14.5 Perm attached FH and Barrel Questions

[RecklessRookie]

If I have a Perm attached FH on a 14.5, AR barrel, can I not remove the barrel?

If the Perm attached FH is on Can't I just cut the barrel down to 14" exact and rethread and then add another MD to bring it back to the legal limit?

If I cut the barrel down and put a fake Can on the fro t end, and weld it on, will I still be in compliance.

Do I need a tax stamp to have a fake Can on the front of the AR?

Is the FSB remoavable on the 14.5 BCM Socom, With perm attachment?

I am super mew to the world of AR's and all advice is welcomed.

But to give u a look at things. I just purchased a (Blem) BCM 14.5" Socom Upper for my 1st build. Nervous for it's arrival.




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[GH41]

What exactly are you trying to accomplish? A welded FH can be removed but is usually destroyed in the process.

[themighty9mm]

If I have a Perm attached FH on a 14.5, AR barrel, can I not remove the barrel?
You can still remove the barrel, just not the FSB.
If the Perm attached FH is on Can't I just cut the barrel down to 14" exact and rethread and then add another MD to bring it back to the legal limit?
It would be easier to just cut off the muzzle device
If I cut the barrel down and put a fake Can on the fro t end, and weld it on, will I still be in compliance.
That would be completely pointless, but yes as long as the welded on muzzle device brings the overall barrel length back to 16 inches, you could do that
Do I need a tax stamp to have a fake Can on the front of the AR?
No, a fake can is just wasted material though and provides no gain in anything other than weight
Is the FSB remoavable on the 14.5 BCM Socom, With perm attachment?
Not without, either cutting the FBS off or more reasonably cutting the muzzle device off
I am super mew to the world of AR's and all advice is welcomed.

But to give u a look at things. I just purchased a (Blem) BCM 14.5" Socom Upper for my 1st build. Nervous for it's arrival.



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By choosing that set up, you have limited your options as to what rail you can use. A steady hand and a dremal tool to the muzzle device can fix that though. Just cut where the weld in on the muzzle device then a cut on the opposite side

[tbaker]

***may be a little redundant - was typing this probably the same time as mighty9mm


If I have a Perm attached FH on a 14.5, AR barrel, can I not remove the barrel?

If the Perm attached FH is on Can't I just cut the barrel down to 14" exact and rethread and then add another MD to bring it back to the legal limit?

Is the FSB removable on the 14.5 BCM Socom, With perm attachment?

But to give u a look at things. I just purchased a (Blem) BCM 14.5" Socom Upper for my 1st build. Nervous for it's arrival.

-Yes .. you can remove the whole barrel assembly at the barrel nut - remove your gas tube first.
-Um .. you can do anything you want, but why? This idea sounds like a costly headache
-Yes the FSB is removable - the perm'ed FH is the hindrance of actually removing it from the barrel.
-So, you will have 2 14.5" upper groups?

Like GH41 asked ... whats the ultimate goal of all this?

[RecklessRookie]

As a newby, I was just concerned because everybody says how much of a headache and how costly and how limited you will be if u have a oerm FH on your Barrel. But if u can buy a barrel for cheap. Just get another barrel and FSB Or LP gas block. And hand guards.

I was scared because I brought a perm attached FH on a 14.5 BCM And thought I was screwed.

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[tbaker]

As a newby, I was just concerned because everybody says how much of a headache and how costly and how limited you will be if u have a oerm FH on your Barrel. But if u can buy a barrel for cheap. Just get another barrel and FSB Or LP gas block. And hand guards.

It's all a matter of $$, configuation/component selection, your purpose for the gun, and proper tools for the job or sending it to someone who actually knows what they are doing.

Before you go dump a ton of money into tearing up the upper, get your upper and some handguards (inexpensive m4 or MOE handguards temporarily) and go to the range. It's a BCM so you shouldn't be disappointed. Then re-assess your needs/wants after.

[themighty9mm]

As a newby, I was just concerned because everybody says how much of a headache and how costly and how limited you will be if u have a oerm FH on your Barrel. But if u can buy a barrel for cheap. Just get another barrel and FSB Or LP gas block. And hand guards.

I was scared because I brought a perm attached FH on a 14.5 BCM And thought I was screwed.

