View Full Version : Your thoughts?
Belmont31R
07-16-14, 22:46
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/17/6ubeju9y.jpg
Our local PD has been running ghost markings more and more. Won't pull over for one of them myself. Not a regular problem for me but only regular fully marked squad cars should be pulling people over.
My thoughts: I'm surprised to see a longstanding member post something like this on this board. You know it will be inflammatory, divisive, watched closely, and closed the minute it inevitably turns ugly.
You can use your time any way you want, I just wonder why you bother.
My thoughts: I'm surprised to see a longstanding member post something like this on this board. You know it will be inflammatory, divisive, watched closely, and closed the minute it inevitably turns ugly.
You can use your time any way you want, I just wonder why you bother.
^^This
Unmarked cars are important. But I know around here they are very much in the minority. State police has a number of them for traffic stops but all the local PDs only have a couple. All the other cars are very blatant as to what they are. One PD has switched to black Chargers but the markings are bright yellow and white.
Belmont31R
07-16-14, 23:09
My thoughts: I'm surprised to see a longstanding member post something like this on this board. You know it will be inflammatory, divisive, watched closely, and closed the minute it inevitably turns ugly.
You can use your time any way you want, I just wonder why you bother.
As I said my local PD is running ghost marked cars more and more. It's a security concern because criminals have been posing as cops for decades and I'd like opinions on how that is handled.
If you instantly take offense to that then that is on you. I was based out of Germany for 4 years so I'm well aware of what that image means.
Belmont31R
07-16-14, 23:12
^^This
Unmarked cars are important. But I know around here they are very much in the minority. State police has a number of them for traffic stops but all the local PDs only have a couple. All the other cars are very blatant as to what they are. One PD has switched to black Chargers but the markings are bright yellow and white.
Blatant cars aren't an issue. I don't see how unmarked cars or ghost markings are legal for traffic stops.
I prefer BMW's :)
Unless they're undercover types doing their thing I don't think police, highway patrol types, should be rolling low-pro. If the objective is to get people to obey traffic laws then they should be a visible presence, which is much more of a deterrent.
Belmont31R
07-16-14, 23:24
I prefer BMW's :)
Unless they're undercover types doing their thing I don't think police, highway patrol types, should be rolling low-pro. If the objective is to get people to obey traffic laws then they should be a visible presence, which is much more of a deterrent.
We saw an officer trying to control an intersection because of a stalled vehicle. She was in the new Explorer. White, with silver markings. Had a hell of a time. These ghost markings come into play besides traffic stops.
There's no way to tell if that car is Johnny the Rapist or a legit police officer. And I hate the people who drive around decommissioned cop cars! Specifically the ones who have spotlights still on them, tinted out windows, and the only way to tell the difference on some of them is the license plate due to not being exempt.
We've got the "ghost" cars around here too. Plenty of them. See four or five a day at a minimum. I understand the "reasoning" behind them. Don't necessarily agree with it. IMO better to be well marked and act as a deterrent, than as an "aha gotcha". But this city is well known for it's love of revenue generating measures.
As I said my local PD is running ghost marked cars more and more. It's a security concern because criminals have been posing as cops for decades and I'd like opinions on how that is handled.
If you instantly take offense to that then that is on you. I was based out of Germany for 4 years so I'm well aware of what that image means.
It seems like an answered question, to me. There has been a lot of media attention over the years, and I think it's pretty well established that if you're being pulled over by a low-profile cruiser, you can take steps to protect yourself. Drive to a more public and better lit area to pull over, call dispatch/911 to verify the officer is legitimate, etc. You know low-profile cruisers are out there, you know they're becoming more popular across the country. I don't see how this can be anything other than proverbially kicking rocks around in resent for die Oberherren.
You know your options: get on with your life peacefully, thankful you live in a safe, clean, prosperous society, made so largely by the efforts of those you (resentfully) pay to make it that way; or become an activist and start a legitimate movement to use the political process to effect the change you think is needed. If your vision is accurate, you'll have lots of support.
Or, option 3... bitch on the internet.
I'm certain unmarked / low profile vehicles exist in Europe as well and I know I spot marked units in traffic pretty easy. There are some worrisome aspect of US law enforcement but this really isn't an example of one of them.
Belmont31R
07-17-14, 00:11
It seems like an answered question, to me. There has been a lot of media attention over the years, and I think it's pretty well established that if you're being pulled over by a low-profile cruiser, you can take steps to protect yourself. Drive to a more public and better lit area to pull over, call dispatch/911 to verify the officer is legitimate, etc. You know low-profile cruisers are out there, you know they're becoming more popular across the country. I don't see how this can be anything other than proverbially kicking rocks around in resent for die Oberherren.
You know your options: get on with your life peacefully, thankful you live in a safe, clean, prosperous society, made so largely by the efforts of those you (resentfully) pay to make it that way; or become an activist and start a legitimate movement to use the political process to effect the change you think is needed. If your vision is accurate, you'll have lots of support.
Or, option 3... bitch on the internet.
I see them as a safety hazard. We saw one attempt to stop an intersection because of a stalled vehicle and there were narrow misses as the officer was trying to stop traffic. They still have a public safety job to do besides trying to blend in. We could see the frustration with this officer but her vehicle was barely marked. We have at least 5 different vehicles being used here in various color schemes. Its a safety hazard not just for stops.
TriviaMonster
07-17-14, 00:25
Anyone seen an unmarked MRAP yet? Nothing to see here...
Moose-Knuckle
07-17-14, 01:34
In our department we have smooth units. Our traffic unit uses these exclusively as they are less noticeable and can blend in with traffic easier. These guys do nothing but traffic all day every day. We do have one smooth unit on at any time for regular patrol operations, per SOP these units are not allowed to pursue anyone that flees due to the fact that it can be fought in court that the car was not marked, i.e. POLICE, etc.
All detectives, SWAT take homes, and NARCs run smooth units.
ClearedHot
07-17-14, 03:21
I definitely think that the F10 BMW 5-series is a better police car than some crappy Dodge.
In our department we have smooth units. Our traffic unit uses these exclusively as they are less noticeable and can blend in with traffic easier. These guys do nothing but traffic all day every day. We do have one smooth unit on at any time for regular patrol operations, per SOP these units are not allowed to pursue anyone that flees due to the fact that it can be fought in court that the car was not marked, i.e. POLICE, etc.
All detectives, SWAT take homes, and NARCs run smooth units.
Pretty close to what we do as well. We also have a policy that if an unmarked vehicle initiates a pursuit, then a marked unit should take over as the lead car as soon as practical. Pursuits are also closely scrutinized, and pursuits for low level offenses are terminated very quickly.
Not everything is revenue and conspiracy.
So you've never driven behind a marked unit doing the speed limit where everybody in traffic is suddenly the perfect driver and never goes above the posted speed limit? You know the majority of drivers easily do 10+mph over the speed limit when there is no traffic, however they are gonna drive like perfect little angels when there is a marked cop car there. (I'm not claiming to be a saint as I speed too. I just don't drive like a jackass like most folks around here)
The unmarked units for my SO have more lights in them than our marked units. When they light you up there is no mistaking that they are a cop. No criminal could afford that many high quality lights for their jalopy. They put Disney's Electric Light Parade to shame.
We also have dedicated traffic enforcement units that are slick topped and have no markings on the back or cage in the car. The only way to tell they are a police car from behind is to look for the lock cylinder on the trunk. Regular Impalas don't have them, only the police package ones. These units still have the regular side graphics and push bar but from behind you can't tell unless you know what to look for.
So you've never driven behind a marked unit doing the speed limit where everybody in traffic is suddenly the perfect driver and never goes above the posted speed limit?
I used to LOVE driving a marked unit on our Loop 101 in Scottdale, AZ. That is the Autobahn of AZ. Every prick fukk in his overpriced Eurotrash sedan all the sudden became a Saint.
I used to LOVE driving a marked unit on our Loop 101 in Scottdale, AZ. That is the Autobahn of AZ. Every prick fukk in his overpriced Eurotrash sedan all the sudden became a Saint.
You...you...umm...were a police officer?
You...you...umm...were a police officer?
More likely one he had carjacked.
:sarcastic:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
More likely one he had carjacked.
:sarcastic:
It is possible that as a younger man he worked for a group that provides maintenance to police vehicles and got to drive them periodically I suppose.
You...you...umm...were a police officer?
Not exactly. I did that Steven Segal thing for a bit with MCSO. God bless those who can.... but I couldn't stand dealing with the scum of the earth on a regular basis.
Apricotshot
07-17-14, 09:25
Something that grinds my gears is when people refuse to pass cruisers going below the speed limit on the interstate.
Not exactly. I did that Steven Segal thing for a bit with MCSO. God bless those who can.... but I couldn't stand dealing with the scum of the earth on a regular basis.
Why of course, the ride-along was going to be my next guess. Glad I was the first to run into the snare. Wonderful.
Something that grinds my gears is when people refuse to pass cruisers going below the speed limit on the interstate.
Same here. Conversely, I had a Phx PD cop hit me with his Left Alley light for passing him in my POV on the Freeway once. I might have been going 5 over.
Eurodriver
07-17-14, 10:03
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/IMG_20131201_084349_594_zps8bb7f268.jpg
These guys were way ghosted at a bike meet I was at a few months ago. Front headlight didn't work, stickers, messed up paint, everything was ****ed on this thing. They didn't even have a county/city plate, but they had all sorts of equipment in it, even a cage. I can't remember if it was PD or SO, but must've been some sort of street crimes. The BGs ended up blasting pics and description of it all over twitter and for a while they couldn't even even roll down a busy street without someone retweeting that they saw it and where it's headed. Still not sure why they brought that to a big public event.
I remember seeing a dumpy ass mini van thing with a vehicle stopped on the freeway here in AZ. I remember thinking... DAMN... no way would I pull over for this Mexican van pretending to be a cop. The coppers were in plain clothes with raid shirts/vests.
