View Full Version : Jury Awards Ventura $1.8M in Defamation Case Against ‘American Sniper’ Chris Kyle
Way to keep it classy Jesse.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/07/29/jury-awards-ventura-1-8-in-defamation-case-against-deceased-american-sniper-chris-kyles-estate/
Jury Awards Ventura $1.8M in Defamation Case Against Deceased ‘American Sniper’ Chris Kyle’s Estate
A jury awarded former Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura $1.8 million Tuesday in his lawsuit against the estate of “American Sniper” author Chris Kyle.
On the sixth day of deliberations, the federal jury decided that the 2012 best-selling book defamed Ventura in its description of a bar fight in California in 2006. Kyle wrote that he decked a man whom he later identified as Ventura after the man allegedly said the Navy SEALs “deserve to lose a few.”
http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/600x41712.jpg
WickedWillis
07-29-14, 14:04
****ing pile of shit.
What an arse.
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
****ing pile of shit.
x2. The jury included.
Breacher 217
07-29-14, 14:40
That's an delicate/expensive ego...
x2. The jury included.
They deliberated quite a bit, and the judge sent them back after they couldn't make a decision. I'm willing to bet that they were forced to decide in his favor on a technicality.
Averageman
07-29-14, 16:00
You jump in to a "Ring" with bleached blonde hair, wear a feather boa and a speedo and suddenly you're worried about your public image ?
The idea that he would go after a Widow to take money from an estate that was set up for her and her children, that just gives azzhats a bad name.
skijunkie55
07-29-14, 16:08
Careful... He might file a defamation law suit against M4C next...
What an ass clown.
Well, if CK didn't deck him in that bar, maybe someone will for this act of kindness. Keep it classy, Jesse.
ColtSeavers
07-29-14, 16:25
You jump in to a "Ring" with bleached blonde hair, wear a feather boa and a speedo. and suddenly you're worried about your public image ?
The idea that he would go after a Widow to take money from an estate that was set up for her and her children, that just gives azzhats a bad name.
Let's not forget his spectacular pile of dung TV show Conspiracy Theory as well, and agreed on all accounts.
Magic_Salad0892
07-29-14, 16:57
Now I'm convinced that the bar story is true.
Wonder if he plans on attending the UDT-SEAL Reunion this year?
Magic_Salad0892
07-29-14, 17:22
I also don't care for the fact that Ventura is still telling people that he was a Navy SEAL, when he was only a UDT.
According to the jury instructions, Ventura had to prove with “clear and convincing evidence” that Kyle either knew or believed what he wrote was untrue, or that he harbored serious doubts about its truth.
And I wonder how exactly they were able to satisfy that qualification?
Fit's in line with some of the nonsense I've seen Ventura espouse on his ridiculous conspiracy show. Ventura, his lawyer and the jury should all have their asses kicked.
I also don't care for the fact that Ventura is still telling people that he was a Navy SEAL, when he was only a UDT.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Ventura#Navy_SEAL_background_controversy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Ventura#Navy_SEAL_background_controversy
I still don't get this one. My understanding is there were depositions and affidavits from people who saw it. Regardless, How is it really that important, end of the day, that he convinces some jury he didn't get punched in the nose? How does it really impact his "career" in any way? The jury, nor the settlement, prove it was invented or actually took place, and either way, end if the day, who f-ing cares? No one but Jesse.
Tough guy Jesse can't live with the fact (1) a guy punched him in the nose for being a loud mouth A hole or (2) didn't punch him in the nose but claimed he did.
Am I missing something?
I'm a little torn over this one. On one hand, I'm not a big JV fan. On the other hand, I'm not at all convinced that CK's claims about the incident are true. It seems that a variety of witnesses give very different accounts. All of the witnesses for JV say the same thing - that nothing ever happened. CK's witnesses give varying accounts that range from hearing JV make negative statements to seeing him laid out on the ground after some type of confrontation. However, none of CK's witnesses can corroborate his entire story. Keep in mind this is a room full of people who supposedly watched this unfold - odd. Making matters worse, both sides had either current or former SEALs providing sworn testimony which means that multiple people wearing a Budweiser are having honesty issues.
My other problem with all this is a disturbing pattern of unbelievable claims attributed to CK about SEALs killing people around the Superdome and him killing a car jacker at a gas station. None of that helps his credibility in the JV case.
Marcus Luttrell posted this on Facebook today:
http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac279/jaxman7/_facebook_562652735__zps2w44oach.jpg (http://s907.photobucket.com/user/jaxman7/media/_facebook_562652735__zps2w44oach.jpg.html)
That about says it all. Taya probably has it hard enough already and now has been drug through the mud with this freaking nonsense.
-Jax
I still don't get this one. My understanding is there were depositions and affidavits from people who saw it. Regardless, How is it really that important, end of the day, that he convinces some jury he didn't get punched in the nose? How does it really impact his "career" in any way? The jury, nor the settlement, prove it was invented or actually took place, and either way, end if the day, who f-ing cares? No one but Jesse.
Tough guy Jesse can't live with the fact (1) a guy punched him in the nose for being a loud mouth A hole or (2) didn't punch him in the nose but claimed he did.
Am I missing something?
My understanding is that JV's issues were more about the statements that were attributed to him and less about the reports that he was punched in the nose. Apparently CK claimed that he made some rather vile statements about his country and the Teams.
Moose-Knuckle
07-29-14, 19:17
How about CK's other claims, I remember a thread here that went into some of them, like the one where he shot dead a would be car jacker in Dallas, and the police let him go no questions asked, let him keep his CCW, after they called a Pentagon hotline and was told he was HSLD?
There were some others, I see if I can dig up the thread so as to link it.
Moose-Knuckle
07-29-14, 19:18
My understanding is that JV's issues were more about the statements that were attributed to him and less about the reports that he was punched in the nose. Apparently CK claimed that he made some rather vile statements about his country and the Teams.
Correct, in a SEAL/UDT watering hole no less.
.46caliber
07-29-14, 19:48
If JV was worried about his name and character, then go for an apology, retraction or edit to future printings.
Going after 1.8 million from a deceased veteran's estate doesn't do much to reinstate character.
The result of the case doesn't improve JV's standing in my humble eyes.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
If JV was worried about his name and character, then go for an apology, retraction or edit to future printings.
Going after 1.8 million from a deceased veteran's estate doesn't do much to reinstate character.
The result of the case doesn't improve JV's standing in my humble eyes.
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That is it - pure and simple as a man. No need to drag family (especially the deceased family's members) into the argument.
As my Father taught me, "man to man and leave it at that".
remember courts found OJ not guilty !
he should have maned up and said a hero died helping another hero I am backing out and donating X amount in his name to wounded warriors or something ? and this would have been over a while ago
instead his actions show Kyle did tell the truth IMHO
KARMA buddy you will get yours
Did JV file the lawsuit before or after CK's death?
Moose-Knuckle
07-29-14, 20:20
Did JV file the lawsuit before or after CK's death?
IIRC before.
KalashniKEV
07-29-14, 20:22
...the police let him go no questions asked, let him keep his CCW, after they called a Pentagon hotline and was told he was HSLD?
There were some others, I see if I can dig up the thread so as to link it.
As a former resident of New Orleans, my favorite was that CK supposedly got on the roof of "the Superdome" post-Katrina and shot 30 people dead.
He must have had some excellent camo!
Moose-Knuckle
07-29-14, 20:27
As a former resident of New Orleans, my favorite was that CK supposedly got on the roof of "the Superdome" post-Katrina and shot 30 people dead.
He must have had some excellent camo!
Yeap, I almost forgot about that one.
Wonder if he plans on attending the UDT-SEAL Reunion this year?
Regardless of whether he or CK were telling the truth, pressing the suit after CK's death, knowing it would negatively impact the family was BAD form. If he tries to attend the reunion, I think he'll find himself persona-non-grata on that score alone.
Did JV file the lawsuit before or after CK's death?
It was filed before CK's death. When he died, I could see JV pressing the part of the suit demanding Harper Collins (the publisher) remove the part about the bar fight on all future copies. Going for the $1.8M from the surviving family is just repugnant. :mad:
If JV was worried about his name and character, then go for an apology, retraction or edit to future printings.
Going after 1.8 million from a deceased veteran's estate doesn't do much to reinstate character.
The result of the case doesn't improve JV's standing in my humble eyes.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
It was filed before CK's death. When he died, I could see JV pressing the part of the suit demanding Harper Collins (the publisher) remove the part about the bar fight on all future copies. Going for the $1.8M from the surviving family is just repugnant. :mad:
My understanding is that JV offered to drop the case if CK retracted his claim about the statements dishonoring the Teams. CK's wife was given the same offer.
I just read through all of these posts. I find it difficult to determine what the real truth is.
Whiskey_Bravo
07-29-14, 23:40
If JV was worried about his name and character, then go for an apology, retraction or edit to future printings.
Going after 1.8 million from a deceased veteran's estate doesn't do much to reinstate character.
The result of the case doesn't improve JV's standing in my humble eyes.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
This.
I don't really care if Kyle lied or didn't lie about an effing bar fight or if JV did or didn't say negative things about the SEALs. Pushing forward with a lawsuit against the "estate" of CK is the epitome of classless asshat.
My understanding is that JV offered to drop the case if CK retracted his claim about the statements dishonoring the Teams. CK's wife was given the same offer.
So his asshatery is justified because he offered the widow the opportunity to call her dead husband a liar? FFS really?
So sorry that CK's widow had to endure this after her loss.
MountainRaven
07-30-14, 00:23
So his asshatery is justified because he offered the widow the opportunity to call her dead husband a liar? FFS really?
And if he did lie?
I mean, I know you already said that you don't care if he did or he didn't. But just because he lied doesn't diminish his contributions to his country. And just because of his contributions to his country doesn't mean he may not have been a liar. (And if he was willing to lie about that, what else might he have lied about?)
My understanding is that JV offered to drop the case if CK retracted his claim about the statements dishonoring the Teams. CK's wife was given the same offer.
It would be sad if CK was prone to fabricating stories, and I could see where JV would be upset if the claim wasn't true. I think any member of the military, and most Americans, would be rightly offended if somebody said they made a statement about "being able to lose a few" with regard to any member of the military.
The problem of course is now that CK is gone, there is really no way to determine what is what and asking his widow to make a determination when in reality she probably has less information than anybody only makes it worse.
If the story is true then the last thing his widow is going to do is dishonor his name by supporting the idea that it was fabricated.