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The problem is the barrel is the expensive part. To the tune of around $250+ dollars. So again buying a complete upper and immediately swapping the barrel doesn't make any sense.

Tbakers advice is sound and at this point really is your best bet. As I'm assuming you bought the blem upper to save some coin. Replacing 2/3 of it immediately will turn a inexpensive project into something a good deal more

[RecklessRookie]

It's all a matter of $$, configuation/component selection, your purpose for the gun, and proper tools for the job or sending it to someone who actually knows what they are doing.

Before you go dump a ton of money into tearing up the upper, get your upper and some handguards (inexpensive m4 or MOE handguards temporarily) and go to the range. It's a BCM so you shouldn't be disappointed. Then re-assess your needs/wants after.

Smartest thing I have been told thus far. Thanks Bro.

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[E_Johnson]

reckless,

while we have you here, what sort of lower receiver configuration are you planning on putting this on?

[RecklessRookie]

I've got a Double Star Zombie Slayer lower a year back and never did anything with it, except get a Magpul MOE + grip and a few Misc parts. I want to get a spikes complete lower to slap on with the BCM upper. Heard it's a good qual part.

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[tbaker]

For a better overall value (cost with respect to quality), you could pick this up: http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LWR-BCM-BLEM -- just chose the stock you want. You'll end up with a full BCM rifle and you should be quite pleased.

[Airhasz]

Being new to ar15 platform you would be better served if you purchased a 16" upper so you can remove the flash hider anytime you want to change muzzle devices, hand guards, front sight base, add low profile gas bloc etc. You will thank me later.

[3 AE]

For a better overall value (cost with respect to quality), you could pick this up: http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LWR-BCM-BLEM -- just chose the stock you want. You'll end up with a full BCM rifle and you should be quite pleased.

tbaker's suggestion is right on the money. Please tell us that you went ahead and got a BCM bolt carrier group and Gunfighter charging handle to complete your upper.

[GrahamKAC]

Being new to ar15 platform you would be better served if you purchased a 16" upper so you can remove the flash hider anytime you want to change muzzle devices, hand guards, front sight base, add low profile gas bloc etc. You will thank me later.

Agreed. Most of the fun that comes from being new to the AR platform is it's modularity. It's only a matter of time until you will want to change something, and constantly having to unpin a flash hider is going to get expensive and time consuming.

[Junkie]

Be aware that while it's possible to mill or grind and then remove the muzzle device, if *you* do so at home, without a pistol lower around, you are in constructive (or real, depending on assembly state) possession of an SBR which is a federal felony.

All rifles must have barrel length of 16" or longer, including any permanently attached muzzle devices.

If you have a pistol lower around (the other parts for an AR pistol would be a very good idea, I don't know if they're required), you may be able to do the work yourself. It's not particularly difficult, I just figure you'd rather not end up in PMITA prison.

[Iraqgunz]

Please keep that constructive intent nonsense out of this other rational discussion. Thanks.


Be aware that while it's possible to mill or grind and then remove the muzzle device, if *you* do so at home, without a pistol lower around, you are in constructive (or real, depending on assembly state) possession of an SBR which is a federal felony.

All rifles must have barrel length of 16" or longer, including any permanently attached muzzle devices.

If you have a pistol lower around (the other parts for an AR pistol would be a very good idea, I don't know if they're required), you may be able to do the work yourself. It's not particularly difficult, I just figure you'd rather not end up in PMITA prison.

[Junkie]

I know federally MG constructive is an issue, I've heard arguments both ways for constructive SBR/SBS. I wanted to prevent a potential felony.

Some states that allow NFA items have definitive constructive possession laws for SBR/SBS, so I wanted to mention it.

However, if you're asking me as a moderator I won't mention it again.

[RecklessRookie]

Thanks everyone for the answers and knowledge on NFA Rules and Reg's.
Speaking of which, that brings me to ask this.

So your saying, if I remove my lower and seperate them by transporting my lower to another house, and i'm working on my upper without an SBR Lower. I'm now commiting a felony because I don't have a SBR Lower in my possession? (Once I un pin and remove the FH)

I read a lot of different things on that and even on the NFA. Web site I'm kind of unclear. I thought as long as I had those 2 pieces seperated I was G2G.

