. I read a lot of good things about their products. I couldn't find exactly what I wanted ,so had Colin make me a custom chest rightly combined elements of two that he had on his website. While I now wish I had gone with multicam instead of coyote, I am pleased with the rig. I supplement it with a taco on my belt, along with a few other items. Colin isn't super speedy, and his lack of response to emails can, at times, be unnerving, but I like what he built for me, which is a non-modular design.
Anyway, this is a great thread. Thanks!
luckybychoice
09-11-14, 19:28
Thanks for the write up, I have been looking for a dedicated AK chest rig. BCS seems to have some good stuff with a split front AK rig.
Doc, I'm not an assaulter, just a middle aged home defender. Other than my obvious need to find a better pistol location (still trying to figure out where or if I want a pistol holster) critique this setup that is designed around my three main cartridges I would use in various bad scenarios.
Please critique or offer improvement suggestions for this hastily put together setup. That is somewhat also intended to be a throw in the vehicle and have a variety of rounds at hand for different weapons. I'm not real big and can manage the weight just fine for the intended purpose.
I'm sure there are some 101 level mistakes here that others can potentially learn from along with me. I've never put one together until recently.
http://api.zenfolio.com/cdn/pub/lfqo0zoxzuzt/0/null/mh/8idf3rncd--03whlf4zh/s5/v120/p837341733-5.jpg?sn=2YH&tk=F5YNXlP07V_kwhBAyIDmE8EiFwmVUgQ1LD_SPXupn-M=
Doc, I'm not an assaulter, just a middle aged home defender. Other than my obvious need to find a better pistol location (still trying to figure out where or if I want a pistol holster) critique this setup that is designed around my three main cartridges I would use in various bad scenarios.
Please critique or offer improvement suggestions for this hastily put together setup. That is somewhat also intended to be a throw in the vehicle and have a variety of rounds at hand for different weapons. I'm not real big and can manage the weight just fine for the intended purpose.
I'm sure there are some 101 level mistakes here that others can potentially learn from along with me. I've never put one together until recently.
I'm not Doc, and I'm not an expert either, but having gone through a lot of similar gear for a similar role, maybe I can help by asking a few questions;
First off, the pistol holster-
You mention intent is a "toss in vehicle" kit. Is this like a farm/offroad vehicle, or your daily driver?
In your state can you CCW? If so maybe you could ditch the MOLLE holster in favor of your EDC piece on your belt line?
If not, I guess you could just store the handgun in another holster, and stick it on your belt when needed.
Actually, I'm just going to come out and say it- I've found those universal MOLLE holsters to be universally awful. :bad:
I'm sure you could find a better option than that for you secondary, that you could mount on your belt line with relative ease- G-code is pretty cheap and has a number of mounting options....Or Safariland if you need more of a drop/offset to work around pouches and such. That way you can have a better draw, and free up valuable MOLLE space on your CR.
Per the " three main cartridges I would use in various bad scenarios".
Do you have ALL three firearms on you or accessible at all times? Or are you planning on "battlefield pickup" or such? Do you run 3-gun competitions with this?
If not, it seems you could ditch some items.
What is your go-to long weapon- shotgun or rifle?
Again, depending on your chosen go-to, you could ditch some ammo. I'm guessing by the load out your primary is a rifle.
In that case, how far is 6 rounds of shotgun ammo really going to get you? Especially since you're probably not going to be carrying all three weapons at the same time...right?
Also tying in with the previous on ammo is that you can consolidate the space you use on your rig a little- for example, (and I'm totally going with the obvious based on the picture, so it's just a guesstimation), let's say you ditch the shotgun ammo. You now have 2 extra MOLLE slots on your rig- rejoice!. :laugh:
Now I also hate (personal opinion alert!)the combo 3 rifle/3 pistol mag pouches. It's kind of a waste of space considering you could mount 6 pistol mags in the MOLLE space they use to mount three...
Three ways you could go here-
1) Use a single-stack triple or quad M4 shingle, and then use the available frontal MOLLE space to better effect- you can now mount your pistol mags, secondary handheld light, Multitool/folder, TQ, etc. without needing the sideways pistol pouch on the bib (I'm coming for that one later...). Hell, you could even slap on a few shotgun shells if you feel you need them. You would also now have 3-4 slots on each side for other essentials such as an IFAK and general purpose/sustainment stuff.
2) Use a triple double-stack M4 flapped or bungee pouch- think about it- an M4 mag + Glock mag is easily the width of a pair of stacked M4 mags, right? You could consolidate your Primary mags into one spot instead of taking up room everywhere. Plus with this method you are now guaranteed 4 slots of MOLLE on each side of the rig- depending on your needs, you can mount more or larger pouches to 4 spaces of MOLLE than you can with three. However, personally I refuse to have less then 2 secondary mags on my rig, so you will use 2 slots there. However, if you're clever you can use the space behind them for either a 7th M4 mag, or a small fixed blade knife (unfortunately GP pouches generally seem to sag with pistol mags mounted to them).
3)Single M4 2x mag shingle with your pistol mags/light/kinfe/ etc. pouches on front, then 2 double stack M4 mags on either side, leaves you with 3 MOLLE slots on each side (see SKD's chest rig as an example)
So either way here, you can consolidate your gear and gain more use out of your available space.
Per the bib, I don't know what your intended use is there, but with 2 of the 3 above setup suggestions, you could ditch the horizontal single mag pouch, which means you may not need it at all.