There's also the city Gang Units. Shoot.. they're about like "Training Day"... plain clothes, unmarked... and just the badge on the neck chain.
QuietShootr
07-17-14, 10:19
Thanks for your input, officer.
It seems like an answered question, to me. There has been a lot of media attention over the years, and I think it's pretty well established that if you're being pulled over by a low-profile cruiser, you can take steps to protect yourself. Drive to a more public and better lit area to pull over, call dispatch/911 to verify the officer is legitimate, etc. You know low-profile cruisers are out there, you know they're becoming more popular across the country. I don't see how this can be anything other than proverbially kicking rocks around in resent for die Oberherren.
You know your options: get on with your life peacefully, thankful you live in a safe, clean, prosperous society, made so largely by the efforts of those you (resentfully) pay to make it that way; or become an activist and start a legitimate movement to use the political process to effect the change you think is needed. If your vision is accurate, you'll have lots of support.
Or, option 3... bitch on the internet.
So you've never driven behind a marked unit doing the speed limit where everybody in traffic is suddenly the perfect driver and never goes above the posted speed limit? You know the majority of drivers easily do 10+mph over the speed limit when there is no traffic, however they are gonna drive like perfect little angels when there is a marked cop car there. (I'm not claiming to be a saint as I speed too. I just don't drive like a jackass like most folks around here)
So, what you're saying is that when there is a visible deterrent in the form of a well distinguished cruiser among the crowd large groups of people tend to obey the law and drive like they were supposed to. Yet the "solution" to increasing safety is to increase officers driving around in unmarked units and issue tickets to a handful of people a day. I'd say there is some goofy logic going on there as my logic tells me that a better way to keep people from speeding or generally obeying traffic laws would be to increase the number of marked units driving around. I'm confused.
I think Belmont and I are in the same AO as I'm seeing these unmarked a more and more. I don't have a problem with detectives and other types driving around in unmarked vehicles and feel they have uses, but when it comes to traffic safety they need to go.
The town that I live in used an 80's something Chevette up until fairly recently. It was grayish-blue and unmarked except for the cherry sitting on the dash. There is a large road-course racetrack nearby by and many out-of-town fans leaving think they're last name is Andretti or Hayden. Pretty funny to see a McLaren or a pack of GSXRs pulled over by our PD 's "vette".
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Unmarkeds are MUCH less offensive to me than other straight revenue based scams. For example, Scottsdale AZ, when I used to work up in that neck of the woods, would put these fukking ticket camera vehicles on streets with ridiculously low speed limits, where there were no sidewalks or neighborhood turn offs.... and then just bang out the tickets.
It wasn't like there were children at play or any type of slow traffic intersections where safety was a concern. Straight revenue B.S.
WickedWillis
07-17-14, 11:04
If you are worried about Police disguising their vehicles, maybe you should stop breaking the law? I have never had a problem with Law Enforcement and I firmly respect and support 99% of them.
If you are worried about Police disguising their vehicles, maybe you should stop breaking the law? I have never had a problem with Law Enforcement and I firmly respect and support 99% of them.
This thread has nothing to do with "respecting and supporting" police. What is the purpose of driving unmarked vehicles for traffic enforcement?
I'm certain unmarked / low profile vehicles exist in Europe as well and I know I spot marked units in traffic pretty easy. There are some worrisome aspect of US law enforcement but this really isn't an example of one of them.
Correct, our police use both unmarked police cars, and there are also officers who work in plain clothes daily.
As WickedWillis said, why are unmarked police vehicles and plain clothes police officers an issue? Does not the knowledge that there are police hiding in plain view also work as a deterrent?
The purpose of police is among other things LAW ENFORCEMENT. This requires a multitude of different tactics and approaches.
If you are not breaking the law, what is the problem?
This thread has nothing to do with "respecting and supporting" police. What is the purpose of driving unmarked vehicles for traffic enforcement?
If people see a marked car and slow down, stop texting, etc, how are you going to make any money?
If the vehicle is unmarked, as far as I'm concerned I'm not cooperating with what joe-schmo commands me to do - I wouldn't believe the guy behind the wheel is an authentic LEO, but some pretending wannabe nutjob...
What is the purpose of driving unmarked vehicles for traffic enforcement?
Aggressive driver enforcement. Getting the assholes who drive Saintly until the cop pull off the road, and then they're back to risking everyone's ass with unsafe driving.
Aggressive driver enforcement. Getting the assholes who drive Saintly until the cop pull off the road, and then they're back to risking everyone's ass with unsafe driving.
So, a marked unit accomplishes the goal, but doesn't provide revenue. I'm not sure how you define "aggressive driver" but I can tell you that issuing a speeding ticket doesn't slow anyone down after the ink's dry and they pull back into traffic.
If the vehicle is unmarked, as far as I'm concerned I'm not cooperating with what joe-schmo commands me to do - I wouldn't believe the guy behind the wheel is an authentic LEO, but some pretending wannabe nutjob...
I really don't see what the purpose of playing pretend-a-cop and doing traffic stops would be. And wouldn't the officer be required to produce an ID establishing himself as an LEO?
I also don't see the point in being confrontational with police; just comply and assist, and everyone can carry on with their day. I am not going to feel that my rights are violated just because police stop me for whatever reason.
So, a marked unit accomplishes the goal, but doesn't provide revenue. I'm not sure how you define "aggressive driver" but I can tell you that issuing a speeding ticket doesn't slow anyone down after the ink's dry and they pull back into traffic.
So, what are you saying? That police should not stop traffic offenders, or that penalties should be more severe?
So, what are you saying? That police should not stop traffic offenders, or that penalties should be more severe?
Run marked units and people behave.
WickedWillis
07-17-14, 11:49
This thread has nothing to do with "respecting and supporting" police. What is the purpose of driving unmarked vehicles for traffic enforcement?
Because people instantly slow down as soon as they see Law enforcement vehicles, regardless of the fact they are speeding or not, and then drive on thier best behavior. Unmarked Police vehicles are perfect for traffic enforcement because they are harder to anticipate, and it leads to catching more people breaking the law and driving like idiots. I smile every single time I see one. I live in an area where people don't obey the speed limit, and really think that everyone knows which direction they are turning when they don't signal, and cut across multiple lanes to hit their exit. I have no issues with unmarked cars whatsoever, they get the job done.
So, what are you saying? That police should not stop traffic offenders, or that penalties should be more severe?
How bout we punish the people who crash all the time? Instead of nanny everyone to death. It's pretty obvious the current system is set up for revenue. Not for safety. BAC .08 at a roadblock: license suspended for six months, court, probation, etc. Crash into someone every six months because you simply can't drive. Pay the tickets and carry on.
Because people instantly slow down as soon as they see Law enforcement vehicles, regardless of the fact they are speeding or not, and then drive on thier best behavior. Unmarked Police vehicles are perfect for traffic enforcement because they are harder to anticipate, and it leads to catching more people breaking the law and driving like idiots. I smile every single time I see one. I live in an area where people don't obey the speed limit, and really think that everyone knows which direction they are turning when they don't signal, and cut across multiple lanes to hit their exit. I have no issues with unmarked cars whatsoever, they get the job done.
Your 2 statements contradict one another. If they got the job done as a deterrent, and people were worried about getting caught, then they wouldn't be driving in that manner in the first place.
Anyhow, have a good day gents.
Run marked units and people behave.
I doubt that the solution is that simple.
People always do stupid things, especially in traffic
In Norway we have traffic cameras that register your speed - if you go faster than the speed limit, a photo is taken of the license plate and front wind shield, and you will get a ticket. There are traffic signs that indicate that a camera is set up.
All this leads to is people slowing down so that they comply with the speed limit when passing the camera, and as soon as they have passed it they are back to going full retard.
People getting pissed at LEO because they get stopped for traffic violations is a bigger symptom of our society's issues, than all of this police state nonsense.
WickedWillis
07-17-14, 11:57
Your 2 statements contradict one another. If they got the job done as a deterrent, and people were worried about getting caught, then they wouldn't be driving in that manner in the first place.
Anyhow, have a good day gents.
And it's always unmarked cars who have these assholes pulled over every morning. Weird. I guess I just don't have a problem with authority, and I drive like a sane person.
It's pretty funny when a marked unit pulls over an unmarked. I saw this one time. (I do a lot of freeway driving)
It's pretty funny when a marked unit pulls over an unmarked. I saw this one time. (I do a lot of freeway driving)
There's a pretty epic video of one that's come out recently. You've probably seen it.
How bout we punish the people who crash all the time? Instead of nanny everyone to death. It's pretty obvious the current system is set up for revenue. Not for safety. BAC .08 at a roadblock: license suspended for six months, court, probation, etc. Crash into someone every six months because you simply can't drive. Pay the tickets and carry on.
What if, hypothetically, someone crashes into someone you care about and kills them, and it turns out that this guy was a known speeder and reckless driver but his behavior did not suffer any consequences because his driving hadn't caused an accident yet, so the police just ignored him - would that be okay with you?
Reckless driving is the number one cause of fatal traffic accidents in Norway, more specifically passing other vehicles in the opposite lane causing head on collisions. Number two is DUI.
There's a pretty epic video of one that's come out recently. You've probably seen it.
No. Haven't seen that one.
I wonder what the level of cooperation is with unmarked police cars?
By that I mean, if I were to see someone driving a beater car attempting to pull me over (even if they had a siren and a gumball on the dash) I'd assume they aren't legit and would keep going...
There is a serious problem with fake police doing just this very type of thing.
If, they're are legit, I'd rather face the issue of not stopping.
I wonder what the level of cooperation is with unmarked police cars?
I think it's case by case. Out here in Metro Phx, you can tell if you have a shred of sense that it's legit. Usually a late model L.E. type vehicle anyway.... but like I said, there was that POS minivan thing that I'd have been "hell no" to pulling over for.
