View Full Version : MAGPUL B.A.D.
seasniper76
08-03-14, 09:40
Thinking about adding a MAGPUL Battery Assist Device to my rifle. Anybody that has one or has had one in the past wanna share so pros and cons or just your general opinion? Thanks.
Bigwilly77
08-03-14, 10:13
I have one installed for about 5 years and have had zero issues. It doesn't get in the way of the trigger now mind I haven't run with gloves on. Maybe somebody else can chime in on use with gloves. I have nothing negative to say as it was one of my first mods and haven't had any issues.
Dionysusigma
08-03-14, 10:23
Was just heavy enough that it caused issues with premature bolt locking for me (Mega, Noveske, and YHM lowers with G&R LPKs). Ended up giving it away, and the tiny torx screw stripped almost immediately for the next guy.
I don't miss it.
Achilles11B
08-03-14, 10:32
It really helps if you're a left-handed shooter. I've had one on mine for a few months now and it has given me no trouble after about 500 rounds or so.
The BAD lever can be one of those polarizing topics around here. Personally I like them. A lot of good/great shooters that don't. Some for good reason. Cant remember the member (jconsiglio?) had one break after dropping his rifle and made the rifle inoperable. I use RediMags so if the rifle is dropped on that side its very unlikely the BAD will get struck. Something to consider though.
Use the search engine button and go through some older threads. Plenty of info on them. I would say buy it, try it, make sure your rifle functions with it first and then give it some range time. Be aware some thicker upper receivers (e.g. Vltor MUR) will give you problems if you use the BAD on your lower. It wont allow the bolt catch/release to have full range of motion. The fix is to grind down some of the material off the lever on the back. Been using a MUR with a BAD for 4-5 years now and no problems after doing the mod.
You may also have problems with some of these fancy billet lowers that have differently (than mil spec) shaped trigger wells on the forward area. That's just conjecture though as I don't have billet lowers.
-Jax
ColtM4Carbine
08-03-14, 11:32
Have one installed on my Colt 6920, as a lefty shooter I really like having it. Zero issues while wearing gloves. You can probably find one in the EE for $15-$20 and test it out, if you don't like it you'll be able to get your money back when reselling it.
Edit: I was hesitant to buy one because as a lefty shooter I run a Norgan ambi catch and wasn't sure if I'd be able to get my pointer finger over the BAD lever and hit the magazine release. The BAD lever does make it a little tougher to hit the mag release but I'm still able to do it.
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee384/Mastodon12/IMG_6383_zpsfb1a69b0.jpeg (http://s1225.photobucket.com/user/Mastodon12/media/IMG_6383_zpsfb1a69b0.jpeg.html)
PatrioticDisorder
08-03-14, 12:37
If you want full ambi, a better solution would be to buy an AX555 lower or LWRC IC lower, IMO.
I have them on two of my ARs. So far they've both held up just fine, and while I may not have the biggest fingers out there I haven't yet hit it when I didn't intend to. I find myself sometimes missing them when I'm using an AR without one. Just don't forget to still practice using the ping pong paddle method so you still have that muscle memory if you find yourself running a firearm without a BAD lever on it.
I really like the bad levers and use them on all my rifles (with a redi-mag). I'm no speed demon, but my reloads are faster with this setup. I think the redi-mag (redimod or the newer aluminum model) and bad lever really make for an ideal patrol carbine setup. Grab and go and I've got 60 rounds with the rifle. I've gotten used to this setup but I assume that a surefire 60 round mag would also work in this situation.
The one problem I've noticed is the bolt catch will release prematurely if the rifle is bumped or handled roughly with the magpul bad levers. This is less of an issue using the Phase 5 flavor of the bad lever (see pic below).
https://phase5wsi.com/images/thumbnails/0/984/471/EBRV2_7048.jpg
HardToHandle
08-03-14, 13:12
It really helps if you're a left-handed shooter. I've had one on mine for a few months now and it has given me no trouble after about 500 rounds or so.
I have a BAD on a 9mm AR that does not lock back on an empty mag. When doing left handed drills I miss it on non BADequipped rifles, even as a right hander.
Been using one for... well years. However, I've found that the lever can be a bit of a hindrance in that if you get used to doing your reloads with it and then pick up a rifle without it then you can have a serious slow down while you try to find that lever that isn't there. That said, I do have it on my two go to carbines, though I use them more as an easy way to lock the bolt to the rear and a larger target to smack with my thumb during the reload than a speed reload to run with my trigger finger. Other than the aforementioned becoming dependent on the lever I've never personally had an issue with it.