If the story is made up, do you really think he told his wife the truth of the matter? He's gonna lie to her too and she'd have no reason not to believe it.
The entire matter is sad and unfortunate and should have never gotten this far. You'd think that certain kinds of men would be able to sort out "he said / she said" without lawyers, courts or dragging family into it.
While I wouldn't call myself a "fan" I respect the service of Ventura and share many Libertarian views with him. Though often misguided, I believe he means well, or at least he did in the past.
I have nothing but respect for Kyle and it troubles me to think about him being anything less than honest. Up to this point I had not heard about some of the "claims" attributed to him.
The judgement against the Kyle family hardly improves anything.
If Ventura never made the statement, he has now done something that puts him and a very poor light and calls his honor into question. If Ventura did make such a statement, this only compounds things.
If I were Ventura, I would take the legal victory and then decline the cash. Jesse can certainly afford it.
Why didn't the court award the V $1.00 and tell him to get lost? I don't comprehend suing a dead man's estate when debt is not the issue. Anyway, bars catering to the warrior type clientele tend to have a high testosterone climate. The guy who drinks there should be aware that alcohol and balls are an explosive mixture. If he gets punched out, he should have kept his mouth shut or gone somewhere else to start with. I'm reminded of some of the red neck roadhouse bars that I sometimes visited decades ago. Another name for them was skull orchards. Had I got my ass beat the sheriff would have told me I didn't have no business there anyway.
Moose-Knuckle
07-30-14, 01:57
Everyone keeps talking about the $1.8 million settlement like it is bankrupting a poor widow. How much does JV owe in attorney fees and court costs? How much has CK's family/estate made from his books and his soon to be released feature Hollywood film?
DreadPirateMoyer
07-30-14, 03:21
This suit wasn't about the fight that most likely never happened (CK was prone to making up fantastical stories, and none of his witnesses could corroborate the same story; JV's witnesses, on the other hand, told the same story every time). This suit was about CK's claims that JV disparaged his country and said that the SEALS "deserve to lose a few" members (also probably made up). Because of Chris Kyle's claims in his book, JV asserts that he was shunned from certain communities, lost TV and entertainment deals, and had people refuse to do business with him. So yes, if CK lied and profited from it, and it caused JV to lose out on a metric shit-ton of money and relationships, CK and his estate are liable for the damages JV endured.
And like Moose Knuckle said, it's not even close to bankrupting CK's estate. They're fine.
From my perspective, CK very likely committed libel against JV and it cost JV a lot in his life. Whether or not that makes the legal threshold for this verdict, I don't know and don't really care, but I also don't see JV's victory as that big of a deal either way. CK's estate is just fine, and JV's losses have been repaid. Might as well get on with our lives.
Everyone keeps talking about the $1.8 million settlement like it is bankrupting a poor widow. How much does JV owe in attorney fees and court costs? How much has CK's family/estate made from his books and his soon to be released feature Hollywood film?
Why does it matter if its 1.8mil or 18 bucks, and why does it matter if Taya has it or not. The point is that, that scumbag should have dropped the case if he was an honorable person, which we know he is not, and with the case proceeding he should have never been awarded the judgement.
Why does it matter if its 1.8mil or 18 bucks, and why does it matter if Taya has it or not. The point is that, that scumbag should have dropped the case if he was an honorable person, which we know he is not, and with the case proceeding he should have never been awarded the judgement.
This....after lawyer fees, etc. Ventura is not taking much $$ home at the end of the day.
Before this incident, most everyone who bothered to look into things, knew already Ventura has been BSing about his "US NAVY SEAL credentials for many years.
steyrman13
07-30-14, 06:49
Delete.
Regardless of the amount he may actually take home I hope he chokes on every single penny of it!! JV has never been much of anything and now he's even less.
Did JV file the lawsuit before or after CK's death?
This.
Also, they asked for 15 million in damages.
This suit wasn't about the fight that most likely never happened (CK was prone to making up fantastical stories, and none of his witnesses could corroborate the same story; JV's witnesses, on the other hand, told the same story every time). This suit was about CK's claims that JV disparaged his country and said that the SEALS "deserve to lose a few" members (also probably made up). Because of Chris Kyle's claims in his book, JV asserts that he was shunned from certain communities, lost TV and entertainment deals, and had people refuse to do business with him. So yes, if CK lied and profited from it, and it caused JV to lose out on a metric shit-ton of money and relationships, CK and his estate are liable for the damages JV endured.
And like Moose Knuckle said, it's not even close to bankrupting CK's estate. They're fine.
From my perspective, CK very likely committed libel against JV and it cost JV a lot in his life. Whether or not that makes the legal threshold for this verdict, I don't know and don't really care, but I also don't see JV's victory as that big of a deal either way. CK's estate is just fine, and JV's losses have been repaid. Might as well get on with our lives.
Bingo. Glad he went about it the right way. You know he could've bad mouthed Chris Kyle after his death, but he didn't. He offered to drop the lawsuit numerous times if they would just admit that he never said that about the SEALS killed in action.
ramairthree
07-30-14, 07:56
Not a classy move by any means.
Unfortunately,
there are enough other questionable claims that it makes me wonder.
Why would a large, studly guy in the prime of their life brag about punching a 60 year old man in the face and knocking him on his ass anyway?
If the story is true, JV is scum.
If the story is not true, the classy thing to do after the death would have been to drop the wife from the lawsuit and make the publisher own it.
I think a lot of the upset stems from people uncomfortable with the possibility of an otherwise honorable, solid guy they respect having spun some BS, and the tragedy off their too early death.
Details matter and can be spun.
A SEAL may claim they have half a dozen Bronze Stars for Valor.
A closer look may reveal they did in fact receive one BS for Valor, but the other five were a V device denoting they were in a TIC, and the Navy V does not have to be for valor vs. just being there.
A guy may claim he was a Ranger in Vietnam. He was there in a LRRP company that was later re-designated as a Ranger company. He had already done his tour and had not gone to Ranger school.
I had a guy telling me all about his Air Force SOF time, and how much diving and free fall he did, etc. and his extra med training, etc. All giving the impression he was a PJ. But did not flat out say they were a PJ. Ended up being they were med tech or IDMT at an AFSOC unit and did a bunch of civy free fall and diving.
A guy said he was SF in Desert Storm. And he was wearing a CIB. Turns out they were the Bn NBC officer- but had been sent to the Q-course. Later determined the CIB was awarded in error as they were an NBC officer that was SF qualified- and not an SF branch officer eligible for the CIB.
Did they lie? Embellish? Just not give enough detail?
Wish the family did not have to be put through this,
but,
if in fact the story was a fabrication-
it could have been straightened out or better yet never written about.
I think some folks who have a lot of respect for CK's accomplishments in the service of his country are a little too quick to skip over the Dallas CCW shooting and the New Orleans Superdome stuff. Both of those items feel like sea stories to me. If false, the stories diminish CK, and if true, they really diminish him and point to potentially criminal activity. Jf the JV stuff is also a sea story and it slandered JV, (who I think is an asshat) and cost him money, than he had a cause of action. I'm not sure that I would have continued after CK's death, but on the other hand, the estate could have settled too. Being a warrior, sniper, SEAL... doesn't give you carte blanche to do or say what you want and not be held accountable.
It would be sad if CK was prone to fabricating stories, and I could see where JV would be upset if the claim wasn't true. I think any member of the military, and most Americans, would be rightly offended if somebody said they made a statement about "being able to lose a few" with regard to any member of the military.
The problem of course is now that CK is gone, there is really no way to determine what is what and asking his widow to make a determination when in reality she probably has less information than anybody only makes it worse.
If the story is true then the last thing his widow is going to do is dishonor his name by supporting the idea that it was fabricated.
If the story is made up, do you really think he told his wife the truth of the matter? He's gonna lie to her too and she'd have no reason not to believe it.
The entire matter is sad and unfortunate and should have never gotten this far. You'd think that certain kinds of men would be able to sort out "he said / she said" without lawyers, courts or dragging family into it.
While I wouldn't call myself a "fan" I respect the service of Ventura and share many Libertarian views with him. Though often misguided, I believe he means well, or at least he did in the past.
I have nothing but respect for Kyle and it troubles me to think about him being anything less than honest. Up to this point I had not heard about some of the "claims" attributed to him.
The judgement against the Kyle family hardly improves anything.
If Ventura never made the statement, he has now done something that puts him and a very poor light and calls his honor into question. If Ventura did make such a statement, this only compounds things.
If I were Ventura, I would take the legal victory and then decline the cash. Jesse can certainly afford it.
That is about where I am and donating the cash (after legal fees) would be the way to go. This is one of the best articles that I've seen regarding the issue:
http://www.twincities.com/ci_22926041/slain-navy-sniper-ventura-foe-was-he-liar
.46caliber
07-30-14, 08:38
The thing that turns my stomach the most is the only winners here are the attorneys. Its a bunch of bickering that indiscriminately drags the guilty and the innocent through the mud, spends tax dollars and at the end of the day no one looks any better. But the lawyers get their checks.
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I think Ventura's a d-bag. But, he also offered to drop the lawsuit numerous times if Chris Kyle would admit that never talked poorly of the SEALs, he wouldn't. There are news articles (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/30/the-complicated-but-unveriable-legacy-of-chris-kyle-the-deadliest-sniper-in-american-history/?tid=hp_mm) refuting other Chris Kyle claims, such as the Dallas CCW shooting (http://www.twincities.com/ci_22926041/slain-navy-sniper-ventura-foe-was-he-liar), and the supposed Superdome sniper shootings. (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/06/03/in-the-crosshairs)
Taken from an article from Jay Stephenson:
In a videotaped deposition, the former sniper admitted that he could not remember who told him Ventura had hit his head on a sidewalk and received a black eye (http://www.startribune.com/local/266448121.html) amongst other inconsistencies in his story. He also admitted to deleting Ventura’s name from the book out of fear of being sued (http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2014/07/10/slain-sniper-author-kyle-says-in-video-testimony-left-ventura-out-book-over/). Additionally, witnesses with close ties to the bar have pledged to testify on Ventura’s behalf that the event never occurred (http://www.startribune.com/local/266230451.html).
Thanks Irish, that seems to paint a different picture...