I'm not a big fan of bib mounted stuff in general, but I can see the utility especially on a chest rig with limited space. Personally I would lean toward a small pouch that would enable me to hold a few more items, as opposed to just a flat "ID/Patch panel" pouch- more like a "map, compass, pencil/marker and similar assorted goodies" as opposed to just a flat ID/patch panel pouch. Or you could do a couple small individual pouches, for example if you had a small/flat enough GPS, and then a pouch for your compass/markers/etc. However, the thing is here to NOT mount a pouch so big it interferes with you drawing your primary magazines... It's a fine line- you'll have to experiment with what works for you- and this kind of goes for everything mentioned here.
Maybe you already have it- just putting out some extra ideas that I hope help you out.
Thanks, lots to consider! Just read and am still digesting. Appreciate all the time and thought that went into your response.
I agree completely on the Universal pistol holsters, I have three and they all suck. Yes I have a CPL and many other holsters and I plan on taking that off first. -Good call!
Do you have ALL three firearms on you or accessible at all times? Yes.
In that case, how far is 6 rounds of shotgun ammo really going to get you? That is 20 rounds of 00 buck and slugs. Does that change your view?
I'll have to think about your other suggestions. When I accumulated these items it wasn't at all clear to me I would run out of space so quickly. Good thought starters and thanks again!
shrewd yasu
09-15-14, 20:42
I'd stick with the rifle for primary. Maybe keep the gauge and a bandolier around to give a friend or family member in the event that everything goes real bad?
Lose the 308 and the guage and now your kit is much lighter (so now you can run some plates maybe?) and you can toss in an extra few mags.
More than anything I'd suggest a few classes with reputable instructors. Moor my first I had an old nylon 'instructors belt' with 2 fast mag pouches stuck on and a pistol mag in my back pocket. Now I'm a fan of the brokos belt with 2 pistol and a rifle mag, dump pouch, and medical.
Get some training brother, and keep reading threads like these and try things out, but remember to always put practical first.
Oh, and 25 rounds of gauge is nice and all for a HD situation, but if shit is bad enough that as a civvie you need to strap on a plate carrier loaded up with mags....25 rounds that need to be individually loaded sorta sucks when you can charge your ar with 28 rounds in about a second
That is 20 rounds of 00 buck and slugs. Does that change your view?
Well, I'm not trying to take a side here on what gun you should use, just give what helpful info I can. But 20 rounds *is* better. :p
I couldn't tell in the picture if it was some sort of flapped GP pouch, or a shotgun ammo pouch.
I also didn't notice the .308....
In light of the now 4 separate calibers being carried, as well as your previous statements, it seems that a little more info would be helpful on what your intended theory of use is.
For example, the first post you state a "home defender" theory of use. So given the somewhat odd loadout, it would seem correct to assume that you have multiple guns in multiple positions around the house, and that this is based on having a rig that can be used to throw on and have ammo on hand for each?
However, (and this is an issue that's been covered a lot in multiple threads here, if you're looking for more opinions/ideas) there's a couple things to look at with this- will you have time to get the CR on? Are you planning on a mid-night home invasion, or fending off an attack on your homestead post-SHTF?
Then what I mentioned earlier- what is your go- to gun? Is the nightstand gun your handgun? Shotgun? Rifle? Which cal. rifle?
This will dictate what your basic ammo load focuses on.
If a home invasion, is the intent to clear your house (is there a good reason to do this?), or hold a room and wait? I think we can agree, in both situations there, you don't need 4 different calibers on one rig.
If it's a post-SHTF situation, with your guns at multiple points of your house to defend from, since you're planning a static defense, why not simply store the needed ammo with the other guns? Say some sort of bandolier or "mag bag" like the old Eagle/Blackhawk bags or UW Gear's bandolier version, or just an ammo can full of shells or loaded magazines?
If you have the need to defend different points of your home, then another question is are you the only one responsible for this?
Seconded by why are you the only one? I think we can agree that at some point this is not going to work out well for you without help. In which case, if you DID have help, then surely they can use their own weapons and carry their own ammo, right?
If we take the post SHTF situation a little further, why bother packing the extra calibers at all? Say you have time to toss on your vest with a rifle or shotgun primary ammo load, and your handgun backing it up. Why not simply store more ammo for your primary at the strategic points in your home? (caches I can see multiple calibers, but that's another topic).
Or let's say you get overrun and you have to fight your way out of your house and GTFO of Dodge. In such a case, then it would seem to place even more emphasis on picking one primary and loading for it, so that you don't end up unintentionally cheating yourself out of badly needed ammo mid-bugout, or to have a secondary with it's own ammo supply.
Not to get to preachy to the choir, but ammo for the gun you have in your hand is more important than ammo for one in the next room.
Then the statement of "also intended to be a throw in the vehicle and have a variety of rounds at hand for different weapons."
But this would then seem to conflict with the previous home defender role, given that I see this working even less for a vehicle kit.
Do you carry all four guns in your vehicle all the time? If so, why?
Do you have buddies to make use of them? In which case, see previous about them carrying their own gear...
Buddy handout ammo? But again, see the "carry your own damn gear" section. :laugh:
For if one of them goes down and you need their weapon? But then this would seem to point to a need to un-invest from a caliber or two, and re-invest in some standardization so this is not an issue.