From my experience I have found a few things. One, make sure you tighten the bolt down properly and if you are picking one up used put a drop of blue locktite on it. Second, make sure it is installed correctly. While I have never had an issue with this I have seen people with them jacked up on the install have them fall off at the range and also seen one loosen and hang up on a vest.
Freedoooom
08-03-14, 18:48
They are great and no better solution besides an ambi-lower.
Long Range Trigger Monkey
08-03-14, 19:04
I have them on both of my AR's and so far I haven't had any issues in regards to hindering functionality or snagging gear. Next to the BCM Gunfighter charging handle it's probably one of the best additions I've made in the past year. It isn't perfect though, I noticed that on both of my bolt release levers it was actually kind of loose but I fixed that by dropping some red Loctite in the small gap on the bottom. Once it dries it fills in the spaces around the pad and keeps it from moving around but doesn't lock it together so I can't take it apart if I need to.
Going back to a previous post I had wondered how well it would work with the Norgon Ambicatch and another option I have been considering to help make one of my guns more ambi is the Troy ambi mag release.
seasniper76
08-03-14, 20:24
Thanks for the info guys. New to the AR platform and have already made a few expensive mistakes so I'm a little gun shy (pardon the pun) about any new mods.
I really like the bad levers and use them on all my rifles (with a redi-mag). I'm no speed demon, but my reloads are faster with this setup. I think the redi-mag (redimod or the newer aluminum model) and bad lever really make for an ideal patrol carbine setup. Grab and go and I've got 60 rounds with the rifle. I've gotten used to this setup but I assume that a surefire 60 round mag would also work in this situation.
The one problem I've noticed is the bolt catch will release prematurely if the rifle is bumped or handled roughly with the magpul bad levers. This is less of an issue using the Phase 5 flavor of the bad lever
I had the exact issue on my SBR with a billet lower and a DD MK 18 upper. The billet thickness kept the Magpul lever from fully locking the bolt catch. A bump or almost any motion caused the bolt to close. Wouldn't lock back after the last round either.I installed the Phase 5 lever-problem solved.
ToeTagger6552
08-04-14, 10:15
I've been eyeing this one.....anyone have personal experience with it? http://www.tacticallink.com/Battery_Assist_Lever.html
I have Magpul BAD levers on all of my rifles, including one with 12,000 + rounds with the BAD lever, and i've never had a single issue. I've also used the Troy version, and it works great as well.
I agree though that there are some people that don't like them, or some guns that don't function well with them. For me they've been awesome, and definitely decrease my time when it comes to mag changes, malfunction clearance, and anything that requires you to lock or release the bolt. I would try one for 1,000 rounds or so and see if it works well with your gun and see if you like it.
My go-to carbine has a Redi-Mag and I have a BAD lever on it. I have used that setup for at least 5 years with no problem. With the Redi-Mag it makes perfect sense. My wife shoots lefty and she likes it for that reason.
Some people hate them, it is just lime everything out there, some love it and others hate it. It does not cost that much, try it out for yourself and decide.
I've been eyeing this one.....anyone have personal experience with it? http://www.tacticallink.com/Battery_Assist_Lever.html
I tried one for a while. My opinion is as follows.
Pro: longer than the Magpul BAD making it even easier to manipulate from the right side of the gun.
Con: noticeably heavier than the Magpul BAD and caused malfunctions preventing the bolt from locking to the rear on occasion. This was with a Vltor A5 system with A5 H2 buffer. Removed the lever and malfunctions ceased.
Note that at the time I tested this lever I was running a bolt catch, spring, and plunger of unknown pedigree that I sourced from a LGS. I've since replaced the bolt catch with a Seekins Precision which is incompatible with any of these levers. I've also replaced the spring and plunger with parts from Colt.
If you want to try it out PM me your address and I'll send it to you. It's FDE so I hope that's Ok.
ToeTagger6552
08-04-14, 11:28
I tried one for a while. My opinion is as follows.
Pro: longer than the Magpul BAD making it even easier to manipulate from the right side of the gun.
Con: noticeably heavier than the Magpul BAD and caused malfunctions preventing the bolt from locking to the rear on occasion. This was with a Vltor A5 system with A5 H2 buffer. Removed the lever and malfunctions ceased.
