Remembering Master Bruce Lee, 41 Years...

[SteyrAUG]

November 27, 1940 – July 20, 1973

Your absence is noticeable and felt all these years later.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/q85/s720x720/10487396_681193811961433_4248920701667228026_n.jpg?oh=01a17cbc6e632b87a99f2d59eeaa4140&oe=5448649D&__gda__=1413674544_9a4c54ccf362931179e3aa4956f07178

Bruce and Brandon Lee circa 1968.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/969961_556389921070885_514692721_n.jpg?oh=38a6de39cd439909c2b9c859bbdacf57&oe=544502A3&__gda__=1414254415_6e523399867848de7ba44453de4680ea

Lee's widow had originally reserved the plot next to Bruce for herself, sadly it became the resting place of their son Brandon who also departed far too soon.

[Failure2Stop]

Agreed.

[Bolt_Overide]

I wonder what sort of effect he would have had on cinema, martial arts, and combatives if he had not been taken so soon.

[Chameleox]

Gone too soon.

"The Tao of Jeet Kune Do" is still a very relevant resource for combatives students and shooters.

That photo of Lee with Brandon is great; last week, I put my old gloves on my son and daughter for the first time (big smiles immediately). I suspect that the feeling I had was the same as what Bruce must have been feeling in that picture.

Rest in Peace.

[Campbell]

A true innovator...just imagine what he would have brought to the table over a normal life span. Sad indeed.

[SeriousStudent]

.....

"The Tao of Jeet Kune Do" is still a very relevant resource for combatives students and shooters.

.......

Much agree, a copy belongs on the bookshelf.

My respects to the Lee family.

[6933]

I have much respect for Bruce Lee. He is the reason I became involved in martial arts.

Would have loved to see him match up with Mitsuyo Maeda, Carlos Gracie, or Helio Gracie when each was in their prime.

After the fight, I bet there would have been a lot of camaraderie and discussion of technique. Oh, to be a fly on the wall.

[SteyrAUG]

I have much respect for Bruce Lee. He is the reason I became involved in martial arts.


To think there are probably 50 decades of martial artists who would say the same. Some of my teachers got involved because of the Green Hornet TV show in 1966. "Enter the Dragon" (1973) is probably responsible for more martial journeys than any other single influence.

The film is still such a pleasure to watch. No "wire work" as was sometimes common in Hong Kong productions of the time. No camera speed tricks which were very common at the time. And thank god no CGI because it didn't exist.

Just one man showing the possibilities of what can actually be done. Even if the rest of us never quite attained that level of ability despite our best efforts. The speed, timing and validity of Lee's technique in the scene with Bob Wall (who commented that it was more application than choreography and that he didn't have to fake many reactions to strikes) has yet to be surpassed IMO.

[Cincinnatus]

I like the scene in Return of the Dragon where he and Norris fight as well or better than the Bob Wall scene.

[SteyrAUG]

I like the scene in Return of the Dragon where he and Norris fight as well or better than the Bob Wall scene.

Really like it, and we have to remember he was able to build on that for the Enter the Dragon scene, but I'd still rank that one third behind the Bruce Lee / Dan Inosanto scene from "Game of Death." But certainly at the time Return of the Dragon (aka "Way of the Dragon") was released, the Lee / Norris fights scene was probably the best thing on film at the time.

That was the first film where Lee had almost total creative control as both writer and director as well as choreographer and co producer and it really shows. It was a dramatic leap from his two previous films which were somewhat hampered by the writing and direction of Lo Wei.

[Denali]

I have always been amazed by how they turned him down for the lead in the television series "Kung Fu" because he was an Asian...

[SteyrAUG]

I have always been amazed by how they turned him down for the lead in the television series "Kung Fu" because he was an Asian...

Especially considering it was basically his idea to the point they gave him a writing credit after the fact.

[Denali]

Especially considering it was basically his idea to the point they gave him a writing credit after the fact.
Really it was just astonishing, turning down Lee for some douche bag who would eventually turn up dead in a hotel room after trying to achieve a deviant orgasm, while Lee would exit the planet as one of the most iconic humans of the 20th century, probably as well known as any religious figure anywhere on earth, ever, absolutely worshiped by adolescent males of virtually every possible skin color, as a god....Go figure...

[Sam]

Really it was just astonishing, turning down Lee for some douche bag who would eventually turn up dead in a hotel room after trying to achieve a deviant orgasm, while Lee would exit the planet as one of the most iconic humans of the 20th century, probably as well known as any religious figure anywhere on earth, ever, absolutely worshiped by adolescent males of virtually every possible skin color, as a god....Go figure...


