View Full Version : Pros/Cons of Different Light Locations?
In the past I've run my lights at 12 o'clock or slightly to either side. During nightshoots I've noticed backscatter from the muzzle exhaust which can momentarily obscure the target.
Someone suggested mounting the light at 6 o'clock so the bbl shadow is straight up to avoid the exhaust backscatter effect. While this sounds intriguing, it would also necessitate a bayonet lug mount for my TLR-1 HL and that would transfer a lot of bbl heat directly to the TLR-1 HL.
So, does a 6 o'clock location reduce/eliminate backscatter and would a bayonet lug mount transfer enough heat to damage the TLR-1? Thx...
Tomac
That sounds ridiculous. It's not gonna transfer eonough heat to make any difference.
My mini scout has been mounted right next to a battlecomp and the lens takes the brunt of the concussion and heat .
As far as the muzzle exhaust obscuring target??? Move. You shouldn't be standing in one spot anyway.
While the shadow may be annoying, it's just that.
Personally, I have tried my lights in every position... It comes down to preference,
That sounds ridiculous. It's not gonna transfer eonough heat to make any difference.
My mini scout has been mounted right next to a battlecomp and the lens takes the brunt of the concussion and heat .
As far as the muzzle exhaust obscuring target??? Move. You shouldn't be standing in one spot anyway.
While the shadow may be annoying, it's just that.
Personally, I have tried my lights in every position... It comes down to preference,
The reason I mention heat is that I briefly experimented w/a GG&G combo sling/light mount that attaches to the FSB. The aluminum body of the TLR-1 became uncomfortably warm due to direct heat transfer from the bbl to the FSB to the GG&G mount to the TLR-1. W/the bayonet lug being even closer to the bbl (literally attached to it) I have to wonder if direct heat transfer could damage either the TLR-1 or its batteries.
Tomac
The only thing I could see being a problem is the plastic mount under the TLR-1 being mounted directly to a gas blOck. Those lights get pretty hot if they are left On for too long. Ive never had nor have I heard any problems
Inkslinger
07-27-14, 19:39
As far as the muzzle exhaust obscuring target??? Move. You shouldn't be standing in one spot anyway.
Do you move after every round you fire? What if he's behind cover?
Inkslinger
07-27-14, 19:49
OP, I'm sure barrel length, position on hand guard compared to length of barrel, ammo selection, and even muzzle device would be factors in the amount of gas you experience. You'll probably have to experiment with different position to find what works best for you.
OP, I'm sure barrel length, position on hand guard compared to length of barrel, ammo selection, and even muzzle device would be factors in the amount of gas you experience. You'll probably have to experiment with different position to find what works best for you.
I'm willing to experiment (hence this thread) but my biggest concern is direct heat transfer w/bbl shadow & gas obscuration being secondary. My 6920's get very hot after only a few drills and as I mentioned earlier w/the GG&G mount the TLR-1 was uncomfortably warm (not hot enough to burn but hot enough to make you want to snatch your hand away). A bayonet lug light mount would transfer even more heat directly to the light and I'd rather have a working light in a less satisfactory location than a heat-damaged light in a better location.
Tomac
OP what is your current rifle set up? Barrel length, handguard/FSB/rail/iron set up? Might may offering suggestions easier if we know what you are working it.
Inkslinger
07-27-14, 20:04
I assume your running standard hand guards? I realize it's not the most economical solution, but maybe a longer hand guard. Something with a front sight cutout if you don't want to go with a lopro gas block.
gases will cloud the general area around the gun no matter where you mount the light. you do need to move to get around the spend gases.
as for the light taking a hit from gases, it should be fine.
on the topic of maintenance you should coat the lens with a light coat of oil in order to ease cleaning the carbon (lead for shotguns) build up from the spent gases. if you do not you will spend a lot of time scraping and buffing the lens with cleaners.
