Bushmaster Woes

[dellcl]

Took my new Bushmaster to the range for the second time, 1st time no issues, 2nd time had one issue not sure why it happened. My gun jammed, the carrier picked up the round didn't seem to close all the way, I was unable to move the bolt with the charge handle, I had to tap bolt with a brass rod and a hammer to get it opened, the round appeared to be squared at the taper. It happened at the end of the day so I couldn't fire anymore after it happened but I was wondering if anyone had any ideas as to why it happened. I was shooting Rem. .223 55gr. FMJ, I had only shot a hundred or so rounds, the first time I shot 45 gr. with out a problem. could this have contributed to the issue?

[MassMark]

It's a tough call - could have been attributed to a variety of factors: bad or unseated magazine, improper lubrication, weak ammo, (was it UMC?), excessively dirty weapon, Bushmasteritis, etc... I had something similar happen many years ago with my Colt HBAR. I was shooting old Wolf laquer and had a similar jam that was a tough customer to clear. I stopped using Wolf and never had it happen again. There are many who have had zero issues with both Wolf and Remington UMC - but there are some who have had problems with it. Remington UMC is reported to be underpowered and the 9mm at least, will not function reliably in my IMI Uzi which eats everything.... In short, need more info: mags, ammo, maintenance

[AMMOTECH]

Took my new Bushmaster to the range

:confused:

Is it new to you or is it a new from the factory weapon? Any non-BM parts on it?
Type of weapon? Carbine/rifle?
Did you clean/lube it before you shot it?
Condition of magazines/ did you try different mags? Who made them?
New or used mags?
Ammo... Factory/reloads? How many rounds fired before malfuntion?





.

[DocMinster]

It sounds like a combination of things a Dirty Weapon/Mag and or underpowered ammo.

I would give it another run and try the following:
Clean/Lube your weapon
Clean/Lube Mags (I use Graphite)
use different mag
use NATO spec ammo

Good luck

Doc

P.S. bring a rubber mallet with you...just incase

[CarlosDJackal]

Check the usual BM suspects. Grant had a pretty good thread about what he had to do to prepare some BM rifles for Patrol Rifle duty (ie: stake carrier key, etc.).

It might help to look through this thread: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=13532&highlight=Bushmaster

[C4IGrant]

Could be just about anything (tight chamber), bad ammo, etc.

Clean the chamber well. Clean and lube the bolt well. Get some better ammo and give it another try.

What catches my eye is the 100rd mark. If you did not clean the weapon since the last time you shot it and it has a tight chamber, a stuck casing doesn't surprise me.

Have you only shot brass cased ammo through the weapon?



C4

[TUNNEL RAT 33]

that happened to me a while back . the round was wedged up by the gas tube as the bolt went home . it was jammed in there good , and thinking i had a dirty weapon that was out of battery i slammed on the forward assist . i was shooting wwb 62gr ammo and the mag was a brand new HK . i was only loading 5 rds a mag and doing function tests on 10 new mags that i had just acquired. of course that was the day i forgot most of my range toolbox and a buddy had to help me get the jam cleared as i was a little nervous with the live round jammed in there . there is a technical term for it as i saw it posted here about a year ago. the casing was chewed up nicely and iirc the neck and bullet were a little bent . i tried to recreate the jam with the same mag and ammo ( importance of # mags ) but i couldnt . feed lips looked ok , weapon wasnt that dirty and was well lubed ( not dripping wet) . the only thing i can guess is that my mag was touching the bench , as my rest wasnt high enough , and that during recoil the seperate movement of the mag and gun going in diferent directions caused the round to pop out of the feed lips as the bolt went home after the previous shot . ?? it has not happened since with any other of my 30 mags , or my POF, or my LMT MRP , or with the Bushie . do a search - you'll find the thread here somewhere as there are a ton of people here who are experts with this weapon system -

[TUNNEL RAT 33]

do a search for feed malfunctions in the tech section .

[variablebinary]

Give it a good cleaning, do a function check, change mags and ammo and try again to see what happens.

That's usually what I do and it fixes things 80% of the time

[5pins]

I’m a little confused. Did the round make it into the chamber or did it get trapped between the bolt and charging handle?

[DocMinster]

that happened to me a while back . the round was wedged up by the gas tube as the bolt went home . it was jammed in there good , and thinking i had a dirty weapon that was out of battery i slammed on the forward assist . i was shooting wwb 62gr ammo and the mag was a brand new HK . i was only loading 5 rds a mag and doing function tests on 10 new mags that i had just acquired. of course that was the day i forgot most of my range toolbox and a buddy had to help me get the jam cleared as i was a little nervous with the live round jammed in there . there is a technical term for it as i saw it posted here about a year ago. the casing was chewed up nicely and iirc the neck and bullet were a little bent . i tried to recreate the jam with the same mag and ammo ( importance of # mags ) but i couldnt . feed lips looked ok , weapon wasnt that dirty and was well lubed ( not dripping wet) . the only thing i can guess is that my mag was touching the bench , as my rest wasnt high enough , and that during recoil the seperate movement of the mag and gun going in diferent directions caused the round to pop out of the feed lips as the bolt went home after the previous shot . ?? it has not happened since with any other of my 30 mags , or my POF, or my LMT MRP , or with the Bushie . do a search - you'll find the thread here somewhere as there are a ton of people here who are experts with this weapon system -


Tunnel Rat 33 said ..."the only thing i can guess is that my mag was touching the bench , as my rest wasnt high enough"

Tunnel Rat you are right on it is an important point that should not be overlooked.... I was a Cavalry Scout and my DS was a Scout Sniper I finished top 5 in marksmanship and he held a 4 week "Mini" Scout Sniper training class for us. one of the things he harped on was NOT to use the 30rd mag with the M16/M4 as a mono pod as it WILL lead to misfeeds.

