Reloading Home defense .45acp

[Pappabear]

Markm loaded some SIERRA Hollow points for our 45's. We tested a load today and it shot well. How many of you reloaders , do your own HD pistol ammo?

[williejc]

I no longer use my reloads for defense purposes. The only reason is that Winchester, Remington, Federal, and Black Hills do a better job than I can. Also factory canister powders used in premium ammo most likely will produce rounds with less muzzle flash and higher velocity compared to ammo reloaded with off the shelf powder. Your reloads can reach the same velocity as hot factory ammo but usually not with acceptable pressure levels.

In no way am I saying that a competent and skilled reloader can't do it right. Certain variables, though, can wreck the train. One is insufficient case neck tension which could cause the bullet to set back in the case. Another would be light primer strikes caused by a primer not being seated fully. A third might be a squib load with obvious consequences. Also, if the hand loader buys new brass for this purpose, any cost savings have evaporated.

Fear of a prosecutor's using my ammo choice against me is not a concern in my locale.

[markm]

I no longer use my reloads for defense purposes. The only reason is that Winchester, Remington, Federal, and Black Hills do a better job than I can. Also factory canister powders used in premium ammo most likely will produce rounds with less muzzle flash and higher velocity compared to ammo reloaded with off the shelf powder. Your reloads can reach the same velocity as hot factory ammo but usually not with acceptable pressure levels.

In no way am I saying that a competent and skilled reloader can't do it right. Certain variables, though, can wreck the train. One is insufficient case neck tension which could cause the bullet to set back in the case. Another would be light primer strikes caused by a primer not being seated fully. A third might be a squib load with obvious consequences. Also, if the hand loader buys new brass for this purpose, any cost savings have evaporated.

Fear of a prosecutor's using my ammo choice against me is not a concern in my locale.

Not to be a dick, but ALL ridiculous arguments. Take this in the context that I use Gold Dots for Home defense.... so I'm not defending anything from a personal perspective. WIN has more recall's than General Motors for fukk's sake. And NONE of the manufacturers you listed can make ammo better than a hand loader. (federal is close with Federal GMM line, however)

People think that the manufacturers have this magical secret powder stash that handloaders simply can't get. NONSENSE. They load ammo to the lots they have which aren't canister grade, etc. But if you read up on premium ammos loaded by manufacturer for the Mil, etc. They're often using powders that anyone can buy. IMR 4064, and R15 for example.

As far as high primers, squibs, and bullet set back. I've seen those MUCH more often in factory loads. I've seen 2 duds from federal Premium over the years, 2 blown primers from Rem ammo, set backs were a common report on rem rifle ammo a while back, and Bullet set back on pistol ammo isn't unique to factory or hand loads. A shitty gun will push a bullet back regardless.

To your point, a poor loader is worse off by making his own ammo. But factory ammo is much less trustworthy to me than hand loads. When you handload, you can inspect every primer for damage, feel every primer seat to proper depth with sufficient tension, watch every powder charge, feel every bullet's neck tension, etc. You don't get this with factory ammo. You have to hope whomever was on the line that day had her head in the game.

[williejc]

Markm, you make good points, and I also have seen defective factory rounds. Statistically, the big factory's might produce millions of rounds within a certain load's run and have zero recalls. The guy at his bench won't have this success rate. Having reloaded a ton of pistol ammo since 1969 with 99% produced one at a time on the old Lyman, Pacific, or RCBS single stage presses, I know how to make good ammo--like you. We are probably in the 99th percentile of all reloaders judged on skill. I would be more than happy to shoot your reloads in my guns even though I've never met you. You can ship me a couple thousand anytime, and I'll be grateful. That said, my advice to most is use selected factory ammo for defense and don't shoot other people's reloads unless they're mine or Markm's. ;)

[darr3239]

Lots of info. out there on the legal negatives of using personally made ammo in defensive situations. Most of the issues were meaningless, and shouldn't have mattered one little bit in the real world. But, with a legal system (and juries) like ours, folks have been screwed when there would have been no issue at all if they had just stuck with factory made ammo.

[Pappabear]

I ordered some napalm to put in the cases. I was looking for a second detonation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPXVGQnJm0w

[jstone]

I reload one pistol round for sd. When I can get vv3n38 I will load 147 xtps. Other than that it is only due to lack of good sd bullets available as components. Gold dots, and barnes are the only top shelf sd bullet available new.

For what gold dot, and xpb's cost last time I checked the savings was not that much for how many sd rounds I shoot. I wont pay the dollar a round price you see on some sd pistol rounds. Last time I bought hst it was .50 cents per round before shipping. It would cost me around 30-40 cents per round to load gold dots or xpb plus my time.

I have found hst as pulls, but I keep enough factory sd loads for the pistol. If I could regularly find gold dots in the weights I like, and 15-20 cents per bullet I would have no problem using my reloads.

