View Full Version : How many rounds before you deem a 1911 reliable?
I recently acquired a used 1911 of what would be considered a questionable make by most people here. It is my first foray back into the 1911 arena since I got serious about shooting. I tore the gun down and checked all the parts to make sure there were no glaring problems. And today I took it to the range for basic function testing. After 400 rounds of ball and about 50 rounds of defensive ammo it came away problem free. On a Glock or Smith I would call this good. However I am a bit more paranoid when it comes to the 1911 platform.
So what would you consider acceptable before you trusted the gun?
SpeedRacer
07-24-14, 11:46
Personally I recommend putting about 10K trouble free rounds through it. Of course at that point, you'll need to have a new barrel and wear parts fitted, and subsequently put another 10K rounds through it to make sure it's reliable with the replacement parts. Of course at that point...
I kid, I kid. Sounds to me like it runs, if you keep it clean and don't tinker I don't see why it wouldn't be G2G.
The Dumb Gun Collector
07-24-14, 11:48
That would be enough for me
I'd also agree. You're probably good to go. Enjoy.
Thanks guys. It is a Sig Scorpion Carry that I got it for a mid grade AR upper. Maybe I am being paranoid but then again can you be paranoid about the safety of your family and yourself?
I have been shooting 9mm so long that it took me a while to get used to the recoil of the .45. My hand is a little sore which is sad for me to admit.
Breacher 217
07-24-14, 12:45
1,000
Personally I recommend putting about 10K trouble free rounds through it. Of course at that point, you'll need to have a new barrel and wear parts fitted, and subsequently put another 10K rounds through it to make sure it's reliable with the replacement parts. Of course at that point...
I kid, I kid. Sounds to me like it runs, if you keep it clean and don't tinker I don't see why it wouldn't be G2G.
Funnily enough my instructor has a 2011 in .40 with something on the order of 20K rounds through it with minimal parts replaced.
The question of reliability of a particular gun has to be posed with the qualifying statement: "with what ammo?"
If you intend to use for SD/HD, make sure to run at least a couple hundred of your intended load through it.
Results with standard 230 gr ball may not predict what's going to happen with say, +P 200 gr gold dots.
As time and rounds downrange pass, keep an eye on the plunger tube and FP stop. Also don't be shy about getting rid of problem mags.
The question of reliability of a particular gun has to be posed with the qualifying statement: "with what ammo?"
If you intend to use for SD/HD, make sure to run at least a couple hundred of your intended load through it.
Results with standard 230 gr ball may not predict what's going to happen with say, +P 200 gr gold dots.
As time and rounds downrange pass, keep an eye on the plunger tube and FP stop. Also don't be shy about getting rid of problem mags.
Good advice. I only put about 50 rounds of defensive ammo downrange because I didn't have a lot on hand of .45. Since I haven't shot .45 in years I only had what was left over from around 2009.
And trust me I don't keep bad mags around at all. I also made sure to cycle though all my mags when shooting today. Although I need more to be sure. If anyone has some good 8 rounders laying around feel free to send them my way. :jester:
Well, according to some I've talked with you need to run 500-2000K rounds of whatever defensive ammo you are going to carry without cleaning or ANY malf before a 1911 is worthy to trust to more than range work. Of course these same claim any and all Glocks are good out of the box and don't even need parts to be replaced and claim to have shot Million rounds through their gen 2 17 in the past twenty years and never replaced anything, or cleaned it, or had any malfunction so I might not exactly trust their opinion. (No, I am not joking about the one million round claims, but that is another discussion for another time)
I'd probably agree with Greg and say you are probably good. Though running some more rounds through the gun can't hurt. My general rule of thumb is 500 rounds without firearm related issues, plus 50-100 rounds of chosen defensive ammo, doesn't matter what firearm I am using, Glock, 1911, H&K, I trust none until I've run it through my own pacing. A bad primer, or testing unknown quality mags won't turn me off, but if the gun will not function and put rounds accurately on target with one of my chosen defensive loads (I generally have three or four to choose from) it will.
Howdy,
You're good to go as long as you still to the same defensive ammo.
Back in the "Day" 1911s got a bad rap because so many people were using the cheapo 2nd rate GI stamped magazines.
I've seen numerous 1911s that the owners "claimed" were "Jam-O-Matics" that became 100% reliable just by using a quality magazine.
Paul
Howdy,
You're good to go as long as you still to the same defensive ammo.
Back in the "Day" 1911s got a bad rap because so many people were using the cheapo 2nd rate GI stamped magazines.
I've seen numerous 1911s that the owners "claimed" were "Jam-O-Matics" that became 100% reliable just by using a quality magazine.
Paul
Shitty mags, shoddy gunsmithing, and aftermarket parts that require fitting but were just "dropped" in are the top three factors I have seen with 1911, and even other firearms, in regards to them becoming total unreliable crap. Sometimes, if you don't want to pay for the work of someone who knows what they are doing, just leave well enough alone.
Shitty mags, shoddy gunsmithing, and aftermarket parts that require fitting but were just "dropped" in are the top three factors I have seen with 1911, and even other firearms, in regards to them becoming total unreliable crap. Sometimes, if you don't want to pay for the work of someone who knows what they are doing, just leave well enough alone.
Thankfully I live about 20 minutes from one of the best Gunsmiths in the country. So if I do have any work done on it then it will go right to him.
After 300 trouble free rounds of defensive ammunition you should be good to go.
500 mixed ball and PD/HD...
There's really no set amount to say it is "ready".
My personal take on my 1911 is that the magazines are definitely the weak point, so for me to decide it is ready for anything other than Sunday-funday shooting it would require a reliability check of the mags not the gun. For me, that would be a minimum of 10 revolutions with my decided carry ammo with no malfunctions. Then I'd say that magazine is ready.
That gets expensive quick, so my 1911 is a Sunday-funday gun..
Magic_Salad0892
07-25-14, 08:39
1,000 malfunction free rounds of the defensive ammo that I prefer. (Or a similar type which in this case is 230 gr. JHP)
If it's not your carry ammo, then it just proves that the gun functions. It doesn't prove that your ammo will actually function with the gun.
theJanitor
07-25-14, 11:16
When I deem stoppages to be repeatable. For instance, if the gun repeatably experiences stoppages at 500 rounds, which is repeatably alleviated by cleaning/spring replacement, etc., then I know that after service, it will be able to function with the 15 rounds I carry on my person.
What intervals do I hope for? 500 with an Officer's, 1000 with a commander or a government.
