HK VP9 vs HK P30 V1

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

I know I may get my pee-pee slapped for starting yet another VP9 thread, but I figure this one will differentiate itself from the rest.

I own both the HK P30 V1 (Light LEM) and the HK VP9. These are comparable in aesthetics and some function, but the maid difference is in the operating system; VP9 is striker fired and P30 V1 is a light DAO hammer-fired. The VP9 is slightly longer than the P30, however, the P30's slide is taller than the VP9's.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/DSC_0786_zps2fa60c58.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/DSC_0786_zps2fa60c58.jpg.html)

VP9 slide in front
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/DSC_0783_zps6f0b8bf4.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/DSC_0783_zps6f0b8bf4.jpg.html)

The P30 has two glaring issues in my opinion: the slide release levers are placed where thumbs normally sit, causing the slide to fail in locking back, and the awful trigger. HK has addressed the slide release issue by making it short, slightly recessed into the slide, and away from where the thumbs would rest.

(VP9 on left)

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/DSC_0800_zps11396e32.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/DSC_0800_zps11396e32.jpg.html)

The VP9 has a Cocker Indicator, versus the hammer of the P30 at the rear. This indicator will display a small red plunger when the pistol is cocked.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/DSC_0787_zpsfbd36b5d.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/DSC_0787_zpsfbd36b5d.jpg.html)

....continued....

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

The VP9 has a slightly less aggressive but more comfortable grip texture than the P30. The grip panel customization remains the same throughout both pistols, however they are not interchangeable.

(VP9 on top)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/DSC_0791_zpscb20e93e.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/DSC_0791_zpscb20e93e.jpg.html)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/DSC_0792_zps9997e936.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/DSC_0792_zps9997e936.jpg.html)

The VP9 has beefier slide rails on the frame, as well as a large locking block. The VP9, as you can see, utilizes a takedown lever, versus the more complicated take down of the P30 that requires you to push the left slide-release lever to the right after lining up a notch in the slide.

(VP9 on top)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/DSC_0796_zpsadb5ea55.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/DSC_0796_zpsadb5ea55.jpg.html)

(VP9 on top)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/DSC_0797_zpsfc2a2a72.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/DSC_0797_zpsfc2a2a72.jpg.html)

The light rail on the VP9 is longer than the P30's, and also protrudes much further than the P30 version.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/DSC_0789_zps6a3aa88d.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/DSC_0789_zps6a3aa88d.jpg.html)

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

The Surefire X300 extends quite a ways on the P30 light rail, versus fitting flush with the VP9.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/DSC_0805_zps0ba7c1c5.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/DSC_0805_zps0ba7c1c5.jpg.html)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/DSC_0804_zps7db3a43f.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/DSC_0804_zps7db3a43f.jpg.html)

Overall, the VP9 is such an improvement over the P30 that firing the two side-by-side makes the P30 feel foreign and silly. I am impatiently waiting on Safariland to release basket weave ALS duty holsters for the VP9 so that I can start carrying it on duty. The trigger of the VP9 is amazing, and coupled with the HK accuracy makes for one sweet shooter. The VP9 does have a more noticeable recoil impulse than the P30, but not in a way that hinders shooting. I am an awful shot with a pistol, as you are about to see, but I wanted to show my experiences with the pistol in unsupported shooting at the range. Each circle, from top left down to bottom right (5-25yds) is with the VP9 shooting crap 115grn target ammo (btw 360 rds of this through the VP9 today with no hiccups).

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/DSC_0808_zpsb430bb9f.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/DSC_0808_zpsb430bb9f.jpg.html)

This is by far my most favorite pistol, and one that actually makes me a better shooter. The P30 is now obsolete.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/DSC_0801_zpsb5afd410.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/DSC_0801_zpsb5afd410.jpg.html)


Oh, and for those new to P30/VP9 mags, expect to cut the shit out of your thumbs with this corner of the mag:
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/DSC_0807_zps869fff15.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/DSC_0807_zps869fff15.jpg.html)


And a crappy video I made comparing the trigger of the VP9, P30, G19, and SW Shield:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9JqT5ts_LY

[doodi1]

Great comparison thread, thanks for detailed comparison.

