View Full Version : Obama Nominates 1st NON-PILOT to Command Air Force in Pacific (BTW it's a Woman)
Why I am I not surprised Obama did this? At a time of increasing tension with China's territorial claims in the SE Asia and the up tempo of joint Russo-Chinese Pacific military exercises it makes so much sense... :confused:
To hell with actual qualifications in the name of Political Correctness and socialist/progressive agendas.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/17/air-force-command-nominee-is-1st-woman-non-pilot/
The White House has picked the first female general to head the Air Force in the Pacific, which will make her the first non-pilot to command air power in such a large theater of operation.
Gen. Robinson is not a career pilot. Her military profession is air battle manager. She has served aboard the Air Force’s surveillance aircraft, the E-3 AWACs and E-8 JSTARS, and she was nominated for a promotion amid a drive for more diversity in the Pentagon.
A retired pilot said there is a reason the Air Force historically has put a pilot in charge of large combatant command Air Forces.
“It is because you make operational decisions that require the understanding of what you are going to ask pilots to execute in combat where the wrong decisions mean the difference between life and death,” the retired pilot said. “Now her vice commander and director of operations will be rated fighter pilots, but still she makes the decisions.”
He is the most incompetent "leader" EVER. A plan for success could literally be written out by simply doing the exact opposite of everything this kenyan turd has done.
I would be surprised if I was surprised.
I spent 11yrs in the AF. I don't see it as that big of a deal. With her background she has a solid grasp on what is asked of aircrew during operations. Besides at a certain point leadership is more about the person than the technical skill set. We call them "General" officers for a reason.
Too bad she isn't a transgendered member of GLAD - He's really rack up the points with the unwashed masses of the Occupy Wall street crowd that loves him so much.
I have met General Robinson, however briefly, she deserves the positions she has held to date. She is a Weapons School graduate and former Weapons School instructor and took the first E-3s into Iraq as a squadron commander. "NON-PILOT" is rather sensational, as Air Battle Managers are still import aircrew who C2 the Air War from inside various platforms. While the ABM community is the brunt of a lot of jokes, it's not like they put a Force Support or Maintenance Squadron chick in charge. The "former pilot's" line: "you make operational decisions that require the understanding of what you are going to ask pilots to execute in combat" could be the ABM's job description.
She sounds like a fine officer, but I question that her experience(s) match the skillset of this position, and seriously have to wonder how many qualified men were passed by in order for a woman to have this slot. Don't get me wrong, if she's the best qualified and her packet was the best, good for her.
She sounds like a fine officer, but I question that her experience(s) match the skillset of this position, and seriously have to wonder how many qualified men were passed by in order for a woman to have this slot. Don't get me wrong, if she's the best qualified and her packet was the best, good for her.
How about we start with the assumption that she is qualified, instead of the automatic assumption that she isn't because of her gender. Did Colin Powell benefit from being African American? Very probably. Was he still outstanding? Very probably. The two are not mutually exclusive. How many unqualified men have been promoted by the old boy network who were not qualified, simply because they were one of the guys? I know of many... Interesting that no outrage follows. The assumption that the status quo is a meritocracy devoid of bias and that seeking to actively promote highly qualified minorities and woman undermines that meritocracy doesn't hold much water. Additionally, given the role of senior leadership, being a brilliant pilot doesn't mean you can handle the larger organization any more than being a brilliant beat cop qualified you to be the director of the FBI.
I am not advocating diversity for the sake of diversity, but diversity is important to ensure broad decision making. I work in a company of over 100,000 people that has really suffered from group think. You put a the same bunch of super smart, white, straight, techie men between 30 and 50 in a room, guess what you get group think. Sometimes that works, and sometimes it doesn't. Diverse opinions, diverse life experience, diverse educational backgrounds (as long as folks are qualified) is a source of strength, not a source of weakness.
Just the perspective of a straight, white, middle aged, middle of the road male that is as non diverse as they come.
She sounds like a fine officer, but I question that her experience(s) match the skillset of this position, and seriously have to wonder how many qualified men were passed by in order for a woman to have this slot. Don't get me wrong, if she's the best qualified and her packet was the best, good for her.
You summed up my sentiments for posting this in the first place. One would think that actual combat seat time would put one over the top in rankings. If she was the best, fine - no problem.
However, to use Barack as a good example, progressives have a habit of elevating some folks based on agenda rather than merit. We saw where that has us today - complete FUBAR. Thus, my wariness.