Edit: I can't remember the last time I had a stoppage. Probably because I service the pistol well before the point that I know it will start to hiccup
I've never found the 1911 to be a good enough design to be called "reliable". Even back when I'd think I'd finally got a good one... it'd eventually choke. Some of the cheap ones run fair, some of the Primos run poorly... It's just the nature of the 1911.
I like to shoot them, but the feeding geometry or whatever it is about that gun will never allow it to be old G17 level of reliable.
actually I just take it out of the box and don't worry about reliabilty of rounds feeding....... as the first round will always go bang ....that first round will rip a mans chest open causing body parts to rupture and fly out spinning him around 2-3 times before he goes down........if more than one perp his pals will be covered in his blood and guts causing them to go into shock and flee....... Even if I only hit his hand it will detach from his arm causing another blood spray as he spins only with a peripheral hit he may only spin once or twice before blood loss drops him....... When all is said and done "IF" the next round chambers in this unreliable design it's just a bonus!
If anyone thinks me serious please have your meds adjusted as needed.
MARkM and other reliability detractors...... just a thought..... if 1911's and 2011's were so unreliable why do competition/speed shooters use them ??? As well as many specilized LE and Mil units????? Hmmmmm.........
theJanitor
07-25-14, 15:10
MARkM and other reliability detractors...... just a thought..... if 1911's and 2011's were so unreliable why do competition/speed shooters use them ??? As well as many specilized LE and Mil units????? Hmmmmm.........
PLEASE, let's not go down this path again.....it makes me want to carry a slingshot. but then I'd have to worry about how many rocks i can sling before I have to replace the rubber, if ST6 uses said slingshot, or asking for ballistic test data for various rocks and pebbles
I've never found the 1911 to be a good enough design to be called "reliable". Even back when I'd think I'd finally got a good one... it'd eventually choke. Some of the cheap ones run fair, some of the Primos run poorly... It's just the nature of the 1911.
I like to shoot them, but the feeding geometry or whatever it is about that gun will never allow it to be old G17 level of reliable.
You ain't all that ****in' smart are you?
Hey guys. No shitting in my thread please. I welcome comments from Detractors and fans alike. I consider Markm's comment as valid as any others here. Does that mean I agree with it? Maybe, maybe not. But it doesn't matter. He gave his view on it based off his experience.
I tent to shoot 400-500 round fired with range ammo. Without any problems, I will shoot 200 rounds of the exact ammo I will carry in the pistol. If all goes well, I feel comfortable carrying that pistol.
Magic_Salad0892
07-26-14, 07:08
I've never found the 1911 to be a good enough design to be called "reliable". Even back when I'd think I'd finally got a good one... it'd eventually choke. Some of the cheap ones run fair, some of the Primos run poorly... It's just the nature of the 1911.
I like to shoot them, but the feeding geometry or whatever it is about that gun will never allow it to be old G17 level of reliable.
I strongly disagree. Glocks utilize uncontrolled feed. It will never have the reliability potential of a gun that does.
I recently acquired a used 1911 of what would be considered a questionable make by most people here. It is my first foray back into the 1911 arena since I got serious about shooting. I tore the gun down and checked all the parts to make sure there were no glaring problems. And today I took it to the range for basic function testing. After 400 rounds of ball and about 50 rounds of defensive ammo it came away problem free. On a Glock or Smith I would call this good. However I am a bit more paranoid when it comes to the 1911 platform.
So what would you consider acceptable before you trusted the gun?
Steering this back on track, I hope. . . .
fwiw/imho:
Any 1911 I have used/own/worked on:
- Check the usual things that might deem it suspect & not safe
- Clears above ^, strip it, clean it, grease/oil it. Toss the factory mags, Only use/trust Wilson Combat ETM & Tripp Research Cobra magazines.
- Take the ammunition I will use for that 1911s purpose & shoot the snot out of it with the usual range/training day routine.
- Without cleaning, ADD Grease/Oil: Shoot the crap out of it.
Round count: approx. 1K
- Strip it down, inspect parts, replace anything that looks suspect or want changed to preference, grease/oil it up, shoot the crap out of it.
* I treat/shoot a 1911 as any other handgun, why would there be a difference. Setup right, same-same. Most of these being tighter 1911 offerings. All Gov't size frames/slide.
Shooting buddy asked me at one time when the last time I cleaned my 1911 was . . . . Clean? Borsnake & Grease/Oil. I did wipe the outside of the mags off as well as the feed ramp from the ejection port.
I think that was approx. 3-4K before I stripped it down and cleaned it, could have gone longer but it was getting pretty dirty from BE & W231 loads. No real reason at the time for not stripping it down, just was shooting more frequently during a couple weeks I had off.
imho:
- You get what you pay for in regards to parts/fitment, which can relate to accuracy and long term durability
BUT, I feel an entry 1911 large production, to semi custom, to full house build = HAS to use quality magazines for proper function/reliability.
Ammo: Bullet profile plays a part as well. I mostly shoot RN bullets, and prefer HP ammo that have a smoother nose curvature & less TC/FP with sharp edges. . . . But, if it feeds & doesnt get hung up = GTG.
- I change springs frequently as well. 1x Recoil Spring vs. 1-2K of 45ACP ammo = small price to pay to minimize spring related issues.
But, to be honest: I carry a plastic gun with 9mm boolets, got spoiled with the weight/capacity. My 1911 are pretty much paper punchers now & nothing compares in ergo & shoot-ability for "me".
MadAngler1
07-27-14, 14:06
So what would you consider acceptable before you trusted the gun?
After 500 rounds, it should work. Some say 1000, but I think after 500 rounds, any 1911 should be broken in. I guess it depends on who manufactures it and how, but I am no 1911 gunsmith.
Of all the 1911s I've owned (a sample size of 5), the only one that was not 100% out of the box in conjunction with high quality Wilson or similar magazines was my Wilson X-tac. It would not completely go into battery on some occasions during the first 200 rounds of use, as I think the barrel/bushing and slide/frame fits were just a hair tight. This was despite a generous amount of lubrication. After 200 rounds, I never had an issue and have shot 1500 rounds through the gun thus far.
For me a pistol that starts out reliable from the get go has a lower threshold of proven rounds. 400 - 500 rounds of mixed ammo would seem enough. A pistol that starts out with issues and is then modified to a more reliable state would have a much higher threshold.
It's not difficult at all to inspect a 1911 and see if it should work.
