View Full Version : Retro/ not retro AR custom Build
ClassIIIGunsmith
07-28-14, 16:03
Ok so I don't know where to start this, but I need info. I have several ar‘s and NFA firearms, but I want heads to turn. I'm wanting to build a AR-15 with a A1 buttstock, a partially fenced lower, A1 pistol grip, a rifle length gas port 16" barrel with the colt sp1 barrel thickness, a 4.5" XM-177 flash and sound moderator, a vietnam style forearm, and a A4 upper. My ultimate question where can i find the parts and for the lowest price? Also would this be a cool firearm?
ramairthree
07-31-14, 10:02
Do you truly want a rifle length gas system with a 16 inch barrel? For just a dissipator upper PSA has one on sale right now.
ClassIIIGunsmith
08-01-14, 15:45
Do you truly want a rifle length gas system with a 16 inch barrel? For just a dissipator upper PSA has one on sale right now.
Thank you and yes I want a rifle length stock. Im not a fan of short forearms.
Thank you and yes I want a rifle length stock. Im not a fan of short forearms.
The dissy's use rifle handguards just have the gas port under them at the carbine or mid position for more reliable function. As to cool the A4 upper will be totally out of place on this rifle. IMO why bother to source a partial fence lower?
As to cool the A4 upper will bt totally out of place on this rifle.
I totally agree, the A4 will look completely out of place but maybe that will be the head turner he's looking for (for all the wrong reasons).
www.AR15Sport.com
They have tons or Retro parts.
ClassIIIGunsmith
08-21-14, 15:59
The dissy's use rifle handguards just have the gas port under them at the carbine or mid position for more reliable function. As to cool the A4 upper will be totally out of place on this rifle. IMO why bother to source a partial fence lower?
I totally agree, the A4 will look completely out of place but maybe that will be the head turner he's looking for (for all the wrong reasons).
I've looked at the Dissy's I like that feature under the forearm. I want a Partial fenced lower because I don't like the fence around the mag release because I have slightly longer fingers and the mag won't positively eject because of that ridge just past the button. I also know that a A4 upper would be out of place, I like the ability to mount optics with ease, cause I own an Legal full auto Colt SP1 that I converted in 79' so if I wanted a M16 look alike to go with my real one; I would build one, but the A1 upper sucks when mounting optics. I love the Triangular forearm for the feel (come on why would so many rifles use them for over 50+ years) and I kind of need to know where to get the retro parts aside from the Upper receiver. I mean I get heads to turn because my Colt is a Colt with a legal auto sear in it, Its just I want heads to turn because my gun is weird not because its a full auto colt.
Sportsmans Guide also has retro parts.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/used-us-military-colt-m16a1-parts-kit?a=1143546
Renegade04
08-23-14, 22:03
Sarco has a good supply as well.
http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/ar15m16.aspx
Turning heads at the range is FUN... Had a guy scoff & poo poo me when I was testing my AR-180 that I built a lower that takes AR mags and FCG group... He shut up and put his plastic Shrubmaster AR away after I destroyed the 4 inch steel spinner at 100 yards with iron sights... He left when I took out my AR-15's and HK-93...
Back on your topic...
You could go with a Dissy upper and a PRI Rifle Length Delta Free Float they have a nice triangle shape...
Iron fixed rear sight and optic...
The modern retro look...
There was a guy on TOS that used to make nice copies of the Colt Modarators and Grenade Rings...
They come up for sale used now and then...
Barnacle Bill
08-24-14, 13:41
There was a guy on TOS that used to make nice copies of the Colt Modarators and Grenade Rings...
They come up for sale used now and then...
"Brick1"... makes & sells the fake ones on Gunbroker - I bought one within the last month. He does both the XM177 style (like I got) and the shorter Colt model 607 style. They are not real moderators to the Colt design, which are legally sound suppressors (but not very good ones), just FH's made to look externally the same.
These guys make a functioning copy of the original Colt XM177 moderator, but it's an NFA item...
http://www.innovativeindustriesllc.com/products/xm177-moderator
ClassIIIGunsmith
08-25-14, 14:58
Turning heads at the range is FUN... Had a guy scoff & poo poo me when I was testing my AR-180 that I built a lower that takes AR mags and FCG group... He shut up and put his plastic Shrubmaster AR away after I destroyed the 4 inch steel spinner at 100 yards with iron sights... He left when I took out my AR-15's and HK-93...
Back on your topic...
You could go with a Dissy upper and a PRI Rifle Length Delta Free Float they have a nice triangle shape...
Iron fixed rear sight and optic...
The modern retro look...
There was a guy on TOS that used to make nice copies of the Colt Modarators and Grenade Rings...
They come up for sale used now and then...
"Brick1"... makes & sells the fake ones on Gunbroker - I bought one within the last month. He does both the XM177 style (like I got) and the shorter Colt model 607 style. They are not real moderators to the Colt design, which are legally sound suppressors (but not very good ones), just FH's made to look externally the same.
These guys make a functioning copy of the original Colt XM177 moderator, but it's an NFA item...
http://www.innovativeindustriesllc.com/products/xm177-moderator
I don't mind the fakes but, I have the funds and I'm willing to wait 6 months for a real one I just want to lower flash and sound signature of a AR-15. "I want to be heard but not seen" The real one on a 16" barrel should make it and overall 20.5" but with the benefit of a slightly quitter gun. And it may help with muzzle climb when I want to put the upper on my special Colt lower from time to time.
I don't think you'll get much reduction in sound with a true Colt style Modarator... They only reduce the sound 5 decibels or so just enough that the ATF made them register them as a Suppressor... They we made to make the shorties of the old days function by building up gas pressure so the weapon would cycle correctly...