I am not advocating diversity for the sake of diversity, but diversity is important to ensure broad decision making. I work in a company of over 100,000 people that has really suffered from group think. You put a the same bunch of super smart, white, straight, techie men between 30 and 50 in a room, guess what you get group think. Sometimes that works, and sometimes it doesn't. Diverse opinions, diverse life experience, diverse educational backgrounds (as long as folks are qualified) is a source of strength, not a source of weakness.
The "Peter Principle" comes to mind. Spent many, many years in the Fortune 500 environment coupled with other management positions. Sadly, there are seemingly more Peters than Leaders.
The Peter Principle is a concept in management theory in which the selection of a candidate for a position is based on their performance in their current role rather than on their abilities relevant to the intended role
Could care less if you are white, black, woman, man, whatever. Are you the most qualified for the position coupled with ethics, reliability, etc? Great I'm going to hire you or be more than pleased to work under you. I want to be surrounded by great people who motivate and provide positive pressure to succeed.
How about we start with the assumption that she is qualified, instead of the automatic assumption that she isn't because of her gender.
However, when you have the type of person such as Obama making such decisions, I feel I more than justified in viewing his decision through the lens of his past actions. So yeah, based upon Obama's known whack socialist/progressive agenda - dang right I'm suspicious. The litany of train wrecks that have ensued from his management has now become legendary in the history of America. Furthermore, any move Obama makes has lost any chance for me to assume he's done it for our nation's best interest.
And I still stand by my earlier comments, if this person was the best pick, then great!
Moose-Knuckle
07-18-14, 16:23
Anything but another white heterosexual male . . .
ramairthree
07-18-14, 19:33
Old news kind of stuff.
The "Surgeon General" of the Army is a Nurse.
I suspect in less than ten years a female CA officer will command SOCOM.
Put fighter pilots and SF types under the direct command of those not their peers and they tend to bail.
Even within groups, many high quality types already tend to bail because over the course of 20 years the highest quality guy in a year group will be lucky if he is two years advanced vs. the totally mediocre/average guy in his year group.
For some reason,
backseaters, nurses/msc types, and non-SOF types in the past understood they would not be in charge of pilots, physicians, and SOF.
Now they are,
and think they should be.
Although even in regular non-military circles there seems to be at least as much of the mediocre management thinking the high talent producers need their management, and that the management should not come from the high talent group.
Social engineering helped by government or just a natural progression of the "you ain't no better'n me/I'm entitled" environment?
Moose-Knuckle
07-18-14, 21:47
Social engineering . . .
Nailed it.
Grand58742
07-18-14, 22:59
I'll just toss out her bio for anyone who wants to continue to express their outrage without at least knowing what she's done...
http://www.af.mil/AboutUs/Biographies/Display/tabid/225/Article/108119/lieutenant-general-lori-j-robinson.aspx
I mean, if it's ALL about Obama's social engineering of the military, how come she got selected for Colonel and Brigadier General while under Bush 43?
montanadave
07-18-14, 23:17
Woof, woof.
This discussion is ALL about the nominee being a woman and has ZERO to do with her not being a pilot. If the nominee was a man, it wouldn't even be news.
A couple of members have actually known the officer in question or bothered to examine her service record. The rest are just raggin' on women and social engineering and the various and sundry delusions of fevered minds.
MountainRaven
07-19-14, 00:34
Woof, woof.
This discussion is ALL about the nominee being a woman and has ZERO to do with her not being a pilot. If the nominee was a man, it wouldn't even be news.
A couple of members have actually known the officer in question or bothered to examine her service record. The rest are just raggin' on women and social engineering and the various and sundry delusions of fevered minds.
But-but-but... Obama! And liberals. And white devils. And stuff. And Obama can't do anything right. Like, at all. Not even when he does it right. EVER. If the clock says that it's 4:30 and Obama says that the clock says that it's 4:30, Obama has to be wrong, the clock can't possibly say 4:30....
:jester:
Belmont31R
07-19-14, 03:09
The White House doesn't choose those commands. You guys know there are selection boards and committees? The WH isn't picking these posts.
From my dealings with the AF not a single one had to do with being a pilot. You guys realize the AF is WAY more than planes? My first direct contact was way back in AIT in 2003 at Ft Gordon.
The head of the FAA at one time (might still be) a woman who wasn't a pilot. She was nicknamed "the penguin".
montanadave
07-19-14, 07:09
She was nicknamed "the penguin".
That's crazy. Why would they make a nun the head of the FAA?