In case of battlefield pickups? Ok, maybe some 12ga. shotgun ammo I could see since it's so common, but how many goons are going to be packing AR-pattern .308s? I'd guess you'll most likely end up thumbing them out so you can single- load the hunting rifle you picked up...
And if you're planning on battlefield pickups, frankly any plan that involves or relies on that sounds like a lot of crap hitting the spinner if you're down to that option... :fie:
Finally, if you haven't already, consider maybe adding some sort of medical equipment to your loadout- doesn't matter if you have a full IFAK, or a TQ and an IBD in your pocket- just *something* to keep yourself from becoming an immediate casualty. Armor if possible isn't a bad idea either.
Anyway, not trying to be a dick, just genuinely curious about the reasoning behind your current loadout, and trying to provide some extra food for thought. :)
Just the kind criticism I was looking for.....JellyBean. As your post implies, it isn't that well thought out and all the points you make are all quite valid.
I guess I need to better define the intended purpose and work through all of the points made in the above posts.
BuzzinSATX
09-18-14, 22:11
Thanks OP for a great post.
Remember that a chest rig will never be the "do everything" solution. Know what you want it to do and go with that. Never try to carry every kind of magazine you hown on it. It will just do many thing badly.
I am trying to come up with my next topic and I am interested in what people want to hear about. I was thinking about the Battle Belt vs. the Chest Rig or the Chest Rig vs. the Plate Carrier.
Thoughts?
Battle belt is my preference.
I would really like to see something on battle belts v. chest rigs
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I would really like to see something on battle belts v. chest rigs
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As would I. I think for most civi's the battle belt is optimum.
Remember that a chest rig will never be the "do everything" solution. Know what you want it to do and go with that. Never try to carry every kind of magazine you hown on it. It will just do many thing badly.
I am trying to come up with my next topic and I am interested in what people want to hear about. I was thinking about the Battle Belt vs. the Chest Rig or the Chest Rig vs. the Plate Carrier.
Thoughts?
I would very much like to hear your thoughts on both of those topics (one at a time of course). Maybe you could tackle both of them as parts 2 and 3. However, if I had to pick just one it would be the battle belt.
shrewd yasu
10-14-14, 14:00
Remember that a chest rig will never be the "do everything" solution. Know what you want it to do and go with that. Never try to carry every kind of magazine you hown on it. It will just do many thing badly.
I am trying to come up with my next topic and I am interested in what people want to hear about. I was thinking about the Battle Belt vs. the Chest Rig or the Chest Rig vs. the Plate Carrier.
Thoughts?
i'd like to read a belt/vs chest rig also, as i find myself torn between the two. I generally just run a belt with mag pouches, dump, medical, pistol and am pretty much good for local competitions and walking around in the woods, but chest rigs look fun.
i'm of the opinion that if it's time to strap a whole rig to my chest i'd rather it be on a plate carrier anyway
Looks like Part II will Be Chest Rigs vs. Battle Belts. I will work it up and post in a new thread so as not to get these confused.
Looks like Part II will Be Chest Rigs vs. Battle Belts. I will work it up and post in a new thread so as not to get these confused.
Awesome. I can't wait to read it. And thank you again for taking the time to do this.
Looks like Part II will Be Chest Rigs vs. Battle Belts. I will work it up and post in a new thread so as not to get these confused.
Great. Im sure many of us have read this and not commented. Some day Id love to hear thoughts of PC vs. chest rig, but no rush. I have all three, fiddling with all without a clear purpose.
I'm in the mind set that if you have a PC (with plates) put it all on there. If you don't then you don't. In the case of chest rig vs. belts, I'm sold on the chest rig. It's easier to access from more if not all positions and it's easier to take off in case of squeezing through right spaces or being confined. I used the tactical tailor mav for years and many deployments and loved it. I then went to plate carrier and never looked back. I think it can start with availability of what you have. Also go through dry runs of all gear, then maneuver into different positions, then low light then etc....train , train train, muscle memory is key. Just my $.02. I'm not the end all be all by any means .
To anyone that would like to opine on the following please do so.
With the advent of the sig brace the notion of being able to have in close proximity to my person a viable AR configuration for defensive purposes becomes a much more attractive option. I envision that in addition to my regular ccw pistol load out transporting a suitable load out for the AR makes sense even if it is going to be packed away in a backpack in the back seat (think folding brace option) or in a pelican case in my trunk.
As such, I would think that a low profile chest rig that is quick to don and still be discreet is the way to go since it could still be concealed under a light jacket or sweatshirt even.
Something along the lines of the following maybe? I'm a fan of the wolf grey color personally.
BFG SPLITminus and ten speed pouches. Figure 4 AR mags, two pistol mags, and a small IFAK of some sort.
30461
http://jerkingthetrigger.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/BFG-SPLITminus-with-TenSpeed-460x304.jpg
Or all said and done would first line belt set up still be the way to go?
I already have a TYR PICO PC and Crye first line belt but obviously none of those qualify as discreet.
To anyone that would like to opine on the following please do so.
With the advent of the sig brace the notion of being able to have in close proximity to my person a viable AR configuration for defensive purposes becomes a much more attractive option. I envision that in addition to my regular ccw pistol load out transporting a suitable load out for the AR makes sense even if it is going to be packed away in a backpack in the back seat (think folding brace option) or in a pelican case in my trunk.