[Swamprattler]

Thanks for the video. Very good comparison of trigger resets for each of the pistols. Just picked up my VP9, and cannot wait to shoot it. This could possibly be the pistol I have always wanted. Hope HK makes a VP45.

[kihnspiracy]

Nice review. I had thought about buying a P30 after acquiring my VP9. I ended up buying a second VP9.

[YVK]

I don't think your comparison holds up to any critical review, but thanks for photos.

[ptmccain]

YVK, care to flesh out your assertion? You know, the old "he who asserts, must prove" axiom.

To the OP....great post!

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Excellent post and great pictures. Thanks again LSHD. I agree with your assessment of the P30 vs the VP9. I have owned two P30s and dumped both of them because they never quite grew on me. This was strange because I loved the the P2000 series, which I think is the best all around CCW weapon H&K makes (and in my opinion is out ahead of the G19 which is sort of the standard). I find the control revisions to be much improved, and the trigger is so obviously better than the LEM (in terms of shooting, not safety) that any discussion of it is purely academic. Up until I picked up my VP9 my M&Ps were my only "wonder nine" guns but I put them up for sale after I got some time in with my VP9. The differences between these guns are hard to quantify by just reading about them or even picking one up in the gunshot and comparing them. You need to take them out and run them a few times each, and then put a timer on them. Too often people who are used to one platform or another go out to the range and shoot 16 rounds through a gun and declare their old gun "better." They aren't lying either, you tend to prefer what you are used to. The VP9 is fortunate because, for the first time in a while for an HK, the gun has good "gun shop qualities." By that I mean the things that you can enjoy in a gunshot like a smooth trigger and a clicky reset. A lot of times those things don't translate into a panacea (like the P99, which I spent a lot of time with about 10 years ago and could never run decently at speed). The VP9 seems to have a lot of good thought and engineering put into it. It looks like actual shooters, not just engineers, had input into the final design.

Anyway, great review!

[YVK]

YVK, care to flesh out your assertion? You know, the old "he who asserts, must prove" axiom.

To the OP....great post!

There are several arguments made in favor of VP9 that don't hold water. P30 disassembly is not more complicated than that of a myriad of pistols that require slide stop to be pushed out. VP9's rail is a step down comparing to P30's. OP states that VP9 has "more noticeable recoil" but that's no problem, right? And a conclusion that P30 is obsolete because of the above?

BTW, an impartial obsever would notice that p30 slide release levers allow for more options.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I agree that the VP9s simplified takedown is a nice thing, but not a reason to choose it over the P30. On the other hand, it is better than the P30's arrangement--just not a big deal.

Why do you think the Vp9's rail is a step down?

Individual perception of recoil is a tricky thing. I feel that the VP9 recoil on par with my M&P and my buddies' G17. I always felt my M&P had less recoil than my P30.

[ptmccain]

There are several arguments made in favor of VP9 that don't hold water. P30 disassembly is not more complicated than that of a myriad of pistols that require slide stop to be pushed out. VP9's rail is a step down comparing to P30's. OP states that VP9 has "more noticeable recoil" but that's no problem, right? And a conclusion that P30 is obsolete because of the above?

BTW, an impartial obsever would notice that p30 slide release levers allow for more options.

No offense, but your remarks strike me as simply sour grapes from a P30 user o owner who just didn't like somebody dissing the P30 a bit, but ... to each his own.

I for one very much appreciate the much easier take down process on the VP9, and the OP did not mention what, in my opinion, is the BEST feature, a better handgun overall, better trigger system, at less cost than the P30, Bud's discount price on the P30 is still $850! You can get a VP9 for around $600.

[YVK]

Why do you think the Vp9's rail is a step down?