I could not care less if a woman holds that post. But when you starting setting a new/different standard, i.e., the first non-pilot to hold the command, there is a reason for that. Is she just that damn good an officer? Does she have other, tangible skills? Or was it a promotion that she was going to get because she is a woman and they decided that it no longer mattered that the CinC or whatever was a pilot?
As for the WH choosing these commands...of course they don't 'choose', but they certainly have significant input in commands that require stars.
Lots of back and forth going on but in light of pretty close to 99.9% of the things done under the current administration being anything but good for the country, can you blame anyone who's paying attention for being skeptical?
ramairthree
07-19-14, 10:29
Woof, woof.
This discussion is ALL about the nominee being a woman and has ZERO to do with her not being a pilot. If the nominee was a man, it wouldn't even be news.
A couple of members have actually known the officer in question or bothered to examine her service record. The rest are just raggin' on women and social engineering and the various and sundry delusions of fevered minds.
Actually, pretty much my whole post was about the quals.
You get bitching and moaning when a MAN, PILOT is put in command of, say, SOCOM.
There are also a ton of AF Intel personnel and various others groups that did not make it to being a pilot that are thrilled there is one less slot for the man to keep them down.
But those of you that think there is no social engineering involved in senior GO selections except for delusions...
I suspect some of the issues/slots are too subtle for some to really get it. The most blatant example I can pic is:
Do you truly think a female nurse that had to be doctored up a trip to a combat zone for a patch had the background/CV to get selected for surgeon general- aside from them not even being a doctor-
than the doc that jumped into combat with Rangers, was the on ground command surgeon for Somalia, division surgeon for the 82nd, and commanded hospitals and medical regions?
Grand58742
07-19-14, 10:46
Actually, pretty much my whole post was about the quals.
You get bitching and moaning when a MAN, PILOT is put in command of, say, SOCOM.
There are also a ton of AF Intel personnel and various others groups that did not make it to being a pilot that are thrilled there is one less slot for the man to keep them down.
But those of you that think there is no social engineering involved in senior GO selections except for delusions...
I suspect some of the issues/slots are too subtle for some to really get it. The most blatant example I can pic is:
Do you truly think a female nurse that had to be doctored up a trip to a combat zone for a patch had the background/CV to get selected for surgeon general- aside from them not even being a doctor-
than the doc that jumped into combat with Rangers, was the on ground command surgeon for Somalia, division surgeon for the 82nd, and commanded hospitals and medical regions?
So can you say without a doubt this person is unqualified to hold that position?
Commanded a Wing tasked with control and dominance of airspace, commanded the Coalition Forces Air Component in an active combat theater. Vice Commander of the Major Command that is responsible for all fighter, tactical strike and close air support missions...obviously her qualifications are suspect.
This whole thing reeks of two items. First, the pilot mafia is going to scream and cry about it as I already noticed in the article. Second, the sexism is rampant.
I challenge anyone on here to give a valid reason why Lt Gen Robinson shouldn't be in that position. Other than "not a pilot" or "is a woman."
montanadave
07-19-14, 11:00
Do you truly think a female nurse that had to be doctored up a trip to a combat zone for a patch had the background/CV to get selected for surgeon general- aside from them not even being a doctor-
than the doc that jumped into combat with Rangers, was the on ground command surgeon for Somalia, division surgeon for the 82nd, and commanded hospitals and medical regions?
I haven't looked into the records/qualifications of the individuals considered for the post of Surgeon General, so I cannot speak to their respective strengths or weaknesses. However, I fail to see why combat experience makes an individual more suited for managing the Public Health Service.
That's crazy. Why would they make a nun the head of the FAA?
OMG! That is just plain funny! Now I got to wipe down my computer screen dripping with morning coffee. :lol:
ramairthree
07-19-14, 11:47
I haven't looked into the records/qualifications of the individuals considered for the post of Surgeon General, so I cannot speak to their respective strengths or weaknesses. However, I fail to see why combat experience makes an individual more suited for managing the Public Health Service.
Surgeon General of The Army
montanadave
07-19-14, 12:35
Surgeon General of The Army
Thanks for the correction. I misunderstood the reference in your previous post.
having a general in charge of veterans administration's worked out really well for the veterans because he had combat experience. Oh wait ...
There seems to be a lot of the old boy, pilot focused culture raising hell about a qualified person being elevated to a high-level. See this more and more in the Air Force as pilots are going to become less and less relevant overtime.