I printed the PWS's complete MUESOC manual that has every dimension and inspection point in it. Read it, inspect the gun, fire for function. If it works as expected, rock on, it's good.
Shooting a bunch to 'trust' the gun is kinda flaky. I like to know my stuff is right before I ever shoot it.
With my new Kimber, I first ran 100 rounds of cheapo European ball through it. I had one round fail to enter the chamber (the first and last ever problema). Then I ran about 300 rounds of my handloads (5 grains Bullseye behind a hard-cast 230 grain round nose lead slug). Then about 50 rounds each of Hydra Shok in 165 and 230 grain, and the same of Golden Saber 185 and 230. No bobbles. Then it became my carry gun.
I've never found the 1911 to be a good enough design to be called "reliable". Even back when I'd think I'd finally got a good one... it'd eventually choke. Some of the cheap ones run fair, some of the Primos run poorly... It's just the nature of the 1911.
I like to shoot them, but the feeding geometry or whatever it is about that gun will never allow it to be old G17 level of reliable.
Mark, I had always presumed that you were older than me. You come off sounding like a gruff USMC veteran sometimes - I wouldn't expect that kind of response from you. I was shooting 1911s when Glocks started hitting the US market and though I was just a kid, the general consensus at the gun store/range that I worked at was that they were crap. I know a lot has changed... but you can't argue with 103 years of reliability and refinement.
Take a look at how much stuff everyone changes from the original design.
Manufacturers change literally everything and they're still reliable enough to be wildly popular.
If your ramp angle and mag catch location is pretty right, and you have a decent extractor and magazine, the gun will usually run fine, even if it doesn't run correctly.
Look at all the wierd stuff people do with springs on a 1911 and they still work! You see people run everything from 12-22 lb recoil springs, 15-28 lb main springs, with every different kind of magazine you can think of, and they still work pretty good.
I'm guilty of it too. I'm trying out Sprinco and ISMI 16lb recoil springs and I've stuffed 11lb springs in all my Colt mags in the search for greater longevity. Gun still runs 100% despite what I did, not because of what I did....
It seems they either work out of the box or they don't . I would guess the quality of the build has much to do with it though sometimes the more the pistol in modified the more is looses reliability.
NWcityguy2
08-06-14, 00:12
For me it has always been a few hundred rounds and I'm happy.
MARkM and other reliability detractors...... just a thought..... if 1911's and 2011's were so unreliable why do competition/speed shooters use them ??? As well as many specilized LE and Mil units????? Hmmmmm.........
Practical shooting competitors have adopted the 1911 design because it shoots faster thus giving them an advantage. Short trigger pull, short trigger reset.
It's not difficult at all to inspect a 1911 and see if it should work.
I printed the PWS's complete MUESOC manual that has every dimension and inspection point in it. Read it, inspect the gun, fire for function. If it works as expected, rock on, it's good.
Shooting a bunch to 'trust' the gun is kinda flaky. I like to know my stuff is right before I ever shoot it.
So you can read a book of specs and inspect the gun and just know it'll save your life if necessary?
Would you marry a girl after a glance at a photo and a look at her school, work and medical records?
I didn't say that inspect it, and then it goes straight into the holster.
What I do, is inspect it and check for any issues.
You see, I'm fairly mechanicaly inclined, and literate enough to follow written instructions, or even a recipe.
I don't waste ammo in hope of developing a trusting relationship with a pistol. I make sure that is should work, then verify.
There's a LOT of people on this forum with serious issues making anything work. I think it's the crowd here is thentype of peole who fix stuff that ain't broke until it doesn't work.
wilson1911
08-07-14, 22:55
I Like to tell people that running various types and weights of ammo without a full cleaning to 1000 rounds. Powder will play a big factor in how many rounds you can shoot thru it. To give an example bullseye and clays both run very well, but one is much dirtier than the other. Compare that to white box vs american eagle or tula ammo. A reliable gun shoots all ammo well, but how dirty it gets will directly affect how often you have to clean it. A couple of drops of oil goes a long way if you do not clean it after every range session. If shooting lead only, watch the ramp for build up.
Anyone who shoots less than 1k thru a gun does not gain proficiency in skill and knowing your gun very well. The longer you shoot a given platform, the better and more you will experience will attain. If your asking how many rounds are enough, then go shoot more. After 1k rounds and more you will not have any questions about reliability. You will know if it is or not.
A 1911 likes a drop of oil on the rails and a clean ramp. Other than that, run it like you stole it !!!
I didn't say that inspect it, and then it goes straight into the holster.
What I do, is inspect it and check for any issues.
You see, I'm fairly mechanicaly inclined, and literate enough to follow written instructions, or even a recipe.
I don't waste ammo in hope of developing a trusting relationship with a pistol. I make sure that is should work, then verify.
There's a LOT of people on this forum with serious issues making anything work. I think it's the crowd here is thentype of peole who fix stuff that ain't broke until it doesn't work.
Great post........
For anyone interested.
Read and understand everything in this book, make sure your 1911 meets all these specs and go from there with a LOT of ammo.
If you still think a 1911 is not inherently reliable, then by all means, bash.
http://www.specops.pl/vortal/download/files/MEU%20SOC%2045%20Pistol.pdf
For anyone interested.
Read and understand everything in this book, make sure your 1911 meets all these specs and go from there with a LOT of ammo.
If you still think a 1911 is not inherently reliable, then by all means, bash.
http://www.specops.pl/vortal/download/files/MEU%20SOC%2045%20Pistol.pdf
Thank you for posting that link. I greatly appreciate it!
NWcityguy2
08-18-14, 15:08
Read and understand everything in this book, make sure your 1911 meets all these specs and go from there with a LOT of ammo.
If you still think a 1911 is not inherently reliable, then by all means, bash.
Or just completely skip the book and test fire your gun, which is what you have to do anyway. I can honestly say that after shooting a 1911 for years there is nothing in the book that I needed to know that isn't explained in much greater detail on youtube.
I require 500 incident free rounds before moving to SD ammo testing and consider it good to go at 1000 (ball/SD ammo). Not sure why, probably read it somewhere... I had just hit the 500 mark, with a new TRP, when its extractor broke 1st round of a steel match. It was a dark day and I don't believe I have fully recovered. Of course my G17 that I purchased in 75 has never hiccuped, has never had any parts changed, and has a round count that makes the DHS ammo purchase look like a stocking stuffer:)
I require 500 incident free rounds before moving to SD ammo testing and consider it good to go at 1000 (ball/SD ammo). Not sure why, probably read it somewhere... I had just hit the 500 mark, with a new TRP, when its extractor broke 1st round of a steel match. It was a dark day and I don't believe I have fully recovered. Of course my G17 that I purchased in 75 has never hiccuped, has never had any parts changed, and has a round count that makes the DHS ammo purchase look like a stocking stuffer:)
What kinda mags are you using in the TRP?