I think Ventura's a d-bag. But, he also offered to drop the lawsuit numerous times if Chris Kyle would admit that never talked poorly of the SEALs, he wouldn't. There are news articles (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/30/the-complicated-but-unveriable-legacy-of-chris-kyle-the-deadliest-sniper-in-american-history/?tid=hp_mm) refuting other Chris Kyle claims, such as the Dallas CCW shooting (http://www.twincities.com/ci_22926041/slain-navy-sniper-ventura-foe-was-he-liar), and the supposed Superdome sniper shootings. (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/06/03/in-the-crosshairs)
Taken from an article from Jay Stephenson:
Exactly. Your points are well made. However, there is another player in this whole mess who gets under my skin: Marcus Luttrell. ML and CK were friends in the teams and ML was plugging CK's book on his Facebook page. It was also ML who put forth this notion of his buddy, CK, killing 2 car jackers only to have it covered up by the police. It was also ML who embellished numerous aspects of Operation Red Wings such as the number of insurgents being 200 and the vote to execute the prisoner all to make a better book (the Navy disputes both of these accounts).
So, we have two friends who decide to leave the Teams and write books. Both guys don't seem to have a problem with playing loose with their facts if it helps sell their books. Neither guy seemed to mind if their fantastical stories hurt veterans or the memory of other service members (Mike Murphy's parents have disputed ML's account of the vote to kill a prisoner).
SEAL's father: Survivor's book dishonors son's memory
Father of Patchogue's Lt. Michael P. Murphy says new account of death is a 'disservice' to slain men
BY MICHAEL ROTHFELD
The father of Lt. Michael P. Murphy, a Navy SEAL from Patchogue who was killed in fighting in Afghanistan in 2005 and who is under consideration for the Medal of Honor for heroism, Tuesday called the first public account of the mission by its only survivor a disservice to the men who died.
Former Petty Officer 1st Class Marcus Luttrell, 31, spoke on NBC's "Today" show about the June 2005 battle in which three SEALs were killed.
His appearance was timed to the publication of his book, "Lone Survivor."
In an interview with "Today's" host Matt Lauer, Luttrell spoke of how the four SEALs were discovered hiding out on a mountainside in eastern Afghanistan by three local goat herders while they waited to kill or capture a high-ranking Taliban leader. He said the four men voted to spare the herders' lives, and that 45 minutes later they were surrounded by 80 Taliban fighters. Killed were Murphy, 29, Petty Officer 2nd Class Danny P. Dietz, 25, and Petty Officer Matt Axelson, 29.
In the NBC interview and in the book, Luttrell describes a discussion by the four SEALs and then a vote to let the herders go. That account, said Daniel Murphy, a former Suffolk County prosecutor and now a law clerk in State Supreme Court in Riverhead, is a far cry from what he said Marcus told the Murphy family not long after the death of their son.
"That directly contradicts what he told Maureen, myself and Michael's brother John in my kitchen," said Murphy, who watched Luttrell on television but said he hasn't read the book. "He said that Michael was adamant that the civilians were going to be released, that he wasn't going to kill innocent people ... Michael wouldn't put that up for committee. People who knew Michael know that he was decisive and that he makes decisions."
Sounds like bottom line is don't publish things you cannot 'easily' back up...obviously.
Not so quiet professionals...
Exactly. Your points are well made. However, there is another player in this whole mess who gets under my skin: Marcus Luttrell. ML and CK were friends in the teams and ML was plugging CK's book on his Facebook page. It was also ML who put forth this notion of his buddy, CK, killing 2 car jackers only to have it covered up by the police. It was also ML who embellished numerous aspects of Operation Red Wings such as the number of insurgents being 200 and the vote to execute the prisoner all to make a better book (the Navy disputes both of these accounts).
So, we have two friends who decide to leave the Teams and write books. Both guys don't seem to have a problem with playing loose with their facts if it helps sell their books. Neither guy seemed to mind if their fantastical stories hurt veterans or the memory of other service members (Mike Murphy's parents have disputed ML's account of the vote to kill a prisoner).
I've heard Marcus tell his stories in person, and was very moved. I've also read quite a few things where people refute Luttrell's story and point out many inconsistencies.
As a former squid I have a lot of respect for the SEALs, but if they go off the rails, they should be called on it.
That is about where I am and donating the cash (after legal fees) would be the way to go. This is one of the best articles that I've seen regarding the issue:
http://www.twincities.com/ci_22926041/slain-navy-sniper-ventura-foe-was-he-liar
Good read, thanx. There's so much head scratching "WTF?" info in that article, my head spins. At this point, the truth will never be fully known and best Jesse can do, is drop it and it will be gone in the next news cycle. I suspect he's the type that enjoys, make than needs, attention, good or bad and will use it as long as he can using the "any press is good press" mantra favored by narcissists the world over.
Some of the claims made by Kyle on other events does make one wonder the status of his mental status, but in the end, it matters not at this point to me.
Let's not forget that CK's widow also has a big attorney bill and that pulling $1,800,000 plus another $100,000(at least)--cash money--from the wife's estate will definitely hurt. Just think. How much money do you have to gross in order to produce $1.8-2 million dollars in cash after taxes?
WickedWillis
07-30-14, 12:59
Man, there are ton of internet commandos on this thread that were not there at the bar that night, obviously neither was I. There are some damn bold statements coming out of some mouths here. I'm going to go ahead an believe a man who served his country with honor and is incredibly well respected among his peers, over someone who also served his country, but seems to always be out to make a buck. Tin foil hats and all.
I don't know about that night, but I find VERY difficult to believe the stories where he says he killed two people at a gas station, or the one where he sat on the superdome killing looters after Katrina. And for me that puts everything written by him into perspective, and casts a shadow of doubt above all. YMMV...
WickedWillis
07-30-14, 13:16
I don't know about that night, but I find VERY difficult to believe the stories where he says he killed two people at a gas station, or the one where he sat on the superdome killing looters after Katrina. And for me that puts everything written by him into perspective, and casts a shadow of doubt above all. YMMV...
I think some of the Chris Kyle-like-Chuck Norris lore fits into the Katrina and the gas station robbery theories, and FYI I hadn't heard these until I saw them on this thread.
This reporter states that Kyle told him of the gas station incident in this article. (http://frontburner.dmagazine.com/2013/02/08/confirmed-american-sniper-chris-kyle-killed-two-men-at-a-gas-station-in-2009/)
Since his death, a few reporters have heard trickles of other stories. Around Midlothian, one story in particular has been raising eyebrows. It goes something like this: when he was first back from Iraq, in 2009, Chris Kyle killed two armed men who were attempting to carjack him at a gas station.
I first heard this story more than a year ago. It hasn’t made the news much. There was a brief mention in Marcus Luttrell’s second book. And now the Star-Telegram has a blog item mentioning the story and how difficult it is to confirm. Well, as it turns out, I’ve been working on a story about Chris Kyle for about nine months. We talked regularly, mostly about the challenges and triumphs of his transition home. I first asked him about the story last summer, during an interview in his Dallas office. I said: “Now, I have to ask you about an incident that I’ve heard about. I heard it happened at a gas station.”
He said: “You mean the time I shot two guys trying to steal my truck?”Â
I sat there stunned for a few seconds. The incredible story I’d heard, I figured there was no way it was true.
“It’s true,” he said...
Man, there are ton of internet commandos on this thread that were not there at the bar that night, obviously neither was I. There are some damn bold statements coming out of some mouths here. I'm going to go ahead an believe a man who served his country with honor and is incredibly well respected among his peers, over someone who also served his country, but seems to always be out to make a buck. Tin foil hats and all.
Apparently a jury that got to hear the facts doesn't see things your way.
skijunkie55
07-30-14, 13:25
Apparently a jury that got to hear the facts doesn't see things your way.
Yet the other party in this instance is not alive to tell his side...
The thing that turns my stomach the most is the only winners here are the attorneys. Its a bunch of bickering that indiscriminately drags the guilty and the innocent through the mud, spends tax dollars and at the end of the day no one looks any better. But the lawyers get their checks.
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I couldn't have said it better myself. Does anyone in this thread really feel like JV is the better person today? He may be $1.8M more flush than he was yesterday, but I still think pretty poorly of him as a person. CK is dead, so I wouldn't speak ill of the dead even if I did think less of him. His widow CAN'T retract something she didn't say and wasn't witness to. Hearsay anyone? That dog won't hunt, so JV never should've tried to make it. He could've made a public statement that he never said what was alleged, that he never got punched by CK and that he has witnesses who will attest to that fact. CK is now dead and so the matter is closed.
I hope he enjoys the $1.8M, because it isn't going to shine his star or help him make money in the future. Taking the high road might have, but that ship has sailed. :(
I would be willing to bet that 1.8mil doesn't even cover his attorney fees. Ventura stated several times it wasn't about the money. He wanted a redaction, which obviously was refused....so he took legal action.
I would be willing to bet that 1.8mil doesn't even cover his attorney fees. Ventura stated several times it wasn't about the money. He wanted a redaction, which obviously was refused....so he took legal action.
Did Ventura's attorney request the court order his attorney fees be paid by the defendant?
Did Ventura's attorney request the court order his attorney fees be paid by the defendant?
Caught an interview this morning with JV (CBS or NBC I think). When asked what he was going to do with the award he stated "pay my attorneys". When asked if he was done he stated he'd likely be going after the publisher for "failure to do due diligence by publishing false information".
He does not have time to bleed.
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HarperCollins states the offending passage will be removed. (http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/jury-awards-ventura-18m-defamation-case-24760869)
The passage from the best-selling memoir "American Sniper" that sparked former Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura's defamation lawsuit against author Chris Kyle will be removed, publisher HarperCollins said Wednesday.
Interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0gtibVQ_Do
Moose-Knuckle
07-30-14, 16:17
I think some folks who have a lot of respect for CK's accomplishments in the service of his country are a little too quick to skip over the Dallas CCW shooting and the New Orleans Superdome stuff. Both of those items feel like sea stories to me. If false, the stories diminish CK, and if true, they really diminish him and point to potentially criminal activity. Jf the JV stuff is also a sea story and it slandered JV, (who I think is an asshat) and cost him money, than he had a cause of action. I'm not sure that I would have continued after CK's death, but on the other hand, the estate could have settled too. Being a warrior, sniper, SEAL... doesn't give you carte blanche to do or say what you want and not be held accountable.
This is where I am out on all this.
After reading the entire thread and looking up a few things, I have to say...
Who give a flying whiskerbisket? Jessie Ventura is a gigantic douche but was supposedly lied about( ok maybe )in a book. Who cares? I don't. I know he is douchenozzle, but I've never met Chris Kyle. So basically he robs a dead mans grave for a perceived slight/asskicking/whatever...
Both these guys supposedly wrote the check. They put thier lives on the line. I hope Chris didn't lie, and I hope Jessie didnt either, but I wasn't there and I don't trust the so called justice system to tell me a damn thing. So ...