How about we start with the assumption that she is qualified, instead of the automatic assumption that she isn't because of her gender. Did Colin Powell benefit from being African American? Very probably. Was he still outstanding? Very probably. The two are not mutually exclusive. How many unqualified men have been promoted by the old boy network who were not qualified, simply because they were one of the guys? I know of many... Interesting that no outrage follows. The assumption that the status quo is a meritocracy devoid of bias and that seeking to actively promote highly qualified minorities and woman undermines that meritocracy doesn't hold much water. Additionally, given the role of senior leadership, being a brilliant pilot doesn't mean you can handle the larger organization any more than being a brilliant beat cop qualified you to be the director of the FBI.
I am not advocating diversity for the sake of diversity, but diversity is important to ensure broad decision making. I work in a company of over 100,000 people that has really suffered from group think. You put a the same bunch of super smart, white, straight, techie men between 30 and 50 in a room, guess what you get group think. Sometimes that works, and sometimes it doesn't. Diverse opinions, diverse life experience, diverse educational backgrounds (as long as folks are qualified) is a source of strength, not a source of weakness.
Just the perspective of a straight, white, middle aged, middle of the road male that is as non diverse as they come.
If she'd had previous seat time (given that every other officer selected for this position had) I wouldn't have questioned it....it would seem, that up until now, this was a pre-requisite for the job....
MountainRaven
07-19-14, 15:53
I, for one, do not believe that we should be pulling pilots out of cockpits and putting them in trailers with game controllers. However, knowing folks who are not pilots in the Air Force and folks who are pilots in the other branches: It seems that most pilots - fighter pilots, at least - have a god complex. And while it's pretty bad in, say, the Marines, it's down-right horrid in the Air Force.
So the idea that all of this rage coming out of the Air Force is just the pilots venting about a non-pilot getting a position... yeah, that tracks with me.
If she'd had previous seat time (given that every other officer selected for this position had) I wouldn't have questioned it....it would seem, that up until now, this was a pre-requisite for the job....
Why would you think that? That's like saying that given the fact that every PotUS in history has been at least half-white and male, that being at least 50% white and male are prerequisites to becoming PotUS.
Yeah...uh, no. She carried an umbrella and fought with Batman.
:mad: It's because she didn't have a pilot's license! :mad:
:p
It's actually arguable that an ABM is a better career field to develop leaders for a large command than fighter pilots.
There's only so much "been there done that" that you actually need as a fighter pilot. ABMs operate in the operational and strategic level of the air war their entire career while pilots are focused mostly on the tactical.
Also, the primary mission of the USAF is arguably strategic bombing first and air mobility second. Air superiority is probably third. It's ridiculous that fighter pilots run the USAF.
I'll just toss out her bio for anyone who wants to continue to express their outrage without at least knowing what she's done...
http://www.af.mil/AboutUs/Biographies/Display/tabid/225/Article/108119/lieutenant-general-lori-j-robinson.aspx
I mean, if it's ALL about Obama's social engineering of the military, how come she got selected for Colonel and Brigadier General while under Bush 43?
Perfumed Princess.
10 plus years outside the AWACS Community. She was a Senior Capt before showing up in OK. This was at a time the E-3 Community had one of the highest ops rates in the AF, yet she managed to get a lot of Instructor/Student/Command Briefer time.
I'll go with her being competent, Sqdn Cdr job would have proven that, but the lack of operational experience seems to be the norm for General Officers these days.
Could be worse. She could be Martha McSally.
Could be worse. She could be Martha McSally.
Please explain what you mean.
Martha McSally was an A-10 pilot who was politically promoted throughout her entire Air Force career. Bad pilot, bad commander, nobody that I know that worked with her or for her ever had anything positive to say about her either as a pilot or a leader. She was protected by a few influential people because she was the first woman to fly in combat after they lifted the ban in 1991. Now she's running for congress her in Arizona.
At least this appointment by our glorious leader does not appear to be the same weak tea.
ETA: I have interacted with her personally. My opinion is in line with most of the other opinions I have heard. This is not just 3rd party hearsay.
Martha McSally was an A-10 pilot who was politically promoted throughout her entire Air Force career. Bad pilot, bad commander, nobody that I know that worked with her or for her ever had anything positive to say about her either as a pilot or a leader. She was protected by a few influential people because she was the first woman to fly in combat after they lifted the ban in 1991. Now she's running for congress her in Arizona.
At least this appointment by our glorious leader does not appear to be the same weak tea.
ETA: I have interacted with her personally. My opinion is in line with most of the other opinions I have heard. This is not just 3rd party hearsay.