Muzzle end of rail doesn't do anything. On P30 they have removed unneeded material, reducing a bulk and slimming down that muzzle end on a slant for ease of holstering. It is a more desirable profile that is standard on some guns or is custom modded on others. On VP9 it is gone in favor of a streamlined vertical cut, probably another area where they reduced their costs.
Obviously, this is a very minor point and it wouldn't have been mentioned if not for OP's nod to VP9 on rail's account.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I doubt it saves any money to mold the rail one way or another (although I have to admit, I have no expertise in plastic molding). I figure H&K got burned so bad on the HK45c's short rail they decided to err on the side of caution. I agree, we are getting into some pretty esoteric stuff now!

I think the VP9 is just a different pistol--more in line with modern American tastes. The P30, especially in the std LEM and DA/SA is more oriented towards traditional European concerns about negligent discharges and administrative handling. Glock, as far as I can tell, originally intended his pistol to be carried empty (in the normal European military fashion) so he realized that the safety was redundant. Then people start carrying Glocks cocked and unlocked and everybody sort of got used to safteyless pistols. H&K, who primarily focused on police and military contracts ignored this trend up until they engineered the LEM system (always an afterthought add-on to the old DA/SA system). With this gun they seem like they are interested in giving the "Volks" what they want whether it is a good idea or not.

[Ed L.]

I know I may get my pee-pee slapped for starting yet another VP9 thread, but I figure this one will differentiate itself from the rest.

I own both the HK P30 V1 (Light LEM) and the HK VP9. These are comparable in aesthetics and some function, but the maid difference is in the operating system; VP9 is striker fired and P30 V1 is a light DAO hammer-fired..

If you are going to compare a P30 against a VP9 for accuracy, you should be comparing the P30S or the P30LS--handguns that allow cocked and locked carry for a cocked and locked first shot.

It is not accurate to compare a light DAO trigger against the striker fired VP9, which has one of the best striker fired trigger pulls out there.

[Talon167]

Muzzle end of rail doesn't do anything. On P30 they have removed unneeded material, reducing a bulk and slimming down that muzzle end on a slant for ease of holstering. It is a more desirable profile that is standard on some guns or is custom modded on others. On VP9 it is gone in favor of a streamlined vertical cut, probably another area where they reduced their costs.
Obviously, this is a very minor point and it wouldn't have been mentioned if not for OP's nod to VP9 on rail's account.

The only thing I can think of is because the Surefire series of lights use a 'pressure system' to fit (ie they push against the trigger guard and the face of the rail), and the rail is under a constant load, the extra material is there for support.

But, I don't know of anyone who had an issue with this on the P30 guns so not sure if it was really warranted.

[MSparks909]

If you are going to compare a P30 against a VP9 for accuracy, you should be comparing the P30S or the P30LS--handguns that allow cocked and locked carry for a cocked and locked first shot.

It is not accurate to compare a light DAO trigger against the striker fired VP9, which has one of the best striker fired trigger pulls out there.

Are we talking mechanical accuracy or inherent accuracy with each platform? If we're talking mechanical I'm willing to bet that they are both extremely similar in this regard, IE very accurate. If we are talking about inherent accuracy with each platform, then the VP9 will give the illusion of being "more accurate" to the shooter because the trigger is easier to manipulate. So in fact it is not "more accurate," it's just easier to shoot accurately than the P30 LEM due to being striker fired vs. DAO.

[Ed L.]

I assume that a person and not a robotic trigger pulling machine with a ransom rest shot the comparison groups between the P30 and the VP9 in this thread.

In other words, in the comparison in this case, don't complain that a trigger that is heavier and harder to pull yields larger groups.

[RWCRaiden]

Very good comparison. Thanks for the post man. Always glad to read this stuff and appreciate the time and effort one puts into it.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I assume that a person and not a robotic trigger pulling machine

Super Dave?

[Ed L.]

Super Dave?

Among others.

You'll note the absence of the adjective 'Super' in front of my name.

To add to what I've said, I've fired a P30s side by side with a VP9. In slow fire, the groups are fairly close.