Moose-Knuckle
07-30-14, 16:20
Exactly. Your points are well made. However, there is another player in this whole mess who gets under my skin: Marcus Luttrell. ML and CK were friends in the teams and ML was plugging CK's book on his Facebook page. It was also ML who put forth this notion of his buddy, CK, killing 2 car jackers only to have it covered up by the police. It was also ML who embellished numerous aspects of Operation Red Wings such as the number of insurgents being 200 and the vote to execute the prisoner all to make a better book (the Navy disputes both of these accounts).
So, we have two friends who decide to leave the Teams and write books. Both guys don't seem to have a problem with playing loose with their facts if it helps sell their books. Neither guy seemed to mind if their fantastical stories hurt veterans or the memory of other service members (Mike Murphy's parents have disputed ML's account of the vote to kill a prisoner).
IIRC there have been several more books to come out, one by a Marine and even someone from the 75th who refute some of what ML states and tells their own version of Operation Red Wings.
Victory Point: Operations Red Wings and Whalers - the Marine Corps' Battle for Freedom in Afghanistan (http://www.amazon.com/Victory-Point-Operations-Whalers-Afghanistan/dp/B0043RTAOS)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Ventura#Navy_SEAL_background_controversy
Jesse Ventura filled out his own wikipedia page.
That's why you don't find the citation for, he is a fag, anywhere on that page
I'm sure glad he was able to restore the perception of his fine character. It really takes a righteous upright man to sue the widow of a fallen hero. What an ass hat.
I would be willing to bet that 1.8mil doesn't even cover his attorney fees. Ventura stated several times it wasn't about the money. He wanted a redaction, which obviously was refused....so he took legal action.
If that was truly the case then he could have sued to enjoin the publisher from the continuing publication and requested fees upon showing the requisite of malice required for this case.
He went for damages instead.
Furthermore, this isn't a complicated case. If he owes 1.8 million in fees for a defamation case... Then I need to find employment in that kind of a firm ASAP.
I don't buy it for one minute.
Man, there are ton of internet commandos on this thread that were not there at the bar that night, obviously neither was I. There are some damn bold statements coming out of some mouths here. I'm going to go ahead an believe a man who served his country with honor and is incredibly well respected among his peers, over someone who also served his country, but seems to always be out to make a buck. Tin foil hats and all.
So I'm confused... which SEALS are you believing. The ones that say it did happen or the ones that say it didn't. If the owner of the bar was testifying that it didn't happen, and other SEALS said it didn't happen. I doubt the owner of a SEAL bar would piss of his clientele by lying. It is at best, a push. So then you layer on the super dome stuff and the dallas stuff, and you have a potential pattern. Being a hero, sniper, warrior... does not mean you didn't get caught in a sea story - which is why he called him scruff face in the book...Hell I know of truly heroic people who go into "irish storytelling mode" from time to time. On the other side, JV is a conspiracy theorist of the first order... so there is not a lot of credibility all the way around. So I go to the jury in the room who decided it. They heard the evidence.
just the fact this was over a I have bigger ones than you at a bar and was about TALKING and a punch and something he wrote when there is so much controversy over you already and your past its something you let slide IMHO anyway
the fact this ever became a lawsuit makes the one who filed a lawsuit a total pussy IMHO
the fact you were a wrestler makes you a fraud to begin with and the shows you did and the stuff you said about things being covered up confirmed that fraud !
this lawsuit is like taking out a nail set and making sure you burry the thing even a bit deeper !
The judge's explanation of the jury instructions can be read here. (http://www.twincities.com/crime/ci_26237278/jesse-ventura-wins-1-8m-defamation-case) Scroll about 1/2 way down the page and the scanned pages are there. Pg. 10 - 14 are a head scratcher as far as the defense goes. I'm not a lawyer but I wouldn't have settled on a jury that wasn't unanimous in their decision.
Probably one of the biggest reasons the case was lost. http://www.startribune.com/local/266448121.html
But afternoon testimony may have shifted some sympathy to Ventura’s side. In the deposition, videotaped a year before his death, Chris Kyle said he could not remember who told him that Ventura had hit his head when he fell to the sidewalk, could not recall how he learned that Ventura had a black eye, and conceded that tables did not go “flying” during the 2006 confrontation in a bar near San Diego, which he described in his book “American Sniper.”
While calmly stating that the fight had indeed occurred and that he had punched Ventura in the face, Kyle also conceded that Ventura may not have used a vulgarity in describing former President George W. Bush, which Kyle wrote in the book was one of the reasons he struck him.
Interesting article about the book proceeds (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/384176/justice-jesse-ventura-was-right-his-lawsuit-j-delgado/page/0/2) that were supposed to be donated to charity. Out of millions of dollars they managed to donate $52k.
This came up in a recent conversation I had with someone in the know who stated the story is not credible. Could say a little more but it would really serve no purpose so take it for what it's worth, just was left having no idea why someone so respectable and accomplished would feel the need to fabricate as implied.
Not surprised only 52k went to charity. They never tell the public that only a % of proceeds are donated and the rest is pocketed.
Not surprised only 52k went to charity. They never tell the public that only a % of proceeds are donated and the rest is pocketed.
The issue I have isn't with how much they're willing to donate. It's your book, it's your deal. The reason I bring it up is there's a pattern of lying. Running your gums about the proceeds going to charity while the coffers are overflowing. From the article:
Consider what Kyle’s publisher wrote after his tragic passing: “He dedicated his life in recent years to supporting veterans and donated the proceeds of American Sniper to the families of his fallen friends” (italics mine). An article in The Blaze definitively proclaimed: “A perfect reflection of his character, Kyle gave all proceeds from his best-selling book American Sniper to the families of soldiers killed in combat” (italics mine). Or this line from a Human Events article: “For American Sniper, Kyle donated the profits from that book to charity.” Kyle himself perpetuated this idea, telling the same proceeds-went-to-charity tale to the Texas News Service and even adding that he regularly received tearful calls and letters of thanks.
Like this:
Earlier on Wednesday, Kyle’s widow, Taya, testified that the couple never intended to profit from the book. In often tearful testimony, she said the couple wanted to donate money to other veterans but were limited by gift tax laws that prevented them from donating more than $13,000 each to two families last year. The book has earned more than $3 million in royalties.
Even better:
Olsen suggested in additional questioning of Kyle that she could have created a nonprofit and given away much more money than she has. Kyle said she had not had the time to set up such a nonprofit.
ala JSOC now compared to the 82nd
:(
Hey, we can Battle Drill 1 the **** out of West McKeithan Pond.
ramairthree
07-31-14, 12:04
I am not familiar enough with the historical UDT - SEAL distinction.
I had previously thought JTBV was a SEAL VN veteran. But that is what was going around the barracks when he was in Predator.
The SF VN distinction is colorful as well.
I once had a First Sergeant that was awarded his SF tab when they came out. He was a SF/Green Beret VN veteran. He had been in the 82nd for DR. Volunteered for some cool "Air Assault" concept the ended up being a year in VN with 1st Cav. Came home, volunteered for SF. Was sent to Panama jungle school, some recon training, and went to Vietnam and was on an ODA that did LRRP recon stuff. Never did the Q course.
A friend that is retired but still a DAC was drafted. Did a year in VN with the 101st. Came home, went to OCS, went Infantry, was sent to Group. Before he went to the Q course he was sent to VN as a team XO for a year. Came home. Before the Q course 7th Group was short a TL and he was sent to VN for a 6 month tour as a TL. Came home, went to flight school and later retired.
Both are by the military considered SF qualified and were awarded tabs in the 80s.
Both are fully Green Beret / flash qualified but never did the Q course.
When I first came in, 11B-Sierras sometimes did stuff like leave group or their other unit to get PSG or 1SG time in Ranger Bn. Soon after, the 11 / 18 series split /tabs came on board.
Doc Safari
07-31-14, 14:02
After reading quite a bit of material (including this thread), I'm at least leaning toward believing Ventura. I'm kind of shocked to come to that conclusion, but there are just too many "sea stories" as someone put it, and the Ventura one sounds like another.
p22shooter30
07-31-14, 14:28
so im confused. someone made up a story about another person, made money off of the story, the guy who he lied about tried to clear his name. how is the person clearing his name a douche. he reached out before kyles death and said drop the story and I will drop the lawsuit. kyle said no. he dude lied and a jury agreed. what is the problem?
I would really like someone who was there to just tell the damn truth. I really don't trust a damn thing that comes out of Jessie Ventura's mouth and I don't know Chris Kyle. So the only thing I do know is that these guys served. Would like the truth, but at the same time, who gives a shit? It was between the two of them and one of them wrote about it. The supposed justice system is not the way to go. Need an eyewitness to hash this and get the truth.
I think some folks who have a lot of respect for CK's accomplishments in the service of his country are a little too quick to skip over the Dallas CCW shooting and the New Orleans Superdome stuff. Both of those items feel like sea stories to me. If false, the stories diminish CK, and if true, they really diminish him and point to potentially criminal activity. Jf the JV stuff is also a sea story and it slandered JV, (who I think is an asshat) and cost him money, than he had a cause of action. I'm not sure that I would have continued after CK's death, but on the other hand, the estate could have settled too. Being a warrior, sniper, SEAL... doesn't give you carte blanche to do or say what you want and not be held accountable.
I think it appears to be the case that those tall tales are attributed to him by journalists; some of whom claim to have heard them from CK and some of them who heard them from someone who claimed CK told them. I'd feel more certainty of concern about your concern if CK himself was on tape telling those, as he was on TV talking about the Ventura altercation.
I don't know either one of them and I have to assume justice was served. If the story indeed wasn't true, and if I were as public as JV, I might have done the same. Not sure I would have continued after his death, but the insurance companies will pay off the settlement so it isn't like he's taking food out of the mouths of CK's family.
I have a real hard time being judgmental in this case either way. I certainly don't see JV as a DB....I think his getting into politics was a good thing overall. We need more people like him and fewer like you know who......I don't agree with everything that comes out of his mouth, nor do I with most people, but that doesn't make them DB's.
What I do know, first hand, is that some very public people, do afford him the right to call himself a SEAL and they don't go much further into this topic as they know about as much as I do on the subject.
steyrman13
07-31-14, 15:32
This came up in a recent conversation I had with someone in the know who stated the story is not credible. Could say a little more but it would really serve no purpose so take it for what it's worth, just was left having no idea why someone so respectable and accomplished would feel the need to fabricate as implied.