Interesting. That's pretty much the opposite of my experience. She was my direct supervisor while deployed for 6 months in 2001. She is an excellent leader and outstanding person. I'd work for her any day and we should al hope she gets elected. She uses common sense and takes care of her people. I never saw her take herself too seriously and she never claimed to be perfect. She worked twice as hard as anyone we were overseas with.
She joked about how she got her callsign, Wedge. She said she would be doing her thing as an A-10 driver, get noticed for good reasons and then she'd do something to "wedge" herself back at the bottom of the pile. Lol!
She had about 9 of us working for her and we loved her! Despite a blue-flamer F15C driver who came in to be the CAOC Director, she served as a shit screen to keep his nonsense off our backs. She kept her cool under stress during OSW and OEF operations. Granted nobody was shooting at us, but running C2 for CSAR has plenty of its own kind of stress and you learn quickly who you want in those roles and who you don't.
To a person every one I have heard bad mouth her has never been around her or even met her. I'd be curious to know exactly what your interaction with her was that you would make such a bold and disrespectful comment as you did.
Why would you think that? That's like saying that given the fact that every PotUS in history has been at least half-white and male, that being at least 50% white and male are prerequisites to becoming PotUS.
Not a great analogy IMO; demographic characteristics and career experience/training are apples and hammers.
Interesting. That's pretty much the opposite of my experience. She was my direct supervisor while deployed for 6 months in 2001. She is an excellent leader and outstanding person. I'd work for her any day and we should al hope she gets elected. She uses common sense and takes care of her people. I never saw her take herself too seriously and she never claimed to be perfect. She worked twice as hard as anyone we were overseas with.
She joked about how she got her callsign, Wedge. She said she would be doing her thing as an A-10 driver, get noticed for good reasons and then she'd do something to "wedge" herself back at the bottom of the pile. Lol!
She had about 9 of us working for her and we loved her! Despite a blue-flamer F15C driver who came in to be the CAOC Director, she served as a shit screen to keep his nonsense off our backs. She kept her cool under stress during OSW and OEF operations. Granted nobody was shooting at us, but running C2 for CSAR has plenty of its own kind of stress and you learn quickly who you want in those roles and who you don't.
To a person every one I have heard bad mouth her has never been around her or even met her. I'd be curious to know exactly what your interaction with her was that you would make such a bold and disrespectful comment as you did.
You're the first person I have ever heard speak of her with such high regard. I knew her when she was an A-10 driver at DM. In fact, I would disagree with every statement you made about her based upon my own observations, and those from people HIGHLY respected throughout the 354th, 355th FW, and 12th AF. This is not the forum to go into sordid details, but suffice it to say I would not want her on my wing.
Regardless, we have our own experiences with her. And with that I'll bow out of this lest we thread jack any more.
HackerF15E
07-22-14, 10:26
Plenty of McChing discussion fodder in this thread:
http://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/topic/18858-1st-female-air-force-combat-vet-in-run-for-congress/
Plenty of McChing discussion fodder in this thread:
http://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/topic/18858-1st-female-air-force-combat-vet-in-run-for-congress/
Felt bi-polar reading that thread - first laughing then almost in shock at some of the "experiences". Piece of work she appears to be to say the least.
Moose-Knuckle
07-22-14, 15:20
Plenty of McChing discussion fodder in this thread:
http://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/topic/18858-1st-female-air-force-combat-vet-in-run-for-congress/
Thanks for posting this.
I really hope Frank Antenori who is running against her wins, for anyone who doesn't know who he is read this:
Roughneck Nine-One (http://www.amazon.com/Roughneck-Nine-One-Extraordinary-Special-Forces/dp/0312544146/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1406060298&sr=8-1&keywords=rough+neck+91)
He is also a member over on Professionalsoldiers.com (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/)
Grand58742
07-22-14, 15:45
Plenty of McChing discussion fodder in this thread:
http://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/topic/18858-1st-female-air-force-combat-vet-in-run-for-congress/
Jesus, I've not seen that much high school drama and butthurt in a long time.
I'm not going to pick sides in that matter as I don't have a dog in the fight, but there is an inordinate amount of he said/she said going on concerning McSally. From both sides.
The two guys in the 104.1 interview linked in that thread are TomChuck Norris and Pappy Russel, both of whom very much dislike her, and while I don't necessarily agree with their approach, their version of facts is correct based on my (and a large majority of others) experience. When it comes to "he said/she said" their version is by far more accurate than hers. Remember, she's a politician, and she sure acts like it.
Now, let's get back to the original topic. McSally isn't worth the bits and bytes we've spent on her so far.
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