As such, I would think that a low profile chest rig that is quick to don and still be discreet is the way to go since it could still be concealed under a light jacket or sweatshirt even.
Something along the lines of the following maybe? I'm a fan of the wolf grey color personally.
BFG SPLITminus and ten speed pouches. Figure 4 AR mags, two pistol mags, and a small IFAK of some sort.
30461
http://jerkingthetrigger.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/BFG-SPLITminus-with-TenSpeed-460x304.jpg
Or all said and done would first line belt set up still be the way to go?
I already have a TYR PICO PC and Crye first line belt but obviously none of those qualify as discreet.
I think you have to first consider your "mission". I like the AR pistol with Sig Brace. If you plan to keep it handy/car gun/etc., I think a better bet than a "low -viz" chest rig would be a bag. If you have a short barrel on the AR and utilize something like the LawTac folder, you can get it into a pretty small sling bag with a couple of spare mags, blow out kit, spare light, water bottle, etc. This would be much more covert.
I also think you should rethink how much ammo you need. I recently took a Paul Howe class (he's a big fan of the concept outlined above, by the way), and he said he basically assigns 3 rounds per bad guy. So, if you do your part, one thirty round mag deals with 10 bad guys, two mags deals with 20, etc. How many bad guys do you expect to face? Even if faced with Mumbai or Kenyan Mall issues, I would think a mag in the gun and 2 spares will do you nicely. More and your mobility will suffer.
I think all of the above applies if you are Joe Blo civilian. If you are something else, then reevaluate.
kingofzippo
01-07-15, 14:38
Excellent thread. Thanks for the very well presented responses - this is an excellent resource.
To anyone that would like to opine on the following please do so.
With the advent of the sig brace the notion of being able to have in close proximity to my person a viable AR configuration for defensive purposes becomes a much more attractive option. I envision that in addition to my regular ccw pistol load out transporting a suitable load out for the AR makes sense even if it is going to be packed away in a backpack in the back seat (think folding brace option) or in a pelican case in my trunk.
As such, I would think that a low profile chest rig that is quick to don and still be discreet is the way to go since it could still be concealed under a light jacket or sweatshirt even.
Something along the lines of the following maybe? I'm a fan of the wolf grey color personally.
BFG SPLITminus and ten speed pouches. Figure 4 AR mags, two pistol mags, and a small IFAK of some sort.
30461
http://jerkingthetrigger.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/BFG-SPLITminus-with-TenSpeed-460x304.jpg
Or all said and done would first line belt set up still be the way to go?
I already have a TYR PICO PC and Crye first line belt but obviously none of those qualify as discreet.
I have a BFG 10 Speed chest rig with mine. I have several of the old 6 pocket models and have 4 mags and small Med kits in the far side pouches. It is very low viz and can be worn under a bulky shirt.
As for bags. They also work well in those situations. I prefer a chest rig because that is the location that I ALWAYS go to for a mag to change it. I train for pure muscle memory on mag changes. I have worked in several low viz areas and while others use bags I always use a chest rig.
If you are going to use a low viz chest rig you MUST practice with it. Always have it is the same location and practice getting it on in several different ways. As in with both hands, with one hand, on the run, and sitting in your car. What ever you choose make sure you practice with it. People practice with their weapons all of the time but usually lack in practicing with their gear.
Points well noted Doc, thanks for the insight.
kingofzippo
01-08-15, 18:16
Doc, I have just re-read your post several times and wanted to thank you again for taking the time to share your experiences with the various styles of chest rigs you discussed. There are so many companies and options to choose from - this will end up saving many of us a lot of time and hard earned money. Very well and clearly presented to. I impatiently await your next two gear courses!
I a glad that they help. I am working on my next one and I hope that it is as informative.
Doscherm (and anyone else with experience) I'm curious what your thoughts are on this setup for a basic, first time chest rig.
http://www.highspeedgear.com/hsgi/double-decker-value-combo-98DTC0.html
And I'm still very much looking forward to seeing your next installment on the subject.
Doscherm (and anyone else with experience) I'm curious what your thoughts are on this setup for a basic, first time chest rig.
http://www.highspeedgear.com/hsgi/double-decker-value-combo-98DTC0.html
And I'm still very much looking forward to seeing your next installment on the subject.
That is a great rig to start with. It is adaptable and lightweight. It is also HSGI, so you know it is built like a tank. It has everything you need for a class and a SHTF rig. Ammo and an IFAK are the basics. The more you mess with them then you will figure out if you need to carry more stuff or not.
That is a great rig to start with. It is adaptable and lightweight. It is also HSGI, so you know it is built like a tank. It has everything you need for a class and a SHTF rig. Ammo and an IFAK are the basics. The more you mess with them then you will figure out if you need to carry more stuff or not.
Thanks. I'll give it a try. I've been very impressed with the stuff I've gotten from HSG so far.
zombiescometh
03-20-15, 15:25
Doscherm (and anyone else with experience) I'm curious what your thoughts are on this setup for a basic, first time chest rig.
http://www.highspeedgear.com/hsgi/double-decker-value-combo-98DTC0.html
And I'm still very much looking forward to seeing your next installment on the subject.
I was looking at a simpler chest rig myself but I am now debating between the hsgi combo deal or a tactical tailor mini mav with an esstac 3rifle 3pistol kiwi combo with the hsgi bleeder pouch.