Which part? About the bar and JV or the superdome/car jackers. Which were also from journalists mouths? I haven't seen an actual video of him telling these stories
I honestly don't know what to believe... but why in the world when you know the jury is deadlocked and you are on CK side, why would you allow and 8-2 decision to rule? That makes no sense.... you want to agree to make it easier to lose? which seemed to have worked out just fine.... The whole ordeal seems screwed up from start to finish.
The verdict was 8-2, with the jury foreman being one of the two that sided with the Kyle estate. In most cases a unanimous verdict is required, but attorneys on both sides agreed that an eight-juror majority would decide the case to break a stalemate.
I think it appears to be the case that those tall tales are attributed to him by journalists; some of whom claim to have heard them from CK and some of them who heard them from someone who claimed CK told them. I'd feel more certainty of concern about your concern if CK himself was on tape telling those, as he was on TV talking about the Ventura altercation.
Which part? About the bar and JV or the superdome/car jackers. Which were also from journalists mouths? I haven't seen an actual video of him telling these stories
There were several interviews, but this one with Bill O'Reily was the most egregious:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VU5MLcWXzfo
steyrman13
07-31-14, 19:38
There were several interviews, but this one with Bill O'Reily was the most egregious:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VU5MLcWXzfo
Right. Take a look again at what JHC and I were asking. Is there video of him talking about the superdome and carjackers like the JV story?
Right. Take a look again at what JHC and I were asking. Is there video of him talking about the superdome and carjackers like the JV story?
Exactly! I remember hearing the story about US elite unit military snipers in the new Orleans Superdome during Katrina to combat gangs or criminals. I always rolled my eyes at this. Now suddenly we hear that Kyle supposedly claimed to have been involved. What next are we going to hear that he supposedly claimed?
And after Kyle was dead we have a journalist claiming that Kyle told him that the story about Kyle shooting the carjackers was true.
Moose-Knuckle
07-31-14, 20:27
There were several interviews, but this one with Bill O'Reily was the most egregious:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VU5MLcWXzfo
Reading the comments to that video is proof positive that the expiration date of Western Civilization is forthwith . . . :suicide:
Right. Take a look again at what JHC and I were asking. Is there video of him talking about the superdome and carjackers like the JV story?
Exactly! I remember hearing the story about US elite unit military snipers in the new Orleans Superdome during Katrina to combat gangs or criminals. I always rolled my eyes at this. Now suddenly we hear that Kyle supposedly claimed to have been involved. What next are we going to hear that he supposedly claimed?
And after Kyle was dead we have a journalist claiming that Kyle told him that the story about Kyle shooting the carjackers was true.
Ah, now I understand your question. There is no video of CK making the gas station or Superdome claims. However, both of these stories were reported in 2012 before CK was killed and right about the time of his book release. He never made any public statement refuting either. In fact, the gas station shooting story was first published by Marcus Luttrell in his second book, Service: a Navy SEAL at War, in 2012. This was a full year before CK's death and about the same time that his own book was being published and advertised on Luttrell's Facebook page. There were a couple of reporters who also quoted CK on this story around this time.
The Superdome story is a little more shady. Unlike the gas station story it was never put into a book. I also noticed that the reports came from internet media sources such as The Democratic Underground and The Daily Paul (of all places) which may or may not be credible depending on your perspective. However, this one also floated around cyber space with at least one former SEAL (Brandon Webb) backing up the claims.
I get the feeling that CK did not push these 2 stories, but was content to let them simmer and build mystique around his book. He also probably never planned to identify "Scruff Face" as JV when he came up with the story. However, that's the problem with this little tall tales, on slip in the discipline and they start to take on a life of their own as full blown lies.
DreadPirateMoyer
07-31-14, 22:43
I don't agree at all that Ventura should have dropped the suit when CK died. If Ventura's claims are true (and I believe they are based on CK's exaggerations and stories), CK essentially stole from Ventura. He stole Ventura's reputation and future earnings and turned a profit from it. It was money earned by victimizing and exploiting and lying about someone else. Just because the wife was the executor of CK's estate doesn't make the money she received any less criminally-earned. (and yes, this is a civil court case; I'm talking philosophically here)
I look at it like Ruth Madoff. Sure, she may have not been involved in Bernie's scam, but the money she received from her husband was still illegitimate and was owed back to the victims who had it stolen from them. Same thing here, except the theft was of reputation and future earnings.
It's a crappy situation, but trying to clear his own name and get back ill-gotten money that CK left his wife doesn't make JV awful here. He didn't do anything wrong. CK did, and the money he left his wife at JV's expense was never hers in the first place.
I don't agree at all that Ventura should have dropped the suit when CK died. If Ventura's claims are true (and I believe they are based on CK's exaggerations and stories), CK essentially stole from Ventura. He stole Ventura's reputation and future earnings and turned a profit from it. It was money earned by victimizing and exploiting and lying about someone else. Just because the wife was the executor of CK's estate doesn't make the money she received any less criminally-earned. (and yes, this is a civil court case; I'm talking philosophically here)
I look at it like Ruth Madoff. Sure, she may have not been involved in Bernie's scam, but the money she received from her husband was still illegitimate and was owed back to the victims who had it stolen from them. Same thing here, except the theft was of reputation and future earnings.
It's a crappy situation, but trying to clear his own name and get back ill-gotten money that CK left his wife doesn't make JV awful here. He didn't do anything wrong. CK did, and the money he left his wife at JV's expense was never hers in the first place.
Well said. The irony of this is that CK's book would have been equally successful had he never included the fabricated story. I doubt that anyone bought his book because of that story or any of the other fantasies that were spun around the time of its release.
Unfortunately, I can say the same thing about Marcus Luttrell. His books would have been equally popular had he stuck to the story that he gave in his AAR on Operation Red Wings.
Exactly! What next are we going to hear that he supposedly claimed?
.
One word . . . Grassy . . .
CK's book was enjoyable on one level and disturbing on a few IMO about professional culture and maturity etc. Dedication and skill was not in doubt.
steyrman13
08-01-14, 06:43
I don't agree at all that Ventura should have dropped the suit when CK died. If Ventura's claims are true (and I believe they are based on CK's exaggerations and stories), CK essentially stole from Ventura. He stole Ventura's reputation and future earnings and turned a profit from it. It was money earned by victimizing and exploiting and lying about someone else. Just because the wife was the executor of CK's estate doesn't make the money she received any less criminally-earned. (and yes, this is a civil court case; I'm talking philosophically here)
I look at it like Ruth Madoff. Sure, she may have not been involved in Bernie's scam, but the money she received from her husband was still illegitimate and was owed back to the victims who had it stolen from them. Same thing here, except the theft was of reputation and future earnings.
It's a crappy situation, but trying to clear his own name and get back ill-gotten money that CK left his wife doesn't make JV awful here. He didn't do anything wrong. CK did, and the money he left his wife at JV's expense was never hers in the first place.
I don't think CK ruined JV reputation. I think JV did that all on his own way before CK made a statement about 1 paragraph long in a book. For ex. I pretty much knew exactly who he was referring too while reading his book before I knew anything about the fight in the media or CK on tv saying it was JV. This means that his reputation was already tainted. On top of that, CK didn't profit only because of that one little excerpt in his book, his book sold for people wanting to read about the American hero.
While I agree it could have been left out, it certainly didn't all of the sudden change JV reputation.
Now we see JV is going atl free the publisher which he claims "didn't do his due diligence to bet the story." Well it shouldn't matter, because the book does not specifically name JV it talks about a character named scruff face.
How would anyone have known who it was to even as CK in interviews (or even think it important to ask in interviews since it was such a small and sidetracked, unimportant part of the book) if people couldn't already draw the conclusion who it was based off of the reputation of JV in the first place alluding more that his reputation was not hurt by a small statement in a book
I don't think CK ruined JV reputation. I think JV did that all on his own way before CK made a statement about 1 paragraph long in a book. For ex. I pretty much knew exactly who he was referring too while reading his book before I knew anything about the fight in the media or CK on tv saying it was JV. This means that his reputation was already tainted. On top of that, CK didn't profit only because of that one little excerpt in his book, his book sold for people wanting to read about the American hero.
While I agree it could have been left out, it certainly didn't all of the sudden change JV reputation.
Now we see JV is going atl free the publisher which he claims "didn't do his due diligence to bet the story." Well it shouldn't matter, because the book does not specifically name JV it talks about a character named scruff face.
How would anyone have known who it was to even as CK in interviews (or even think it important to ask in interviews since it was such a small and sidetracked, unimportant part of the book) if people couldn't already draw the conclusion who it was based off of the reputation of JV in the first place alluding more that his reputation was not hurt by a small statement in a book
I disagree. JV was developing the reputation as a moonbat conspiracy theorist, but not a traitor or someone with disdain for his country. It appears that he was courting the Alex Jones crowd for his future livelihood. CK's comments in the book and on TV shifted this image to something on the level of the Westboro Baptist Church which made JV unemployable. You may disagree but that is how a jury saw it.
steyrman13
08-01-14, 07:44
I disagree. JV was developing the reputation as a moonbat conspiracy theorist, but not a traitor or someone with disdain for his country. It appears that he was courting the Alex Jones crowd for his future livelihood. CK's comments in the book and on TV shifted this image to something on the level of the Westboro Baptist Church which made JV unemployable. You may disagree but that is how a jury saw it.
The comments in the book never led me to believe he was a traitor, but more of run his mouth. He is apparently employable to be able to afford the 1.8mil in lawyer fees he is claiming to have to owe.
Either way it wasn't a smart move on CK part, but it literally was such a small part of the book, I just read it and got back to the story rather than worrying about that small detail.
I feel the court case is what brought more attention to the small part of the book rather than the actual paragraph in the book drawing the attention of the world.
The whole thing does not change my opinion about either of them
CK hero
Ventura zero
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Apart from the lawsuit drama, it never ceases to amaze me how people are willing to believe some impossible war stories, and apparently NEED to create superheroes and put them on a pedestal.
There are plenty of heroes (of all kinds) around, without all the mystical properties, but people don't like to recognize that.
Apart from the lawsuit drama, it never ceases to amaze me how people are willing to believe some impossible war stories, and apparently NEED to create superheroes and put them on a pedestal.
There are plenty of heroes (of all kinds) around, without all the mystical properties, but people don't like to recognize that.