What if, hypothetically, someone crashes into someone you care about and kills them, and it turns out that this guy was a known speeder and reckless driver but his behavior did not suffer any consequences because his driving hadn't caused an accident yet, so the police just ignored him - would that be okay with you?
Reckless driving is the number one cause of fatal traffic accidents in Norway, more specifically passing other vehicles in the opposite lane causing head on collisions. Number two is DUI.
What if, I never said ignore reckless/shitty drivers. :sarcastic:
Driving 11 km/hr above the posted speed limit doesn't indicate anything other than the person is driving 11 km/hr over the posted speed limit.
Something that grinds my gears is when people refuse to pass cruisers going below the speed limit on the interstate.
I had a State Trooper in a construction zone on the interstate flash me one time for this. The next day I went on by and he pulled me over to cause a safety issue with rubber-neckers just to tell me he couldn't write me a ticket because I wasn't doing 10 over.
Retarded.
What if, I never said ignore reckless/shitty drivers. :sarcastic:
Driving 11 km/hr above the posted speed limit doesn't indicate anything other than the person is driving 11 km/hr over the posted speed limit.
^ Exactly.
Because everyone going 5-10 over in a speed trap is a wreckless asshole driving an expensive car people resent and is hell bent on getting everyone killed :rolleyes:
I really don't see what the purpose of playing pretend-a-cop and doing traffic stops would be. And wouldn't the officer be required to produce an ID establishing himself as an LEO?
Take a few seconds and think your question through from the eye of a criminal. Think woman; secluded area and rape. Happens some, especially in college towns where lots of new residents/drivers surface every fall. This is made easier by allowing unmarked units to pull people over. Anyone with a black Charger, Crown Vic and internet access can pretend to be a cop. Not so easy of the cars issuing citations have unique paint schemes that are hard to come by. Still not impossible, but if it saves just one child... It's been about 30 years since the last ticket I've gotten; hell I haven't been pulled over in over a decade, but the cops don't show ID when they pull you over. Hell I probably wouldn't know what a PD issued ID looks like from every town I drive through so what's to say someone didn't print one off their printer at home.
So, what are you saying? That police should not stop traffic offenders, or that penalties should be more severe?
No what we are saying is that if you're job is to insure the safety of the population then increase the # of well marked cruisers circulating and deter people from breaking laws. Those that still break laws should get fined. Everyone agrees that when people see the cruisers and can ID them they drive like angels. So why stop doing the thing that actually decreases traffic violations? On the other hand, if your job is to generate revenue then by all means hide in the bushes and run the stealth cars and impact as few people as possible but you'll definitely make some $$.
Eurodriver
07-17-14, 12:24
Your 2 statements contradict one another. If they got the job done as a deterrent, and people were worried about getting caught, then they wouldn't be driving in that manner in the first place.
Anyhow, have a good day gents.
Damn, you beat me to it.
I love the mentality that if you disagree with the actions of LE you somehow don't respect them (as if that's a requirement anyhow)
I wonder if the Jews were told not to disrespect the SS when they brought up that the showers had no running water...
WickedWillis
07-17-14, 12:28
Because everyone going 5-10 over in a speed trap is a wreckless asshole driving an expensive car people resent and is hell bent on getting everyone killed :rolleyes:
So you are speeding. I usually drive a few over the speed limit, if I get pulled over, I know it's because I wasn't driving the speed limit. Pretty simple stuff really. I'm sure resents your car and just pisses themselves with envy, that's adorable.
WickedWillis
07-17-14, 12:30
Damn, you beat me to it.
I love the mentality that if you disagree with the actions of LE you somehow don't respect them (as if that's a requirement anyhow)
I wonder if the Jews were told not to disrespect the SS when they brought up that the showers had no running water...
Well then, comparing what the Jews went through to modern law enforcement's practices. You are so stinking cute.
Well then, comparing what the Jews went through to modern law enforcement's practices. You are so stinking cute.
Yeah. That's getting absurd.
And it's always unmarked cars who have these assholes pulled over every morning. Weird. I guess I just don't have a problem with authority, and I drive like a sane person.
Please define driving like a sane person. It sounds like the same type of arguments that are used against guns. No one needs an AR-15! No one needs to go that fast!
Don't limit what kind of guns we own! Limit how fast others are supposed to drive on freeways!
Montana was far safer and had a lot less accidents prior to implementing a speed limit. (http://www.motorists.org/press/montana-no-speed-limit-safety-paradox)
I couldn't say it better... A quote from Eric Peters.
If a driver never leaves the road, never hits anything or hurts anyone else then he ought to be left alone – even if he’s driving faster than you like. The fact may be he’s a much higher-skilled driver than you are – and a speed that is not comfortable for you is easy meat for him. Under our current system we assume a dumbed-down average and base enforcement on that very low standard. A better way would be to leave people alone until their driving actually causes a problem. Some – the Clovers out there – will say this is too dangerous, that it’s better to try to prevent the possibility of injury and damage by assuming what amounts to a very low (and pre-emptive) standard. But this just leades to more dumbing-down and more cynicism and more corruption of enforcement. Most people effectively self-police in other areas of their lives and most people also drive reasonably and within their limits and comfort zone. Those who don’t – and cause problems for others – could and should be dealt with harshly. And fairly – because they’d actually be guilty of having done something (other than violate some arbitrary, least-common-denominator-based edict).
As a side not, Utah and Texas have both raised speed limits to 85mph in certain areas.
I've been watching the Tour de France. One thing you never see on the roads are red lights and stop signs. It's a wonder they can get around without a device telling them when they can go. For the USA to be so "free" we sure love our authoritarian contraptions. Something else odd was the French Prez taking selfies with spectators along the route and hanging out the back seat of a Tour de France VW with the window down. Here the first lady can't go to the corner market without closing down the city.
My MOSTEST annoying traffic thing in the world is these assholes....
Every so often I'll get Joe Asshole blowing his horn at me for jumping the gun on a green light by about 1 second on the puny traffic signals where they don't belong and no cross traffic is in sight. How the fukk is this impacting brainless's life in any way shape or form???
It's not a safety issue. It's just a Hello! I have a brain and am PAYING attention, while you're too stupid to think beyond what the signal tells you.
I used to LOVE driving a marked unit on our Loop 101 in Scottdale, AZ. That is the Autobahn of AZ. Every prick fukk in his overpriced Eurotrash sedan all the sudden became a Saint.
You...you...umm...were a police officer?
More likely one he had carjacked.
:sarcastic:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Markm is doing this when he is playing GTA IV
On another note.........
I was assigned to an unmarked unit for several years.
-The difference between Joe scumbag and a real unmarked vehicle is about $5k worth of lights. I would be pretty sketchey if someone would try to pull me over with a cheap bubble light.
-There are department SOPs for use of unmarked vehicles.
-Traffic enforcement is totally different from Anti crime patrols. The tactic of making people slow down by making them think the police can be hiding anywhere is effective in traffic enforcement.
-I have been able to stop many in-progress crimes like thefts of and thefts from vehicles, hand to hand drug deals out in the open and assaults from being in an unmarked vehicle and being proactive.
-I have seen some of the larger cities use marked cars with what are called running lights patrol very visibly and are available for people to call on for help. These are lights that are on the light bar that are always on.
-Who in the inner cities actually calls police? You would be surprised how many people call 911 after a shooting and call for an ambulance and don't even mention a police response.
Eurodriver
07-17-14, 12:48
My MOSTEST annoying traffic thing in the world is these assholes....
Every so often I'll get Joe Asshole blowing his horn at me for jumping the gun on a green light by about 1 second on the puny traffic signals where they don't belong and no cross traffic is in sight. How the fukk is this impacting brainless's life in any way shape or form???
It's not a safety issue. It's just a Hello! I have a brain and am PAYING attention, while you're too stupid to think beyond what the signal tells you.
Reminds me of:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/minor_differences/motorists.jpg
http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/minor_differences/pedestrians.jpg
Every so often I'll get Joe Asshole blowing his horn at me for jumping the gun on a green light by about 1 second on the puny traffic signals where they don't belong and no cross traffic is in sight. How the fukk is this impacting brainless's life in any way shape or form???
It's not a safety issue. It's just a Hello! I have a brain and am PAYING attention, while you're too stupid to think beyond what the signal tells you.
Same thing I feel about "speed limits" on the open freeway. Speed limits are set for the lowest common denominator, old lady, or dipshit driver.
I drive two hours a day to work and home. A lot of times I've seen people try to be the police when they see somebody going faster than them. How many times have you seen somebody decide at the last minute to jerk it over in front of somebody else in the passing lane because they see the other person going faster? They should stop trying to be a bad ass and let the car pass to be on their way instead of provoking somebody to road rage. Does this happen on the Autobahn?
How about taking the driver's licenses away from the old farts that cause accidents? (Sorry, no revenue generated). Instead of slaps on the wrist and them getting another vehicle out of the insurance claim? Or the people that caused an accident with no insurance who are fined (modestly) and on their way to hit somebody else? Or the people texting and crash? (modest fines, if any)
Eurodriver
07-17-14, 12:54
-I have seen some of the larger cities use marked cars with what are called running lights patrol very visibly and are available for people to call on for help. These are lights that are on the light bar that are always on.
-Who in the inner cities actually calls police? You would be surprised how many people call 911 after a shooting and call for an ambulance and don't even mention a police response.
You bring up two interesting points:
The first, I lived in Hawaii where a solid majority of LEO vehicles are daily drivers. Yellow Ford Mustang GTs, Volkswagon GTIs, Toyota SUVs - all sorts of random shit. But they always had a blue light on top that was constantly illuminated. I was cool with this, because they have legitimate reasons for running POVs. They are trying to keep the # of vehicles down on a small island and they weren't trying to be shady jackasses hiding behind the bushes running radar. (Probably because no one in Hawaii drives over 30 mph anywhere, anyway)
The second - We talked about that in the NJ memorial thread. Police are the enemy, not the person actually shooting at you. Invite the police into your life and then they start snooping around and asking questions that will just cause problems. If I lived that kind of life, I would respond the same way. In reality, much of the urban communities are practically stateless anyway. Young black man gets shot outside his house? No big deal. Little white girl gets kidnapped? National outrage. Not condoning it or condemning it, but it is totally logical why they'd never want you guys around.