I was looking at a simpler chest rig myself but I am now debating between the hsgi combo deal or a tactical tailor mini mav with an esstac 3rifle 3pistol kiwi combo with the hsgi bleeder pouch.
I run the value combo. I am very pleased. I modifies it though. Instead of 3x double decker pistol/ rifle I traders the last for a rifle/rifle double decker. I then added the shotgun shell holder on the front of that. Only 2x pistol carriers, but mow I can carry shotgun shells and an extra rifle mag.
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I was looking at a simpler chest rig myself but I am now debating between the hsgi combo deal or a tactical tailor mini mav with an esstac 3rifle 3pistol kiwi combo with the hsgi bleeder pouch.
I run the value combo. I am very pleased. I modifies it though. Instead of 3x double decker pistol/ rifle I traders the last for a rifle/rifle double decker. I then added the shotgun shell holder on the front of that. Only 2x pistol carriers, but mow I can carry shotgun shells and an extra rifle mag.
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I've been debating for a while over what to buy to start with as far as a chest rig goes. If you compare the cost of the HSG combo deal vs. buying the same pieces individually, you're basically getting the bleeder pouch for free. I figure why not try it out and if I don't care for that pouch I could probably sell it for $20 or so in the EE.
I've also been looking at an IFAK for my battle belt, chest rig, range bag, whatever, etc. and I saw a thread in the Emergency First Aid section of the forum where a lot of people recommend the Dark Star DARK IFAK. I asked a question there what people's opinion is of the pouch it comes in if you buy the complete kit, but noone has responded yet.
Thanks!!! Great writeup and tons of great info but I've got a question as I'm currently running an HSGI battle belt with HSGI tacos and G code RTI so I can swap my holsters around...been thinking of adding a chest rig but I can't decide if I want a rig or a plate carrier?
I see the benefits of the rigs(lower profile, comfort, cost) but I also think that if shit ever really did get bad and I actually needed to utilize any of this stuff for something other than a class or comp, I'd want a plate carrier and I'd want to have trained with and be familiar with it.
Thoughts?
Both. Have a plate carrier when funds are available. I have a full plate carrier set up like I had in Afghanistan. I also run the above described HSGI chest rig. One for travel and one for shtf.
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sevenhelmet
03-20-15, 20:59
This is a really timely thread for me. I've been thinking about a chest rig vs. torso armor lately. Sounds like I might want to get both. I think I will start with the HGSI chest rig, since I really like the way it's set up, and get a vest/PC later on.
My question for Doc (or whoever has experience) is, what about an armor vest and carrier with plate pockets (like the PROMax tactical vest on bulletproofme.com), versus just a PC with plates? Seems like the soft armor would provide increased protection, especially on the sides. Better? Or too restrictive?
Both. Have a plate carrier when funds are available. I have a full plate carrier set up like I had in Afghanistan. I also run the above described HSGI chest rig. One for travel and one for shtf.
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Great advice...and thank you!
Pure coincidence that I happen upon this thread right after I was looking at chest rigs at SKD. I'll be back to review. Thanks!
Glad to help!
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This is a really timely thread for me. I've been thinking about a chest rig vs. torso armor lately. Sounds like I might want to get both. I think I will start with the HGSI chest rig, since I really like the way it's set up, and get a vest/PC later on.
My question for Doc (or whoever has experience) is, what about an armor vest and carrier with plate pockets (like the PROMax tactical vest on bulletproofme.com), versus just a PC with plates? Seems like the soft armor would provide increased protection, especially on the sides. Better? Or too restrictive?
Your idea is almost what I do. I like as much versatility as possible. I have a Beez Combat slick carrier with soft armor and plates. I wear a chest rig over it. If I want to really gear up I take the plates out and put them into a BFG Plate minus and wear it over over the vest. Like I said, that is the most versatile set up that I have come up with.
sevenhelmet
03-24-15, 12:07
Thanks, Doc. I think I'll work toward a setup like that. Chest rig will be my next gear purchase.
I don't think I ever properly thanked you for this thread.
It helped me land on a a Tactical Tailor split MAV with x-harness (in coyote). I also got the mid-section Velcro piece to cover the buckles and utilize the space, as well.
I have a DSG riggers belt with Velcro inner belt that I can wear for more minimal situations, or for combining with the chest rig to spread out the load.
Thanks for this great post, as it helped me tremendously.
I don't think I ever properly thanked you for this thread.
It helped me land on a a Tactical Tailor split MAV with x-harness (in coyote). I also got the mid-section Velcro piece to cover the buckles and utilize the space, as well.
I have a DSG riggers belt with Velcro inner belt that I can wear for more minimal situations, or for combining with the chest rig to spread out the load.
Thanks for this great post, as it helped me tremendously.
That sounds like a good set up. I am glad I could help.
remington79
03-24-15, 22:45
I don't need a lot of gear I just want something slick and simple. I've been looking at these and am not sure if the split front or the regular is the way to go. http://www.uwgearinc.com/minuteman-mkiii.html http://www.uwgearinc.com/swamp-fox-mkiii.html For what I need and want these seem to fit the bill.
I don't need a lot of gear I just want something slick and simple. I've been looking at these and am not sure if the split front or the regular is the way to go. http://www.uwgearinc.com/minuteman-mkiii.html http://www.uwgearinc.com/swamp-fox-mkiii.html For what I need and want these seem to fit the bill.