I am not sure of the exact measurements but there is some play in the mag well and excessive pressure on the mag will induce some tilt of the mag.

Now looking back I can translate it to....we all now know the "Mil Spec" weapon made by Colt has SOME engineered "slop" to reduce malfunctions due to a dirty/dirt ridden weapon.

[HolyRoller]

"NOT to use the 30rd mag with the M16/M4 as a mono pod as it WILL lead to misfeeds."

With all due respect--that's absolute bologna. Unless you've done an actual comparison test to prove it.

[DocMinster]

"NOT to use the 30rd mag with the M16/M4 as a mono pod as it WILL lead to misfeeds."

With all due respect--that's absolute bologna. Unless you've done an actual comparison test to prove it.

Really .. Well that is what I was told by this highly decorated Scout Sniper. Since I have NEVER had a jam in the prone position ....I think I will continue not doing this as I do not want to tempt fate. :)

[HolyRoller]

Plenty of instructors mentioned regularly at this board also have their share of decorations, tabs, and distinctions, and will tell you to set the mag directly on the ground. This is because they see hundreds of thousands of carbine rounds fired every year and have a better idea than most of what causes or does not cause stoppages. In my own limited experience, I've never had an AR stoppage with the mag on the ground, but have drawn a couple with the mag well off the ground.

Also, using all available support will help to hit the target more often.

[Heavy Metal]

Really .. Well that is what I was told by this highly decorated Scout Sniper. Since I have NEVER had a jam in the prone position ....I think I will continue not doing this as I do not want to tempt fate. :)

Larry Vickers says to put the mag on the ground. Are you aware of his credentials?

[rob_s]

If using the magazine as a monopod causes a malfunction in your rifle then you need a new magazine, or a new rifle.

Just because somebody is "decorated" out the ying-yang doesn't mean they can't be wrong about something.

[C4IGrant]

Really .. Well that is what I was told by this highly decorated Scout Sniper. Since I have NEVER had a jam in the prone position ....I think I will continue not doing this as I do not want to tempt fate. :)

I ONLY shoot with the mag touching the ground and have never had a mis-feed. This is what Pat Rogers, Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, etc, etc all teach.

There is ZERO issue with using the mag as a rest.


C4

[Sam]

This is what Pat Rogers, Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, etc, etc all teach.

There is ZERO issue with using the mag as a rest.


C4

+ Paul Howe + Kyle Lamb + S Dave H.

[MassMark]

+ Paul Howe + Kyle Lamb + S Dave H.

Let us not forget MassMark.... :D

Only kidding - I have no credentials - I live a credential free existence. What I can say however, is that I have sent many thousands of rounds downrange - with many of those rounds fired with the magazine firmly seated in tera firma. Being a decorated scout sniper will earn you mad respect from me - maybe even my sisters phone number, but it does not eliminate bullshit or disinformation from the equation....

[TUNNEL RAT 33]

wow , that was only my uneducated guess as to a possible cause in my case for my misfeed . like i stated i have not had any issues since with that magazine or rifle , so i through that out there . lets not get crazy here !! LOL i do use 10 or 20 rders now when i shoot from a rest , though.

[DocMinster]

Let us not forget MassMark.... :D

Only kidding - I have no credentials - I live a credential free existence. What I can say however, is that I have sent many thousands of rounds downrange - with many of those rounds fired with the magazine firmly seated in tera firma. Being a decorated scout sniper will earn you mad respect from me - maybe even my sisters phone number, but it does not eliminate bullshit or disinformation from the equation....

I never said I was a Scout Sniper I said I am a Cavalry Scout that took a 4-week "Mini" Scout Sniper class from my Marksmanship instructor that is a Scout Sniper... BIG difference.

As for those of you that place your mag on the ground more power to you....I am sure it has and always will work for you.

I said "I have never had a problem in prone" I feel that my instructor had sound reasons for me NOT putting my mag in the Sand/Dirt to reduce Magazine malfunction...AND not to put any undo pressure on the mag as not to misdirect feeding of the round into battery. So... I don't do it then again I have the luxury of having longer forearms that keeps my mag well off the ground and I shoot with a USGI sling with my M4 and a "Quick Sling" with my M14 when in the prone position.

The Observation
Tonight I inserted a full 30 rd MAGPUL and a USGI Okay Mag and exerted cantilever pressure ...Forward.... Back and Axial pressure Up while fully inserted in my Colt 6920 Mag well. I observed SLIGHT round "shift " in all positions when the added pressure was exerted on the Mags.