I think that much of CK's post-war shenanigans were an attempt to stay relevant. In the SEALs he was larger than life, a living legend if you will. There are several reports that he struggled with the transition back to an "ordinary" life. This is not uncommon and each person has their own strategies for making the change. Only in Chris' mind, he may not have been ready for that change. Perhaps these fables are a manifestation of the superhero taking down the bad guys with fists of furry that he wanted to remain after the service.
That is my $0.02 psychoanalysis of how this stuff happens. Take it for what it's worth.
I feel the court case is what brought more attention to the small part of the book rather than the actual paragraph in the book drawing the attention of the world.
The O'reilly interview is what brought the spotlight. "The Punch" as it is called was the center point of the interview which led to more interviews. Suddenly, it is no longer just an obscure page out of the book, but a major point of discussion. That is how these lies snowball. There was no case before that interview because JV was never formally identified as Scruff Face.
Even after the judgement the Kyle family still has millions made off of the book. They have more left from the sales then most here will make in a life time.
And the movie comes out in 2015.
Apart from the lawsuit drama, it never ceases to amaze me how people are willing to believe some impossible war stories, and apparently NEED to create superheroes and put them on a pedestal.
There are plenty of heroes (of all kinds) around, without all the mystical properties, but people don't like to recognize that.
You are more amazed by a strawman you just created than by real people.
The comments in the book never led me to believe he was a traitor, but more of run his mouth. He is apparently employable to be able to afford the 1.8mil in lawyer fees he is claiming to have to owe.
Either way it wasn't a smart move on CK part, but it literally was such a small part of the book, I just read it and got back to the story rather than worrying about that small detail.
I feel the court case is what brought more attention to the small part of the book rather than the actual paragraph in the book drawing the attention of the world.
This is known as the Barbara Streisand Effect.
None of this crap should ever have gone public. None of it. Not from CK or JV. If there were words and/or a scuffle between two men at a bar, that info should have stayed at that bar.
This whole thing is disgusting from every angle. Piss poor judgement and piss poor role modeling from two men that should know better.
Now I need to go back and read some old posts from Army Chief, to remind myself how a man with impeccable dignity and class conducts himself.
Leaveammoforme
08-04-14, 21:31
Where you stand on the stories is on you. The Kyle Estate may have 'plenty' of money but that doesn't bring a Dad back. You have probably never heard about my Dad but he is the biggest/fastest/strongest/smartest dude I've ever known. I would never retract a statement he made no matter how far fetched it my seem even if others told me it was untrue.
If you feel you would like to assist Taya and the kids,
http://www.forged.com/collections/the-legend
MountainRaven
08-04-14, 21:58
Where you stand on the stories is on you. The Kyle Estate may have 'plenty' of money but that doesn't bring a Dad back. You have probably never heard about my Dad but he is the biggest/fastest/strongest/smartest dude I've ever known. I would never retract a statement he made no matter how far fetched it my seem even if others told me it was untrue.
If you feel you would like to assist Taya and the kids,
http://www.forged.com/collections/the-legend
Are you trying to insinuate that Ventura had Kyle killed?
Because I don't see how Kyle not coming back from the grave is relevant to the question of, "Did Chris Kyle slander and/or libel Jesse Ventura"?
Here's a hypothetical: If your father were Adolf Hitler and he told you that he never hurt a Jew in his life... and the Israeli government had him extradited, tried for crimes against Mankind, and found guilty - would you still believe him?
http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2013/12/chris-kyles-former-business-partners-say-his-widows-lawsuit-is-completely-groundless.html/
Ima just gon leave dis' here.............................................
(looks like the poor widow can file suits herself)
Man, that girl can't catch a break..... there is a funny thing about money though... unless you take it to Vegas, honest people can usually tell you where went.
My $0.02-
Anyone who read the book could realize there was a bit of reading between the lines to be done, and a few winks here and there. So personally, I took *everything* in the book with a grain of salt.
As far as the lawsuit- it's all hogwash, BUT the fact that a big deal was needed to be made of it by a certain party pretty much says, to me, that there's a bit of truth to it somewhere.
That and JV being quoted somewhere talking about how he "won't be welcome at SEAL/UDT reunions anymore" or such.
He should have just let it drop- let hearsay be hearsay, if that's what it really was.
True or not, at least then you have the out of saying "oh really? That's an interesting story..." to any folks who want to press the issue. Especially as JV wasn't named specifically in the book. If I didn't know there was an issue previous to reading the book, I never would have guessed who it was....
But noooooo..... people can't just walk away....
My $0.02-
Anyone who read the book could realize there was a bit of reading between the lines to be done, and a few winks here and there. So personally, I took *everything* in the book with a grain of salt.
As far as the lawsuit- it's all hogwash, BUT the fact that a big deal was needed to be made of it by a certain party pretty much says, to me, that there's a bit of truth to it somewhere.
That and JV being quoted somewhere talking about how he "won't be welcome at SEAL/UDT reunions anymore" or such.
He should have just let it drop- let hearsay be hearsay, if that's what it really was.
True or not, at least then you have the out of saying "oh really? That's an interesting story..." to any folks who want to press the issue. Especially as JV wasn't named specifically in the book. If I didn't know there was an issue previous to reading the book, I never would have guessed who it was....
But noooooo..... people can't just walk away....
The problems came when CK went on The Opie and Anthony Show, and the O'Reilly Factor and identified JV by name - big mistake. If you are going to do that, then you had better have your shit together. Otherwise, our legal system has a tendency to bite you in the ass. In this case, CK's shit was a mess and it's actually easy to see how a jury might arrive at the decision when you review the witness testimony.
Now, you may not like how a SEAL widow got caught up in the law suit. At first glance it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. However, others have pointed out that she has her own credibility issues by marketing the book as a charity effort to fallen warriors while keeping 98% of the profits.
If you ask me, all of the players in this story are vultures. But, I'm certainly not going to hero worship a guy or have pity on his widow when they both show a propensity to play loose with the facts to make a buck.
http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2013/12/chris-kyles-former-business-partners-say-his-widows-lawsuit-is-completely-groundless.html/
Ima just gon leave dis' here.............................................
(looks like the poor widow can file suits herself)
Yup, poor thing is the victim of big bad Jesse Ventura. She's also not afraid of the courtroom because this isn't the only lawsuit her and her brother have cooked up out of fear of having their assets taken from them.
Now. The hero worship is just silly. The guy did his job, reportedly pretty well by his teammates' accounts. But there were a few of us shunned to silence by about day three of everyone creaming their pants over a book that was full of inaccuracies. Much of the stories were the type that can't be confirmed, and those that can were immediately called out by those there. I know several of the HOGs on the Scout Sniper team that shared a rooftop with CK who couldn't believe how willing to lie CK was. And surprise, he's in business with ML who hasn't been so keen on telling the truth either. The rise to fame wasn't something CK did with a lot of grace, and while he seemed like a cool enough guy with a lot of technical knowledge, that doesn't make if okay to lie.
The problem these days is so many Americans are trying to understand what it was like for so few who experience it. Yet the ones writing these accounts, which the public seem to take as factual, aren't the ones who should be doing the telling. They're using the stigma and sacrifice of those who served honorably and using it to peddle lies to make a buck. That's about as low as it gets. And before someone says it wasn't their fault, omission or allowing a false fact to be printed and circulated are the same as lying.
JV sued CKs ESTATE. He didn't go slap her with a subpoena during the funeral, he didn't target her and wait until she was a widow. He doesn't have long finger nails and live in a dark castle on a cliff like all the good villains on TV. He sued for damages and from the start it's easy to see that CK was guilty of slander/libel. There's a lesson for everyone who warns to write a book; Don't make claims that damage the reputation of anyone. True or not, don't do it. It's odd that these cases happen every day with corporations, individuals, and everything in between. But nobody cares about those, only when a Texan and SEAL (the recipe for a hero no matter what he does) are accused does it become so outrageous.
As for TK, she's pretty okay with ruining reputations too. She filed charges against someone I know from a professional point in my past. Her allegations are completely absurd, what he is accused of is part of his job and likely the result of an error made by one of her personal assistants or publishers. The amount she is suing for is petty, in the tens of thousands. Why would someone with plenty of money have so many pots on the stove in various money-making ploys? And while I know that her "I'm a widow of a HERO and he STOLE FROM MEEEEE!" accusations are complete bullshit, it doesn't matter. She burned him from his profession which has been his life for almost two decades. He'll never pick up a client again. I'm sure some of the guys who like to act like they knew CK with their gay little memorial bracelets will take her side, anything to be cool by association, but the two have been in it for the money since day one.
The problems came when CK went on The Opie and Anthony Show, and the O'Reilly Factor and identified JV by name - big mistake. If you are going to do that, then you had better have your shit together. Otherwise, our legal system has a tendency to bite you in the ass. In this case, CK's shit was a mess and it's actually easy to see how a jury might arrive at the decision when you review the witness testimony.
Now, you may not like how a SEAL widow got caught up in the law suit. At first glance it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. However, others have pointed out that she has her own credibility issues by marketing the book as a charity effort to fallen warriors while keeping 98% of the profits.
If you ask me, all of the players in this story are vultures. But, I'm certainly not going to hero worship a guy or have pity on his widow when they both show a propensity to play loose with the facts to make a buck.
This. Actually all of Sensei's posts in this thread (and a few of you other guys) have been spot on. Thank you Sir.
The jury made an objective decision without all the hype and idol worship that surrounds CK. If you don't think the reputation of JV were damaged, read the first two pages of this thread again. $1.8m is nothing. And I absolutely believe that JV (while obviously a nut and a little on the eccentric side) has suffered loss of prospective employment over CKs lie. That's all that matters, not how bad ass CK tells you he was.
When Marcus Luttrell and Brandon Webb are taking your side, you are probably wrong. And Taya is going to make a shitload more money off the donations and proceeds from various retailers running their "look, we love the Texan SEAL" sales. The guys with integrity who died selflessly in combat with the enemy, who never wrote a book of their fictitious heroism, yeah their wives aren't getting a cent. Way to go fellas.
.......The guys with integrity who died selflessly in combat with the enemy, who never wrote a book of their fictitious heroism, yeah their wives aren't getting a cent. Way to go fellas.
This is the saddest part about the whole ordeal.
This. Actually all of Sensei's posts in this thread (and a few of you other guys) have been spot on. Thank you Sir.
The jury made an objective decision without all the hype and idol worship that surrounds CK. If you don't think the reputation of JV were damaged, read the first two pages of this thread again. $1.8m is nothing. And I absolutely believe that JV (while obviously a nut and a little on the eccentric side) has suffered loss of prospective employment over CKs lie. That's all that matters, not how bad ass CK tells you he was.