Barnacle Bill
08-27-14, 10:29
Supposedly the (real) XM177 moderator just quiets an 11.5" barrel to the sound level of a 20". Colt didn't intend it to be a sound suppressor in the usual sense, and didn't treat it as one until ATF belatedly declared it one in the 70's.
If you are going to go through all the hassle to get an actual NFA sound suppressor, I'd suggest a modern one actually designed to function as one. They make them almost as short as the XM177 moderator, although I don't know enough to advise you on which ones work the best.
ClassIIIGunsmith
08-27-14, 19:12
Supposedly the (real) XM177 moderator just quiets an 11.5" barrel to the sound level of a 20". Colt didn't intend it to be a sound suppressor in the usual sense, and didn't treat it as one until ATF belatedly declared it one in the 70's.
If you are going to go through all the hassle to get an actual NFA sound suppressor, I'd suggest a modern one actually designed to function as one. They make them almost as short as the XM177 moderator, although I don't know enough to advise you on which ones work the best.
My whole deal is no one has ever done it before. I have seen the colts with the barrel cut down to 16" from the original 20" and put suppressors on them. I want the moderator because I have fired a Real Full Auto Colt XM-177 and it cuts down the gas leaving the muzzle and lowers the flash and I know it keeps it at the sound of a 20" compared to how loud a 10.5" barrel is. I think it would work better on a 16" barrel because of theses features it does and it puts it at a 20" long barrel with it on it. Also if I really wanted to put a suppressor on it I would pull mine off my 223 Remington 700
Here is the upper you want... a Spikes GMP dissipator. It's a pencil profile 16" barrel (basically the same as A1/SP1 profile) with mid-length gas so it will actually function reliably, but the front sight and handguard retainer out at rifle length, so you can put your "hand pinchers" on it: http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=xstu5950moe
As to whether it would be cool? I think a long flash hider would be clown shoes on a 16" barrel. Everything else would be alright. If you're trying to go modern with a retro look, I'd say a 3-prong duckbill flash hider would look better than the long "sound moderator" style. A DD A1.5 rear sight, with the distinctive A1 style 5-detent windage knob, would set it off pretty nicely too.
ClassIIIGunsmith
08-28-14, 13:42
Here is the upper you want... a Spikes GMP dissipator. It's a pencil profile 16" barrel (basically the same as A1/SP1 profile) with mid-length gas so it will actually function reliably, but the front sight and handguard retainer out at rifle length, so you can put your "hand pinchers" on it: http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=xstu5950moe
As to whether it would be cool? I think a long flash hider would be clown shoes on a 16" barrel. Everything else would be alright. If you're trying to go modern with a retro look, I'd say a 3-prong duckbill flash hider would look better than the long "sound moderator" style. A DD A1.5 rear sight, with the distinctive A1 style 5-detent windage knob, would set it off pretty nicely too.
I'm like the duckbill look but the sound moderator has a heavy front weight to hold it down on target in auto unlike the duckbill. I'll figure it out when I get the upper assembled on the lower to play with it
Barnacle Bill
08-28-14, 17:55
My whole deal is no one has ever done it before. I have seen the colts with the barrel cut down to 16" from the original 20" and put suppressors on them. I want the moderator because I have fired a Real Full Auto Colt XM-177 and it cuts down the gas leaving the muzzle and lowers the flash and I know it keeps it at the sound of a 20" compared to how loud a 10.5" barrel is. I think it would work better on a 16" barrel because of theses features it does and it puts it at a 20" long barrel with it on it. Also if I really wanted to put a suppressor on it I would pull mine off my 223 Remington 700
Do what you want, but unless you are explicitly making an XM177 clone IMO the XM177 moderator really isn't worth the NFA hassle. They make modern effective suppressors roughly the same size.
ClassIIIGunsmith
08-29-14, 13:46
Do what you want, but unless you are explicitly making an XM177 clone IMO the XM177 moderator really isn't worth the NFA hassle. They make modern effective suppressors roughly the same size.
So your saying is get another suppressor. I already have one. But I still find the bang from a gun fun. Is there a system of removing the flash but keeping the flash hide look because I shoot a lot at night and the flash can be blinding especially in full auto.
Barnacle Bill
08-30-14, 16:55
So your saying is get another suppressor. I already have one. But I still find the bang from a gun fun. Is there a system of removing the flash but keeping the flash hide look because I shoot a lot at night and the flash can be blinding especially in full auto.
I have no idea how well the XM177 moderator, real or Brick's fake, works as a flash hider. My XM177 clone build using the fake is still in pieces. I would be surprised if it didn't work at least as well as an A1 FH on the same barrel length, though. For all practical purposes, the Brick fake is an extra-extra-long A1 FH.
My comment isn't about whether or not to have the bang, but whether it is worth going through all the NFA hassle for something that is legally a suppressor only by ATF's arbitrary decree and hardly does any actual suppressing. If I was building anything other than an XM177 clone, I personally would not be interested in going through the NFA hassle for a suppressor that really doesn't work very well as a suppressor. I'd either go with a non-NFA muzzle device or a suppressor that actually works. In fact, I'm thinking about doing an SBR build that is more or less a "modernized" XM177 and putting an AAC Ranger3 on it. Those are apparently not actually out yet, but they are the same length as the XM177 moderator and rather similar in appearance (just no slots and 50% larger in diameter). It would probably be compatible with Brick's repro grenade ring, although that would be purely cosmetic. If I do that project, though, it will be my first time through the NFA system (my XM177 clone is pinning the Brick fake moderator on a 12.5" barrel to avoid SBRdom).
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