So, what you're saying is that when there is a visible deterrent in the form of a well distinguished cruiser among the crowd large groups of people tend to obey the law and drive like they were supposed to. Yet the "solution" to increasing safety is to increase officers driving around in unmarked units and issue tickets to a handful of people a day. I'd say there is some goofy logic going on there as my logic tells me that a better way to keep people from speeding or generally obeying traffic laws would be to increase the number of marked units driving around. I'm confused.
I think Belmont and I are in the same AO as I'm seeing these unmarked a more and more. I don't have a problem with detectives and other types driving around in unmarked vehicles and feel they have uses, but when it comes to traffic safety they need to go.
I didn't offer any solutions in my post. I was just simply pointing out obvious human behavior.
But here are a couple of solutions:
1. Put speed cameras on every mile of paved public roads. That should slow people down. And it would free up all those mean ol' cops to go "catch real criminals."
2. Use GPS to make cars capable of only doing the posted speed limit. Or just limit them to 65mph max.
The problem is everybody bitches saying "They need to do something about XYZ!" then when cops figure out a way to do something about XYZ everybody bitches about the manner in which it is done. Unmarked cars get results. A good portion of arrests come from traffic stops. If someone is DWLS they're gonna drive perfect when they see a marked patrol car but when they blow past an unmarked car doing 65 in a 45 get pulled over and go to jail then I'd count that as a positive result. At least they were taken off the street before they could have screwed up someone else's life that day.
But if you guys really have a problem with unmarked cop cars being used then you need to take it up with your city council.
How about taking the driver's licenses away from the old farts that cause accidents? (Sorry, no revenue generated). Instead of slaps on the wrist and them getting another vehicle out of the insurance claim? Or the people that caused an accident with no insurance who are fined (modestly) and on their way to hit somebody else? Or the people texting and crash? (modest fines, if any)
We just had an old lady back over and kill three people. A couple years before that she ran through a McDs lobby in Michigan. A whopping one year suspension. I believe the judge said that was the max he could give her. Clearly the system is flawed.
What if, I never said ignore reckless/shitty drivers. :sarcastic:
Driving 11 km/hr above the posted speed limit doesn't indicate anything other than the person is driving 11 km/hr over the posted speed limit.
Because everyone going 5-10 over in a speed trap is a wreckless asshole driving an expensive car people resent and is hell bent on getting everyone killed
There is a huge difference in survivability between going 60 and 70 km/h - energy increases significantly and stop length dramatically increases. If you are driving along in a 60 km/h zone, and a child runs into the road 45 meters ahead of you you will manage to stop and only touch the child, when going 60. If you are going 70, you will hit the child at 46 km/h. This is using ideal, dry conditions. It changes on wet roads. But, by all means, downplay the significance of increasing the speed by 10 km/h.
Time gained/saved is negligible, unless you drive VERY far.
Besides, I am not talking about people going a bit over the speed limit on a major highway, moving along with the rest of the traffic.
I am talking about people who constantly think that rules do not apply to them, and drive recklessly, increasing the risk of fellow drivers and passengers. I am talking about reckless passing of cars on two-lane roads, going 30-40 over the speed limit, changing lanes with no concern for other vehicles, driving recklessly regardless of conditions etc.
How many times have you seen somebody decide at the last minute to jerk it over in front of somebody else in the passing lane because they see the other person going faster?
Yep... those are the same assholes who blow the horn at me for the early light jump. Shit.... they'd probably die of thirst waiting for the shit to change if it were broken... rather than think for themselves.
If the vehicle is unmarked, as far as I'm concerned I'm not cooperating with what joe-schmo commands me to do - I wouldn't believe the guy behind the wheel is an authentic LEO, but some pretending wannabe nutjob...
1) That mentality could very easily get you locked up or hurt. Much better than a traffic citation, right?... :nono:
2) Luckily for you, that's probably just internet tough-guy talk and we all know in real life you'd pull over and your voice go up a couple octaves when you start saying "Sir" at the beginning and end of everything.
3) Most departments have policies regarding stops with unmarked vehicles. They either call for a marked unit, or the officer must be in uniform. Most agencies are also understanding enough that if you pull to the right, slow down, put on your hazards, and call 911, they will not punish you for being cautious.
4) It depends upon where you live, and how the cars are painted, but when a marked unit is directly behind you, if it's a slick top, you will likely not be able to tell if it's painted up or not. So a mostly white Crown Vic lights you up, it could be unmarked, and it could have SHERIFF with all manner of colored decals on the side. If it's dark, the take down lights and pillar light may well keep you from seeing anything about the vehicle. Best advice is pull into a busy shopping center or gas station. When in doubt call 911, but this is not a new phenomena. The creepers pretending to be cops tend to do their thing on lonely, dark roads.
5) The LEO's who work plain clothes assignments, and drive the truly uncommon vehicles (not ghost marked Chargers, Crown Vics, etc.) rarely conduct traffic stops. They work narcotics, gangs, burglary, etc. If they start writing tickets, then they have to go to traffic court. Next thing they know the Sgt or Lt calls them in and asks if they want to go back to the road. As a detective they are getting paid to build investigations - not stop people from changing lanes w/o a signal. You'd need to really goober up something fierce (or be a serious hazard such as DUI) for them to issue a citation or conduct a stop. Sometimes they'll activate emergency lights to get you to calm down, stop driving like a lunatic, etc. They may just keep going because that works, or because of the aforementioned conversation with their brass.
6) The bottom line is that nobody likes traffic enforcement, but it's necessary. If using a ghost-marked car allows the citing of the crazy drivers who cause wrecks and keep going... then I'm all for it. The proper way to respond to a LE vehicle that is stopping you and you don't believe it's legit has long been discussed and briefed by the agencies themselves for longer than I've been driving. LE is a non-stop back and forth between law breakers and law enforcers. LE has to continually find new ways to detect, ID, and apprehend those who endanger everyone else. If ghost markings on a cruiser are that troublesome, I'd suggest meeting with your sheriff or chief to help provide other ideas that can be put into service. Be part of the solution - not the court jester running around whining loudly about how horrible things are. If you don't try to help, you don't get to complain IMO.
For the record - this is what I think of when y'all say "ghost marked" cars. Not the "Training Day" type cars some are throwing into the conversation.
http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/ghost-challenger_100306204_l.jpg
I couldn't say it better... A quote from Eric Peters.
As a side not, Utah and Texas have both raised speed limits to 85mph in certain areas.
Same thing I feel about "speed limits" on the open freeway. Speed limits are set for the lowest common denominator, old lady, or dipshit driver.
I would love to have a German style approach to driving laws and regulations and driver education and training in this country but unfortunately that will never happen.
I didn't offer any solutions in my post. I was just simply pointing out obvious human behavior.
But here are a couple of solutions:
1. Put speed cameras on every mile of paved public roads. That should slow people down. And it would free up all those mean ol' cops to go "catch real criminals."
2. Use GPS to make cars capable of only doing the posted speed limit. Or just limit them to 65mph max.
The problem is everybody bitches saying "They need to do something about XYZ!" then when cops figure out a way to do something about XYZ everybody bitches about the manner in which it is done. Unmarked cars get results. A good portion of arrests come from traffic stops. If someone is DWLS they're gonna drive perfect when they see a marked patrol car but when they blow past an unmarked car doing 65 in a 45 get pulled over and go to jail then I'd count that as a positive result. At least they were taken off the street before they could have screwed up someone else's life that day.
But if you guys really have a problem with unmarked cop cars being used then you need to take it up with your city council.
Who exactly is "everybody" bitching? The 65 and older crowd that enjoy the right to do 10 under while these reckless "kids" are doing 10 over and BY GOD they are going to do something about it? While most of them aren't retested or eyes examined...
Do you have any proof that these complaints are what raise our taxes and spur LE to buy more unmarked cruisers, set up speed traps and ticket people? Or is it just a sneaky way to generate more revenue so as not to have to raise taxes as much? Scratch that. Taxes are raised regardless. I think it pays for our endless road construction where I live.
We just had an old lady back over and kill three people. A couple years before that she ran through a McDs lobby in Michigan. A whopping one year suspension. I believe the judge said that was the max he could give her. Clearly the system is flawed.
Ding! Ding! Ding!
5) The LEO's who work plain clothes assignments, and drive the truly uncommon vehicles (not ghost marked Chargers, Crown Vics, etc.) rarely conduct traffic stops. They work narcotics, gangs, burglary, etc. If they start writing tickets, then they have to go to traffic court. Next thing they know the Sgt or Lt calls them in and asks if they want to go back to the road. As a detective they are getting paid to build investigations - not stop people from changing lanes w/o a signal.
This. I regularly commute home beside unmarked vehicles. I see the same ones quite often. I never see them stop speeders.
The last thing they want to hear on the way home is some prick telling them that their tax dollars pay his salary.
Eurodriver
07-17-14, 13:28
Did you see the car I posted above? I've seen FHP running red unmarked Tauruses with regular plates, not to mention the bajillion solid black chargers they have.
Your attempt to alter the conversation is most definitely not what we are talking about, and I would gladly dial 911 if an unmarked tried to pull me over. Crown vic with a $5,000 light bar? Okay, I'll stop. Green Honda Accord? **** that.
You wanna talk about voice going up octaves? I've seen what happens on Cops when you guys get into a pursuit - you start breathing like women going into labor. I wish I could get video of LEOs faces when I see guys on dirtbikes toying with an entire department of Crown Vics. Talk about hilarity. Do they quit because they realize they'll never catch the guy or because they have to stop in order to hook up their Cool Cops to the AC vents?