Rifle is a different story. The plethora of great bullets available as components is what makes the difference for me. If I could buy hst or ranger t bullets as a component I would probably load my handgun sd ammo.

You hear people bring up the bs about people going to jail for using reloads, but they can never produce documentation. Being in California my rifle would more than likely be a last choice for sd, but if I do it will be a handloaded 62 trophy bonded bear claw a little shy of 3000fps.

For people thinking that factory ammo uses powders not available to us its not exactly true. The canister grade powders we get are blended to keep the difference between lots minimal. The factories are using the same powders they just are not canister grade. Which means the lots can have large variations, and a new load must be worked up for each lot. If I have a couple one pound canisters with different lot numbers I will mix them and create my own lot. That way I dont have to work up a different load 5 times. The man who taught me to reload showed me this, and I have heard of many people doing this so please no lectures on safety. Its been working for 17 years.

[MorphCross]

Only reason I use factory loads for personal/home defense is because if I have to shoot someone, I can hand over the box to the police so the County/State Ballistic Criminologist can test and confirm without question that the bullet that was used to put Pete D. Hominvader in the a morgue was the one I stated it was. Anything that gives a clear picture that I was within my rights, beyond ya know the whole Castle Doctrine thing, to the county/city prosecutor.

[black22rifle]

Can someone point out a case where someone was worst off in court because they used a handload to shoot someone? As far as I know self defense is self defense. Shooting someone with a factory load vs a reload doesn't change the fact they kicked down your door, broke in, tried to rob you, etc. Sounds like the story of the Boogie man prosecutor.

I only carry factory JHPs because I can never find Gold dots to make my own or even good grade powder locally.

[darr3239]

Can someone point out a case where someone was worst off in court because they used a handload to shoot someone? As far as I know self defense is self defense. Shooting someone with a factory load vs a reload doesn't change the fact they kicked down your door, broke in, tried to rob you, etc. Sounds like the story of the Boogie man prosecutor.

Here's a link for several cases. No one is saying you won't win in the end, or that it will definitely come up as an issue in court every single time. But what if it does? How much money do you have to spend on a better lawyer and expert witnesses? Why allow potential loose ends to exist for someone to spotlight? Why give a jury, ignorant on the issues, the opportunity to be led by the guy with the nicest smile? Some of us thought two recent President's would have never been elected for a second term.

Come to think of it, modifying your trigger for a lighter pull, on a carry gun, is another stick of dynamite waiting to go off in court.

http://www.gunforums.net/forums/general-gun-talk/5514-cases-where-handloads-caused-problems-court-mas-ayoob.html

[MorphCross]

I think Home defense is a much more clear cut area in this regard. Using a firearm for personal defense when you are out and about in public and especially in states that have no "Stand Your Ground" you really don't want anything to be called into question. Ergo I use for HD what I use for CCW defense as I'm most well versed with my CCW pistol.

[jstone]

In the link with the cases, it goes back 40+ years 3 case one conviction after multiple prosecutions. That had extenuating circumstances. If a prosecutor is over zealous they could use your use of law enforcement ammo against you as well. Everything can be twisted to make it look like you are a deranged killer.

I can hear the prosecution saying this man went out and bought ammunition specifically labeled for law enforcement, because it is known to be the deadliest ammunition available. Now we all know that line is bull shit and easily countered. It is just an example of what could happen. If a prosecutor wants to get you for your ammunition selection they will try to regardless of the ammunition type.
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I trust my ammo that I put together far more than I trust factory. Have I had some malfunctions? Yes, but I was expecting them. I pushed some brass a little farther than I should, and I knew it. I ended up with a couple case head separations. Which is no big deal, remove the front piece and keep on shooting. I have had far more malfunctions with factory ammo. I wont even purchase Winchester ammo anymore. Like markm said the amount of recalls lately is rediculous, and the ranger t used to be one of my favorite rounds. I have moved away from ranger t to hst, and gold dot. I still have some ranger t but it is a couple years old.

Also if you look around the forum where that link was posted you will see retardation on a level you have never seen before. It will make your head hurt.

[Blue Thunder]

I have 250 rounds of reloaded 45ACP ammo in new Starline Brass with 185GR Barnes all copper HP's and loaded to +P using Unique. The 50 samples I shot developing the load all shot very accurately in both my 1911 and G-21. They are set aside for a real stormy time. If that time comes, the Prosecutor will be the least of my worries.

[jstone]

What dies did you use to load them? Im wondering, because my rcbs dies say you need to buy a seating stem for gold dots or the barnes hollow points. You need to buy a stem for each weight of bullet you use. This is another reason I have not tried loading any gold dots or xpbs. Did you use one of the stems that came with your dies?

[Blue Thunder]

I used a plain old 20 year old Dillon SDB. Only thing that changed was depth of seating die cause the Barnes bool it is longer than a lead and copper boolit. Also did seating carefully and no marks on boolit. Looks like a factory boolit.

[jstone]

Thanks for the info.