Q if someone knows the equation?
I am not sure of the mathematical calculations but if I am observing a 1- 1.5mm shift with the round still in the mag, so what is the total deviation that the round will travel before it reaches battery.... maybe 2-4mm??? I imagine that would vary from the fit from mag to mag.


Q: IF it is a 2-4mm shift from the round being retained in the mag to when it is battery would that effect the seating of the round in the chamber ?... I would guess in a clean chamber probably not but in a chamber that has fired a few hundred rounds while in the middle of a firefight??
STUPID Murphy’s Law says yes.

AGAIN I do not know. SO again I am not going to "tempt fate" ;)

[C4IGrant]

I never said I was a Scout Sniper I said I am a Cavalry Scout that took a 4-week "Mini" Scout Sniper class from my Marksmanship instructor that is a Scout Sniper... BIG difference.

As for those of you that place your mag on the ground more power to you....I am sure it has and always will work for you.

I said "I have never had a problem in prone" I feel that my instructor had sound reasons for me NOT putting my mag in the Sand/Dirt to reduce Magazine malfunction...AND not to put any undo pressure on the mag as not to misdirect feeding of the round into battery. So... I don't do it then again I have the luxury of having longer forearms that keeps my mag well off the ground and I shoot with a USGI sling with my M4 and a "Quick Sling" with my M14 when in the prone position.

The Observation
Tonight I inserted a full 30 rd MAGPUL and a USGI Okay Mag and exerted cantilever pressure ...Forward.... Back and Axial pressure Up while fully inserted in my Colt 6920 Mag well. I observed SLIGHT round "shift " in all positions when the added pressure was exerted on the Mags.

Q if someone knows the equation?
I am not sure of the mathematical calculations but if I am observing a 1- 1.5mm shift with the round still in the mag, so what is the total deviation that the round will travel before it reaches battery.... maybe 2-4mm??? I imagine that would vary from the fit from mag to mag.


Q: IF it is a 2-4mm shift from the round being retained in the mag to when it is battery would that effect the seating of the round in the chamber ?... I would guess in a clean chamber probably not but in a chamber that has fired a few hundred rounds while in the middle of a firefight??
STUPID Murphy’s Law says yes.

AGAIN I do not know. SO again I am not going to "tempt fate" ;)

The easiest way to know for certain is just to shoot your weapon with the mag resting on the deck. Pretty simple and easy test.


C4

[Iraqgunz]

There always seems to be a recurring theme here about weapons malfunctions and what the cause is, etc...Let me offer a few tips. This can be compiled and simply put into a microsoft word document.


1. Check through the boards and compile a list of ammo that people discuss here. Purchase small amounts of it and test the water before you jump in.

2. Magazine issues- I have magazines that I use in the armory that are test mags. Essentially they are brand new and haven't been finger ****ed a hundred times and abused. I use them as "control" mags when someone suspects they have a mag issue.

3. Get a copy of a good TM. Though you may have the latest and greatest Wonder Bread and Skippy peanut butter model carbine and rifle, the basics of the gun are the same and the TM will describe troubleshooting, and what to look for.

4. Think about all the different crap you add to your carbine that now weighs as much as an M1 Garand and ask yourself if the problems started before or after you started playing with it.

5. When you purchase a new carbine/ rifle do a check of the weapon. Look for the correct extractor and spring, check the bolt carrier key and stakings, look for the burrs that may be causing damage to your buffer, don't be afraid to dig into the thing and learn about it. Doesn't mean you have to tear it apart completely, but most problems appear to be right on the surface. If you bought it new and you find issues, take it back or seek competent help.

6. Know what you are buying and why you are buying it before you shell out the money. Remember, learn the basics of the weapon first before buying 900.00 of accessories because they look cool in pictures.

[hahagobangbang]

Been sittin' here reading the different threads and I realized this was another chance to thank all our troops for the tough jobs they do. I am a civilian w/o any combat experience. I do my best to read up on the war in Iraq. I have enjoyed books like Generation Kill, The War We Could Not Stop, House to House, We Were One, A Moment of Truth in Iraq, America's Victories, etc. I am convinced our citizen soldiers, regular Army, & Marines are the bravest, meanest, hardcore, ass whoopin, war fightin' men & women in the world! All you folks, if you read only one book about the Iraq war read " A Moment of Truth in Iraq". Michael Yon has the most time embedded with our brave men & women of any journalist in the world and he loves our troops! I would suggest YOU DO NOT READ or PURCHASE "WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT," in my opinion it is full of anti-American rhetoric! It is quite evident through magazines like Soldier of Fortune as well as these books our troops are more than capable of the job they have been given. I would also like to thank all the LE folks in this forum as well. Thank you for taking on what I know little of, I always include you guys in my prayers. All of you civies with scooters join "The Patriot Guard Riders" in your local community. We stand for those who have stood for us. Give money to The Wounded Warriors Project, Adopt A Platoon, Concerns For Police Survivors. GOD BLESS THE GOOD GUYS.