Couldn't agree more. I was barely 11 when he died. My parents and I were flying into Hong Kong on a trip the same day that his body was flown out of the same airport to his final resting place in Seattle. We didn't know it until afterward.

[SteyrAUG]

Really it was just astonishing, turning down Lee for some douche bag who would eventually turn up dead in a hotel room after trying to achieve a deviant orgasm, while Lee would exit the planet as one of the most iconic humans of the 20th century, probably as well known as any religious figure anywhere on earth, ever, absolutely worshiped by adolescent males of virtually every possible skin color, as a god....Go figure...


Yep, huge missed opportunity. But if he got the show he might never have gone to Hong Kong and done movies. Also despite the stories of "racist Hollywood" it wasn't the fact that he was Asian that was the main consideration, Lee had a very thick accent and they were concerned middle America wouldn't understand him.

If you watch the film "Marlowe" (1969) starring James Garner where Lee played the heavy for a gangster, his English is almost impeccable and according to most sources he worked very hard with an English coach on his accent. This is because he was trying to sell himself to Hollywood and prove he could handle the lines.

But when he sat down to discuss "Kung Fu" with Warner Bros. some of the old timers had some trouble understanding him. This is one of the reasons he had so few actual lines in the film "Enter the Dragon" and when he does speak, his accent isn't nearly as coached as it was for "Marlowe", especially lines like "Now why doesn't somebody pull out a .45 and BANG...settle it?" Another big reason of course is fewer lines let's Lee express himself physically, where he is the most effective, and gave him broader international appeal and fewer dubbed lines for international distribution.

Another indicator that racism didn't play a strong role in the decision to pass Lee over for the "Kung Fu" series is that it was Warner Bros. who was the primary producer and distributor of the film "Enter the Dragon" (1973) having learned their lesson the hard way when they missed the boat the first time around. They were keenly aware that they missed out on a hot property after "Way of the Dragon" (1972) and they went to Hong Kong looking to sign a deal. So despite the popular opinion that a racist Hollywood picked a white legacy actor with dance skills (David Carradine was the son of John Carradine) over the Chinese guy isn't quite what happened.

Now certainly, in the 1960s and especially in Hollywood it's almost guaranteed that Lee encountered some manner of racism on a regular basis and it probably was one of the factors that made it difficult for him to find work despite the efforts of people like Stirling Silliphant writing screenplays specifically for him and guys like Ed Parker getting him work as martial arts adviser on films from The Green Berets" (1968) to "The Wrecking Crew" (1969).

John Wayne's "The Green Berets" actually had quite a bit of talent that most people don't know about.

Full Cast and Crew for The Green Berets:

Other crew

George Coleman .... transportation coordinator
Wayne Fitzgerald .... title designer
Bruce Lee .... martial arts choreographer
Joe Lewis .... martial arts performer
Chuck Norris .... martial arts performer
Eddie Parker .... martial arts performer
Crayton Smith .... script supervisor
Lee Sollenberger .... costumer
Mike Stone .... martial arts performer
Mervyn LeRoy .... studio advisor (uncredited)

[Cincinnatus]

I didn't know Lewis was in Green Berets. I trained with him some back in the 90s!
I also did not know Lee worked on the film.

[SteyrAUG]

I didn't know Lewis was in Green Berets. I trained with him some back in the 90s!
I also did not know Lee worked on the film.


Yep, everyone was trying to keep Lee working in Hollywood so they could keep working with, training with and learning from Lee. And if Lee got something steady and there was an opening for a few of the guys...even better.

[tb-av]

Not exactly a fight scene but I always thought this was pretty cool...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SncapPrTusA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SncapPrTusA

[SteyrAUG]

Not exactly a fight scene but I always thought this was pretty cool...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SncapPrTusA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SncapPrTusA

You know that isn't really Bruce Lee and is completely CGI like "Forrest Gump" right?

[tb-av]

Oh jeeze ok, I feel pretty stupid now... are the matches fake too.... I thought the ping pong looked a bit too much.... but the matches I thought looked possible. I can remember seeing this quite some time ago I thought. I just happened to see it again.

So that's all fake... damn... I wondered why it had a Nokia phone at the end.... oh well... I've been stupid before and I'm sure it will happen again.... that's the only good thing about getting old.. the bouts of intense stupidity don't seem to bother you as much.