Good rigs, I have been looking at them for some time. I would lean more twords the split front for several reasons. Primarily because it is faster and easier yo get on and off.
That sounds like a good set up. I am glad I could help.
Yeah it's actually more than I NEEDED, but I will be glad I have the rig in those few occasions where I will be using it, haha.
remington79
03-25-15, 22:14
Thanks for the input. I'm just a civilian so I don't need anything extra hanging off of my gear. I just want something streamlined. I like the UW Gear because they have flaps to cover the mags.
Anyone using the haley strategic d3?
I like the idea of same setup being on a chest rig and then easily transfered to a PC but I want to know how the quality is kn this particular rigs Mag pouches as compared to hsgi tacos as my plan has been to just get a PC and outfit it with tacos.
Any feedback on d3 would be great!
Anyone using the haley strategic d3?
I like the idea of same setup being on a chest rig and then easily transfered to a PC but I want to know how the quality is kn this particular rigs Mag pouches as compared to hsgi tacos as my plan has been to just get a PC and outfit it with tacos.
Any feedback on d3 would be great!
I remembered there was a thread on this one. Maybe more, but this is the one I found.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=129613
Anyone using the haley strategic d3?
I like the idea of same setup being on a chest rig and then easily transfered to a PC but I want to know how the quality is kn this particular rigs Mag pouches as compared to hsgi tacos as my plan has been to just get a PC and outfit it with tacos.
Any feedback on d3 would be great!
I have a d3( yet another rig in my collection) and it is a great little rig. As quality goes it is very good. I feel that HSGI is some of the best quality gear around and it tough to beat. So far the d3 rig has held up well. I lime the idea of taking off my rig and wearing it without armor. That is why I tried it out.
I like that idea as well...but I have been thinking that if I wanted to run without armor I could just run without the plates but still be running the same system/configuration.
I like that idea as well...but I have been thinking that if I wanted to run without armor I could just run without the plates but still be running the same system/configuration.
Wouldn't that make your PC all saggy and floppy?
Not sure...would it?
Yes it will.
Once again...thank you! Quick question as I'm going to go with a d3, anyone running one on the first spear stt PC from SDK Tactical? I like the tubes but I realize it will need to be retro fitted with swift clips and some sort of velcro on the front.
I own these two items, how would you rate them for civilian use?
http://www.condoroutdoor.com/Condor-CS.aspx
http://store.pantacusa.com/vests/chest-rigs/integrated-chest-rig-cordura.html
I know these aren't the best quality, far from it. But for someone who just wants a way to carry spare mags and a water bladder, maybe an IFAK and cleaning gear would they work?
I want to take a carbine course and would like some sort of chest rig for it. I'd like some suggestions from the pros for a no-frills CR just for mags and the essentials. Thanks.
I want to take a carbine course and would like some sort of chest rig for it. I'd like some suggestions from the pros for a no-frills CR just for mags and the essentials. Thanks.
I think the best bang for your buck is the SKD-Eagle Redux. But, if you want it to interface with a PC, Mayflower is very highly recommended.
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I think the best bang for your buck is the SKD-Eagle Redux. But, if you want it to interface with a PC, Mayflower is very highly recommended.
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I don't plan on needing a PC as of now. I'll check that out, thanks.
Edit - I'm not finding that one. Do you have a link? Thanks.
Moose-Knuckle
04-03-15, 05:04
I'd like some suggestions from the pros for a no-frills CR just for mags and the essentials. Thanks.
BFG Essential Kit:
https://www.blueforcegear.com/essential-kit.html
For about $60 less their discontinued 10-Speed rig can still be found at retailers.
http://www.skdtac.com/Blue-Force-Gear-Ten-Speed-Chest-Rig-p/bfg.510.htm
Sorry, when I wrote my earlier post I couldn't remember what it was called.
Link (http://www.skdtac.com/PIG-UCR-Universal-Chest-Rig-p/pig.667.htm)
They really upped the price though. The Eagle version was like $80, then they made this which started at like $95 or $99. Now its $125...
Inkslinger
04-03-15, 13:29
Sorry, when I wrote my earlier post I couldn't remember what it was called.
Link (http://www.skdtac.com/PIG-UCR-Universal-Chest-Rig-p/pig.667.htm)
They really upped the price though. The Eagle version was like $80, then they made this which started at like $95 or $99. Now its $125...
On SKD's site in their scrolling banner it does show a "rereleased" UCR for $99. When you click on it, it takes you to the UCR for $125. I have a UCR I think it a quality piece of equipment. I grabbed some double esstac kywi wedges for the two open top pouches. I think they were a good addition, but I don't think they offer the doubles anymore.
On SKD's site in their scrolling banner it does show a "rereleased" UCR for $99. When you click on it, it takes you to the UCR for $125. I have a UCR I think it a quality piece of equipment. I grabbed some double esstac kywi wedges for the two open top pouches. I think they were a good addition, but I don't think they offer the doubles anymore.
I'm emailing them now about that. Thanks.
Inkslinger
04-03-15, 15:01
I'm emailing them now about that. Thanks.
Somebody must have made a mistake. It's not on the scrolling banner anymore. It's still worth it at $125 though.
ETA:
They have a black and multicam in the demo section for $79.
http://www.skdtac.com/product-p/dmo.318.htm
http://www.skdtac.com/product-p/dmo.380.htm
Somebody must have made a mistake. It's not on the scrolling banner anymore. It's still worth it at $125 though.
