View Full Version : Freedom Munitions and X-Treme Bullets
In case anybody likes Freedom Munitions reman or new ammo and is also a reloader, they use X-Treme bullets in their .223. They're sister companies and BTW, the bullets are FMJ, not plated like the X-Treme pistol bullets are. To my knowledge, there aren't any plated rifle bullets made due to the velocity required.
I'm a big fan of the xTreme bullets, both pistol and rifle. I have loaded about 4000 of their 9mm 124 RN projectiles, as well as 500 100 gr. .380, and a ton of the .224 55 gr FMJ. You can usually score free shipping if you wait for a promo, not that shipping is bad, flat-rate $5. My last order was over 50 lbs and still only cost 5 bucks. Plus when you are getting them for cheaper than even some lead bullets, I can't complain.
NWcityguy2
08-05-14, 20:21
To my knowledge, there aren't any plated rifle bullets made due to the velocity required.
Plated rifle bullets are out there, just not as common right now. Speer Deep Curls are plated.
Plated rifle bullets are out there, just not as common right now. Speer Deep Curls are plated.
The deep curl, fusion, and gold dots use plating as a way to bond the jacket. They just plate it thick enough to create a jacket rather than a thin plating.
NWcityguy2
08-05-14, 23:16
The thickness of the plating doesn't determine if a bullet is "jacket" or "plated". It is the process used not the amount of material supplied that makes the difference.
If they were plated like a normal bullet you could not use jacketed bullet data for them. The plating is just thebonding process they use. The bullets are jacketed. Just because it is not a cup and core type bullet do3s not mean the bullet is not jacketed. You can argue semantics all you want, but the fact is that these bullets are jacketed bottom line.
NWcityguy2
08-06-14, 15:49
If they were plated like a normal bullet you could not use jacketed bullet data for them.
You sir, make an excellent point. Coincidentally (or perhaps not), Speer seems to agree with you.
"Important Reloading Data
DeepCurl's unique construction process joins the jacket to the core at the molecular level for excellent performance and consistency. For this reason, conventional reloading data developed for standard jacketed bullets should not be used to load DeepCurl® rifle bullets. Only DeepCurl specific reloading data should be used. It can be found here at reloading data pages in the reloading data pages or by contacting Speer Technical Services at 866-286-7436. DeepCurl handgun bullets can use data from the Speer Reloading Manual #14."
I couldn't have said it any better myself.
Semantics thats all I worded it badly. Im well aware of the loading procedure for the bullets that use the uni-cor bonding process. Plated bullets cannot be loaded to the velocity jacketed rifle bullets can. Some pistol bullets that are plated can be pushed to velocities of jacketed, but there is a reason you dont see many plated rifle bullets.
They have the same warning for the trophy bonded bear claw bullet which is a bonded cup and core design. Arguing that the bullets like the ones mentioned are not jacketed is a stupid argument. Speer the creators of the deep curl specifically state that the plating is a jacket. Here is a qoute from speer on the uni-cor technology. Uni-Cor technology bonds an incredibly uniform jacket to the core—one molecule at a time. There you go speer even states its a jacket.
Plus how many plated bullets can be loaded to 3000fps. You can argue semantics all you want. Speer clearly states uni-cor technology is just how they bond there jackets. So you can argue semantics all you want, but from here on you will be arguing with yourself.
.....but there is a reason you dont see many plated rifle bullets.
.......how many plated bullets can be loaded to 3000fps.
To my knowledge, there aren't any. Even if it can be done, the cost of doing so would likely make them more expensive than FMJ. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
NWcityguy2
08-07-14, 13:27
The process that Speer uses to plate their Deep Curls is based on the same technology that plated pistol bullets are made with. jstone had a beef with that arguing that the plating was thick enough to be considered a jacket but that doesn't make any sense. There is no standard plating thickness or jacket thickness when talking about bullets. The thickness on the material, plating/jacket or whatever you want to call it, is determined by the intended use of the bullet. The fact that plated bullets are getting better shouldn't surprise anyone though. Some companies are heavily invested in plating and are always looking to expand their market share.
Right now Federal is loading the 55gr Deep Curl bullet in factory 22-250 ammo that exceeds 3000 fps at the muzzle. But you are correct that they aren't more economic that FMJ rifle bullets. The real target market of plated rifle bullets is trying undercut the more expensive bonded jacketed bullets.
As I understand it A jacket is made of gilding metal... Copper/Zinc. Plating only allows you to apply pure copper which is much softer than gilding metal. Right?
Most jackets are made of gilding metal. Some can be copper only. The swift scirroco (sp) jackets are pure copper. You can plate bronze which is similar to a gilding metal. Speer does use straight copper from what I have read. Speer even states "Uni-Cor technology bonds an incredibly uniform jacket to the core—one molecule at a time." The company that designs it call it a jacket.
There is not magical thickness that makes it a jacket, but the velocity that a bullet can handle differentiates lead, plated, and jacketed. The uni-cor technology is just how speer bonds a jacket to the core. NWcitiguy2 can play semantics all he wants, but when speer says the bullets are jacketed I take there word for it.
Raven Armament
08-07-14, 18:18
As I understand it A jacket is made of gilding metal... Copper/Zinc. Plating only allows you to apply pure copper which is much softer than gilding metal. Right?
Correct.
NWcityguy2
08-08-14, 01:24
There is not magical thickness that makes it a jacket, but the velocity that a bullet can handle differentiates lead, plated, and jacketed.
What are those velocities? I'm especially curious to see the number for lead.
Also make sure to cite your source.
Correct.
Mostly. Alloys can be electroplated as well. The speed gold dot pistol ammo is pure copper, but that's all I've looked at.
Raven Armament
08-09-14, 08:37
Copper plating is an alloy. It's not 100% pure as there are trace elements.
Copper plating is an alloy. It's not 100% pure as there are trace elements.
1 - No.
2 - So now you do agree that alloys can be electroplated? Because the opposite was stated above.
3 - Almost nothing is pure, that is not the definition of an alloy. You could apply that logic to everything, but words have meanings so when you use a term, people know what you're talking about.
When I tested the jacket on the gold dots, the trace elements were within the SD of the machine (measured in ppm), so we call it 'pure.' Gilding metal is generally, 95% copper, 5% zinc. Bronze is a range of copper/tin alloys(some other metals besides tin may be considered bronze, but its usually tin), and brass is generally copper/zinc with a wide range of ratios.
True alloys, such as 70/30 brass used for cartridges, can be electroplated, but there is a specific method needed.
Raven Armament
08-10-14, 09:01
I never disagreed that alloys can be electroplated. There are different processes of plating, including electroplating and electroless plating. I perform both processes at my day job.
I never disagreed that alloys can be electroplated. There are different processes of plating, including electroplating and electroless plating. I perform both processes at my day job.
Okay, sorry. I must have misunderstood your post.
What are those velocities? I'm especially curious to see the number for lead.
Also make sure to cite your source.
1500 fps for Xtreme bullets
http://www.xtremebullets.com/Bullet-Load-Info-s/1952.htm
1500 fps for Xtreme bullets
http://www.xtremebullets.com/Bullet-Load-Info-s/1952.htm
Remember that this velocity "limit" is for the XTreme pistol bullets, all of which are plated. Their rifle bullets are all FMJ and thus Freedom Munitions uses them in all of their new and reman .223 ammo. This was specifically told to me by their respective customer service departments.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.