Also here's another question, noob equstion, the 14.5 barrel that I have, I'm super interested in the Low profile gas block but don't know if I should get a clam on GB or screw in. Anybody with knowledge of both parts.

I've got my 7inch magpul handguards coming in but i'm thinking of a free flow setup w/ 10inch rails to cover the GB.

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[Airhasz]

Negative for clamp on gas block.
Get a bcm low pro gas block.

[RecklessRookie]

I know federally MG constructive is an issue, I've heard arguments both ways for constructive SBR/SBS. I wanted to prevent a potential felony.

Some states that allow NFA items have definitive constructive possession laws for SBR/SBS, so I wanted to mention it.

However, if you're asking me as a moderator I won't mention it again.

I live in GA. So i'm unsure if my state does or does not. I know either way u still need a TAX Stamp to legally poses a full SBR. IDK about parts themselves.

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[RecklessRookie]

Negative for clamp on gas block.
Get a bcm low pro gas block.

Got it thanks. Any reasons why?

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[tbaker]

Also here's another question, noob equstion, the 14.5 barrel that I have, I'm super interested in the Low profile gas block but don't know if I should get a clam on GB or screw in. Anybody with knowledge of both parts.

I've got my 7inch magpul handguards coming in but i'm thinking of a free flow setup w/ 10inch rails to cover the GB.
---
Any reasons why?


As AirHasz stated earlier, avoid the clamp on. The BCM has two set screws which "dig into" the metal of barrel (in which the barrel is dimpled for such purpose).

RR - you reference the 14.5 barrel .. do you only have a barrel or did you get that 14.5 upper receiver group?

If you have the upper group, you have the front sight base (FSB) pinned to the barrel (which means you have two taper pin holes drilled thru the barrel already). Your best bet, if you want to go free float rail is to shave the FSB down to a gas block, and it's already pinned - this also saves you having to unpin the flash hider/comp. Also, I don't know if it was ever asked, did you go carbine gas system or mid-length? (Mid-length gas system, you will need at least an 11" rail to cover up the gas block)

[RecklessRookie]

As AirHasz stated earlier, avoid the clamp on. The BCM has two set screws which "dig into" the metal of barrel (in which the barrel is dimpled for such purpose).

RR - you reference the 14.5 barrel .. do you only have a barrel or did you get that 14.5 upper receiver group?

If you have the upper group, you have the front sight base (FSB) pinned to the barrel (which means you have two taper pin holes drilled thru the barrel already). Your best bet, if you want to go free float rail is to shave the FSB down to a gas block, and it's already pinned - this also saves you having to unpin the flash hider/comp. Also, I don't know if it was ever asked, did you go carbine gas system or mid-length? (Mid-length gas system, you will need at least an 11" rail to cover up the gas block)

1. Ok thanks. Screws make sense. Less movement. Clamp-ons I guess walk around more.

2. I've got upper receiver group Mibus the BCG & Charging Handle.

3. I saw a video earlier today about shaving the FSB down. Looks like a great and cheaper, plus cost efficient choice.

4. Yes, I wound up taking the Carbune length Gas system w/ perm attached FH.
I was scared of the risk of buying an upper w/o the perm attachment. I wanted to buy the 14.5 W/O it and buy a different Comp that I've done many nany reviews on. (However, I never actually shot or used it) I've used other setups but the one in question.



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[Iraqgunz]

Not sure why you were scared? In any case hopefully whatever you are attempting works out.


1. Ok thanks. Screws make sense. Less movement. Clamp-ons I guess walk around more.

2. I've got upper receiver group Mibus the BCG & Charging Handle.

3. I saw a video earlier today about shaving the FSB down. Looks like a great and cheaper, plus cost efficient choice.

4. Yes, I wound up taking the Carbune length Gas system w/ perm attached FH.
I was scared of the risk of buying an upper w/o the perm attachment. I wanted to buy the 14.5 W/O it and buy a different Comp that I've done many nany reviews on. (However, I never actually shot or used it) I've used other setups but the one in question.



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[RecklessRookie]

Not sure why you were scared? In any case hopefully whatever you are attempting works out.

Scared of Violating the NFA Law or rules and reg's.


