View Full Version : Handl SCAR 17 stock adapter
DiabhailGadhar
08-06-14, 19:47
So a good friend of mine just sent me a link for the Handl stock adapter and I just want to get input from those of you with high round counts or full auto experience with the SCAR platform. Is this something justifiable or is it more of a solution looking for a problem with an elitist price tag?? I'm leaning toward the ladder.....thanks in advance.
I did a brief search on here and didn't come up with anything if this has been covered I apologize.
http://handldefense.com/product/scar-stock-hinge/
S/F,
Nick
Two issues. It's $180-$200, and they claim it improves accuracy...of course.
albatrossarmament
08-07-14, 11:37
After 3 years, countless courses and training days...I have had no issues with the factory stock assy on my SCAR 16.
Having seen broken latch interfaces and hinge areas, I would welcome any metal replacement. I would rather have the Vltor stock adapter though. SCAR stock is opposite of awesome, if the mechanism was smooth and durable like HK or SAN it might make me feel differently. As it is, I would swap mine for the Vltor if I owned one.
Maybe Fox33 / klrb929 can provide some more information. He's around here sometimes and works with / for / advises Handl.
DiabhailGadhar
08-07-14, 20:06
Having seen broken latch interfaces and hinge areas, I would welcome any metal replacement. I would rather have the Vltor stock adapter though. SCAR stock is opposite of awesome, if the mechanism was smooth and durable like HK or SAN it might make me feel differently. As it is, I would swap mine for the Vltor if I owned one.
Does vltor offer just the latch itself or do you have to buy the whole stock adapter..
Does vltor offer just the latch itself or do you have to buy the whole stock adapter..
The VLTOR adapter does not fold, no latch is required.
Here is another adaptor to put AR stocks on the SCAR.
http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-scar-17s/57027-ditch-boot-spring-here-sneak-peek-fresh-off-machine.html
$200 is too much for something that is likely not a problem. If it were $100, maybe, and only for the 17s not the 16.
And I would not be interested in eliminating the folding stock mechanism. Even though I live in CA the change is easily reversed.
$200 is too much for something that is likely not a problem. If it were $100, maybe, and only for the 17s not the 16.
And I would not be interested in eliminating the folding stock mechanism. Even though I live in CA the change is easily reversed.
Except it is a problem. The SCAR folding stock mechanism is a weak link in the system. The whole stock is bad. It is made of cheap plastic. The hinge and latch break as does the plate that attaches to the receiver. The LOP adjustment button is terrible in dusty conditions.
The MK17 has a lot going for it. It does a somethings that the M4 does not, chiefly, it shoots .308s really accurately. If I ever carried one again it would certainly get the metal Vltor adapter.
#1 as for the Vltor adaptor, I've seen them OCOUNS, I wish I had one in say 2010. Not a bad way to go IMO, but I like a folding stock. A 13 inch Mk.17 with the stock folded fits very nicely inside the frame of an ALICE pack. Since I hate jumping 1950's win-win.
#2 the Handl Base plate was designed actually to help with the recoil first and the weak hinge structure second. The metal structure does not absorb the recoil forces in what Handl calls an "elastic impact". Handl did this test where they shot 5000 rounds though one gun in one sitting and when something broke they noted it, replaced it, and drove on. The polymer base plate actually ended up failing under the strain of FA. I talked to my senior 18B two weeks ago and he said he saw similar events at the 18B committee. Handl says the buffer assembly works better when used with the metal base plate. Recoil impulses are funky on this gun, but it becomes a real cunt in full auto.
#3 According to the guys a Handl Defense the SCAR H hinge breaks at 55 lbs of pressure (+/- 5lbs) the Handl Defense hinge breaks at 125lbs. They say want 240lbs, but that might not be a bolt on solution. The new hinge plate makes the buttstock much tighter with a more solid lock up.
I'll wait and see. These guys didn't exactly light the world on fire with the intro of their SCAR lower receiver. Frankly, I'll let someone else be the test pilot.
I think more than anything else Handl chose the wrong website to launch that product on.
Considering it's "owned" by a person that stole/took a shitton of money from the owner of DSA, has a history of shady business practices (a very serious accusation/investigation of wire fraud), slandering competition, bankruptcy, investigations by LE (to include the FBI's IPRC), and probably going to get the SEAL in team 3 hes been giving gifts to fried.
Not to mention they have released PERSEC of 18 series personnel on that website.
In light of that, Handl probably should have picked a much more ethical place to launch their product.
I have yet to see photographic or video evidence of any of these "issues". Not saying people didn't have them, they were not common (20-30 of the very first batch..none I know of since), and the one's I know of, Alan Handl replaced free of charge.
This is not meant as an attack on you Scottsbad, but the source of your information may appear credible, but it is not in the slightest.
I think it would be an improvement, couldnt hurt anything except the wallet.
Price tag is way high compared to a complete FN Scar stock at around $200
Leaning towards just having a whole spare stock and keep an eye on the condition of the original as more rounds are shot
Tzintzuntzan
09-17-14, 14:50
The LOP adjustment button is terrible in dusty conditions.
I've actually seen it fail inside of a gun store, in the sense that it got stuck and had to be wiggled until it came back out again. That incident had always made me a bit wary about SCARs.
So since you have seen them break what kind of round count?
Are you talking average usage or being really used and abused
in military use?
So since you have seen them break what kind of round count?