1) That mentality could very easily get you locked up or hurt. Much better than a traffic citation, right?... :nono:
2) Luckily for you, that's probably just internet tough-guy talk and we all know in real life you'd pull over and your voice go up a couple octaves when you start saying "Sir" at the beginning and end of everything.
For the record - this is what I think of when y'all say "ghost marked" cars. Not the "Training Day" type cars some are throwing into the conversation.
http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/ghost-challenger_100306204_l.jpg
I would love to have a German style approach to driving laws and regulations and driver education and training in this country but unfortunately that will never happen.
Me too. It's quite expensive, and time consuming, but their drivers are much more courteous, attentive and safe all while zipping along at 130mph on the autobahn.
Just to clarify I'm not talking about in town type driving... I mean out on the interstate, and I want to get somewhere, get the **** out of the fast lane.
Also, there's a huge difference in "reckless driving" and speeding. Genuinely driving like an asshole, go get 'em!, zipping along in light traffic and good conditions? Keep on rollin'.
I've been watching the Tour de France. One thing you never see on the roads are red lights and stop signs. It's a wonder they can get around without a device telling them when they can go. For the USA to be so "free" we sure love our authoritarian contraptions. Something else odd was the French Prez taking selfies with spectators along the route and hanging out the back seat of a Tour de France VW with the window down. Here the first lady can't go to the corner market without closing down the city.
Go on the Youtubes and look at videos from countries like Vietnam or Malaysia where they don't have any form of traffic controls and then tell me you really want to do away with traffic lights.
Hell, people here don't know how to act at a four way stop...
Eurodriver
07-17-14, 13:34
Go on the Youtubes and look at videos from countries like Vietnam or Malaysia where they don't have any form of traffic controls and then tell me you really want to do away with traffic lights.
Hell, people here don't know how to act at a four way stop...
I think hatt's point is that if we spent more time validating people's abilities to actually drive, we wouldn't need to spend so much time and money enforcing nanny state road regulations.
Your last sentence is what he's talking about. If people actually approached intersections cautiously and let the person before them proceed - technically there would be no need for that stop sign at all.
I really don't see what the purpose of playing pretend-a-cop and doing traffic stops would be. And wouldn't the officer be required to produce an ID establishing himself as an LEO?
I also don't see the point in being confrontational with police; just comply and assist, and everyone can carry on with their day. I am not going to feel that my rights are violated just because police stop me for whatever reason.
While it may not be an issue in your country it is not at all unusual to hear of a police impersonator pulling people over here. In fact in my state it can be such an issue that unfortunate things like this happen where a NJ State Trooper was involved in a serious altercation with local officers he suspected may be impersonators.
This should be quite a treat to someone from Norway: ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT_jIGVs1NQ
Why not generate more revenue from retests instead? Retest people beyond some agreed upon age. Retest people that have clearly caused wrecks. I see at least one rear end collision every day. Tell me that person behind wasn't distracted. I usually see two consecutive rear end collisions. The second happening after the first. Tell me that second wreck wasn't caused by rubber necking at the first wreck.
No worries. They pay their deductible and see a premium increase. What a deterrent :sarcastic:
This should be quite a treat to someone from Norway: ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT_jIGVs1NQ
Look at a search on Youtube and you'll find tons of examples caught on video: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=police+impersonator
Hit Google and you'll get about 1,380,000 results.
Apricotshot
07-17-14, 13:56
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/IMG_20131201_084349_594_zps8bb7f268.jpg
These guys were way ghosted at a bike meet I was at a few months ago. Front headlight didn't work, stickers, messed up paint, everything was ****ed on this thing. They didn't even have a county/city plate, but they had all sorts of equipment in it, even a cage. I can't remember if it was PD or SO, but must've been some sort of street crimes. The BGs ended up blasting pics and description of it all over twitter and for a while they couldn't even even roll down a busy street without someone retweeting that they saw it and where it's headed. Still not sure why they brought that to a big public event.
Is that over by Quaker bike night?
Just "Da man tryin to catch yalls ridin dirty homie".....
Im down wit tha struggle main...
Eurodriver
07-17-14, 13:59
Look at a search on Youtube and you'll find tons of examples caught on video: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=police+impersonator
Hit Google and you'll get about 1,380,000 results.
Holy balls. That's like pretending to work at McDonalds or something - Everyone thinks you're an idiot but you don't get to swipe any nuggets. Worst of both worlds.
Eurodriver
07-17-14, 14:01
Just "Da man tryin to catch yalls ridin dirty homie".....
Im down wit tha struggle main...
You're letting me down. It took you 5 pages to get in on this.
I'll start - "Cops need marked cruisers because they need to be seen in the event of an emergency."
I'll start - "Cops need marked cruisers because they need to be seen in the event of an emergency."
Rebuttal, most brass (LT's, Cpts, Chiefs) drive unmarked cars. They more than likely wont be within the first dozen that make it on scene at an emergency. And traffic cars are traffic cars, get over it....or drive within the law....I know, I know, all the kool kid organ donors need "da street cred yo's".
UC's are just that...under cover...duh...but then again most just drive regular hoopties to blend in. The unmarked units with lights/raidos/etc are usually traffic, brass, detectives....
Now back on topic POLICE STATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And traffic cars are traffic cars, get over it...
I'm not against the stated vehicles for the most part because the intent is that if you see an officer you'll behave until he's gone, whereas if you aren't sure there's one there then you behave in general just in case.
That said your response was pure Obama.
I'm not against the stated vehicles for the most part because the intent is that if you see an officer you'll behave until he's gone, whereas if you aren't sure there's one there then you behave in general just in case.
That said your response was pure Obama.
Cool. As for the Obama comment, I'm going to assume you got your daily rushy pillbaugh dose today????
Did you see the car I posted above? I've seen FHP running red unmarked Tauruses with regular plates, not to mention the bajillion solid black chargers they have.
Your attempt to alter the conversation is most definitely not what we are talking about, and I would gladly dial 911 if an unmarked tried to pull me over. Crown vic with a $5,000 light bar? Okay, I'll stop. Green Honda Accord? **** that.
You wanna talk about voice going up octaves? I've seen what happens on Cops when you guys get into a pursuit - you start breathing like women going into labor. I wish I could get video of LEOs faces when I see guys on dirtbikes toying with an entire department of Crown Vics. Talk about hilarity. Do they quit because they realize they'll never catch the guy or because they have to stop in order to hook up their Cool Cops to the AC vents?
Looks like I struck a nerve and I wasn't even talking about you. I was responding to internet commando Abraham. That said, I'm far from perfect, but if you can find radio chatter with my voice doing that I'll buy you a beer. lol! I was communicating on radios long before I got into LE. It's funny because when I was on active duty I always saw us as on the same side as LEO's. From the posts I've seen over the years, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to LE.
Yes, I saw the blue Explorer you posted. That appears to be some kind of special event where they had extra personnel for suppression of gang activity or something of that nature. On a day to day basis, I doubt that Explorer is out enforcing traffic. My picture of the Challenger was not an attempt to alter the conversation. The OP posted about "ghost marked" cars, and a photo of a black Charger that is an obvious LE vehicle. Nowhere did he mention Honda Accords. But even if an Accord with the Starsky and Hutch light gets behind you, the same rules apply. Slow down, call 911, etc. This is in no way a new issue with regard to unmarked traffic stops. Hell, MDPD put it out to the public years ago that they have a policy against unmarked cars doing that. As for FHP... who knows what policies they have. They have pulled over marked units running code down here... I've seen them in silver, burgundy, and black Mercury Marauders. But they were always in full uniform and had enough lights that 747's were confused about where to land.
Eurodriver
07-17-14, 14:26
Rebuttal, most brass (LT's, Cpts, Chiefs) drive unmarked cars. They more than likely wont be within the first dozen that make it on scene at an emergency. And traffic cars are traffic cars, get over it....or drive within the law....I know, I know, all the kool kid organ donors need "da street cred yo's".
UC's are just that...under cover...duh...but then again most just drive regular hoopties to blend in. The unmarked units with lights/raidos/etc are usually traffic, brass, detectives....
Now back on topic POLICE STATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hmm, I can't think of anymore arguments. I actually enjoy having LE around, no matter the car they are in. I know how to drive so I like the relative peace of mind knowing that at least for those few minutes everyone else will be driving sanely as well. (The exception being idiots who are afraid to pass LE on the interstate)
Devil's advocate is satisfied.
Eurodriver
07-17-14, 14:37
Looks like I struck a nerve and I wasn't even talking about you. I was responding to internet commando Abraham. That said, I'm far from perfect, but if you can find radio chatter with my voice doing that I'll buy you a beer. lol! I was communicating on radios long before I got into LE. It's funny because when I was on active duty I always saw us as on the same side as LEO's. From the posts I've seen over the years, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to LE.
Yes, I saw the blue Explorer you posted. That appears to be some kind of special event where they had extra personnel for suppression of gang activity or something of that nature. On a day to day basis, I doubt that Explorer is out enforcing traffic. My picture of the Challenger was not an attempt to alter the conversation. The OP posted about "ghost marked" cars, and a photo of a black Charger that is an obvious LE vehicle. Nowhere did he mention Honda Accords. But even if an Accord with the Starsky and Hutch light gets behind you, the same rules apply. Slow down, call 911, etc. This is in no way a new issue with regard to unmarked traffic stops. Hell, MDPD put it out to the public years ago that they have a policy against unmarked cars doing that. As for FHP... who knows what policies they have. They have pulled over marked units running code down here... I've seen them in silver, burgundy, and black Mercury Marauders. But they were always in full uniform and had enough lights that 747's were confused about where to land.
Nah man, no nerve was struck. Just trying to point out that everyone behaves differently as situations change. I know what you were getting at with the internet tough guy talk, but if an LEO isn't walking up to a traffic stop with a bit of anxiety then he's not taking it seriously enough.
