View Full Version : Glock model 23 modifications
Hello. I'm new to this forum but have gleaned advice from the posts for a while. I'm also new to modifying firearms, so please have patience with me if some of my ideas seem unnecessary or wacky. That is in fact why I'm posting the ideas I've been throwing around inside my head. To that end, I think you need to understand a little about me. I have an overall knowledge of how the firearm functions, but I do not understand the inner workings very well. Also, I am working towards a degree in Mechanical Engineering, so concepts like stress, forces, failure all make sense to me. Also, I have noticed that posts like this are responded to with requests regarding the use of the firearm. This firearm is my SHTF combat pistol. That's it. I already own a carry gun, a Taurus M85UL in .38 special that serves me well for concealed carry. So, I have a few questions regarding the modifications I want to make.
1. Will any of the modifications work against themselves?
2. Are any of them unnecessary and why?
3. Are there any I'm not thinking of that I should be doing considering the ones I want to make?
So, now that I've talked ya'lls ears off, here's what I'm planning. I'm starting with a completely stock Glock model 23 gen 3 with night sights front and back.
I want to install the following:
-.40 Cal Carver/KKM 3 or 4 port Compensator (I'm not sure what the functional difference would be between the 3 and 4 port compensator, however, I do know the overall effect that a compensator is supposed to have)
http://w.iwebcenters.com/bbenterprise2/ecommerce/comps-barrels-glock-xdm-s-w-m-p/glock/glock-compensators/40-cal-comp-barrel-combo-s/gen-3-4-40-cal-carver-kkm-4-port-comp-barrel.cfm
-Extended slide release
-Vickers extended magazine release
-Grip force Adapter
-Zev Tech Titanium Pin Kit
http://www.glockworx.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=156035&CAT=3688
-Titanium Ejector
http://www.glockworx.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=156499&CAT=3688
-Zev Tech Standard Trigger Kit (pretty sure I want to go with just the Trigger and Trigger bar kit, the rest sounds unnecessary)
http://www.glockworx.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=793696&CAT=3688
-Zev Tech V4 Race connector
http://www.glockworx.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=155934&CAT=3688
-Zev Tech Competition Spring Kit
http://www.glockworx.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=156033
Thank you so much for ya'lls input and help in this matter. I appreciate any time you guys can give me on this issue.
-Arthur
Guns-up.50
08-02-14, 20:33
Sounds like a competition gun? Steel sights, vickers controls if you need them, and a 4.5# ghost connector polish it,
thats all ya need, my man
10-coil mag springs
High visibility sights of some sort
Maybe an extended mag or slide stop levers if you can't reach the standard
Lots of 180gr JHP ammo from the GTG list, training ammo to complement
Training
Pass on everything else.
MSparks909
08-03-14, 00:38
10-coil mag springs
High visibility sights of some sort
Maybe an extended mag or slide stop levers if you can't reach the standard
Lots of 180gr JHP ammo from the GTG list, training ammo to complement
Training
Pass on everything else.
Fully agree with this advice. The Zev stuff is unnecessary. Throw in a factory Glock "-" connector and run several thousand rounds through it. I would not go with a compensator if this is your SHTF/EOTWAWKI gun. How will you holster it with a compensator hanging off the end?
If the grip is uncomfortable for you, add the Grip Force. As said above, only add the extended slide and magazine releases if you're having trouble reaching/using them currently. Stuff like the titanium pins and titanium ejector is "fluffy" stuff and un-needed on a "combat" handgun.
Use the money you were going to dump into the gun and put it towards ammunition. Also, grab several spare recoil springs. Replace them every 2-3K rounds if your 23 is a Gen3 or earlier and every 3-4K if it's a Gen4.
One more thing...sell the Taurus, buy a spare G23 and dedicate one to carry/use for HD and dedicate one as a training/class/competition gun.
I would shoot it a lot before I would make any mods. For a shtf weapon, keeping it as close to stock will keep it very reliable.
I'm with above, training > mods. Minus connector and polish the trigger, maybe extended stuff if you have to shift grip to reach, and night sights. Mags, good ammo in mags ready to go.
If this...
I have an overall knowledge of how the firearm functions, but I do not understand the inner workings very well.
Why all this?