[SteyrAUG]

Oh jeeze ok, I feel pretty stupid now... are the matches fake too.... I thought the ping pong looked a bit too much.... but the matches I thought looked possible. I can remember seeing this quite some time ago I thought. I just happened to see it again.

So that's all fake... damn... I wondered why it had a Nokia phone at the end.... oh well... I've been stupid before and I'm sure it will happen again.... that's the only good thing about getting old.. the bouts of intense stupidity don't seem to bother you as much.

Yeah, it's a promotion for Nokia. Decent CGI but all fake. I wouldn't lose any sleep over being duped. And except for being on the boxing team at St. Francis Xavier and some rooftop "rumbles" during his Hong Kong gang member days, Bruce Lee never competed at all in any matches or martial arts competitions. His involvement in Ed Parkers Long Beach International was demonstrations of Kung Fu only, despite what some films about Lee suggest.

He did have more than a few challenge matches, which were basically fights, with a few notable martial arts teachers and challengers who found their way to movie sets, but no footage of any of those events is known to exist.

[KalashniKEV]

...except for being on the boxing team at St. Francis Xavier and some rooftop "rumbles" during his Hong Kong gang member days, Bruce Lee never competed at all in any matches or martial arts competitions.

I was going to point that out, but I didn't want to rain on the parade.

Bruce Lee was awesome, but he has more in common with Jackie Chan than he does with Helio Gracie, who tested his skills against a wide variety of styles under all kinds of different rules, in what were basically open weight, NHB, bone breaking competitions.

He did make a relevant contribution to combat sports though, because JKD is a fusion style, like today's "MMA Style."

[SteyrAUG]

I was going to point that out, but I didn't want to rain on the parade.

Bruce Lee was awesome, but he has more in common with Jackie Chan than he does with Helio Gracie, who tested his skills against a wide variety of styles under all kinds of different rules, in what were basically open weight, NHB, bone breaking competitions.

He did make a relevant contribution to combat sports though, because JKD is a fusion style, like today's "MMA Style."

For a little context, we must remember that competitions at the time were hardly full contact and often had severely limiting rules. Also with the exception of a few "open" competitions, most tournaments were restricted to specific styles. Even the All Japan Open was heavily biased against non Japanese systems when it came to scoring. There was no K1, Sabaki challenge or UFC.

There just wasn't an environment for Lee to pit his methods against other styles in a realistic way and he was in fact pioneering things like full contact training methods. He did get into some actual / factual real fights with martial artists who came calling looking to make a name for themselves so I think that proves a lot more than winning in the AAU tournament circuit that existed in the late 60s.

I don't want to take anything away from guys like Norris, Lewis, Wall or Mullins but I think if Lee did enter the circuit he would have regularly destroyed them. Unlike Chan, who came up training for the Chinese opera and went directly into film, Lee had a more fighting oriented foundation and background.

[Failure2Stop]

MMA is basically JKD's validation.

[SteyrAUG]

MMA is basically JKD's validation.

There is some merit to that notion.

[Denali]

Yep, huge missed opportunity.

Now certainly, in the 1960s and especially in Hollywood it's almost guaranteed that Lee encountered some manner of racism on a regular basis and it probably was one of the factors that made it difficult for him to find work

I didn't necessarily mean that it was entirely a racist response, just that turning down Bruce Lee for David Carradine was in and of itself a huge fail. Of course as you have correctly noted, all of this was just before Lee had starred in his first martial arts films...There are other interpretations of the Carradine/Lee casting of the series "Kung Fu" revolving around their contrasting demeanor's, where as Carradine was thought to be more cerebral appearing, as opposed to Lee's high octane energy.

Oh well, only thing I can say for certain is that if I myself had been in charge of casting the part, the door wouldn't have hit Carradine's back side fast, or hard enough....

[SteyrAUG]

I didn't necessarily mean that it was entirely a racist response, just that turning down Bruce Lee for David Carradine was in and of itself a huge fail. Of course as you have correctly noted, all of this was just before Lee had starred in his first martial arts films...There are other interpretations of the Carradine/Lee casting of the series "Kung Fu" revolving around their contrasting demeanor's, where as Carradine was thought to be more cerebral appearing, as opposed to Lee's high octane energy.

Oh well, only thing I can say for certain is that if I myself had been in charge of casting the part, the door wouldn't have hit Carradine's back side fast, or hard enough....

I was more addressing a common misconception than I was addressing your post specifically. But I agree, "Kung Fu" starring Bruce Lee could have been amazing.