Note that at the time I tested this lever I was running a bolt catch, spring, and plunger of unknown pedigree that I sourced from a LGS. I've since replaced the bolt catch with a Seekins Precision which is incompatible with any of these levers. I've also replaced the spring and plunger with parts from Colt.
If you want to try it out PM me your address and I'll send it to you. It's FDE so I hope that's Ok.
Thanks SteveL!! I sent you a PM. I'll give it a run!!
Thanks SteveL!! I sent you a PM. I'll give it a run!!
Sure thing. I hope it works out for you.
OP just in case you're interested, Surf, who is one of the industry professionals on this board, posted some good stuff a while back about the BAD in this thread. Skip down to post #10.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?146074-Sionics-cerakote-Upper-Lower-set
The BAD Lever was originally designed to help clear type 3 malfunctions faster (as you would normally need to switch hands to lock the bolt to the rear). It SECONDARY function was to be able to drop the bolt with your trigger finger. With the invention of the anti-tilt followers and PMAGS, the number of "double feeds" dropped NOTICEABLY. So much so that I have not seen this malfunction in an AR (that is using these types of mags or followers) in a very long time. So Magpul effectively null and voided their own product IMHO.
I have installed these onto perfectly working AR's and they stopped being able to lock the bolt back on the last round. I have seen TONS of people screw up reloads (dropping the bolt before the mag is fully inserted) and all kinds of other odd malfunctions.
IMHO, as the BAD lever hangs on your bolt catch, the spring keeping it "down" becomes weaker and weaker. So if the BAD lever works in your gun, it might all of the sudden not keep working.
The question that people need to ask themselves, is how much faster am I with it than without. Pull out the trusty shot timer and see for yourself. My guess is that you will find there is little advantage to it.
YMMV.
C4
vicious_cb
08-05-14, 10:33
The BAD Lever was originally designed to help clear type 3 malfunctions faster (as you would normally need to switch hands to lock the bolt to the rear). It SECONDARY function was to be able to drop the bolt with your trigger finger. With the invention of the anti-tilt followers and PMAGS, the number of "double feeds" dropped NOTICEABLY. So much so that I have not seen this malfunction in an AR (that is using these types of mags or followers) in a very long time. So Magpul effectively null and voided their own product IMHO.
I have installed these onto perfectly working AR's and they stopped being able to lock the bolt back on the last round. I have seen TONS of people screw up reloads (dropping the bolt before the mag is fully inserted) and all kinds of other odd malfunctions.
IMHO, as the BAD lever hangs on your bolt catch, the spring keeping it "down" becomes weaker and weaker. So if the BAD lever works in your gun, it might all of the sudden not keep working.
The question that people need to ask themselves, is how much faster am I with it than without. Pull out the trusty shot timer and see for yourself. My guess is that you will find there is little advantage to it.
YMMV.
C4
Interesting, that begs the question if that spring is a wear item that should be replaced often with or without a BAD lever installed.
Interesting, that begs the question if that spring is a wear item that should be replaced often with or without a BAD lever installed.
I actually don't think it is a wear item (not listed as such in the Colt armorer manual we have). The extra weight sitting on the bolt catch adds up over time. If the BAD lever causes an issue with the bolt not lacking back right out of the gate, then the spring was probably spent since day one.
C4
When they first came out, I grabbed a couple to try. Mounted them on factory-built LMT lowers. With the BADs in place, both lowers stopped locking back on an empty mag. They were 100% before and went back to being 100% after I removed the BADs.
On top of that, the screws wouldn't stay tight. Snug it up, fire a mag, and it was back to being loose and flopping around. YMMV, but I didn't find them to be worth the hassle so I got rid of them.
I like the bad lever simply because it lets me keep my right or left hand on weapon grip all the time. But, I don't shoot at bad guys for a living.
Never had any issues with lick back yet. I'm sure wide receivers have problems with them.
I also have a B.A.D lever up on the EE but if you want to give it a go I will also send it to you so you can decide which you like better. For me it was a neat accessory. It is quick and easy to find under stress. My issue is the amount of AR's I shoot. I was afraid that if I kept it on that it would enable bad habits and I would rely on having one, in the case I did not have a rifle with one and musule memory may lead me to reach for it, that mistake could be costly. I am a new to average shooter so right now my habits and instilling correct ones are essential. The beginning of anything is when people do the majority of musule memory learning so I am trying to keep it the same around the board. I also took a class where the instructors recommended another student take theirs off for the same reason.