ETA:
They have a black and multicam in the demo section for $79.
http://www.skdtac.com/product-p/dmo.318.htm
http://www.skdtac.com/product-p/dmo.380.htm
You, sir, are awesome! I just ordered a demo black one.
Inkslinger
04-03-15, 16:02
You, sir, are awesome! I just ordered a demo black one.
I don't think you'll be disappointed.
Docsherm... is it possible to see photos of your rigs on you to better see how they fit and you run them?
So what about an IFAK on the side of the UCR?
So what about an IFAK on the side of the UCR?
Since it only has 2 channels you are limited. There are a few good options. Here are some that I would suggest:
- HSGI Bleeder pouch - Does not carry a lot but is compact and will not get in your way.
http://www.skdtac.com/HSGI-Improved-Bleeder-Blowout-Pouch-Modular-p/hsg.205.htm
- Esstac DST Blow Out Medical Pouch - Also low profile does not carry a lot but is removable and has a place for a TQ.
http://www.skdtac.com/Esstac-DST-Blow-Out-Medical-Pouch-p/ess.246.htm
- ATS Small Upright GP Pouch with Insert - It can carry a little more and can also double as a GP pouch.
http://www.skdtac.com/ATS-Small-Upright-GP-Pouch-p/ats.117.htm
http://www.skdtac.com/ATS-Low-Profile-Medical-Insert-p/ats.111.htm
Docsherm... is it possible to see photos of your rigs on you to better see how they fit and you run them?
As is is now I do not have moist of the rigs anymore. I only have three at this time, the BFG 10 Speed, a BCS Tactical 5 pocket , and a my custom Summit Tactical Systems (STS) Chest rig. All of which are set up to be worn with and without body armor.
What are you looking for?
bigjack7440
11-03-15, 01:49
I like the mayflower
Hope I can find a BIG RIG !!
Sent from my rocket ship using
My cell'y35739
New to the forum, just found this. I really dig this thread, but I see that it's kinda dead. Sucks. Good info in here. I love building/playing with rigs but I have no combat or real world experience so threads like this are a Godsend.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
New to the forum, just found this. I really dig this thread, but I see that it's kinda dead. Sucks. Good info in here. I love building/playing with rigs but I have no combat or real world experience so threads like this are a Godsend.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
If you have any questions feel free to post them here or PM me.
If you have any questions feel free to post them here or PM me.Wilco, doc.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
I've been a DIY type of guy for decades now. I used to modify my LC-1 and LBV gear before I even went active duty, as I was conditioning myself for ruck marching before joining, collecting gear since I was a kid, and had my own full allotment of basic issue TA-50 beforehand. After wearing it for a while, I realized it basically sucked, too many pieces of metal digging into you, poor suspension and attachment systems, poor load distribution due to pistol belt foundation dated to at least the early 1900s, if not earlier, poor pouch closure systems for the most part, exposed metal fasteners all over, lack of secure pouch attachment, etc.
MOLLE/PALS was a godsend for those of us who actually lived out of our gear. I started making my own MOLLE harnesses and vests right away, when we were still using LC-1 garbage.
This is one of my heavier chest rigs that is a bit overkill for most people's liking. Just on one panel, you can carry 2 mag pouches, a SAW pouch, and a 3-wide utility or IFAK pouch.
The harness has integrated hydration hose management if you look carefully. I've been doing this on my personal vests dating way back, and even built my LC-1 suspenders to hide it when we had to wear that crap. I put one of the smaller Camelbaks in my buttpack to conceal it back in the day, so some SGM wouldn't freak out (they did anyway).
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/21st%20Century%20Load%20Bearing%20Kit/20170221_132230_zpse0nsogac.jpg
Here's a little Micro Rig with integrated hydration I made for a friend recently. I also made him the CZ Scorpion pouches and NODs pouch for his PVS-14s. All my pouches are padded and lined with 400D packcloth to protect the contents, especially feed lips and electronics like Radios, LRFs, and NODs. I was in 4 different Airborne units, so I saw a lot of gear get pounded on jumps, and thought that pouches should be padded by default. I also saw a lot of binding tape get ripped off the edges of pack flaps and pouches because it was only single-stitched, so I double or triple my stitches, and sometimes bar-tack stress points where I've seen stuff fail before.
This one is pretty deceptive at first when you look at it. Seems like a simple little chest rig at first, but it has hidden features throughout.
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/21st%20Century%20Load%20Bearing%20Kit/IMG_0448_zpsnnipjhts.jpg
Doubles as a PC, fully modular with every major component removable and replaceable for different loads if he wanted.
Shown with exposed SAPI plate. I made my own covers for SAPI plates that include retention for split-front harnesses as well.
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/21st%20Century%20Load%20Bearing%20Kit/20171130_084123_zps9nvnmzte.jpg
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/21st%20Century%20Load%20Bearing%20Kit/20171128_154643_zpswjcb1lfh.jpg
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/21st%20Century%20Load%20Bearing%20Kit/20171128_154726_zpsfxyrfigt.jpg
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/21st%20Century%20Load%20Bearing%20Kit/20171130_082048_zpsfnar6fid.jpg
One thing I have done with my own Camelbak pouches is incorporate a survival meal pouch inside of them. I take a broken down MRE bag and put in a low-profile meal plus maybe an energy bar and keep them in the survival pouch for an emergency meal, not a normal meal feed plan. This hydration pouch is also insulated, padded, and lined with 400D packcloth, semi-rigid, detachable for ease of filling, and integrated with channels through the padded harness for no-snag hose management. Most hose management loops I have seen still allow snag, seem like after-thoughts to me, so I've made my own to allow the very least amount of hose exposure as possible.