I had a Springfield Custom 9mm extractor shit the bed two days before a big match. Paid around $40 to have Dawson overnight me an AFTEC. It showed up a week later...
Using Wilson Combat mags... The local distributor cornered the Springfield folks at the shot show (thinking 2010 ish?) and relayed my experience plus another customer's, who had a similar occurrence... They informed him that they were in the know as they had identified a "bad batch" of extractors that had slipped through the QA/QC crack...
Side Note-When I contacted Springfield on the issue, can't remember the dates, but they had a "pre-paid" box at the front door like; ****ing now and returned it with a fitted extractor crazy quick... They did the same thing when my ejector fell out (long story) and pinned it for me... Thought they had fantastic customer service.
I didn't say that inspect it, and then it goes straight into the holster.
What I do, is inspect it and check for any issues.
You see, I'm fairly mechanicaly inclined, and literate enough to follow written instructions, or even a recipe.
I don't waste ammo in hope of developing a trusting relationship with a pistol. I make sure that is should work, then verify.
There's a LOT of people on this forum with serious issues making anything work. I think it's the crowd here is thentype of peole who fix stuff that ain't broke until it doesn't work.
Nothing has done more harm to the reputation of the 1911 than new owner's with a Brownells catalog.
anachronism
08-28-14, 21:48
Honestly, my elderly Series 80 (gasp) has been perhaps my most reliable handgun, even when used with 8 round Colt and Wilson mags (double gasp). In fact, the gun is frigging boring at times. It's a pretty loose gun by modern standards, and still runs the original barrel, although I continually wrestle with the desire to fit a new one to it. My least reliable handgun was a Glock 30, which no longer resides here. I had an original high-line Sigma that badly beat that G30 in reliability. FWIW, the last G30 was my 11th Glock. I really tried to like Glocks, but it was to no avail.
If I had to run out in the street with a gun in my hand for any reason, it would be my old Series 80 Colt.
I have four 5" Colt 45s. My brother in law has my 5th.
They, and the Springfield Customs I owned have been the most used and most reliable handguns I've owned.
That's comparing to a bunch of the 'perfection' 2nd an 3rd gen 9mm Glock clunkers.
You ain't all that ****in' smart are you?
Maybe we can blame the 1911's dismal reliability on Froglube.
The problem with the 1911 is that no two are alike. They're like humans... 100% unique individuals. This whole thread reminds me of the Olympic Arms owners... "But but MINE WORKS GREAT!!!"
No shit sherlock... no two are alike...and statistically there are going to be some that function fine.
My DREAM is to have Toyota build a 1911.... to see if it is actually possible to make a consistently reliable weapon.
Here's the TELL TALE clue on the 1911.... every 5 years or so a company will come out with a MAG that is FINALLY going to make your boat anchor reliable.... after 100 years... we're still trying to figure out the right mag for the gun.
GET OVER THE ROMANCE, FOLKS!!
MARkM and other reliability detractors...... just a thought..... if 1911's and 2011's were so unreliable why do competition/speed shooters use them ??? As well as many specilized LE and Mil units????? Hmmmmm.........
You forgot LA SWAT too!! :sarcastic:
So should I do everything that match shooter do? I sure as hell wouldn't run my AR set up like these jokers. So why would I build a Race gun for real world pistol use?
Damn you do care a whole lot though dont you mark? Just rock on with the gun of your choice, your and my opinion do not matter at all to anyone else.
Ps Ive had to fix alot on my toyota 4runner. Nothing in this world is going to run 100% all the time.
I require 500 incident free rounds before moving to SD ammo testing and consider it good to go at 1000 (ball/SD ammo). Not sure why, probably read it somewhere... I had just hit the 500 mark, with a new TRP, when its extractor broke 1st round of a steel match. It was a dark day and I don't believe I have fully recovered. Of course my G17 that I purchased in 75 has never hiccuped, has never had any parts changed, and has a round count that makes the DHS ammo purchase look like a stocking stuffer:)
Ok, time for a little levity in this thread! Hey Slab, that G17 musta been a REAL, Ultra, Pre-Proto-Type, purchased in '75 ! :)
Skip
Ok, time for a little levity in this thread! Hey Slab, that G17 musta been a REAL, Ultra, Pre-Proto-Type, purchased in '75 ! :)
Skip
You know it brother-truly unbelievable:cool:
Maybe we can blame the 1911's dismal reliability on Froglube.
The problem with the 1911 is that no two are alike. They're like humans... 100% unique individuals. This whole thread reminds me of the Olympic Arms owners... "But but MINE WORKS GREAT!!!"
No shit sherlock... no two are alike...and statistically there are going to be some that function fine.
My DREAM is to have Toyota build a 1911.... to see if it is actually possible to make a consistently reliable weapon.
Here's the TELL TALE clue on the 1911.... every 5 years or so a company will come out with a MAG that is FINALLY going to make your boat anchor reliable.... after 100 years... we're still trying to figure out the right mag for the gun.
GET OVER THE ROMANCE, FOLKS!!
I think you can fit a few more straw men into this post.
Some people just can't have nice things. Some people just can't do what others can.
My 1911s run with nothing more than ammo, lube, and an occasional spring.
If you can't make that happen, then you're just going to have to suffer with something else.
Howdy,
I've been reading this thread and some of the post have made me laugh, gasp and say "WTF?!?".
I've shot well over a 1,000 different semi-auto pistols, a lot of them thanks to Uncle Sam, seen many more shot by other people and most hiccups/errors/jams/whatever you want to call them have been "operator error".
I have a bone stock Norinco 1911A1 .45acp that I fired over 15,000 rounds through it with only a couple of hiccups, as in 2, that were the result of a cheapo mag.
I got the Norinco from my BIL Chris ( ex now, we both divorced sisters ) who could NOT fire an entire mag without having a hiccup. I tried and tried to show him how to hold the pistol and stand properly without any luck. He traded it for a Glock 19 and I bought it that was in 1993 and I still have it today.
The Glock 19? I bought it from Chris because it was a Jam-O-Matic too. +20,000 rounds later it hasn't missed a lick.