I assume your running standard hand guards? I realize it's not the most economical solution, but maybe a longer hand guard. Something with a front sight cutout if you don't want to go with a lopro gas block.
they make the mossie midnight mount for that
Do you move after every round you fire? What if he's behind cover?
Uhhh. I certainly don't stay in an "Exact" position??? Wtf??
You have other options even if you are. Standing, kneeling,prone. You forget about those?
Tell me what situation that dictates you MUST stay in one place without so much as adjusting position and I will show you a dead shooter. I have been training with my light for years. Its not just an accessory that all the cool kids have. I actually use mine. In fact I have videos, behind cover, engaging up to 3 targets while employing a WPL.
Plenty of exhaust gasses with zero problems.
If youre gonna be a sissy and worry about losing your night vision or afterimage....shoot with sunglasses
I run 12:00 because I like being able to run a light as long as I have muzzle and optic line of sight (since the light is right in between there), and it lets me run a mirrored ambi setup with momentary switch hardware (X300, M300/X600 w/ just tailcap) for shooting in a variety of positions and over barriers, this works great for me. The offset 1:30 and 10:30 positions would make sense if I needed to run a tube light around a FSP, but the X300 lets me run the 12:00 setup really comfortably and still have the fixed front sight, so there's my answer on that.
If you're worried about heat affecting the function of a quality weaponlight, you'd need to be wearing fricking oven mitts before it's comfortable to drive that gun in the first place using a FF handguard, or any mounting solution that isn't somewhat mickey mouse. If you have some partly dead batteries and budget/curiosity to replace them, just leave the light on for 15 minutes - you'd be amazed how hot they get themselves without affecting function. For visibility, excess burnt powder is an issue, but in the time it takes for that to accumulate in the air to be noticeable, it's not exactly a directed or confined cloud of burnt gas, so light placement doesn't mitigate anything for that. Setting up a fighting gun on the assumption that you'll have good visibility and only be fighting in clean clear air is silly, and anybody with the luxury of clouding themselves in with a couple magazines of burnt powder should realize that's an inconvenience, not something to drive decision making.
The reason some instructors run the 6:00 light is to run a support hand forward grip and thumb-over placement and leave room for a laser system on a suppressed carbine that works best with that setup. It isn't necessary to run high end kit, but I prefer to (M300's); the smarter value setup for that is running the VTAC 3V L4 on an aftermarket mount as a poor man's scout light; mostly the SF Executive based lights can work with a 12:00 placed LDI DBAL-I2 and I can have all my electronic sighting aids mounted at 12:00 on the carbine and be maximally ambi with minimal snag risk on gear/vehicles/other junk.
The high dollar baller solution - C4 FSP12" handguard with a 12:00 TLR or X300. This setup rocks, works well from primary and support hand. Alternatively, free floated long handguard (11-13.5") and running the same approximate template (See LAV promo pics from BCM). The TLR works great on those, even in front of a DD Fixed Front sight.
Inkslinger
07-30-14, 11:15
they make the mossie midnight mount for that
Will that allow him to mount it at 6:00?
gases will cloud the general area around the gun no matter where you mount the light.
Exactly. The light would have to be mounted feet away from the gun to avoid this. Light switch operation ergo should be the primary driver on mounting location.
Barrel shadow and all that crap is ridiculous gun counter salesman levels of nonsense to worry about.
Inkslinger
07-30-14, 11:48
Uhhh. I certainly don't stay in an "Exact" position??? Wtf??
You have other options even if you are. Standing, kneeling,prone. You forget about those?
Tell me what situation that dictates you MUST stay in one place without so much as adjusting position and I will show you a dead shooter. I have been training with my light for years. Its not just an accessory that all the cool kids have. I actually use mine. In fact I have videos, behind cover, engaging up to 3 targets while employing a WPL.
Plenty of exhaust gasses with zero problems.
If youre gonna be a sissy and worry about losing your night vision or afterimage....shoot with sunglasses
Disclaimer: I am not or never have been HSLD, nor have I portrayed myself as such.