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/21st%20Century%20Load%20Bearing%20Kit/20171130_082447_zpsrisj81e9.jpg
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/21st%20Century%20Load%20Bearing%20Kit/20171130_082457_zpsccflmj4t.jpg
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/21st%20Century%20Load%20Bearing%20Kit/20171130_083643_zpsydtmsvvr.jpg
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/21st%20Century%20Load%20Bearing%20Kit/20171130_084706_zpsubi6vuk5.jpg
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/21st%20Century%20Load%20Bearing%20Kit/20171130_084740_zps8qevusej.jpg
horsefighting
12-04-17, 19:31
Looks great - I really like the hose concealment you have. Really well done!
I'm a DIYer also and have made my own placards (before they were a thing), chest rigs, and have modified tons of gear for friends. I really found my niche with modifying gear.
Here's a couple examples -
You can't tell but this used to have 2 inch straps and buckles, was poorly sewn, and was about 3 channels of MOLLE per side wider. I took it apart, replaced it with the h-harness you see now, and shortened it to 7 channels per side.
https://i.imgur.com/95NHXV0.jpg
This is a SADF M83 chest rig. I didn't do all the mods on this but I did take the mag pouches off, shorten them 1 inch to accommodate M4 mags better and re-enforced the flaps.
https://i.imgur.com/ko2owuM.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/BV9R1ye.jpg
I also have a Mayflower UW Gen 1 that I turned into a Gen 4. I can't find pictures right now but you can imagine what it looks like.
Just finished this one. Split front buckle placement is done so that it doesn't look like a split front when worn.
With the hydration pouch integrated, it really balances out the weight on front and back, even when the bladder is depleted. Doesn't feel like that lean-forward neck pressure of a webbing-based chest harness.
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/21st%20Century%20Load%20Bearing%20Kit/20171213_170355_zpsn3kvmy0s.jpg
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/21st%20Century%20Load%20Bearing%20Kit/20171213_170505_zpspghvwckj.jpg
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/21st%20Century%20Load%20Bearing%20Kit/20171213_170711_zpszlcq5ym4.jpg
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/21st%20Century%20Load%20Bearing%20Kit/20171213_170824_zpsk9f3fhcj.jpg
A little history on where chest rigs started to gain popularity with certain elements within the US military.
The Army SF personnel who led cross-border missions into Laos and later Cambodia from Studies and Observation Group frequently wore an NVA/Chicom AK chest harness over some type of M-1956 LBE or STABO rig.
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/img_8687.jpg
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/Vietnam/60562b05-6fa0-4c1c-806e-4bc1c0526f52_zpsygmgamke.jpg
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/Vietnam/6c2e6f231bbd19ad3279e065cd203584--vietnam-veterans-american-war_zpslvtyrxuh.jpg
When I was in Corps LRS, I noticed some of the guys in the Company did it using Eagle or original Blackhawk chest rigs over modified LC-1 suspenders with all the meat hooks cut off, 4 x 30rd M16 mag pouches, canteen pouches, strobe lights, etc.
What that offered was a way to carry smokes and frags plus a double basic load, while offering a slim/quiet set-up after you had set into a hide site. Your ruck and LCE would stay in the hide while going out on R&S, and you could carry what you needed in the chest rig for R&S without being burdened down with the LCE.
I bought a British DPM chest rig from the local surplus store in Tacoma, which worked about the same but was made from better materials than Chicom garbage. I would use that for going to the range just to have a quick ammo load out to grab and go.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/iYAAAOSw5jpZgxGd/s-l300.jpg
At the time, 2/75 had contracted with the Tactical Tailor, Logan Coffee, to make their Ranger Racks, which were very minimal chest rigs that held a row of mags nicely over their RBA, with some pouches on the sides for additional items. That later evolved into the MAV. One of the best things that came from the MAV was the X harness, which is very similar to the British PCLE kit harness. The PLCE has mesh on the back panel, and several points of adjustment to fit the user up and down the back, very comfortable kit.
My take on most chest rigs is that they have traditionally been approached more from an ease of manufacture than comfort and function perspective. I always feel like the load is trying to pull me forward due to the imbalanced center of gravity with everything on front, so they worked better when the load was kept to a minimum. The MAV X harness is the exception to that. Because pretty much every design I've seen is cut in a basic rectangle pattern, access to the side pouches often feels like trying to dig into your armpit, so ease of access to side pouch contents is cumbersome at best.
Around that time, we started using the original black sleeved Camelbaks. We tried wearing them under BDU tops, attaching them to LCE, and guys in other places had pouches sewn onto their TAC vests that were popular in that era. Eagle made those, which were heavy mesh-based OD with the 6 M16 mag pouches with flap and hook/pile tape closure across the front. Tactical Tailor made his own versions of those with Camelbak pouches, but there wasn't really any good solution for Camelbak integration with chest rigs.
I've taken all these design and performance considerations into account when I started making my own chest harnesses. Some of the things are really subtle, but make a huge difference compared to what we used to have.
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