I have no chip on my shoulder with LE, none whatsoever. I just like to present alternative sides of arguments especially on (what appears to be) a one sided forum such as this. Sometimes I wish some of you LEOs who think that about me would come visit me in person. You'd see me hanging out with LEOs and see them asking me to apply to their agency so we can work together. (I would, if I didn't spend so many damn years working toward a CPA) Almost all of my friends are LE, and if we conversed via PM or in person you'd probably see that my actual beliefs are almost a 100% reversal of what I post on here. After all, how boring would it be if we all sat around going "LE needs unmarked traffic cars. /thread" When I perused sportbike forums I would take the LE side and present it from their perspective. After all, how boring would it be if we all sat around going "FTP! I just kick it down a gear and run! /thread" ;)
Yeah, there's no way that Explorer was enforcing traffic, or ever has. It's too slow and rickety. It did surprise me though, as ghosted out as it was it wasn't really setup for deep UC. I mean, you've got a cage and a big ass laptop up front with lightly tinted front windows. who you foolin'?
Mercury Marauder! I'm glad I read that. I was actually pulled over in Tampa on the interstate at 3AM doing 95 in a 65 by a purple car over 2 years ago. There was not much ambient light and the reds/blues w/ spotlight made it impossible to see, so I actually didn't even know he was an unmarked car until after he drove passed me after the completion of the stop. He let me off with a warning (think he was looking for DUIs), told me to slow my ass down with drunks on the road, and thanked me for my service. For years I've been totally baffled as to what car he had this entire time. It was a burgundy Mercury Marauder for sure.
Eurodriver
07-17-14, 14:38
Is that over by Quaker bike night?
No, that was at Jim's Harley Davidson for a Toys for Tots run. I think it was November or December.
This thread has nothing to do with "respecting and supporting" police. What is the purpose of driving unmarked vehicles for traffic enforcement?
Revenue. Pure and simple.
Revenue. Pure and simple.
It's a significant deterrence. Using myself as example, I don't speed (enough to get a ticket) because I know I can't simply watch for market units. Not anymore. If I make a habit of it, I'm absolutely going to get nabbed, because there are unmarked Accords and Yukons and Mustangs and even Impalas and Chargers that are sometimes nearly impossible to spot.
Ever gotten an air unit assisted ticket? I bet you did NOT go right back to your original speed after that one.
Ever gotten an air unit assisted ticket? I bet you did NOT go right back to your original speed after that one.
That's a brilliant use of taxpayer resources :sarcastic:
That's a brilliant use of taxpayer resources :sarcastic:
Do you seriously not think that assignments of air assets are based on priority lists?
If the air asset saw a speeding vehicle and assisted officers in finding the correct vehicle, it would most likely be diverted if a more serious crime was taking place.
Helicopters cost money on the ground as well as in the air, so might as well use them.
Sometimes I wonder what kind of society some members here want....
Thanks for your input, officer.
I am not and have never been a police officer.
Do you seriously not think that assignments of air assets are based on priority lists?
If the air asset saw a speeding vehicle and assisted officers in finding the correct vehicle, it would most likely be diverted if a more serious crime was taking place.
Helicopters cost money on the ground as well as in the air, so might as well use them.
Sometimes I wonder what kind of society some members here want....
I don't care about a priority list to catch speeders. Just don't fly air support to catch speeders period.
They don't use fuel when they're not in the air so they're full to use in important cases and not delayed from chasing Joe Speeder to the outskirts of town.
The same goes for endangering the public by doing > 100 MPH to pursue a suspect.
And I wonder the same.
Edit:
Are you seriously trying to justify to me that air support for speeders is a judicious use of resources??
Have a nice day. Off to my ignore troll list.
Do you seriously not think that assignments of air assets are based on priority lists?
If the air asset saw a speeding vehicle and assisted officers in finding the correct vehicle, it would most likely be diverted if a more serious crime was taking place.
Helicopters cost money on the ground as well as in the air, so might as well use them.
Sometimes I wonder what kind of society some members here want....
Helicopters cost more money when they're burning gas and accumulating flight hours then they do sitting idle waiting for a call. I'm all for diligent enforcement but using helicopters specifically for speed traps is utterly absurd.
I don't care about a priority list to catch speeders. Just don't fly air support to catch speeders period.
They don't use fuel when they're not in the air so they're full to use in important cases and not delayed from chasing Joe Speeder to the outskirts of town.
The same goes for endangering the public by doing > 100 MPH to pursue a suspect.
And I wonder the same.
Edit:
Are you seriously trying to justify to me that air support for speeders is a judicious use of resources??
Have a nice day. Off to my ignore list.
Who ever said it was solely used for catching traffic offenders?
Helicopters cost more money when they're burning gas and accumulating flight hours then they do sitting idle waiting for a call. I'm all for diligent enforcement but using helicopters specifically for speed traps is utterly absurd.
Again, no one has said that it was solely used for catching speeders/traffic offenders. It could have been returning from a completed mission, or it could have been out on general patrol.
I am pretty sure that the police departments (and the like) that have helicopter support are capable of planning and using this resource as they best see fit.
Moose-Knuckle
07-17-14, 16:37
The first, I lived in Hawaii where a solid majority of LEO vehicles are daily drivers. Yellow Ford Mustang GTs, Volkswagon GTIs, Toyota SUVs - all sorts of random shit. But they always had a blue light on top that was constantly illuminated. I was cool with this, because they have legitimate reasons for running POVs. They are trying to keep the # of vehicles down on a small island and they weren't trying to be shady jackasses hiding behind the bushes running radar. (Probably because no one in Hawaii drives over 30 mph anywhere, anyway)
When I was on O'ahu I rented a Charger to ramble about it. In Honolulu I never went more than 30mph on the highway and that was the only time I never got frustrated sitting in traffic. Your on "island time", windows down, music playing, trade winds blowing . . . not a ****ing care in the world.
The second - We talked about that in the NJ memorial thread. Police are the enemy, not the person actually shooting at you. Invite the police into your life and then they start snooping around and asking questions that will just cause problems. If I lived that kind of life, I would respond the same way. In reality, much of the urban communities are practically stateless anyway. Young black man gets shot outside his house? No big deal. Little white girl gets kidnapped? National outrage. Not condoning it or condemning it, but it is totally logical why they'd never want you guys around.
Black on black murders will never make national headlines for several reasons, it doesn’t jive with the various agendas that are in play and typically the majority of these crimes transpire in communities that have very restrictive gun control laws in place; Chicago, New Jersey, etc. BUT if a black gang banger is shot dead by a white guy, or in the case of Trayvon Martin a half white guy, the President makes speeches, the Attorney General implements a witch hunt, and Jesse, Al, and the gang take to the air waves. The reason why inner city gang bangers do not call the police is because they have warrants out for their arrests and or they have items about their persons that could bring felony charges, i.e. firearms, narcotics, etc. They also don't call the "Po-Po's" because the police are their common enemy AND they don't want to break the code of "snitches get stitches" and loosing their street cred.
And as for kidnapped white girls making the national headlines the car-jacking, kidnapping, sexual torture, and murder of Channon Christian never made national headlines as there was a very obvious media blackout on that story and many more just like it.
Here is a book written by a journalist who goes into the racial violence of America and why the media ignores it.
http://www.amazon.com/White-Girl-Bleed-Lot-Violence/dp/1938067061/ref=dp_ob_title_bk
Who ever said it was solely used for catching traffic offenders?
Since you may not be aware living overseas in America they have and in some places still do (although it seems to have phased out around this area) use helicopters for speed enforcement duty. They are sent up, monitor how long it takes for a suspected driver to cross two points and radio to those on the ground to cite. Maybe they use updated methods today but that's how they did it years ago around here.
Nah man, no nerve was struck. Just trying to point out that everyone behaves differently as situations change. I know what you were getting at with the internet tough guy talk, but if an LEO isn't walking up to a traffic stop with a bit of anxiety then he's not taking it seriously enough.
I have no chip on my shoulder with LE, none whatsoever. I just like to present alternative sides of arguments especially on (what appears to be) a one sided forum such as this. Sometimes I wish some of you LEOs who think that about me would come visit me in person. You'd see me hanging out with LEOs and see them asking me to apply to their agency so we can work together. (I would, if I didn't spend so many damn years working toward a CPA) Almost all of my friends are LE, and if we conversed via PM or in person you'd probably see that my actual beliefs are almost a 100% reversal of what I post on here. After all, how boring would it be if we all sat around going "LE needs unmarked traffic cars. /thread" When I perused sportbike forums I would take the LE side and present it from their perspective. After all, how boring would it be if we all sat around going "FTP! I just kick it down a gear and run! /thread" ;)
Yeah, there's no way that Explorer was enforcing traffic, or ever has. It's too slow and rickety. It did surprise me though, as ghosted out as it was it wasn't really setup for deep UC. I mean, you've got a cage and a big ass laptop up front with lightly tinted front windows. who you foolin'?
Mercury Marauder! I'm glad I read that. I was actually pulled over in Tampa on the interstate at 3AM doing 95 in a 65 by a purple car over 2 years ago. There was not much ambient light and the reds/blues w/ spotlight made it impossible to see, so I actually didn't even know he was an unmarked car until after he drove passed me after the completion of the stop. He let me off with a warning (think he was looking for DUIs), told me to slow my ass down with drunks on the road, and thanked me for my service. For years I've been totally baffled as to what car he had this entire time. It was a burgundy Mercury Marauder for sure.
Sounds good. If you ever get sent to SOUTHCOM we can raise a glass.
SeriousStudent
07-17-14, 18:58
Everybody lower their temperature.
The same folks arguing with the same folks, per the usual.
The tactic of making people slow down by making them think the police can be hiding anywhere is effective in traffic enforcement.
Do you have anything concrete to base this off of other than personal observation? Making people paranoid that "the cops are everywhere!" doesn't sound like the best solution to me. Who wants to live like that? Also, it will detract from people's situational awareness while driving, because they're trying to play "spot the cop", rather than paying attention to the cars around them and their environment.