When Marcus Luttrell and Brandon Webb are taking your side, you are probably wrong. And Taya is going to make a shitload more money off the donations and proceeds from various retailers running their "look, we love the Texan SEAL" sales. The guys with integrity who died selflessly in combat with the enemy, who never wrote a book of their fictitious heroism, yeah their wives aren't getting a cent. Way to go fellas.
Legit posts.
which the public seem to take as factual, ....... But nobody cares about those, only when a Texan and SEAL (the recipe for a hero no matter what he does) are accused does it become so outrageous.
You need to give us 'public' credit for reasoning the outrageous from the factual. We are either doing one or the other. The only people claiming to 'know the truth' are also the one's that say they are insiders. ... and they are telling two different tales. So I'm pretty sure the average public realizes something is amiss and that the truth may never be known.
That is the only thing outrageous in the matter, that the best of the best can't seem to get their story straight among themselves. As to it being front page news, well that's obvious since 9/11... everything has revolved around the Military and has actually evolved to local Militia ... but you are right it all boils down to truth and integrity... even among two neighbors prepping together. I honestly believe that is the crux of the matter among most of the 'public'. The fact that members of a group held in such esteem and the face of integrity have fallen into this ordeal.
My public sideline theory on this, the lies, accusations, and all that aside, is that these guys need to win battles and this is simply a manner in which they can still do so, being off the true battlefield. JV could not possibly have won what he said he wanted. Which was basically respect. He can't win a 'lost job' back and he can't win respect back just because a jury wrote him a check. .. and I don't know any prospective employer that won't think,, what if things don't go his way? Will he sue us too?
And I absolutely believe that JV (while obviously a nut and a little on the eccentric side) has suffered loss of prospective employment over CKs lie.
So you think that someone capable of hiring and paying JV is going to say to themselves.. well he's a nut, he's boisterous, you never know what he might say, he's eccentric..... but that's ok ... oh what a minute.. he may or may not have said something derogatory about SEAL members and got in a fight over it... nope he's out, call Bruce Willis.
Seems a bit of a stretch to me.
It's a good thing they are good at their jobs in the dark because this small group( in this ordeal, not the SEAL teams as a whole ) is looking a bit funky in the light.
I totally agree with you on one thing though. Liars are strange birds and the one's that get used to lying are even stranger.
tb-av,
I give a small portion of the public credit at being able to distinguish some nonsense from truth. But there are so many people who buy into these fantastical lies that we often don't hear about them until they reach public figure status, and by then they have enough of a following that they still swear by their lies. They hired what, two separate posers for that Dual Survivor show? There was that AF who claimed in a news interview to have killed like 2k enemy...from a trailer in Nevada. I could go on for a while, point is there are plenty who will believe ridiculous claims because they want to believe them.
However, the most dangerous liars are those whose earned credibility is used to boost small changes. They're the smart ones who use 80/20 as a truth/lie ratio, and the majority of their story checks out. Just like ML and CK, they're both established enough that most people are afraid to question their stories, even when others with experience call them out. You can't raise the BS flag on a guy who was the only survivor in an ambush, and he knows that. You cant raise the BS flag on the only guy who was taking shots from his hide, and he knows that. Those gray areas are where they fill in the story with their own ego-stroking lies. But I digress.
As for JV, he was a whackadoo before this but he was still an accomplished public figure. He had the ability to get viewers because he was a fine mix of interesting and train wreck. But now? Nobody is going to hire him. He was declared guilty in the court of public opinion and no network is going to risk it. He's also in the last leg of his relevance in the public eye and the last thing he'll be remembered for is a lie that the editor/publisher and Taya both refuse to change. If it were me, I would keep pushing the issue and raise some awareness about the character of TK...maybe JV tried but we were all too busy with our lynch mob rabble to hear him.
So I'm pretty sure the average public realizes something is amiss and that the truth may never be known.
I think the average everyday person has no idea who Chris Kyle is and they don't give a shit about it either way. They're more worried about paying their bills, getting the kids to school and getting to work on time. No offense meant towards you.
Kyle came out with a book and became semi-famous. He was back in the spotlight when a couple dudes in Boston were spotted wearing a Craft hat. Outside of that, the gun dork community, and some military folks, not too many people know who he was unless they caught a blurb on the news.
I think the average everyday person has no idea who Chris Kyle is and they don't give a shit about it either way.
Oh yeah, I agree... the public subset I suppose.
This trend of cashing in on wartime service will continue as long as people are willing pay. It takes a "special" person to want their exploits ghostwritten in an autobiography. It takes an even more "special" person to believe that this drivel is an accurate portrayal of history. And finally, the most special of all, the "specialest" if you will, are people who think that achieving professional success in the military is synonymous with honesty. If the latter were true, we would not have these high profile cases of generals screwing reporters and their female staff officers.
Moose-Knuckle
08-07-14, 16:06
This trend of cashing in on wartime service will continue as long as people are willing pay. It takes a "special" person to want their exploits ghostwritten in an autobiography. It takes an even more "special" person to believe that this drivel is an accurate portrayal of history. And finally, the most special of all, the "specialest" if you will, are people who think that achieving professional success in the military is synonymous with honesty. If the latter were true, we would not have these high profile cases of generals screwing reporters and their female staff officers.
A friend of mine is retired from active duty as an 18 Echo, during some of our meetings he would go into his time fighting Mr. Reagan's dirty little wars in Central America and the nature walks he use to take behind the Iron Curtain in E Europe. I've told him he should sit down and write a book as he has his PhD in finance and is one of the most articulate men I know. He always declines citing that he would have to changes names, dates, and places and it would just be another work of fiction.
A friend of mine is retired from active duty as an 18 Echo, during some of our meetings he would go into his time fighting Mr. Reagan's dirty little wars in Central America and the nature walks he use to take behind the Iron Curtain in E Europe. I've told him he should sit down and write a book as he has his PhD in finance and is one of the most articulate men I know. He always declines citing that he would have to changes names, dates, and places and it would just be another work of fiction.
If someone wants to tell a story of a particularly notable military event, they consult a vetted journalist like Mark Bowden, or an actual historian like Rick Atkinson. These guys do countless hours of real research before publishing a book.
Think of it this way, had Bowden, Atkinson, or the late Stephen Ambrose written the book about Operation Red Wings, most socially aware Americans would know who Michael Murphy is, and the lead actor would have played his character in the follow-on movie.
Instead, we have guys like CK, ML, and BW who are using ghostwriters to reshape the perception around events. Predictably, the stories that emerge are significantly different than official accounts and award citations.
I'd only like to say I retract all prior comments regarding this topic due to the intel dump supplied by others in this thread. I'm no longer confident in the conclusions I reached based on the info I had. Thanx.
Singlestack Wonder
08-07-14, 20:22
Rest in peace Chris. No matter which side one is on in this thread, Chris served with honor and put many bad guys down.
This trend of cashing in on wartime service....................is something that silent professionals find distasteful.
You do your job and look out for the guy to the left of you and the guy to the right of you. You return home and never speak of what you saw or experienced. You don't write a book, a screen play or a movie script, you keep it to yourself and take it with you to the grave.
Magic_Salad0892
08-09-14, 02:04
I'd only like to say I retract all prior comments regarding this topic due to the intel dump supplied by others in this thread. I'm no longer confident in the conclusions I reached based on the info I had. Thanx.
This.
JV is still a douche for claiming to be a SEAL though.
This.
JV is still a douche for claiming to be a SEAL though.
I'm not even sure he did that per se. Yes, we know he's a loon on many levels, but at this point, I'm unwilling to take anything at face value as to what transpired in this event. This may be one instance where JV was thrown under the bus and due to info supplied in this thread, I'm willing to give him benefit of the doubt at this point.
I'm not even sure he did that per se. Yes, we know he's a loon on many levels, but at this point, I'm unwilling to take anything at face value as to what transpired in this event. This may be one instance where JV was thrown under the bus and due to info supplied in this thread, I'm willing to give him benefit of the doubt at this point.
People far more knowledgable than me on the history of NSW have said that JV is not being dishonest when he refers to himself as a SEAL. I've seen it explained several times and it all goes back to how graduates of BUDS were randomly assigned to UDT vs Teams during the Vietnam era. It is my understanding that the larger SEAL community recognizes the Vietnam era UDT sailors as part of their family. If any SMEs on this topic disagree or could better describe the relationship, then I'm happy to stand corrected.
Having said that, I have seen some accusations leveled at JV regarding statements about his wartime service. Apparently, he has made suggestions that he saw combat in VN which cannot be verified. Most of the quotes that I've read appear to be the typical vague crap (i.e. "It's hard to hunt animals when you've had the thrill of hunting a man" or something similar) that I hear from people who want to accentuate their record without being called-out.
Like I said, I have no allegiance to either side. I just think that the jury probably did a good job on this one. I also think that some people who testified for the defense in the case need to either get their vision checked or do some soul searching when it comes to issues of honesty.
Jesse Ventura, in his own words.
http://youtu.be/wS94kfNwye4?list=UUjeYqGx0STkSM6iWknsDl3w
The 8th Circuit overruled the district court's judgment of $1.8mil against Kyle and for Ventura regarding defamation.
"At least seven witnesses testifying on behalf of Kyle’s estate said they heard some of the inflammatory remarks attributed to Ventura and “offered generally similar accounts of what Ventura said,” according to the ruling. All of those witnesses were current or former Navy SEALs, or friends or family of SEALs. Three people testified on Ventura’s behalf and said they saw no altercation, while acknowledging they were not with him the whole evening."
"Statements that any money awarded to Ventura would be paid for by the insurance policy, rather than Kyle’s family, were “improper and prejudicial,” according to the new ruling."
“As a matter of basic evidentiary foundation, Ventura never established by direct evidence or reasonable inference that Rosenblum and Hubbard even knew about any insurance coverage or possible insurance payment,” according to the ruling. “Rosenblum and Hubbard had no personal knowledge on the topic and were not qualified to testify on the subject.”
"The court did note there are questionable details about Kyle’s account of the bar fight, and that photographs taken a day later show Ventura had no visible damage to his face. The trial essentially became “a credibility contest between Ventura, Kyle and their respective witnesses,” and Kyle was prevented from having a fair trial, the new ruling said."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/06/13/court-throws-out-1-8-million-judgment-against-american-sniper-chris-kyles-estate/?tid=hybrid_collaborative_2_na
The only people I hope benefit from this Feces Cabaret are Kyle's kids.
The only people I hope benefit from this Feces Cabaret are Kyle's kids.