The trigger pull weights are similar at just under 5 lbs.

However, the VP9 trigger breaks further forward and has a shorter rest than that of the P30s. Thus it is an easier gun for the average person to shoot at speed.

One of my many peeves that I have observed on other forums is some people who bought a P30/HK45/HK45C etc in LEM or DA only and then complain that they can't shoot the guns as well as they do with guns that have easier to operate triggers.

There are certainly some people who can shoot a DA only Beretta better than the average person can shoot a top 1911. But most people out there are not among them.

[Heavy Metal]

Super Dave?


I heard somebody once asked Super Dave how many dry fires he did every evening and he answered: "All of them!"

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

LOL. Super Dave has :cool: to mythological status.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

If you are going to compare a P30 against a VP9 for accuracy, you should be comparing the P30S or the P30LS--handguns that allow cocked and locked carry for a cocked and locked first shot.

It is not accurate to compare a light DAO trigger against the striker fired VP9, which has one of the best striker fired trigger pulls out there.

I apologize that my thread has irked you so, but I will stick to my "guns" here.

The average P30S carrier is not carrying cocked and locked. This I know from personal experience. Therefore they are firing DA/SA. The average first time LEM/Light LEM purchaser is doing so with the intent of having an HK with a trigger that is consistent on every pull, like they are used to with their Glock, SW, etc. Therefore, the average HK end user, from my perspective, sees the P30 LEM and the VP9 as cousins, while the P30s is a far more distant relative. I personally purchased my P30V1 after years of carrying a G17/19. I did this sight unseen with the hopes of having HK reliability/accuracy and a trigger that in some ways would replicate my striker fired guns.

The P30 is a great gun, and still very much viable today. My V1 is simply outclassed by my VP9, however the P30S (which I have VERY minimal experience with) may still hold its own against the VP. I recently went through an all LE 80 hour pistol course with my P30, and my only issues were the slide not locking back a whole lot of times (and also being made fun-of by the instructors when they dry fired the trigger and were shocked by the LOP). The LEM still has its merits, especially in LE, but I cant see any reason to place it ahead of the VP9 at this juncture.

The P30 V1 and VP9 are, in a lot of ways, apples to oranges, but I believe it is what most shooters will be comparing when faced with the decision to buy one or the other.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

There are several arguments made in favor of VP9 that don't hold water. P30 disassembly is not more complicated than that of a myriad of pistols that require slide stop to be pushed out. VP9's rail is a step down comparing to P30's. OP states that VP9 has "more noticeable recoil" but that's no problem, right? And a conclusion that P30 is obsolete because of the above?

BTW, an impartial obsever would notice that p30 slide release levers allow for more options.


Muzzle end of rail doesn't do anything. On P30 they have removed unneeded material, reducing a bulk and slimming down that muzzle end on a slant for ease of holstering. It is a more desirable profile that is standard on some guns or is custom modded on others. On VP9 it is gone in favor of a streamlined vertical cut, probably another area where they reduced their costs.
Obviously, this is a very minor point and it wouldn't have been mentioned if not for OP's nod to VP9 on rail's account.

Of course, my entire view is subjective. Shooting, especially pistol, is a very personal thing. As far as felt recoil, that can be based on strength of shoulders and grip/experience and training/fatigue/etc. While the recoil seems to be more apparent to me, it doesn't hinder my splits. My G19 is a smooth shooter, but that doesn't make it perfect. And by no means is the VP9 perfect. After hundreds of rounds on the VP9, Ive developed a blister on my trigger finger from the damn groove, one that never materialized with the P30. Beyond that, the VP9 puts my X300 further out and makes it hard for me to comfortable shoot with the momentary on/off.

As far as the rail differences, I made no mention of one being "better" than the other. One is simply longer. The P30 is more aesthetically pleasing due almost solely to the rail profile. However, the VP9 rail seems purpose-built for the X300. I fail to see how that makes it cheaper in price btw. Nor do I see how it effects holstering as I have never caught the lip of any rail on any holster (and Ive owned an XD, many Sigs, Glocks, SW M&Ps, and a few HKs). Your comment on the rail is, IMO, very subjective. The P30 V1 is, IM very HO, obsolete due to the trigger of the VP9 and the slide release levers.