Far cheaper to stick an unmanned marked unit on the side of the road to deter speeders. I've actually seen a car profile cut out of wood, painted and displayed and it worked wonders slowing people down. For that matter you could mount a radar gun to a tree and tape the trigger so it'll slow down all the radar detector drivers, like myself, which would reduce overall traffic speed to "the limit".
Do you have anything concrete to base this off of other than personal observation? Making people paranoid that "the cops are everywhere!" doesn't sound like the best solution to me. Who wants to live like that? Also, it will detract from people's situational awareness while driving, because they're trying to play "spot the cop", rather than paying attention to the cars around them and their environment.
Far cheaper to stick an unmanned marked unit on the side of the road to deter speeders. I've actually seen a car profile cut out of wood, painted and displayed and it worked wonders slowing people down. For that matter you could mount a radar gun to a tree and tape the trigger so it'll slow down all the radar detector drivers, like myself, which would reduce overall traffic speed to "the limit".
Lol! Traveling I-95 in college the damn MD State Police would.park a car in the median. It had a mannequin in uniform complete with the smoky the bear hat! I always slowed down because I knew the one time I didn't there would be a real trooper in it.
Lol! Traveling I-95 in college the damn MD State Police would.park a car in the median. It had a mannequin in uniform complete with the smoky the bear hat! I always slowed down because I knew the one time I didn't there would be a real trooper in it.
Very funny recollection, gave me a good laugh. We had departments do the same around here in outdated vehicles and as you state even with that no matter how many times I'd go by I too always thought the next time it would be a real person in there.
Lol! Traveling I-95 in college the damn MD State Police would.park a car in the median. It had a mannequin in uniform complete with the smoky the bear hat! I always slowed down because I knew the one time I didn't there would be a real trooper in it.
Very funny recollection, gave me a good laugh. We had departments do the same around here in outdated vehicles and as you state even with that no matter how many times I'd go by I too always thought the next time it would be a real person in there.
Same story with me! They used 'em a lot in Pensacola when I was stationed there. It works really well and it's really cheap.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/17/6ubeju9y.jpg
Our local PD has been running ghost markings more and more. Won't pull over for one of them myself. Not a regular problem for me but only regular fully marked squad cars should be pulling people over.
Here's an idea.
Don't break the law.
Period.
End of story.
We had a State Police car parked in the median on I78 several years ago and the manikin fell over and someone called and reported a police car with a dead cop in it on the highway.
That didn't go very well. The car was removed.
Irish,
I do not have any written information about this but I will say this. Traffic enforcement deters crashes. We have local jurisdictions that handle 25 crashes a day. They are the departments that have traffic units. When they aren't writing tickets, they are investigating accident scenes and sometimes removing dead bodies from vehicles. I am not a traffic cop and don't write tickets. I am, however, big on deterrence and stopping something before it actually happens. I'm not trying to make people fear me or demand that they respect my authoriti I am simply being proactive not reactive.
When the 3-11 shift gets out at Mack Trucks, several of the employees going west bound blow the stop sign on Main Street. Instead of grabbing one and issuing a traffic ticket, I sit in my vehicle near the stop sign and miraculously, everyone stops. I don't consider that making my town a police state, I consider it stopping a crash before it occurs.
Here's an idea.
Don't break the law.
Period.
End of story.
IMPOSSIBLE. Anybody who thinks they don't break the law is either delusional or full of shit, take your pick.
Irish,
I do not have any written information about this but I will say this. Traffic enforcement deters crashes... I'm not trying to make people fear me or demand that they respect my authoriti I am simply being proactive not reactive.
When the 3-11 shift gets out at Mack Trucks, several of the employees going west bound blow the stop sign on Main Street. Instead of grabbing one and issuing a traffic ticket, I sit in my vehicle near the stop sign and miraculously, everyone stops. I don't consider that making my town a police state, I consider it stopping a crash before it occurs.
Thanks for the explanation bro. I don't put you in that camp and never will!
I know Irish. As I have said in the past, ethics play a huge part in how the public views police. I hope the masses here on this forum are intelligent enough to understand that a negative interaction with a cop can't reflect on all cops. There are some really good cops on this forum and some really good civies as well. A discussion is one thing and more knowledge added to the discussion keeps the tempers down.
IMPOSSIBLE. Anybody who thinks they don't break the law is either delusional or full of shit, take your pick.
Really?
Break the speed limit, SOL.
End of story.
Stop.
Period.
MountainRaven
07-17-14, 22:35
Something that grinds my gears is when people refuse to pass cruisers going below the speed limit on the interstate.
I actually enjoyed that once, when it happened to me. Two-lane highway. Everybody's going slow. I pass one car, then the next, until I get right behind a sheriff's car going about five under... and nothing ahead. So I pass him.
Nothing happened, except I had the entire highway to myself for about ten minutes. Which was nice.
VA air patrol...
http://www.nbc12.com/story/20076533/virginia-aircraft-speed-enforcement-scaled-back
We had a State Police car parked in the median on I78 several years ago and the manikin fell over and someone called and reported a police car with a dead cop in it on the highway.
That didn't go very well. The car was removed.
Irish,
I do not have any written information about this but I will say this. Traffic enforcement deters crashes. We have local jurisdictions that handle 25 crashes a day. They are the departments that have traffic units. When they aren't writing tickets, they are investigating accident scenes and sometimes removing dead bodies from vehicles. I am not a traffic cop and don't write tickets. I am, however, big on deterrence and stopping something before it actually happens. I'm not trying to make people fear me or demand that they respect my authoriti I am simply being proactive not reactive.
When the 3-11 shift gets out at Mack Trucks, several of the employees going west bound blow the stop sign on Main Street. Instead of grabbing one and issuing a traffic ticket, I sit in my vehicle near the stop sign and miraculously, everyone stops. I don't consider that making my town a police state, I consider it stopping a crash before it occurs.
That is hilarious!
I see what you're saying about prevention and in that case it works for you and keeps your town safer. Wouldn't just a ticket or two every now and then spread the word to the employees and help curb it? Police can't be everywhere obviously. Those same drivers that would always blow through the stop sign without you being there could and probably do commit traffic violations elsewhere. Let's say they kill somebody. I'm not saying that's your fault at all. You have to follow your conscience but it's just a sad reality.
If they get one ticket and drive better even just to avoid their insurance premiums rising or eventually get enough tickets and lose their license is that any better?
Internet Commando reporting in with a question.
I don't think I'm alone in my concern regarding cars that don't look like official LEO vehicles.
In Texas, there are quite a number of people who've been terrorized or raped in some cases by criminals masquerading as cops driving half ass police looking vehicles.
This type of crime has happened so often in Texas that LEO's are recommending you not pull over (if the vehicle is not an obvious LEO unit) until you get to a public place, like gas station, grocery store, etc.
Quite right! Recently happened here in the central Texas 'outback' & the local LEOs made that same recommendation also to call 911 to confirm. Haven't caught him so he's still out there lurking.
I
This type of crime has happened so often in Texas that LEO's are recommending you not pull over (if the vehicle is not an obvious LEO unit) until you get to a public place, like gas station, grocery store, etc.
Sounds great until you actually try then the very real police officer gets incredibly irate at your lack of compliance, arrests you for resisting, and plants a dime bag on you to add a drug charge. Makes up an accusation of resisting arrest to justify the beating he gives in a fit of rage....
Good luck with that....
I sit in my vehicle near the stop sign and miraculously, everyone stops. I don't consider that making my town a police state, I consider it stopping a crash before it occurs.
That is doing it correctly.
However, I do not equate citing drivers failing to stop with unmarked cruisers trolling highways for drivers doing 10 over.
Please define driving like a sane person. It sounds like the same type of arguments that are used against guns. No one needs an AR-15! No one needs to go that fast!
Don't limit what kind of guns we own! Limit how fast others are supposed to drive on freeways!
^^ This. Exactly what I was thinking as I was reading posts. You can apply so many of the arguments used against us as gun owners like: "You don't NEED a car that's faster, better looking and better sounding than the average guy and you certainly don't NEED to be driving faster than the speed limit." Or how about, no one needs a high horsepower car to get to work!
As a member here and as a person who enjoys a great car, driving over the speed limit or passing people who have no particular place to go doesn't make me a loose cannon. However, if you speed you are basically putting yourself at risk of a ticket and if caught, shouldn't really be able to argue.
And back to point at hand, I do feel that there are much more important things for police officers to be spending their time doing than riding around in unmarked cars to nail me for going 11 miles over the speed limit, in light or no traffic, on the highway, in perfect weather with no side streets, intersections or pedestrians within 10 miles. Sorta' like arresting me for using my legally owned in NY AR while shooting at a range in Jersey; is it making anyone any safer? I'd have to argue strongly that the answer is "no".
BTW, I think most LEO's to be solid, decent guys. Are some rotten apples? Sure, and there are some rotten apples in every profession...
I've a number of LEO buddies.
When I was a young, unmarried guy, I had a room mate who was an LEO and I introduced him to a girl who became (and still is) his wife.
SilverBullet432
07-18-14, 10:00
Internet Commando reporting in with a question.
I don't think I'm alone in my concern regarding cars that don't look like official LEO vehicles.
In Texas, there are quite a number of people who've been terrorized or raped in some cases by criminals masquerading as cops driving half ass police looking vehicles.
This type of crime has happened so often in Texas that LEO's are recommending you not pull over (if the vehicle is not an obvious LEO unit) until you get to a public place, like gas station, grocery store, etc.
Happened here locally yesterday. Girl was walking down the road when a man approched her saying he was an "undercover" and to get in the car. Well she did... :suicide2: but thankfully realized he might be a phony, hopped out of the car and ran straight to the LEOS. They caught him an hour or so later..
VA air patrol...
http://www.nbc12.com/story/20076533/virginia-aircraft-speed-enforcement-scaled-back
There are more cost effective ways to perform the same function. An aircraft is useful for surveillance, when trying to locate a lost person or following a violent suspect, but for day to day traffic operations it is costly.