I want to install the following:
-.40 Cal Carver/KKM 3 or 4 port Compensator (I'm not sure what the functional difference would be between the 3 and 4 port compensator, however, I do know the overall effect that a compensator is supposed to have)
http://w.iwebcenters.com/bbenterprise2/ecommerce/comps-barrels-glock-xdm-s-w-m-p/glock/glock-compensators/40-cal-comp-barrel-combo-s/gen-3-4-40-cal-carver-kkm-4-port-comp-barrel.cfm
-Extended slide release
-Vickers extended magazine release
-Grip force Adapter
-Zev Tech Titanium Pin Kit
http://www.glockworx.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=156035&CAT=3688
-Titanium Ejector
http://www.glockworx.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=156499&CAT=3688
-Zev Tech Standard Trigger Kit (pretty sure I want to go with just the Trigger and Trigger bar kit, the rest sounds unnecessary)
http://www.glockworx.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=793696&CAT=3688
-Zev Tech V4 Race connector
http://www.glockworx.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=155934&CAT=3688
-Zev Tech Competition Spring Kit
http://www.glockworx.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=156033
Seems counter intuitive to mess with internals is you don't understand how each part works. The advantage of stock parts is that they flat out work together, they're readily available, and I don't have to hand fit or modify anything to get them to work together. Titanium ejector? Really?
The parts you're considering are more suited to competition. Not that that's a bad thing (though if you're looking for a comp gun, there are better options than a G23), but the priorities for a comp gun are different than a defense or duty gun.
All I can add to Skintop's list is a stash of G23 and G22 mags. The money you save by not blinging out your gun can make a good dent in the cost of his more sensible list.
Good advice so far. I'll add that you might want to skip the factory NS and get something else. Shoot a few Glocks with other sights at matches or wherever you find them and then decide. Also, seriously consider a 9mm instead of a 40. Ammo is cheaper and the terminal effects are about the same.
Okie John
Okay, I fully understand what most of you are saying. And for the most part, I'm on board, but I do have a few questions regarding your responses to my plans.
First, the Carver compensator with KKM barrel is a decision I've made because of experiences. To answer Tequila45, I have put close to two thousand rounds through this gun. So I'm quite familiar with the way it shoots as is. However, I also had occasion to shoot another Glock 23 at a range in San Antonio that had a Carver 3 port compensator (not sure as to the barrel) and the experience left a definite impression on me. The Glock 23 has a pretty significant upward tilt from recoil that is drastically improved by the Carver compensator. I loved shooting that gun and have ever since wanted to put a Carver 3 or 4 port compensator on my 23. I'm more then willing to listen to good reasoning why a compensator is a BAD idea, but it is one of the only upgrades on that list I've actually experienced and am planning on doing, again, as long as it's not a bad idea.
Towards that end, I would like to ask MSparks909, besides the holster comment (I'm using a blackhawk special operations drop leg holster which has enough room for the firearm and compensator, and by the way is the best drop leg holster to use in my opinion. Just a few inches of drop to clear my body armor. I hate that low on the leg crap.) why would you not go with a compensator specifically for a SHTF firearm? Thanks for cluing me in to the recoil springs. I hadn't thought of that before. It's on my list now. Especially considering how many rounds I've already put through the gun.
Skintop911, would night sights be "High visibility sights of some sort"? Cause if so, I already have trijicon forward and rear night sights. Also, are the 10-coil mag springs similar to the 10% extra power Wolff Magazine spring?
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/203726/wolff-magazine-spring-glock-19-21-23-26-27-29-30-32-33-high-capacity-10-pct-extra-power
Because those are on my list, but if the 10-coil are a better product, I'd love to take a look at them.
To answer some of the other concerns, I do have some issue reaching the slide release and magazine release, hence the reason I wanted to go with those. Also, that Glock 23 I shot in San Antonio had the Grip force Adapter which I also fell in love with at the time.
Now for the ZEV equipment. This is the stuff I've never seen, used or experienced, but found when searching for Glock modifications. Let me explain some of my reasoning so you can specifically shoot down that reasoning. (Which I'm totally cool with by the way, I don't mind being told I'm wrong.)