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[Eurodriver]

Scared of Violating the NFA Law or rules and reg's.


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Does the batfe come to your house frequently?

[Iraqgunz]

That's what happens when you spend too much time on the internet. The BATFE has bigger things to do than worry about some Lonesome Dove who is complying with the law. How they would even know is beyond me unless you call them or email them.


Scared of Violating the NFA Law or rules and reg's.


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[RecklessRookie]

Does the batfe come to your house frequently?

Of course not. (Stupid me). Homer Simpson voice, DOE!!!!!

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[RecklessRookie]

That's what happens when you spend too much time on the internet. The BATFE has bigger things to do than worry about some Lonesome Dove who is complying with the law. How they would even know is beyond me unless you call them or email them.

Very true Sir.
However, i figured they would know based on the fact that as soon as you buy any sort of SBR Barrel over the net, a red flag would appear especially if you use your credit card for an online purchase for an SBR.
But again, your absolutely correct. Too much time on the internet.

My theory was if you purchased a stripped lower in a store with an identifiable S/N and they do the paper work, as far as putting you in the system, then you are now in BATFE system as a holder of rifle equipment. Which at this point if you buy a Short Barrel over via the internet and just say they conduct an inquiry of some sort, maybe that would give them the P.C that they need to come knocking at your door because they see that the purchaser has not applied for a tax stamp. Again this was and is simply my theory as a lawful abiding citizen. Not as a professional that knows about this crap.




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[Airhasz]

Very true Sir.
However, i figured they would know based on the fact that as soon as you buy any sort of SBR Barrel over the net, a red flag would appear especially if you use your credit card for an online purchase for an SBR.
But again, your absolutely correct. Too much time on the internet.

My theory was if you purchased a stripped lower in a store with an identifiable S/N and they do the paper work, as far as putting you in the system, then you are now in BATFE system as a holder of rifle equipment. Which at this point if you buy a Short Barrel over via the internet and just say they conduct an inquiry of some sort, maybe that would give them the P.C that they need to come knocking at your door because they see that the purchaser has not applied for a tax stamp. Again this was and is simply my theory as a lawful abiding citizen. Not as a professional that knows about this crap.




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Just send them an email, wait for a reply....and then you will know for sure.

[RecklessRookie]

Lol. Negative. Still appreciate the help though.

Hey while I have you here. Whats a decent ammo to run for range practice thats non corrosive or less harmful to my barrel and parts. I will keep it clean after every range visit and on duty usage (if used on a A.S perp)

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[RecklessRookie]

Disregarde my last question, I did a search for that.

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[dramabeats]

Very true Sir.
However, i figured they would know based on the fact that as soon as you buy any sort of SBR Barrel over the net, a red flag would appear especially if you use your credit card for an online purchase for an SBR.
But again, your absolutely correct. Too much time on the internet.

My theory was if you purchased a stripped lower in a store with an identifiable S/N and they do the paper work, as far as putting you in the system, then you are now in BATFE system as a holder of rifle equipment. Which at this point if you buy a Short Barrel over via the internet and just say they conduct an inquiry of some sort, maybe that would give them the P.C that they need to come knocking at your door because they see that the purchaser has not applied for a tax stamp. Again this was and is simply my theory as a lawful abiding citizen. Not as a professional that knows about this crap.




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do you think they're that organized?

there is no system, there is no way for them to know besides the 4473.

[markm]

Very true Sir.
However, i figured they would know based on the fact that as soon as you buy any sort of SBR Barrel over the net, a red flag would appear especially if you use your credit card for an online purchase for an SBR.
But again, your absolutely correct. Too much time on the internet.

My theory was if you purchased a stripped lower in a store with an identifiable S/N and they do the paper work, as far as putting you in the system, then you are now in BATFE system as a holder of rifle equipment. Which at this point if you buy a Short Barrel over via the internet and just say they conduct an inquiry of some sort, maybe that would give them the P.C that they need to come knocking at your door because they see that the purchaser has not applied for a tax stamp. Again this was and is simply my theory as a lawful abiding citizen. Not as a professional that knows about this crap.


That's a little much... even under Hussein and Holder. Maybe if Hussein just takes a third term by executive order, we'll be that fuXored up... but now? That's over the top.