BTW, I think most LEO's to be solid, decent guys. Are some rotten apples? Sure, and there are some rotten apples in every profession...
I've a number of LEO buddies.
When I was a young, unmarried guy, I had a room mate who was an LEO and I introduced him to a girl who became (and still is) his wife.
"I'm not a racist. I can't be a racist. Some of my friends are black."
Averageman
07-18-14, 11:00
Last night I had one of these unmarked cars run up on my bumper in town and then turn on his lights. I got out of his way but had the chance to see him weave through traffic surprising people all down main Street. In the meantime we passed a marked car with the Officer calmly watching for speeders on the down slope of a Bridge, he didn't move, didn't flinch, just went about his business.
I see the service in having these cars, I imagine the potential for accidents is much greater in them though.
I was kind of curious if there was such a hurry, 50-60 on Main Street and blowin the lights, why didn't the other Officer in his marked car join in?
Sounds great until you actually try then the very real police officer gets incredibly irate at your lack of compliance, arrests you for resisting, and plants a dime bag on you to add a drug charge. Makes up an accusation of resisting arrest to justify the beating he gives in a fit of rage....
Good luck with that....
I think you've watched too many movies.
It seems the folks who are so against ghost/unmarked cars enforcing traffic keep offering the same advice - call 911 and verify. The same thing that most LE agencies suggest. We're talking in circles. If anyone still feels the 911 verification is not sufficient then run for local office or start a campaign to change policies.
Last night I had one of these unmarked cars run up on my bumper in town and then turn on his lights. I got out of his way but had the chance to see him weave through traffic surprising people all down main Street. In the meantime we passed a marked car with the Officer calmly watching for speeders on the down slope of a Bridge, he didn't move, didn't flinch, just went about his business.
I see the service in having these cars, I imagine the potential for accidents is much greater in them though.
I was kind of curious if there was such a hurry, 50-60 on Main Street and blowin the lights, why didn't the other Officer in his marked car join in?
A hundred different possibilities. Unmarked could've been responding to a fugitive case, or a buy/walk going sideways, or he was from an entirely different agency...
Averageman
07-18-14, 11:30
A hundred different possibilities. Unmarked could've been responding to a fugitive case, or a buy/walk going sideways, or he was from an entirely different agency...
Well as you can imagine, this only caused a bit more confusion. I pulled over for the unmarked car, the vehicle in front of me nearly went in to oncomming traffic (Okay we were right in front of the College so the chances of a bubble headed Co-Ed texting while driving are pretty high) as I came over the bridge I gave the marked car all of the road he needed as I expected he was going to assist and guess who's on my bumper now?
Like I said I agree they are needed, but I do see them as a bit more dangerous on the road and especially in city driving at 5-6 PM.
Well as you can imagine, this only caused a bit more confusion. I pulled over for the unmarked car, the vehicle in front of me nearly went in to oncomming traffic (Okay we were right in front of the College so the chances of a bubble headed Co-Ed texting while driving are pretty high) as I came over the bridge I gave the marked car all of the road he needed as I expected he was going to assist and guess who's on my bumper now?
Like I said I agree they are needed, but I do see them as a bit more dangerous on the road and especially in city driving at 5-6 PM.
Which is precisely why I have bought extra red/blue lights for my work car. The public hears a siren but they are looking for a marked car, ambulance, fire truck, etc. We need the unmarked vehicles to be as visible as possible once we are in response mode. Wig-wags are a huge help in daylight but not for a car right in front of me. Factor in that most of my lights are behind tint and in the daytime it's tough to see them. It's up to the LEO driving an unmarked to keep this all in mind.
Texas's DWI/DUI rate has been above the national average for years. Federal funding can be tied to a state reducing alcohol related driving violations. Thus some grant funds are available to develop local programs to reduce these high, undesirable rates. I suspect that these monies are paying part of the costs for unmarked cars, which may be more trendy now than before. This too will pass. Our sheriff's dept has a couple with tinted windows. Among other things, they are used to transport mentally ill persons to the insane asylum in Austin and to transport condemned prisoners to Huntsville for execution.
One purpose of traffic stops is to find a probable cause to search the vehicle for drugs. I can count on being pulled over for a burned out tag light, tail light, or some such stuff. My concern would be the cop pulling me over for a made up reason, but this has never happened to me.
Moose-Knuckle
07-18-14, 16:53
Texas's DWI/DUI rate has been above the national average for years.
And it has absolutely NOTHING to do with number of ****ing illegal aliens from Mexico. :jester:
Go on the Youtubes and look at videos from countries like Vietnam or Malaysia where they don't have any form of traffic controls and then tell me you really want to do away with traffic lights.
Hell, people here don't know how to act at a four way stop...Another person who can't address an issue and has to come up with what ifs and exaggerated arguments.
SeriousStudent
07-18-14, 17:19
Another person who can't address an issue and has to come up with what ifs and exaggerated arguments.
Let's slow down with the personal comments. You can do that voluntarily, or it can be done for you.
There is a huge difference in survivability between going 60 and 70 km/h - energy increases significantly and stop length dramatically increases. If you are driving along in a 60 km/h zone, and a child runs into the road 45 meters ahead of you you will manage to stop and only touch the child, when going 60. If you are going 70, you will hit the child at 46 km/h. This is using ideal, dry conditions. It changes on wet roads. But, by all means, downplay the significance of increasing the speed by 10 km/h.
Time gained/saved is negligible, unless you drive VERY far.
Besides, I am not talking about people going a bit over the speed limit on a major highway, moving along with the rest of the traffic.
I am talking about people who constantly think that rules do not apply to them, and drive recklessly, increasing the risk of fellow drivers and passengers. I am talking about reckless passing of cars on two-lane roads, going 30-40 over the speed limit, changing lanes with no concern for other vehicles, driving recklessly regardless of conditions etc.
More what if's. What if, I'm aware that people are of different skill levels. What if, some people can do 20 over, BAC .15, while getting a BJ and be a hell of a lot better than some other driver doing 10 under with two hands and two eyes on the road. Stop singing your statist hymns to me bro.
Let's slow down with the personal comments. You can do that voluntarily, or it can be done for you.
**** you You're ****ing retarded.
SilverBullet432
07-18-14, 17:28
weird that someone who has been on here for 7 years just busts out like that! sh*t happens i guess. :blink:
WickedWillis
07-18-14, 17:30
Hope it was worth it.
SeriousStudent
07-18-14, 17:31
We'll never find out, since he's never coming back.
Another person who can't address an issue and has to come up with what ifs and exaggerated arguments.
Let's slow down with the personal comments. You can do that voluntarily, or it can be done for you.
**** you You're ****ing retarded.
We'll never find out, since he's never coming back.
Wow...
Saved me some typing. Thanks SS, put your next round on my tab.
montanadave
07-18-14, 17:41
27348
It's moments like these which never cease to amuse me.
Moose-Knuckle
07-18-14, 17:58
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAKG-kbKeIo
**** you You're ****ing retarded.
Speaking of nukes.
http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/attachments/general-talk/1641d1362959918-north-korea-vows-nuke-u-s-1334496790782.jpg
Wow. The rest of you guys must have rubbed off on him :jester:
Wow. The rest of you guys must have rubbed off on him :jester:
Would you rather that they rubbed off on you? ;)
Would you rather that they rubbed off on you? ;)
Well played sir! Poorly worded if I get where you're going with that. Hell NO!
Well played sir! Poorly worded if I get where you're going with that. Hell NO!
I couldn't resist :)
ClearedHot
07-19-14, 07:03
I don't like speed traps, red light cameras and UC cars being used for traffic enforcement/revenue generation, but unfortunately it's a reality in many parts of the country.
However, if you're a switched on driver, you shouldn't be getting tickets. Checking your mirrors, maintaining SA and having a good radar detector go a long way.
I think the old grandpa in his 5000lb Caddy who can't see, hear or react very well is far more dangerous than the guy who is a good driver but speeds in his Z06.
having a good radar detector go a long way.
Save your $$$ on the radar detector.
I've only been exposed to radar detectors twice.
On both occasions the damn things were constantly false alarming. (I never saw any law enforcement) The constant barrage of noise drove me crazy. Maybe the ones today aren't so bad, but if they're like my two friends units, I'd heave the things out the window...
The weird thing is both guys seemed to pretty much stay within the speed limits, so I saw no need for them anyway.
Checking your mirrors, maintaining SA and having a good radar detector go a long way.
You got it. I highly recommend the Valentine V1 (http://www.valentine1.com). It's saved me a ton of money.
montanadave
07-19-14, 11:45
You got it. I highly recommend the Valentine V1 (http://www.valentine1.com). It's saved me a ton of money.
While I like the direction and threat count features of that unit, I am disappointed by the lack of range and targeting data. :lol:
While I like the direction and threat count features of that unit, I am disappointed by the lack of range and targeting data. :lol:
I run it like "radar" ;) Check out the new app for iPhones and Androids (http://www.valentine1.com/v1info/v1connection/ios/), connects via Bluetooth, and the new features it has.
ClearedHot
07-19-14, 12:18
I've only been exposed to radar detectors twice.
On both occasions the damn things were constantly false alarming. (I never saw any law enforcement) The constant barrage of noise drove me crazy. Maybe the ones today aren't so bad, but if they're like my two friends units, I'd heave the things out the window...
The weird thing is both guys seemed to pretty much stay within the speed limits, so I saw no need for them anyway.
With the higher end radar detectors like the V1, Escort Redline, etc you can program it to only alert you when it picks up specific radar frequencies such as 34.7, 33.8, and 35.5 GHz Ka band. I turn off X band and K band, which aren't used by LE. Taking a little bit of time to custom program the specific frequencies into your radar detector will cut down on 98% of the false alerts.
There's also laser/LIDAR countermeasures out there that you can get as well...
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