The ZEV Tech Titanium pin kit: I'm not too sure where these pins even go or what the OEM material is. (Hence me saying, I don't know much about the internals in my first post.) However, what I do know from materials Engineering, is that Titanium is a far better material than most. It's stronger, has better wear resistance and resistance to the elements than any other metal other than stainless steel which only has comparable resistance to the elements. Similarly, polymers and composites only have better resistance to the elements statistics as well. So, wherever the pins are, whatever there purpose and current material (which I doubt is titanium) I figured that upgrading those parts to Titanium isn't a bad idea for 20 bucks. Especially if that's a part that with a weaker material could break in a SHTF scenario where access to OEM parts isn't available anymore. If this reasoning is off, please let me know and I'll let this one go. I just wanted you guys to understand my full reasoning behind wanting that part before letting it go. Again, I really appreciate the time you guys are spending reading this post. I know I tend to be wordy.
Moving on. Regarding the titanium ejector. Same reasoning as above, plus another. I've read that some handguns with compensators have had problems ejecting rounds after they're fired. I've also seen people say that this titanium ejector fixes those issues.
The ZEV Tech Standard Trigger Kit. I was wanting to do this one because it significantly reduces the pretravel that the trigger has. Which the glock has substantial pretravel. If you guys think that's unnecessary I would love to hear some knowledgeable opinions on this. I obviously have no experience with this item. Also, this one I'm not even close to dead set on. It just sounded like a good idea.
The V4 Race connector and Competition spring kit were desired because supposedly they "smooth" out the trigger pull. Not having experienced this I was interested in trying them especially when the parts are less than 30 bucks. Again, not something I'm dead set on. And I have a feeling that this and the ZEV Tech trigger kit are probably not something I want on a SHTF gun. With the idea that Tequila45 was talking about, keeping it as close to stock for reliability.
Again, thank you so much for the input you guys have had. I'm already reconsidering the trigger stuff. Like you said Chameleox, why mess with stuff I don't fully understand? I appreciate any further input you guys have for me.
ADDICTED2TONE
08-03-14, 13:46
If its going to be carried it needs nothing more than a good set of sights. I carry a gen 3 23 daily. I am getting ready to switch to TFOS on it. I had Meprolights, they are nice but I wanna try the TFO sights. I don't buy into all that ghost connector crap. I can shoot my stock 23 as well as anything else I own.
The only extras I'd add for a carry gun besides sights are a decent rail mounted light to keep in your edc bag and some extra magazines. For a competition gun I can't help ya. I shoot at cans for fun.
So you want to install pins made of a stronger material, not knowing if the OEM pins are strong enough, or where the pins even go? Since you seem to be an educated guy, and a student of science, just let that sink in.
The pins are strong enough. Yes, I've seen one break. However, they don't seem to be breaking in such a frequent or catastrophic fashion that the many Glock users out there, some of whom are well heeled or shoot extensively on the government dine, are all rushing out to replace their pins.
Reading up on your ejector, it looks like it has to be fitted or tuned to your round. Combine this with already tuning for your compensator, and you're putting a lot of work into a gun that may now function with a specific load. If this is a SHTF gun, what happens when you run out or have to borrow or scrounge? Will your gun now not be 100% because you changed ammo? Yep. Some handguns do have ejection problems with compensators. Personally, I'd remove the comp. problem solved. Besides, the ejector is embedded into the Glock's trigger housing; that would be a pretty tough job.
Holsters. Not sure what your experience is, but you should do a search in the gear sub-forum ref. your holster brand of choice, and the carry method of choice, as it applies to your intended use.
Chameleox you make some very good points. Im definitely going to have to rethink my ideas. What about those 10 coil mag springs? Are they similar to the 10% extra power wolff mag springs?
Doublestack45
08-03-14, 15:44
My idea of a "SHTF" scenario is getting online tonight and not being able to order 25 extra glock 17 rd. magazines and quality ammunition to fill them.
OP- What's your experience with handguns? Any formal training or instruction?
What does "SHTF" mean to you, and how do you envision this gun playing a role?
I've been shooting with my dad since I was 6. No real formal training or instruction to speak of. I started practicing using the Fundamentals of Marksmanship which I discovered about a year ago in a book written by Albert H. League III called The Perfect Pistol Shot. It's improved my handgun and rifle shooting remarkably. My brother is ex-military and has talked about starting a training program with his ex-military buddies down here for those of us that could use it.
As for SHTF that can mean a variety of things. Mostly, I see it as any situation where the rule of law breaks down and anarchy/chaos begins to/totally takes over and I may have to use my firearms to defend my home and family. As I live in the Rio Grande Valley in South Tx right on the Mexican border where the cartels basically have caused that exact situation roughly 5-10 miles from my house, it's a very real concern. Doesn't take much government break down down here for their crap to spill over the border.