I had a short barreled upper socked away for like a year and a half before I registered some lowers... Granted... this was pre NSA/Hussein/Holder. But still. The ATF was conducting Don Quixote level operations.

[RecklessRookie]

That's a little much... even under Hussein and Holder. Maybe if Hussein just takes a third term by executive order, we'll be that fuXored up... but now? That's over the top.

I had a short barreled upper socked away for like a year and a half before I registered some lowers... Granted... this was pre NSA/Hussein/Holder. But still. The ATF was conducting Don Quixote level operations.

Lol.
Yea I may have been thinking it through a little excessive but, that's my fault. I try to stay on the right side of the fence.
Anyway, now I know for next time.



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[markm]

You pray that the government has something better to do. But these friggin days... who knows?

[223to45]

However, i figured they would know based on the fact that as soon as you buy any sort of SBR Barrel over the net, a red flag would appear especially if you use your credit card for an online purchase for an SBR.




How would they know just because you used a CC, do they receive a itemized receipt ?? Even your CC bill isn't itemized.

[RecklessRookie]

You pray that the government has something better to do. But these friggin days... who knows?

Right.

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[RecklessRookie]

How would they know just because you used a CC, do they receive a itemized receipt ?? Even your CC bill isn't itemized.

I figured since the gun store where you purchased the firearm from does some type of background and/or paperwork such as "transfer" forms, That would go to the ATF into what ever database they may or may not have. Now with that information, say u purchase a silencer or Short Barrel (anything under 16 inches) that there would be something in place to ping o. Any further/ future purchases towards products such as SB' and silencers and Automatic conversion kits.

But like I said b4 that was me over thinking something to the fullest. I should have known better.

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[RecklessRookie]

I figured since the gun store where you purchased the firearm from does some type of background and/or paperwork such as "transfer" forms, That would go to the ATF into what ever database they may or may not have. Now with that information, say u purchase a silencer or Short Barrel (anything under 16 inches) that there would be something in place to ping o. Any further/ future purchases towards products such as SB' and silencers and Automatic conversion kits.

But like I said b4 that was me over thinking something to the fullest. I should have known better.

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Also in reference to the C.C thing, I looked at it like if u purchased those things over the internet that there is a documented purchase from "you" the buyer I.e paper trail.

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[dramabeats]

I figured since the gun store where you purchased the firearm from does some type of background and/or paperwork such as "transfer" forms, That would go to the ATF into what ever database they may or may not have. Now with that information, say u purchase a silencer or Short Barrel (anything under 16 inches) that there would be something in place to ping o. Any further/ future purchases towards products such as SB' and silencers and Automatic conversion kits.

But like I said b4 that was me over thinking something to the fullest. I should have known better.

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The gun shop keeps it for 20 years, I don't think they have to send them to the BATFE after that.

IF the business closes then they must send off the forms.

[Iraqgunz]

Let's just leave this alone unless there is something of substance to add.

[RecklessRookie]

The gun shop keeps it for 20 years, I don't think they have to send them to the BATFE after that.

IF the business closes then they must send off the forms.

Indeed.

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[Wangstang]

OP...If you want to go with a 14.5" or 14.7" barrel and keep it off the NFA list but still be able to remove the gas block, your only retail option right now is to purchase a Voodoo Innovations Manimal flash hider. It's essentially an extended A2 hider that's been made with an outside diameter that's smaller than .750" so a gas block can pass over it, allowing full work to be done on the barrel without having to cut off a welded muzzel device. The catch here is that you have to go with a .750" gas block, not a .625" gas block and matched barrel.

Wes

[RecklessRookie]

OP...If you want to go with a 14.5" or 14.7" barrel and keep it off the NFA list but still be able to remove the gas block, your only retail option right now is to purchase a Voodoo Innovations Manimal flash hider. It's essentially an extended A2 hider that's been made with an outside diameter that's smaller than .750" so a gas block can pass over it, allowing full work to be done on the barrel without having to cut off a welded muzzel device. The catch here is that you have to go with a .750" gas block, not a .625" gas block and matched barrel.

Wes
What's the down side in the diameter difference?

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[MistWolf]

No downside or advantage to either, really, except .750 gasblocks seem to be more commonly available