Down through the years I've helped +100 people turn their Jam-O-Matic pistol into running as smooth as a Rolex just by changing the grip and correcting their stance.
Heck, I've even taken a Gen 4 Glock 19 that had a chronic BTF problem, usually 1 out of 4 rounds, and fired 50 rounds through it and had all the brass land in a plastic tub from WalMart and none of them come close to my face. I gave the G19 back to its owner and 3 out of the next 10 rounds hit him in the face. After that I fired another 15 rounds through the G19 without a BTF issue.
Just my $.02 and your mileage my vary.
Paul
P.S. Someone posted that they had to fire 1,000rds of defensive ammo through their pistol before they would trust it. WOW and OMG!
For starters, that's going to cost over a $1,000.00 and take a couple of years to round up that much of one type of ammo.
Magic_Salad0892
08-31-14, 02:40
My 1911s run with nothing more than ammo, lube, and an occasional spring.
Mine need magazines too, but I'm with you on this one.
Magic_Salad0892
08-31-14, 02:46
For starters, that's going to cost over a $1,000.00 and take a couple of years to round up that much of one type of ammo.
It takes you more then a few weeks to source 1k rounds of 230 gr. JHP? I never said 1k rounds of my specific carry ammo (which wouldn't take a couple of years to source), I just said any 230 gr. JHP. Specifically ammo with a similar bullet shape.
Also, I'm going to burn more than $1k rounds of ammo on training anyway, so I don't care about that at all.
Generally depends on how tight the gun is. Good rule of thumb is your good to go when you can put 200 rounds of ball down the tube in various shooting positions without a single hick-up.
I have a Rock Island Armory 1911 that required adjustment of the extractor when I first purchased it. As of today I have logged over 7,800 rounds through it without a malfunction since I adjusted the extractor.
How many rounds do I need to fire through it before a RIA 1911 is considered reliable?
beschatten
09-25-14, 19:23
I'll take all sorts of different brands of ammo, Blazer, Wolf, Federal, Am Eagle, Armscor, etc. This goes for SD ammo as well, Winchester PDX1, HST, Hydra-Shok, whatever shit I got layin around that I use.
I always load up mags to 8 rds when I function test. I'll shoot 2 handed, 1 handed, weak 1 handed, limp wrist it, do the LAV/10-8/Ken H. extractor test or whatever it's called, and try and get the gun to choke. I typically only use the magazines I have in carry rotation (I label em).
If I choke it, I try and replicate it and figure out why it malf'd. So far the only malfs I had with the 1911s I "deemed" reliable was cause of a piss poor grip (thumb dragging on slide, limp wristing like my grandma etc), which I intentionally did. I won't always clean em but I do oil em up and stay on top of recoil springs. Go figure.
Oh, I'll also go through about 500 rds in an hour. Then I go home with sore hands and clean it. Note: This is what I do after I buy it, get it back, w/e, etc.
Warning: Long-ish Rant Ahead...
When did 1911's become unreliable? I keep reading about all of these $2000 boat anchors that people are having issues with on different forums and I'm literally shocked. My shooting experience started at five years old. I started with a Daisy Red Ryder. I quickly progressed to a Marlin .22 and then graduated to full on Series 70 Gold Cup + 230gr hardball by the age of seven. My dad was a 1911 guy, and my grandfather carried one during his deployment in the Pacific theater. I worked at a gun range, cranking out range reloads starting at the age of nine (child labor: yes, ridiculous liability: probably). I would load rounds for hours on end and was paid in boxes of my loaded .45 ACP hard cast SWC. I would shoot at least 50, usually 100-150 rounds a day, five days a week until I was 15 - 90% out of my Gold Cup. If you do the math, that's a lot of shooting. In all of those years and years since I've encountered ONE malfunction with a 1911. ONE. It was a stovepipe and I remember the owner of the range explaining to me why they called it a stovepipe. He reminded me of the tap, rack, bang maneuver (which I had never had to use). I cleared it and was on my way. I ended up shooting IPSC starting at age 12 and acquired a stainless Series 80 Gold Cup racegun. It too was 100% perfect.
Through the years I (unfortunately) departed from the 1911 fold, foolishly thinking that modern technology always trumps old - until not so long ago - I had been craving a 1911 and found a new Sig RCS on sale for $700 (OK, $900 with a $200 PSA gift certificate). I've dumped about 600 rounds through it and it's performed as expected.
Anyway, my point is - 1911s were synonymous with reliability in my mind growing up. Working in a gun range, I had a chance to shoot many handguns, and none compared.
Skip ahead to 2014 and there about a million threads like this on the internet... Has manufacturing, QC, and attention to detail fallen so far by the wayside that a workhorse like the 1911 has gained a bad reputation? I am disturbed and saddened. I want another 1911 but now I'm afraid I'm going to end up with an inaccurate, unreliable, MIM/cast Saturday night special. Oh, the humanity.
I would tell anyone who's having issues with their 1911s to sell them and buy yourself an old Gold Cup or even just base model Colt. They always went bang and shot great. It's appalling that there are people out there plunking down $1000+ on unreliable pistols and that they now require a "breaking in period" - which is a term I had never even heard until I had the internet. John M. Browning is probably rolling around in his grave right now.
Most reliability issues with a handgun manufactured by a good company are induced by the owner. Usually it's cheap ammunition, cheap magazines or access to a Dremel and an aftermarket parts catalog that are the source of the problem.
beschatten
09-26-14, 11:27
Warning: Long-ish Rant Ahead...
When did 1911's become unreliable? I keep reading about all of these $2000 boat anchors that people are having issues with on different forums and I'm literally shocked. My shooting experience started at five years old. I started with a Daisy Red Ryder. I quickly progressed to a Marlin .22 and then graduated to full on Series 70 Gold Cup + 230gr hardball by the age of seven. My dad was a 1911 guy, and my grandfather carried one during his deployment in the Pacific theater. I worked at a gun range, cranking out range reloads starting at the age of nine (child labor: yes, ridiculous liability: probably). I would load rounds for hours on end and was paid in boxes of my loaded .45 ACP hard cast SWC. I would shoot at least 50, usually 100-150 rounds a day, five days a week until I was 15 - 90% out of my Gold Cup. If you do the math, that's a lot of shooting. In all of those years and years since I've encountered ONE malfunction with a 1911. ONE. It was a stovepipe and I remember the owner of the range explaining to me why they called it a stovepipe. He reminded me of the tap, rack, bang maneuver (which I had never had to use). I cleared it and was on my way. I ended up shooting IPSC starting at age 12 and acquired a stainless Series 80 Gold Cup racegun. It too was 100% perfect.