I am however not using a redimag. I am intrigued by them though
Grant you make a point about the bolt catch spring. This is another factor to add to my con list. It's a great piece of equip for some and even though the chances of something like that going south are rare they still happen. Is risk reward in that sense
elephantrider
08-05-14, 20:59
The question that people need to ask themselves, is how much faster am I with it than without. Pull out the trusty shot timer and see for yourself. My guess is that you will find there is little advantage to it.
YMMV.
C4
I would add to this question: How important is it that I/you be faster at these tasks? To me malfunction clearance, and reload times are far less important than weapon reliability, simplicity, and getting initial rounds on target quickly and accurately. In other words getting faster at these things is relatively low priority. Yes, the BAD lever can aid in left handed function, but it can also get in the way of left handed magazine releases. So think about your priorities and choose accordingly.
MajorLonghorn
08-11-14, 21:41
I got one because I'm a leftie, but it has caused problems in my POF, LMT, and Noveske. It's in a baggie somewhere now.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Only had mine for a short time so far but love it. Being left handed myself it has improved my reloads in competition significantly.
Only had mine for a short time so far but love it. Being left handed myself it has improved my reloads in competition significantly.
How does it help a lefty reload?
My little brother is a lefty and I teach him to strip the mag with the right hand, and drop the bolt with his left index finger.
MajorLonghorn
08-12-14, 17:14
How does it help a lefty reload?
My little brother is a lefty and I teach him to strip the mag with the right hand, and drop the bolt with his left index finger.
That's exactly how I do it. The only leftie modification I really need is an ambi safety selector.
I've been eyeing this one.....anyone have personal experience with it? http://www.tacticallink.com/Battery_Assist_Lever.html
I opted for the Tactical Link lever over the Magpul because it attaches with two screws rather than one and I felt this would be a little more stable. Yes it is a little heavier, but I've had no issues after about 400 rounds attached to a PSA lower. It's my favorite accessory and also the least expensive. Try either one and see. Not a lot to lose if you don't like it.
you can use it as a bolt release that can be actuated with your thumb on your right hand. I have one rifle with a Raptor, BAD lever, Troy ambi mag release, and badass safety and I'm faster with it than with my right hand (I'm right handed but severely left eye dominant). I don't have any other rifles set up like this though, I usually just use my index finger for the bolt catch, or use my SR15
I wish I knew someone local that had one. As a lefty I rock a Troy ambi mag release, a BADASS ambi selector, and I feel like I'm more than good to go if not faster than righties since I can hit the bolt release with my index finger.
I have a BAD lever on one of my rifles with a couple thousand rounds through it. Worked perfect with no malfunctions. It's an inexpensive add-on and not much of a loss if you end up not liking it.
I've got two, one on each of my KAC lowers, and haven't had any problems with either. Caveat is that I don't shoot people for a living, however I do run my guns hard. It seems to be one of those things where either it works or it doesn't. If it doesn't, you take it off and are no worse off than before, if it does, you've added some capability to your weapons handling. I typically use it for administrative tasks, and it works well in that regard. I generally split 50/50 as far as using it for reloads goes.
Apricotshot
08-13-14, 07:05
I've been using a BAD on my Spike's SBRed lower since 2007ish. I have had no problems with function of the rifle. I have also timed myself and I'm a little faster on a speed reload than without it on a almost identical setup. On the other hand all my other rifles do not have a BAD.
Here's my experience with the BAD. I got one when they first came out and mounted it on my lower (Noveske gen 1 with Colt LPK). I really liked the efficiency of locking the bolt open, and the speed of dropping the bolt. Everything ran fine for a couple years and thousands of rounds. Then I started hearing about the issues people were having with failure to lock back. I decided that I would just keep the wrench for it in my kit, and if anything went wrong I could just remove it.
It decided to go tits up during a carbine class with Jack Leuba. It was ridiculously cold, and folks were getting all kinds of malfunctions and breakages. Some of my old PMAGS were giving me double feeds, so I retired them and moved on. Then the failure to lock backs started in earnest, so I decided to remove the BAD. I warmed up the rifle in my truck, then took the wrench and very carefully started to remove the screw. The head of the wrench stripped. It was double ended (as supplied by Magpul) so I carefully set up to try again, knowing that this was my only wrench end left. This time the head of the screw stripped. It was now impossible to remove the BAD from the rifle. If I'd had a hacksaw with me, I would have cut it off. This screwed me for the rest of the class, luckily we were on the last day and it was late afternoon.