With that said, the only flaws that I see in your response are as follows; 1) All of your experience has been in a training scenario. All of your "situation" have been predetermined by you.
2) Speaking with such certainty about a potentially life ending situation with countless variables completely discredits you. In my eyes at least.
Disclaimer: I am not or never have been HSLD, nor have I portrayed myself as such.
With that said, the only flaws that I see in your response are as follows; 1) All of your experience has been in a training scenario. All of your "situation" have been predetermined by you.
2) Speaking with such certainty about a potentially life ending situation with countless variables completely discredits you. In my eyes at least.
Roger that
Vegasshooter
08-31-14, 10:19
I have been running a WML on my DD MK18 for as long as I have had it (Surefire X300U). I run it at the 12 o'clock position for several reasons. 1) when shooting from behind cover it allows me to potentially expose less of myself as a target. If I can clear my muzzle from cover, I can use my light. If it is at the 11, or 3 o'clock position, I would be forced to expose more of myself to clear my light. 2)it is comfortable and 100% ambidextrous. 3) I can run my light as far out as I want, and mount my front sight behind it.
I truly believe everything with guns has its pluses and minuses. It's simply a matter of finding what has the most benefits and least restrictions for YOU.
I have never had my light fail because of heat induced issues. The 300U is a LED, so therefore it does not generate as much heat as the older incandescent lights do.
I have no experience with mounting at the 6 o'clock, but I can't see where it would make much difference good or bad. I guess it would be a "try and see" sort of deal. Lets you find out what works for you under stress.
I have been running a WML on my DD MK18 for as long as I have had it (Surefire X300U). I run it at the 12 o'clock position for several reasons. 1) when shooting from behind cover it allows me to potentially expose less of myself as a target. If I can clear my muzzle from cover, I can use my light. If it is at the 11, or 3 o'clock position, I would be forced to expose more of myself to clear my light. 2)it is comfortable and 100% ambidextrous. 3) I can run my light as far out as I want, and mount my front sight behind it.
I truly believe everything with guns has its pluses and minuses. It's simply a matter of finding what has the most benefits and least restrictions for YOU.
I have never had my light fail because of heat induced issues. The 300U is a LED, so therefore it does not generate as much heat as the older incandescent lights do.
I have no experience with mounting at the 6 o'clock, but I can't see where it would make much difference good or bad. I guess it would be a "try and see" sort of deal. Lets you find out what works for you under stress.
12 o'clock on a 9.5" rail?
I'd run at 12 o'clock on a 13" if I was using a red dot, but on a 9.5" it messes with my hand placement.
The 6:00 position is not good if you need to use the light from a prone position. It lights up the ground more than the target
I have switched my light to a Mossie Midnight mount at the 12:00 position. I like it
I'd run at 12 o'clock on a 13" if I was using a red dot, but on a 9.5" it messes with my hand placement.
I run the 12:00 on longer handguards, but hopefully when Rosch gets their SF-Executive sized SL-1 setups online, i can find out if that lets me run good hand placement on those shorter handguard (since it lets the light and front sight occupy the same real estate). I'm looking forward to figuring out if that's the answer I've been looking for.
I have been using a setup with a light at 11:00 o'clock on standard handguards for 9 years with no problems. I run a GG&G mount and the head of the flashlight is about even with the leading edge of the FSB. The brightest part of the flashlight beam is POA from 5 yards to 15 yards.
I broke a light mounted at 6 o'clock while sorting out the optimum position for my own purposes. I never really noticed smoke interfering with target identification; I am usually moving too much for it to be a problem.
I don't like to mount a flashlight to the barrel, bayonet lug or FSB. I prefer the light mounted somewhere between 10 and 2 o'clock on the handguard. 11:00 o'clock is the position I settled on.
I've settled on using a short, single cell CR123 light in a Gear Sector mount placed on top of the rail in front of the front sight with the light at 11:00.
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