Through the years I (unfortunately) departed from the 1911 fold, foolishly thinking that modern technology always trumps old - until not so long ago - I had been craving a 1911 and found a new Sig RCS on sale for $700 (OK, $900 with a $200 PSA gift certificate). I've dumped about 600 rounds through it and it's performed as expected.
Anyway, my point is - 1911s were synonymous with reliability in my mind growing up. Working in a gun range, I had a chance to shoot many handguns, and none compared.
Skip ahead to 2014 and there about a million threads like this on the internet... Has manufacturing, QC, and attention to detail fallen so far by the wayside that a workhorse like the 1911 has gained a bad reputation? I am disturbed and saddened. I want another 1911 but now I'm afraid I'm going to end up with an inaccurate, unreliable, MIM/cast Saturday night special. Oh, the humanity.
I would tell anyone who's having issues with their 1911s to sell them and buy yourself an old Gold Cup or even just base model Colt. They always went bang and shot great. It's appalling that there are people out there plunking down $1000+ on unreliable pistols and that they now require a "breaking in period" - which is a term I had never even heard until I had the internet. John M. Browning is probably rolling around in his grave right now.
Good rant. I'm only 25 so I missed the glory years of the 1911. One lesson learned is, the internet is full of horsesh*t. I may not be a gunsmith but my profession is cyber security.
Shao, just buy a new 5" Colt.
Remember when Glocks were reliable and everyone said to leave 'em stock and use all Glock parts?
Colts are still like that....
Shao, just buy a new 5" Colt.
Remember when Glocks were reliable and everyone said to leave 'em stock and use all Glock parts?
Colts are still like that....
My Colt is like that. Newish .38 Super Auto, 100% with my reloads and infrequent factory loads. Even the AA .22 top end as been 100%. Hope I didn't jinx myself...
An Undocumented Worker
10-04-14, 19:02
If it starts out with no malfunctions and continues for 200 rounds of various ammo I'd call it good.
Magic_Salad0892
10-05-14, 02:21
Warning: Long-ish Rant Ahead...
When did 1911's become unreliable? I keep reading about all of these $2000 boat anchors that people are having issues with on different forums and I'm literally shocked. My shooting experience started at five years old. I started with a Daisy Red Ryder. I quickly progressed to a Marlin .22 and then graduated to full on Series 70 Gold Cup + 230gr hardball by the age of seven. My dad was a 1911 guy, and my grandfather carried one during his deployment in the Pacific theater. I worked at a gun range, cranking out range reloads starting at the age of nine (child labor: yes, ridiculous liability: probably). I would load rounds for hours on end and was paid in boxes of my loaded .45 ACP hard cast SWC. I would shoot at least 50, usually 100-150 rounds a day, five days a week until I was 15 - 90% out of my Gold Cup. If you do the math, that's a lot of shooting. In all of those years and years since I've encountered ONE malfunction with a 1911. ONE. It was a stovepipe and I remember the owner of the range explaining to me why they called it a stovepipe. He reminded me of the tap, rack, bang maneuver (which I had never had to use). I cleared it and was on my way. I ended up shooting IPSC starting at age 12 and acquired a stainless Series 80 Gold Cup racegun. It too was 100% perfect.
Through the years I (unfortunately) departed from the 1911 fold, foolishly thinking that modern technology always trumps old - until not so long ago - I had been craving a 1911 and found a new Sig RCS on sale for $700 (OK, $900 with a $200 PSA gift certificate). I've dumped about 600 rounds through it and it's performed as expected.
Anyway, my point is - 1911s were synonymous with reliability in my mind growing up. Working in a gun range, I had a chance to shoot many handguns, and none compared.
Skip ahead to 2014 and there about a million threads like this on the internet... Has manufacturing, QC, and attention to detail fallen so far by the wayside that a workhorse like the 1911 has gained a bad reputation? I am disturbed and saddened. I want another 1911 but now I'm afraid I'm going to end up with an inaccurate, unreliable, MIM/cast Saturday night special. Oh, the humanity.
I would tell anyone who's having issues with their 1911s to sell them and buy yourself an old Gold Cup or even just base model Colt. They always went bang and shot great. It's appalling that there are people out there plunking down $1000+ on unreliable pistols and that they now require a "breaking in period" - which is a term I had never even heard until I had the internet. John M. Browning is probably rolling around in his grave right now.
Colts work. Especially the 5'' guns. I just now picked up a new Series 70 repro. I used to have one a few years ago, but I let it go, because I didn't know shit about 1911s, and I failed the gun.
I'll work it over, and make it more ergonomic, and stuff. But Colts just work.
If you went out and got a S80 Gold Cup, XSE, or 70. You'd be sittin' pretty.
I also seldom hear of problems with Wilsons or Springfield guns.
Magic_Salad0892
10-05-14, 02:28
after 100 years... we're still trying to figure out the right mag for the gun.
Actually GI 7 rounders, and 230 gr. ball ammo in a 5'' steel gun is pretty much the definition of reliability.
Tripp, Wilson, and CMC magazines are pretty great too.
Good rant. I'm only 25 so I missed the glory years of the 1911. One lesson learned is, the internet is full of horsesh*t. I may not be a gunsmith but my profession is cyber security.
Here is some insight you don't see everyday.
RVTMaverick
10-06-14, 10:02
Warning: Long-ish Rant Ahead...
When did 1911's become unreliable? I keep reading about all of these $2000 boat anchors that people are having issues with on different forums and I'm literally shocked. My shooting experience started at five years old. I started with a Daisy Red Ryder. I quickly progressed to a Marlin .22 and then graduated to full on Series 70 Gold Cup + 230gr hardball by the age of seven. My dad was a 1911 guy, and my grandfather carried one during his deployment in the Pacific theater. I worked at a gun range, cranking out range reloads starting at the age of nine (child labor: yes, ridiculous liability: probably). I would load rounds for hours on end and was paid in boxes of my loaded .45 ACP hard cast SWC. I would shoot at least 50, usually 100-150 rounds a day, five days a week until I was 15 - 90% out of my Gold Cup. If you do the math, that's a lot of shooting. In all of those years and years since I've encountered ONE malfunction with a 1911. ONE. It was a stovepipe and I remember the owner of the range explaining to me why they called it a stovepipe. He reminded me of the tap, rack, bang maneuver (which I had never had to use). I cleared it and was on my way. I ended up shooting IPSC starting at age 12 and acquired a stainless Series 80 Gold Cup racegun. It too was 100% perfect.