So, as Grant said, the BAD may decide to interfere with the reliability of the rifle at an unknown time. And for the folks saying "If it screws up I'll just remove it", that may not work out so well. I had to get the rifle on my bench and use an EZ-out to remove it. I replaced the bolt catch, plunger, and spring with Colt parts and no trouble since.
So I really did like the benefits of the BAD, but for me it's not worth the risk of it deciding to quit on you at an inopportune time. Add to that the inability to remove it in the field, and in my opinion it's not worth the risk.
The BAD Lever was originally designed to help clear type 3 malfunctions faster (as you would normally need to switch hands to lock the bolt to the rear). It SECONDARY function was to be able to drop the bolt with your trigger finger. With the invention of the anti-tilt followers and PMAGS, the number of "double feeds" dropped NOTICEABLY. So much so that I have not seen this malfunction in an AR (that is using these types of mags or followers) in a very long time. So Magpul effectively null and voided their own product IMHO.
I have installed these onto perfectly working AR's and they stopped being able to lock the bolt back on the last round. I have seen TONS of people screw up reloads (dropping the bolt before the mag is fully inserted) and all kinds of other odd malfunctions.
IMHO, as the BAD lever hangs on your bolt catch, the spring keeping it "down" becomes weaker and weaker. So if the BAD lever works in your gun, it might all of the sudden not keep working.
The question that people need to ask themselves, is how much faster am I with it than without. Pull out the trusty shot timer and see for yourself. My guess is that you will find there is little advantage to it.
YMMV.
C4
Pretty much sums it up. I was so used to a standard configuration that it actually hindered my ability to manipulate the rifle controls. I found myself releasing the bolt before I was able to reload a fresh magazine.
This is an interesting discussion. I'm relatively new to the AR platform and it just seems so much more natural to me to drop the bolt using my trigger finger rather than smack the left side of the gun two or three times with my palm. I'll definitely be a lot more cognizant of an impending failure with it though after reading all of this.
I have a couple of these BAD levers from Magpul. I never experienced a problem yet.
I plan on purchasing another for my son's 15/22. From what I read it does not fit well without some Dremel work on the lower. I plan on modifying the cheaper part (BAD Lever) via heat from the oxy/acetylene torch and bend it whatever way.
It's sort of helpful on a precision ar shot from the prone as you can reload without breaking your position nearly as much. But I don't think it's worth the potential headaches.
Apricotshot
08-14-14, 06:58
This is an interesting discussion. I'm relatively new to the AR platform and it just seems so much more natural to me to drop the bolt using my trigger finger rather than smack the left side of the gun two or three times with my palm. I'll definitely be a lot more cognizant of an impending failure with it though after reading all of this.
I'm pretty sure if a BAD type lever was incorporated at inception in the AR platform there would be no problem as it would have been apart of the manual of arms from the beginning.
This is an interesting discussion. I'm relatively new to the AR platform and it just seems so much more natural to me to drop the bolt using my trigger finger rather than smack the left side of the gun two or three times with my palm. I'll definitely be a lot more cognizant of an impending failure with it though after reading all of this.
Please seek professional training as this is not how you release the bolt catch.
C4
Please seek professional training as this is not how you release the bolt catch.
C4
Actually I was being facetious. Long story...... I did attempt that procedure a few times at the beginning and quickly found it unreliable and slow. I started using my thumb to depress the release paddle after inserting a new mag. Due to severe arthritis in my fingers and thumbs, that didn't work as well for me as the BAD lever does.
I've used BAD levers on all my AR's without a single issue. For me, it really does speed up reloads and dealing with malfunctions.
I have seen one AR have issues locking the bolt to the rear with a BAD lever installed while using magpul 20 round magazines. It would work fine with any 30 round mag, or by removing the BAD lever.
Now, I can see how there could be issues when one has to use their duty weapon and may not be authorized to install a BAD lever and continually trains with one on a personal weapon. I've found myself searching for the lever during qualification with my issue weapon. However, I don't see it as a deal breaker as these days I only see that rifle maybe twice a year. If I was using the duty weapon day in, day out, my opinion would probably change.
Personnaly, I like them and see them as a benefit.
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