The take down of the P30 is not overly complicated, but there is no doubt that it is simplified in the take down lever of the VP9, and that is fact.

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

Is the VP9 the same height as the Glock 17?

[YVK]

I fail to see how that makes it cheaper in price btw. Nor do I see how it effects holstering as I have never caught the lip of any rail on any holster (and Ive owned an XD, many Sigs, Glocks, SW M&Ps, and a few HKs). Your comment on the rail is, IMO, very subjective.


The P30 V1 is, IM very HO, obsolete due to the trigger of the VP9 and the slide release levers.



I think it is cheaper because it is a less complex geometrical form to mold and it also may have required less testing of stress points.
Yes, most of us don't get hung up when holstering; that doesn't necessarily contradict the fact that slimmer front end is generally beneficial for that. Both gun manufacturers and gunsmiths have been beveling that side in almost every way possible, bottom, sides, both. I dont't think my comment is really subjective if it is an accepted practice in general.

Re slide release: VP9 has a fixed slide release position, and there is nothing you can do about it. Incidentally, as it is shown on your photos, the reach to it is similar or even shorter than to P30. VP9's slide release will and have caused no locks for some shooters; one of web "experts" demonstrated this in his video, and one gent I know who has just sold his VP9 had same issues. This is no different from guns that have slide release there, like Glocks or Sigs, although I think HK did a better job recessing it. Nevertheless, there is little you can do other than train around it.

P30 has a giant ass slide release lever, but it is very easily modifiable. Besides factory available S and p2000 options, a little dremel and file work can give user both desirable length and thickness. The end point is easily user adjustable lever that won't cause interference yet very easy to hit for a slide lock reload. I am yet to see any timed data on speed reloads between the two, and I doubt VP9 will come on top. So, while off the shelf option on VP9 may be user friendlier for right handed shooter only, P30 wins in a sense of final adjustability. Far from obsolete.

VP9 is probably a decent/good/great gun, but I think public's enthusiasm for it is outrunning its actual merits. Two gents whose opinion I trust simply because I know them to be impartial and dispassionate evaluators have rated it less than their other striker options, and one of them already sold it. This is not an indictment on the gun; I just wish the evaluators have instilled a bit more objectivity and criticism towards the gun.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I think it is cheaper because it is a less complex geometrical form to mold and it also may have required less testing of stress points.


So you think that they have reverted to the low-cost geometry used on the MK23? :D
27580

[YVK]

They are channeling a Desert Eagle with their P30 design. P30's slant nose is friends with Chuck Rogers' bobnose. There was a shortage of plastic during P30 design, they had to go short; there was no shortage of metal so they oversized slide release levers. I dunno what else to come up with.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

LOL. People forget about the Bush plastic shortage of 06'

[RIDE]

Is the VP9 the same height as the Glock 17?

According to MFG specs the G17 is 0.12" Taller than the VP9


LOL. People forget about the Bush plastic shortage of 06'

Haha!!! Freaking Bush!!!! Single handedly ruined the plastics market! lol

[wildcard600]

Everyone knows that the VP9 is the zenith of post-modern pistol design. I saw one single handedly take down an entire platoon of hardcore ISIS/Taliban badasses.

its actually been around since the late sixties and was built and designed using tech recovered from the roswell crash debris. Only now has it been declassified and available to the public.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

We prefer it if you don't discuss top secret stuff here. We get emails from the top.

[RWCRaiden]

Everyone knows that the VP9 is the zenith of post-modern pistol design. I saw one single handedly take down an entire platoon of hardcore ISIS/Taliban badasses.

its actually been around since the late sixties and was built and designed using tech recovered from the roswell crash debris. Only now has it been declassified and available to the public.

I lol'd.