Through the years I (unfortunately) departed from the 1911 fold, foolishly thinking that modern technology always trumps old - until not so long ago - I had been craving a 1911 and found a new Sig RCS on sale for $700 (OK, $900 with a $200 PSA gift certificate). I've dumped about 600 rounds through it and it's performed as expected.
Anyway, my point is - 1911s were synonymous with reliability in my mind growing up. Working in a gun range, I had a chance to shoot many handguns, and none compared.
Skip ahead to 2014 and there about a million threads like this on the internet... Has manufacturing, QC, and attention to detail fallen so far by the wayside that a workhorse like the 1911 has gained a bad reputation? I am disturbed and saddened. I want another 1911 but now I'm afraid I'm going to end up with an inaccurate, unreliable, MIM/cast Saturday night special. Oh, the humanity.
I would tell anyone who's having issues with their 1911s to sell them and buy yourself an old Gold Cup or even just base model Colt. They always went bang and shot great. It's appalling that there are people out there plunking down $1000+ on unreliable pistols and that they now require a "breaking in period" - which is a term I had never even heard until I had the internet. John M. Browning is probably rolling around in his grave right now.
Thank YOU for the above Thoughts/Experience/Rant.... I enjoyed it very much! :cool:
Peace Jeff
The_War_Wagon
10-06-14, 10:30
Funny thing is, the two CRAPPY 1911's I owned (used Michigan Armament, new outta the box Norinco), all begin jamming (FTF!) before the end of the second mag (before the third round on the former!). I've never had a problem with the other 1911's I've owned since (1 SA, 2 Kimbers, & 1 S&W).
For me - so far - the third mag usually decides a winner...
People who poo-poo a genuine GI M1911A1 in good shape with good components, good ammo, and good magazines are the same folks who still don't trust ARs in good shape, made with good components, fed good ammo, using good magazines.
This is the standard:
http://www.m1911.org/images/dana/pr706a.jpg
Hell, we have manufacturers now who never made firearms before, using whatever prints they drafted themselves, throwing together cast, MIM, and plastic components of dubious origin, temper, and hardness.
Just because it's shaped like a 1911 on the outside does not guarantee a damn thing. Probably one of the most-copied firearms on the planet, with tolerances to match.
It's a wonder they even shoot.
After over 40 years of shooting the 1911 I would recommend following the manufacturers recommendation for 'breaking in" the 1911 for EDC. As others have said 200 to 500 rounds and ensuring the majority of the rounds shot are the rounds you will EDC. As to issues with the 1911, most can be avoided if the 1911 is properly lubricated and good quality magazines are used. Beyond that you can not "limp wrist" the 1911. However, lemons do get through the manufacturing process and those are the ones we hear the most about. Regardless, my EDC is either a 3" or 4" 1911 and my bedside gun is a 5" 1911. My wife's EDC is either an EMP or 4' 1911. Her bedside gun is a 5" 1911. If our 1911s weren't reliable I would replace them!
It's not just 1911s. New firearms as a rule are probably the least reliable consumer products you can buy. Worse by far than lawnmowers even.
This is quite true of some of the biggest and oldest names. A high percentage fail out of the box. When you buy a new rifle, shotgun or pistol, you're not really buying a gun, you're buying a warranty claim and crossing your fingers. And the sellers mostly don't stand behind what they sell; after they get your money, they tell you they don't want to see it again, take it up with the factory.
It's scandalous. The NRA should start kicking butt, but they've been greased.
It's not just 1911s. New firearms as a rule are probably the least reliable consumer products you can buy. Worse by far than lawnmowers even.
This is quite true of some of the biggest and oldest names. A high percentage fail out of the box. When you buy a new rifle, shotgun or pistol, you're not really buying a gun, you're buying a warranty claim and crossing your fingers. And the sellers mostly don't stand behind what they sell; after they get your money, they tell you they don't want to see it again, take it up with the factory.
It's scandalous. The NRA should start kicking butt, but they've been greased.
Sad but this is truth.
Wish I had a dollar for everyone who's told me, "why wouldn't it work, it's new?" and "I'm sure it'll work fine, it's a -enter brand name-." Right after I told them to SHOOT IT before entrusting their lives to it or even loading a round in the chamber.
I wouldn't trust a new weapon with my life without vetting it. I don't care if it's a new single-shot shotgun there is a still a chance that bastard won't work! I've seen and had soo many weapons not work right when new or like new. (double barrel shotguns, revolvers, pump shotguns, etc)
"When you buy a new rifle, shotgun or pistol, you're not really buying a gun, you're buying a warranty claim and crossing your fingers."
I would agree with that and add this is true of almost any consumer item. Many firearms manufacturers are selling everything they can make so it would make sense that they would put out a lemon or two. As someone said here or somewhere else; "go with a proven performer".
Yup.
And that's why I only mess with 1911s and ARs for my serious use guns.
I know what works, how and who to do it, and parts availability is never an issue.
Sam, I always like your bluntness and I agree with you most of the time but I'd throw a Hi power in for good measure. I prefer to carry an HP before one of the shortened 1911's......but that's just me.
Oh yes, I like a Hi Power too. Carried one for a couple years myself.
I'd trust a good Hi Power or a Beretta 92 anytime.
Beretta has stayed wonderfully consistent with their 92 series. I and others bitch and moan about them killing off models like the Elites and 92G-SDs, but at least they didn't go full-diamond-plate-retard like Sig and their 153 models of questionably quality. Would be my current top choice for an Al framed handgun at the moment.
Back to the topic at hand, I do wish that discussions on "1911s" were a little more targeted. No one is building an actual M1911A1 anymore and what the market is flooded with is 1911-style handguns. Yet, discussions on these guns frequently march forward as if we're talking about a single make a model. We need to be clear on what it is, exactly, we are talking about. A Taurus PT1911 and a Wilson Combat CQB-E have about as much in common as an Olympic Arms Sporter and a KAC SR-15. Which brings me to my point: In the world of AR15's, we talk about specific makes and models as we all acknowledge that there is quite a bit of variance in what goes into the design, manufacture, and assembly of these things. There are parallels to be found with respect to the current 1911 market. I'm not denying that there are commonalities across these guns, but lets not overstate them.
Around here people seem to compare rifles based on specs, and pistols on price.
You'll get tore up if it's not a top tier brand, but anything more expensive than a JUNK Glock is just unacceptable.