Yep. Be nice if this makes the entire circus go away.
I'd send Ventura a "grow a pair and get over it" bouquet.
I'd order an injunction against Taya to stop her from pimping her husbands name for fun and profit.
I'd make sure the only thing the Kyle kids knew was "Your dad was a hero and saved lives." And I really wouldn't tell them anything different, when they are older they can look stuff up and decide for themselves.
Moose-Knuckle
06-15-16, 04:18
I'd order an injunction against Taya to stop her from pimping her husbands name for fun and profit.
Yup,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=bYtg4399vhg
Singlestack Wonder
06-15-16, 11:57
Go Tara....after all of the sacrifices you made while your husband was overseas fighting for our nation you deserve any money you can make. You are much more deserving than reality show "stars"...
+1
I don't blame Tara one bit, especially when she had this judgement hanging over her. Jesse is just a loser attention whore who won't care now that he won against Gawker.
.46caliber
06-15-16, 18:16
I'd order an injunction against Taya to stop her from pimping her husbands name for fun and profit.
I'd make sure the only thing the Kyle kids knew was "Your dad was a hero and saved lives." And I really wouldn't tell them anything different, when they are older they can look stuff up and decide for themselves.
I tend to agree with the latter, keeping the kids out of the hub bub.
I can see the initial reaction behind the first. Then I think about my wife and kids. If I was gone and had made a name, I'd certainly want my wife to use it to provide for the family I left behind. Even if it's more than they need. So long as she's not overcome with greed or doesn't let it become a crap show.
If you're going to gobble her knob, you could at least spell her name right.
Also, the Hulkster is the one who bent Gawker over a barrel.
Lessay I pulled some hardcore Buckaroo Banzai mess...and I was married to some bird and then some dude kills me.
If she whored out my name and gangster rep to sell shitty used cars I would will myself out of the darkest bowels of godless Hell just to make her stub her pinkie toe real bad on a door corner. So bad it breaks.
I'm talking Amityville Poltergeist Paranormal Activity.
Because....man..no.
I tend to agree with the latter, keeping the kids out of the hub bub.
I can see the initial reaction behind the first. Then I think about my wife and kids. If I was gone and had made a name, I'd certainly want my wife to use it to provide for the family I left behind. Even if it's more than they need. So long as she's not overcome with greed or doesn't let it become a crap show.
My comments were made in the context that Kyle was seeking a divorce and his parents were seeking custody of the children.
.46caliber
06-16-16, 07:01
My comments were made in the context that Kyle was seeking a divorce and his parents were seeking custody of the children.
That I was unaware of. Does change things a bit.
Lessay I pulled some hardcore Buckaroo Banzai mess...and I was married to some bird and then some dude kills me.
If she whored out my name and gangster rep to sell shitty used cars I would will myself out of the darkest bowels of godless Hell just to make her stub her pinkie toe real bad on a door corner. So bad it breaks.
I'm talking Amityville Poltergeist Paranormal Activity.
Because....man..no.
Since I jabbed my pinkie toe HARD on the bed post this morning, your post has me thinking who I messed over that bad that has died. I can't think of anyone.
I caught the last 3/4 of some horrible show called Chris Kyle the real story or some crap on REELS or REELZ channel...
These scum bags put together a program to paint Kyle as a racist, psycho, and liar. I couldn't fukkin believe it. Of course there were a few homo, lefty "Journalist/Bloggers" chiming in with their nonsense, but they even scared up a few weasel dick Marine Vets (nothing against Marines... they just found one or two booger brainers for the show) to help present Kyle in a poor light.
Who gets off on producing shit like this??
BuzzinSATX
01-16-17, 09:38
Sad that there is even a market for this crap! I'd guess it wasn't too hard to find someone who'd slam on Kyle. He was a hero and certainly protected and saved MANY US lives, but he was human, and as such, probably pissed some whiny clown off from time to time.
In the long run, it's just another POS liberal movie/documentary made on the premise that strength is evil. Hypocritical pansies can't even ackknowlege, let alone THANK the LEOs, Military, or others who provide the security that enables them to make this swill!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dont have Reelz but that is messed up. CK is dead and gone. Why talk mess?
I saw the program in it's entirety. If you are in an occupation the media hates and write a book, they are going to air a program that attracts viewers, those who both respect and loathe your occupation.
well most of the movie makers documentary folks are radical lefty ?
enough looser hater types in the military I am told these days sure it was easy
HEY you want to be a movie star
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-16-17, 11:52
Not to defend these wacko's, but Kyle didn't help himself out very much when he tarnished his own integrity with questionable claims: Gas Station shooting, Katrina shooting, Jesse Ventura, etc.
Not to defend these wacko's, but Kyle didn't help himself out very much when he tarnished his own integrity with questionable claims: Gas Station shooting, Katrina shooting, Jesse Ventura, etc.
While true but how many people you think in the general population know about all of those indiscretions? I saw American sniper in theaters and it was packed.
I'm guessing most people don't care and are indifferent towards his blemishes.
Not to defend these wacko's, but Kyle didn't help himself out very much when he tarnished his own integrity with questionable claims: Gas Station shooting, Katrina shooting, Jesse Ventura, etc.
They hit on those topics in the piece. I'd never heard of them and don't care one way or another. It was just astonishing that people would go to such effort to attack a man who is no longer living.
All I know is Kyle was a Navy SEAL and got a Silver Star so he did something right any and all embellishment aside.
He was murdered trying to help a wackjob so....why people want to piss on his grave vexes me. Probably a case of not being held down and beaten enough as kids.
If you want military shitbags who everyone needs to know about...go after John Stebbins or Sixta.
Remember Ewan Macgregors guy in BH D? Real funny....liked coffee..203'd that one dude...
But was/is a chomo.
Same for Sixta, had that good ol country boy accent, "Poleese dat mooostash", "Groomen Standerts"....real funny character.
But a goddamned Chomo.
So...go chump out them or other chomos.
Kyle was a human being, not a criminal, and was thrust into the public eye. He is dead now and cannot defend himself.
I was once told not to speak ill of the dead
tl;dr not enough people held down and beaten as children
Not to defend these wacko's, but Kyle didn't help himself out very much when he tarnished his own integrity with questionable claims: Gas Station shooting, Katrina shooting, Jesse Ventura, etc.
I cant say anything about Jesse Ventura or Katrina but I lived not far from Chris 5 years ago, he lived in Midlothian, I lived in Southwest Dallas and there was a lot of talk about a navy seal who killed 2 armed robbers on 67 south in Alvarado which is a super small country town 30 minutes south of Dallas, that was back in 2009 I think. They story that went around was that I navy seal who just got back from Iraq killed 2 armed men who tried to steal his truck. That happened outside of a Texaco truck stop of 67. If you were traveling south, that was the last gas station for 60 miles and they had a photo of Chris Kyle behind the register. Not saying it happened or didn't happened but the story got around fast before his book came out.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-16-17, 14:34
All I watch is football and MMA.
I'd like to see his wife beat the crap out of all this skinny jeans 'journalists'.
While true but how many people you think in the general population know about all of those indiscretions? I saw American sniper in theaters and it was packed.
I'm guessing most people don't care and are indifferent towards his blemishes.
How can you guess that people don't care about his "fishing" tales when people didn't know about them??
Didn't see the piece, but given the nature of liberal journalism I'd say they blew his "fishing" tales out of proportion relative to his good deeds.
As far as Kyle being thrown into the spotlight, nothing is further from the truth. He chose to write an autobiography and sign a movie deal. So he volunteered for the limelight. Maybe he got more than he though, but he volunteered to have people look into his life.
The fact is that Chris Kyle was a human being. He did some things right and on others he jumped on his dick, just like the rest of us. The movie made him look like a saint which just gave some folks more motivation to dig for the dick jumping parts.
Couple things Ive always wondered about the Chris Kyle stories.... Is there any proof he actually said them? Everything Ive read about the gas station shootings and Katrina shootings was like third hand info.
As far as the Ventura thing, the settlement got over ruled. From what Ive read there were several witnesses that corroborated the story. Several witnesses that said it didn't happen. And just like every bar fight ive ever been to the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.
Couple things Ive always wondered about the Chris Kyle stories.... Is there any proof he actually said them? Everything Ive read about the gas station shootings and Katrina shootings was like third hand info.
As far as the Ventura thing, the settlement got over ruled. From what Ive read there were several witnesses that corroborated the story. Several witnesses that said it didn't happen. And just like every bar fight ive ever been to the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.
The gas station story origionates from an interview with Michael Mooney in 2010 (D Magazine), and actually made it into one of Marcus Luttrell's books, "Service, A Navy Seal At War." Luttrell says that it happened because Chris told him that it happened. The Katrina story was witnessed by a several reporters interviewing him. I'm not sure if that rises to proof, but I certainly see no evidence that he tried to dispel the stories.
As for the Ventura case, I was surprised that a douche like Jesse would prevail over the very sympathetic wife of a deceased hero. Then, I read some of the testimony and watched Kyle's taped deposition. It wasn't pretty. Kyle contradicted himself multiple times and his witnesses (at least one was hammered) gave vastly differing stories ranging from a brawl outside to a single punch inside. On the other hand, Ventura's witnesses all gave identical stories of a pleasant evening.
I have no idea how much of the mystique surrounding Kyle is true or made up BS. At the very least, his story strikes as one of a man that faced a lot of demons once he returned from his service and not all were combat related.
The gas station story origionates from an interview with Michael Mooney in 2010 (D Magazine), and actually made it into one of Marcus Luttrell's books, "Service, A Navy Seal At War." Luttrell says that it happened because Chris told him that it happened. The Katrina story was witnessed by a several reporters interviewing him. I'm not sure if that rises to proof, but I certainly see no evidence that he tried to dispel the stories.
As for the Ventura case, I was surprised that a douche like Jesse would prevail over the very sympathetic wife of a deceased hero. Then, I read some of the testimony and watched Kyle's taped deposition. It wasn't pretty. Kyle contradicted himself multiple times and his witnesses (at least one was hammered) gave vastly differing stories ranging from a brawl outside to a single punch inside. On the other hand, Ventura's witnesses all gave identical stories of a pleasant evening.
I have no idea how much of the mystique surrounding Kyle is true or made up BS. At the very least, his story strikes as one of a man that faced a lot of demons once he returned from his service and not all were combat related.
Okay. The only report I had read from the Katrina incident was published after his death and the reporter didnt have any recordings of the interview. Made me very suspicious.
Edit: I read the other day that the 1.8 million dollar settlement was over turned.
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