My Glock 23 would serve as the pistol portion of my kit. I also have an AK-47 that is my primary firearm.
Okay, that's helpful.
I recommend that you start off by taking advantage of several of the excellent training opportunities that are in your area/region. Then, make informed and experienced changes based on your development. If you buy anything right away, keep it to the narrow lists of small things that have already been suggested.
Your concerns about potential victimization and unrest aren't unwarranted, but this early in your process I'd skip the societal collapse stuff and work on CCW skills and gear. Develop that core first. It's what will benefit you most.
To your questions...
There's nothing wrong with the Wolff springs and I've used them. The 10-coil OEM accomplish the same thing, and offer a little extra feed insurance over the stock 9-coil. They are also easily sourced and keep the gun OEM.
By high visibility sights I mean the modern, high-profile designs like the Trij HD, various Ameriglos, Warrens, Heinies, Vickers, 10-8, and others.
Titanium isn't all-that, and inexpertly playing with trigger/ignition system components is rife with peril. You can google your way to hours of reading on issues that arise, esp with some of the mods you suggest.
If you think you'd like a comp to tame your G23 a bit, get a G19.
I ran G23s for years, and wore one out. Over that time I accumulated a box of "improvements" as I chased my tail. Truly, keep it simple, go to class, and practice often. It's a much better plan.
MSparks909
08-03-14, 19:08
I recommend that you start off by taking advantage of several of the excellent training opportunities that are in your area/region. Then, make informed and experienced changes based on your development. If you buy anything right away, keep it to the narrow lists of small things that have already been suggested.
Your concerns about potential victimization and unrest aren't unwarranted, but this early in your process I'd skip the societal collapse stuff and work on CCW skills and gear. Develop that core first. It's what will benefit you most.
If you think you'd like a comp to tame your G23 a bit, get a G19.
I ran G23s for years, and wore one out. Over that time I accumulated a box of "improvements" as I chased my tail. Truly, keep it simple, go to class, and practice often. It's a much better plan.
Edited other parts out but I would especially listen to this advice from Skintop. It took me several years to stop focusing on "hardware" fixes for my "software" issues. I'm working to narrowing down my striker fired guns to one specific model, selling the others, and focusing on improving my competency with that one platform.
I think most of the others have you covered on the shoot a lot before you start chasing the gear.
One thing I'll chime in on specifically is that for myself the OEM extended slide release on Glock pistols generally cause problems for my hands as I inadvertently push it into slide lock or keep it from engaging on an empty mag. I stick with the stock Glock one and don't have any issues. If you need more of a ledge I think the Vicker's slide stop lever is less of an offender than the OEM extended.
I would go 9mm & if you don't already have the gun yet then I would recommend going Gen4 at this point.
Sorry to take so long to respond. Been a bit busy at work, plus my brother and his wife had their new baby so life's been a bit hectic around here. I want to thank you all for the responses you gave me. Really turned around my thinking on this subject. As a student I don't really have the funds to do the kind of in depth, days long training that I've been reading about in the training forum, however, some of the ranges around here offer shorter classes that are definitely within my price range. I will look into those and keep up with my training.
MSparks909
08-15-14, 14:55
Sorry to take so long to respond. Been a bit busy at work, plus my brother and his wife had their new baby so life's been a bit hectic around here. I want to thank you all for the responses you gave me. Really turned around my thinking on this subject. As a student I don't really have the funds to do the kind of in depth, days long training that I've been reading about in the training forum, however, some of the ranges around here offer shorter classes that are definitely within my price range. I will look into those and keep up with my training.
I think that's a wise decision and one that will pay off in the long run.
As a student you should be able to realize the benefit of professional firearms training (education). Especially when you are talking about a piece of equipment that may save your life or the life of others. I took my first class in 1990 and have far outspent the cost of firearms on training / ammo / lodging etc.. It's fun to bling up a gun with cool gizmo's but at this point with limited budget you have a great gun that really needs little to nothing. Read some of the articles on Modern Service Weapons about customizing polymer pistols and also Hilton Yam's views on training.
I'll add one thing to the list, get a .40 to 9mm conversion barrel and a few mags. Now you have a G19 and a G23. If you want a hobby gun to start building up and tinkering with, move over to the 1911 world.
Good sights and a grip plug + plenty of mags are all you need gear wise.
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