Around here people seem to compare rifles based on specs, and pistols on price.
You'll get tore up if it's not a top tier brand, but anything more expensive than a JUNK Glock is just unacceptable.
^^^What he said.
10mmSpringfield
10-14-14, 13:19
If it doesn't work with the first box of ammo, something's wrong.
If it doesn't work with the first box of ammo, something's wrong.
I disagree. I carry a Kimber .45. I got it brand new. When I was "breaking it in," around the 30th factory FMJ round (S&B, if I can remember) I got a failure to enter chamber. I kept on shooting. There was never another bobble with any kind of ammo or bullet, and I trust my life to it.
I think if you have major problems out of the box, as I did with a Colt Defender (every other round failing to extract, stovepiping, or having live rounds exit through the ejection port unfired) then you have a problem.
I disagree. I carry a Kimber .45. I got it brand new. When I was "breaking it in," around the 30th factory FMJ round (S&B, if I can remember) I got a failure to enter chamber. I kept on shooting. There was never another bobble with any kind of ammo or bullet, and I trust my life to it.
I think if you have major problems out of the box, as I did with a Colt Defender (every other round failing to extract, stovepiping, or having live rounds exit through the ejection port unfired) then you have a problem.
Kimbers have MIM parts. I prefer tool steel.
Maybe we can blame the 1911's dismal reliability on Froglube.
The problem with the 1911 is that no two are alike. They're like humans... 100% unique individuals. This whole thread reminds me of the Olympic Arms owners... "But but MINE WORKS GREAT!!!"
No shit sherlock... no two are alike...and statistically there are going to be some that function fine.
My DREAM is to have Toyota build a 1911.... to see if it is actually possible to make a consistently reliable weapon.
Here's the TELL TALE clue on the 1911.... every 5 years or so a company will come out with a MAG that is FINALLY going to make your boat anchor reliable.... after 100 years... we're still trying to figure out the right mag for the gun.
GET OVER THE ROMANCE, FOLKS!!
My 1911 runs fine. Best mags that I run are Trip Research Cobras
10mmSpringfield
10-14-14, 21:52
My 1911 runs fine. Best mags that I run are Trip Research Cobras
All of my 1911s run as reliably as any other semiautomatic pistol I've owned from Sig, HK, Block, etc. I've had more problems with Sigs than any of my 1911s.
I prefer Checkmate and Colt GI mags with dimpled followers.
I've found that the 1911 platform runs reliably as long as it is maintained- especially as long as the magazines that you feed it with have strong springs.
That being said, I've found that 1911s with a little play between the slide and the frame perform better than their tight-framed brethren when they get exposed to grime and grit. I lube and clean my 5" Government model with FireCLEAN and then put a dab of Wilson Ultima-lube II Grease on the slide rails, and it seems to do just the trick.
I've also found that depending on the type of barrel that you 1911 has (ramped vs. non-ramped) it may prefer ball over certain hollow point projectiles.
I've done quite a bit of my own abusive research and I've never seen any grit get in the slide/frame rails & ways and cause a problem. It's almost impossible.
A properly built 'tight' 1911 is NO more likely to be less reliable than a 'loose' one.
I have a suspicion that many people have never experienced a properly built tight 1911. No Baer does not qualify....
I've done quite a bit of my own abusive research and I've never seen any grit get in the slide/frame rails & ways and cause a problem. It's almost impossible.
A properly built 'tight' 1911 is NO more likely to be less reliable than a 'loose' one.
I have a suspicion that many people have never experienced a properly built tight 1911. No Baer does not qualify....
Concur.
Google and find a copy of a 1911 through 1940 Army manual for the M1911/1911A1. GIs cleaned the damn things with hot soapy water due to corrosive priming, dry it, oil it, and go back to the fight. One can do the same thing today with a steel, aluminum, stainless, or plastic frame pistol -- but suggest someone do that to a personal owned gun and watch their head spin.
RVTMaverick
10-16-14, 09:37
I've done quite a bit of my own abusive research and I've never seen any grit get in the slide/frame rails & ways and cause a problem. It's almost impossible.
A properly built 'tight' 1911 is NO more likely to be less reliable than a 'loose' one.
I have a suspicion that many people have never experienced a properly built tight 1911. No Baer does not qualify....
Hey Sam,
So you are saying, some guys fighting Desert Storm wouldn't have more problems with their guns,
even if Tolerance's Tighter then another?
Why does Les Baer not qualify?
I am not meaning to be a wise ass, I am only approx. 7 years into loving and owning my own guns (1911s especially!)
just wondering because I have always like looking at alot of his 1911s and was hoping to buy one some day..
Peace Jeff
The only places that are really significantly tightened up are places where sand really can't get anyway.
The barrel locking lugs, the bushing, and slide to frame. They all slide and will push gunk out of the way. The radial lug recesses in the slide are the same and will clear smut until they're packed full. I've never experienced that.
Sand in the trigger tracks/bow, all on the hammer/FPS recess in the slide, the disconnector, and obviously the mag is where I've seen the stoppages.
I've done quite a bit of my own abusive research and I've never seen any grit get in the slide/frame rails & ways and cause a problem. It's almost impossible.
A properly built 'tight' 1911 is NO more likely to be less reliable than a 'loose' one.
I have a suspicion that many people have never experienced a properly built tight 1911. No Baer does not qualify....
Samuse, I will agree with you there, and I was talking about tight production guns as opposed to quality hand fitted 1911s. I have a Nighthawk that is as tight as can be and functions extremely reliably.
The sad fact of the matter is that until someone works a way out to get the same quality from production guns that you get from having an experienced pistolsmith work on a 1911, there will be a difference in quality and a difference in price.
One of the things that I love about the 1911 platform is that it is a pistol that is part art and part machinery- only by hand fitting parts will you get a 1911 that is what you call "properly built".
I agree with you though, magazines are (like the AR15 platform) where the majority of stoppage issues come from.
RVTMaverick
10-16-14, 11:54
The only places that are really significantly tightened up are places where sand really can't get anyway.
The barrel locking lugs, the bushing, and slide to frame. They all slide and will push gunk out of the way. The radial lug recesses in the slide are the same and will clear smut until they're packed full. I've never experienced that.
Sand in the trigger tracks/bow, all on the hammer/FPS recess in the slide, the disconnector, and obviously the mag is where I've seen the stoppages.
Cool, thanks for the info. and You've got a PM on the way.
Peace Jeff
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