Are you talking average usage or being really used and abused
in military use?
When you touch it the weapon bursts into 3248 pieces.
After 1k rounds I have kept watch on the area displayed with damage indicated on the Handl websight
Dont see any signs of the damage or wear even beginning to show
But I do agree metal would be a better idea in the first place
Understand that a lot of the testing that Handl Defense did was in excess of the CAR-H spec sheet. For example if I was asked what the optimal (preferred but not necessary) or a threshold for acceptance (something it must do) for a specified task or capability, I always added a percentage then told them this was the standard.
For example: if the item has to withstand a static load of X lbs for X seconds I told them to make it X + 10% in lbs and X + 10% in time. This insured that there was going to be no problem showing how the items were better than OEM, and during the R&D it would show weaknesses that might not be readily apparent.
This is directly applicable to the Stock Hinge. As I said OEM will break loose at 55-65 lbs of pressure. The Handl is about 125lbs of pressure before it breaks, but it is not optimal yet, the goal is about 250 lbs (not 240 as I said before). There is a reason for the excessive weight requirement (sorry but I am not going to tell). The 250 lb mark will require one or two more parts.
But the strengthening of the folding stock was a secondary objective. The primary objective is to make the gun work better. The Handl Defense trigger module is the only one that is a stressed member. This has caused headaches for those who did not follow the installation instructions, but a critical requirement for improving the system as a whole. The relationship between parts is different, tighter, more cohesive as a system. The Handl Defense Stock hinge is a critical element in this.
The FN SCAR is not unlike a CH-53, at lot of separate parts working together in close formation. This is not a dig against it, the SCAR is much like an AK with a stamped receiver. A SCAR with all the Handl parts is like an AK with a milled receiver. Everything works together better and feels much more solid. Now are you going to need all of this? If you SCAR sees range time and the occasional 3 gun match? maybe. If you are going flog the shit out of your SCAR and beat it like Ray Rice's wife? yea I think you need it.
BTW the pic on the website is of the stock hinge just before failure the day of the 5000 round test.
Any idea when the 250 lb mark will be reached?
What headaches are guys having with install?
The 250lb mark is gouging to require the replacement of one of the OEM buttstock parts and the addition of another part to the entire assembly.
When it comes to installation issues guys are not looking at the installation videos. There is a step or two that are different than just slapping the OEM trigger module on. It is painfully obvious just from pictures from a few views that installation procedures were not followed. A massive well known manufacture sent back two lowers they had tried to put on to their SCARs. One was beaten to ****, because they had tired to install it without specifically following the instructions. It was scanned to check for variances. None were found so it was assembled exactly to the instructions and had 100 rounds ran through it without a single hiccup. The other is still on a personal gun and is a solid 1500 rounds without issue.
CS issues are not common from what I understand, but it is obvious when the customer did not use a rubber mallet for initial seating of a Handl trigger module. This usually noted by the Trigger module not being completely and fully seated and flush with the backplate of the receiver. Certain parts have to be mated to work the way they are intended.
The 250lb mark is gouging to require the replacement of one of the OEM buttstock parts and the addition of another part to the entire assembly.
When it comes to installation issues guys are not looking at the installation videos. There is a step or two that are different than just slapping the OEM trigger module on. It is painfully obvious just from pictures from a few views that installation procedures were not followed. A massive well known manufacture sent back two lowers they had tried to put on to their SCARs. One was beaten to ****, because they had tired to install it without specifically following the instructions. It was scanned to check for variances. None were found so it was assembled exactly to the instructions and had 100 rounds ran through it without a single hiccup. The other is still on a personal gun and is a solid 1500 rounds without issue.
CS issues are not common from what I understand, but it is obvious when the customer did not use a rubber mallet for initial seating of a Handl trigger module. This usually noted by the Trigger module not being completely and fully seated and flush with the backplate of the receiver. Certain parts have to be mated to work the way they are intended.
[QUOTE=Fox33;1991822]The 250lb mark is gouging to require the replacement of one of the OEM buttstock parts and the addition of another part to the entire assembly.
When it comes to installation issues guys are not looking at the installation videos. There is a step or two that are different than just slapping the OEM trigger module on. It is painfully obvious just from pictures from a few views that installation procedures were not followed. A massive well known manufacture sent back two lowers they had tried to put on to their SCARs. One was beaten to ****, because they had tired to install it without specifically following the instructions. It was scanned to check for variances. None were found so it was assembled exactly to the instructions and had 100 rounds ran through it without a single hiccup. The other is still on a personal gun and is a solid 1500 rounds without issue.
CS issues are not common from what I understand, but it is obvious when the customer did not use a rubber mallet for initial seating of a Handl trigger module. This usually noted by the Trigger module not being completely and fully seated and flush with the backplate of the receiver. Certain parts have to be mated to work the way they are intended.
Well I dont know about beating it like Ray Rice's wife lol
but my Scar will get the crap shot out of it
one because I love shooting and two I have my own range right out back.
My Scar's soul purpose is wild boar hunting and hopefully other dangerous game
eventually, I do not need hiccups or malfuntions
Thanks for all the good info
It would be nice if they made an entire stronger stock assembly as a whole.
Just slip a whole new bad boy on, I wouldn't want to sacrifice the folding stock on Scar
I wouldnt buy an upgrade just to use another kind of mag but if it improves the weapon system as a whole that's a different story.
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